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Alaundo
Head Moderator
Admin

United Kingdom
5596 Posts

Posted - 16 Nov 2004 :  10:49:42  Show Profile  Visit Alaundo's Homepage  Click to see Alaundo's MSN Messenger address Send Alaundo a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
Well met

With the, albeit distant, upcoming release of the new Waterdeep tome, please pen any questions to the author, Eric L Boyd, within this scroll.

Welcome Eric For my first question, could you please tell us the format of the 'tour' of the city? I assume that there will be individual chapters for each city ward? Will maps be included as part of the chapter, or will a poster map be produced for the product?


Alaundo
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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer

USA
1253 Posts

Posted - 16 Nov 2004 :  14:06:05  Show Profile  Visit ericlboyd's Homepage Send ericlboyd a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Make no assumptions. :-)

I can say a couple of things:

a) Be realistic about what can fit in a book. Even a rehash of every published bit of lore about Waterdeep with no updating wouldn't fit in a book 3 times this size.
b) I recognize that lots of people have the old material.
c) I recognize that lots of people DON'T have the old material.

I endeavored to give a complete, standalone product that will please old and new gamers alike and be useful in your campaigns. Plus, I like playing with old, neglected toys in new and interesting ways. ;-)

Other than that, it's far too early for me to talk about this book. Enjoy the upcoming Lost Empires of Faerun first. :-)

--Eric


--
http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
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USA
31231 Posts

Posted - 16 Nov 2004 :  15:54:15  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm curious as to how detailed the Lords will be, and whether or not we'll see any new ones.

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SiriusBlack
Great Reader

USA
5517 Posts

Posted - 16 Nov 2004 :  20:10:21  Show Profile  Visit SiriusBlack's Homepage Send SiriusBlack a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd
I can say a couple of things:



Otherwise the NDA gods would strike you down, correct?

quote:

I endeavored to give a complete, standalone product that will please old and new gamers alike and be useful in your campaigns.



Well, here's a general question that I think you should be able to answer now as it is not specific. What you just described above seems to be a balance. How was it walking the fine line of that balance to make the product appeal to old and new gamers alike?

Additionally, did you have any discussions with the two authors of the upcoming Waterdeep novel about their product so you were aware of what they were planning to do?

Thanks for any answers you can provide. And if you can't answer, I'll understand although Faerun's Gods will still strike you down.

SB
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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer

USA
1253 Posts

Posted - 16 Nov 2004 :  20:22:33  Show Profile  Visit ericlboyd's Homepage Send ericlboyd a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack

[Well, here's a general question that I think you should be able to answer now as it is not specific. What you just described above seems to be a balance. How was it walking the fine line of that balance to make the product appeal to old and new gamers alike?


Challenging, but fun. :-)

quote:
Additionally, did you have any discussions with the two authors of the upcoming Waterdeep novel about their product so you were aware of what they were planning to do?


Yes. :-)

--Eric

--
http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader

USA
5517 Posts

Posted - 16 Nov 2004 :  20:26:46  Show Profile  Visit SiriusBlack's Homepage Send SiriusBlack a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd
Challenging, but fun. :-)



Thank you for that prompt and diplomatic answer. Why didn't a certain Commander in Chief look to you for Secretary of State?

quote:

quote:
Additionally, did you have any discussions with the two authors of the upcoming Waterdeep novel about their product so you were aware of what they were planning to do?


Yes. :-)



There you have it folks. EB not only knows the details of the Waterdeep sourcebook, but the novel as well. And he's smiling right now as he looks at the computer screen with the knowledge that we do not. I can tell...I can tell....

SB
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Mystery_Man
Senior Scribe

USA
455 Posts

Posted - 07 Dec 2004 :  14:11:33  Show Profile  Visit Mystery_Man's Homepage Send Mystery_Man a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Eric.

Why the hell wasn't the Waterdeep sourcebook prioritized to be published before Sharn!?!

Seriously with the City of Splendors and Volo's Guide to Waterdeep how much is left to detail without rehashing old material? Will we see a new map?
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Faraer
Great Reader

3308 Posts

Posted - 07 Dec 2004 :  15:53:42  Show Profile  Visit Faraer's Homepage Send Faraer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
How much is left to detail? At a guess, Waterdeep has three 160-page sourcebooks' worth of published lore, at least that number of existing but unpublished lore, and could easily support six books' worth of new lore. We know little about most of the buildings, the temples, the past Lords, the workings of the guilds, local speech and traditions, etc. etc.

The new City of Splendors, the third book announced of that name, will have to cover existing ground, timeline updates, new rules stuff, *and* actual new content. Some job fitting that in 160 pages, and as I said elsewhere, few other than Eric could do it.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
31231 Posts

Posted - 07 Dec 2004 :  17:34:51  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Elf_Friend

Seriously with the City of Splendors and Volo's Guide to Waterdeep how much is left to detail without rehashing old material?



I dare you to ask Ed Greenwood that question.

Additionally, there was a module (Waterdeep), something like a module (Knight of the Living Dead), the old FR1 Waterdeep and the North, a boxed set that partially covered it (City System, I believe), some novels... I'm sure I've forgotten some of the many things that covered Waterdeep.

Oh, and Steven Schend's Realms By Night articles were pure Waterdhavian lore -- not a bit of crunch to be found!

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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 07 Dec 2004 17:39:22
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Elmonster
Seeker

Russia
49 Posts

Posted - 10 Dec 2004 :  20:43:23  Show Profile  Visit Elmonster's Homepage Send Elmonster a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Will this new Waterdeep sourcebook have information on Xanathar's Guild, Knights of the Shield and other corrupt, illegal and anti-Lords organizations? What about Watedeep Economy?


I wished on the seven sisters
Bring me the wisdom of the age
All that's locked within the book of secrets
I longed for the knowledge of the sage...

Fires at Midnight, Blackmore's Night
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Kentinal
Great Reader

4348 Posts

Posted - 10 Dec 2004 :  21:40:45  Show Profile Send Kentinal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Elmonster

What about Watedeep Economy?





D&D rules do not support any economy, the best you can do is take a hammer, house rule, or use magic for any realm to have a ciable economy.

Unskilled labor does not earn enough to live, skilled labor costs too much to employ. Farmers make farm too much if skilled and doe if unskilled.

The price lisit is badly flawed, even if there was not the wage scale set. A mule should cost more for example. There is only one way to have Waterdeep or any other city work, say it works.

"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon
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Elmonster
Seeker

Russia
49 Posts

Posted - 11 Dec 2004 :  18:46:49  Show Profile  Visit Elmonster's Homepage Send Elmonster a Private Message  Reply with Quote
That's exactly what i'am trying to say. No D&D sourcebook lacks magic items and prestige classes but what about more useful information for players and dm's? Economy, local politics, current situation, crime\illigal business - will these aspects be uncovered in Waterdeep sourcebook?

I wished on the seven sisters
Bring me the wisdom of the age
All that's locked within the book of secrets
I longed for the knowledge of the sage...

Fires at Midnight, Blackmore's Night
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Kentinal
Great Reader

4348 Posts

Posted - 11 Dec 2004 :  19:36:50  Show Profile Send Kentinal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Many do not find the Economy interesting, also rather difficult to do. Realm Building certainly does interest some games, that it be somewhat believable, what leather was used and how much does it cost the farmer to raise a chicken, etc, the list is endless. It as best as I can tell this aspect is of interest to a very low percentage of gamers, I estimate less then 2 percent.

As for "local politics, current situation, crime\illigal business" I would expect and hope that major NPCs and groups would be discussed in some detail after all that is often something included in many source books. The degree of detail of course varies. I suspect little would be discussed about how much a crime takes its toll on the Economy for some of the reasons I already posted.

I have tried to put together a few models for a gaming world economy however can not do so using core rules price schedual. Basic premise that grain has the same price on the farm as after being transported 100 miles to a city is one of the clear problems that exist. There have been over the years certain types of goods do have different prices in regions but even those models (that I have seen) do poorly (or not at all) with cost of transport.

If I could come up with a sellable product of how fantasy econemies can work with the core price list I would already be getting rejection slips. Of course changing the price lists, wages, cost of transport to be adaptible to D&D is slightly easier, but less marketable.

"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon
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Mumadar Ibn Huzal
Master of Realmslore

1338 Posts

Posted - 11 Dec 2004 :  20:01:33  Show Profile Send Mumadar Ibn Huzal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
IMO the level of detail that one needs to create - for the players - a believable economic environment, and provide possible adventuring scenarios is to know for the regions (as detailed in PGtF) what the major import and export items are. The map presented in FRCS is helpfull, but a listing would be more useful.

Creating a model more detailed than this level of import/export is bound to fail since one cannot properly estimate/calculate the effects of magic, monsters, etc on the economy. Earth based models would fail since those variables do not exist.

Edited by - Mumadar Ibn Huzal on 11 Dec 2004 20:03:06
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Mumadar Ibn Huzal
Master of Realmslore

1338 Posts

Posted - 11 Dec 2004 :  20:07:03  Show Profile Send Mumadar Ibn Huzal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Eric,

1) Perhaps already stepping over the bounds of the NDA, but what will be the actual year (DR) for the book?

2) Will recent events (as in Threat from the Seas), the rogue dragons, etc be included? (guess some of this depends on the answer on question 1...)
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
31231 Posts

Posted - 11 Dec 2004 :  20:28:04  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Elmonster

Economy, local politics, current situation, crime\illigal business - will these aspects be uncovered in Waterdeep sourcebook?



Past books have covered all of these, except for the first one...

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Kentinal
Great Reader

4348 Posts

Posted - 11 Dec 2004 :  20:40:39  Show Profile Send Kentinal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Mumadar Ibn Huzal

IMO the level of detail that one needs to create - for the players - a believable economic environment, and provide possible adventuring scenarios is to know for the regions (as detailed in PGtF) what the major import and export items are. The map presented in FRCS is helpfull, but a listing would be more useful.

Creating a model more detailed than this level of import/export is bound to fail since one cannot properly estimate/calculate the effects of magic, monsters, etc on the economy. Earth based models would fail since those variables do not exist.



A listing would be an added and certainly more sellable then Fantasy Economy in greater detail.

I though disagree that monsters, goblin and orcs, etc. raiding the out laying farms can be calculated with in ranges. BD&D in effect offered some ideas on realm income based on how well one ruled of course not on the individual level. Rule poorly and your subjects even revolt against you.

The effects of magic certainly can be calculated as well within a certain range. Increase of crop yields by a Druid (though why one would want to) is a described spell effect available to them, there is also a base price of how much one should pay for such a spell. Transport of goods also can be handled the use of teleport, portals, magically enchanted transport (wagons that can carry more then normal or move faster then normal) also can be priced.

Things like crop yields could be imported from real life or could be set by Fantasy rule. Crops can be diease resistant, all chickens dress out as 3 pounds and turkeys (if they exist) at 15 and so on. One could also add varibles based on trade if only Silverymoon has turkeys they are less expensive there then any place else.
The time to cure a hide for leather does not need to refect reality either, nor the food required to be eaten (which the rules clearly underfeed large animals).

It is not that it can not be done, all varibles can be calculated for, magical food including stone to flesh for example, rather that such detail is generally not desired and for a whole world would tend to run up the page count. It (if ever written) certainly would have to allow for many varibles that effect the characters living on the world. Does the strong patrol of one Barony cause the goblins to strave to death or move, do the orcs sack the castle of another killing most of the farmers but take away food and weapons? These things can be calculated if base rules are set, a accurate estimate of entire population is incorporated. The biggest problem with this approch most likely is bookkeeping , the second most likely the dice rolls for random events.

Various fans have tried to do segments of economy, mining for example. The last model I looked at did not cosider magic, however magic certainly could be added.

It is not that it can not be done, it is just it is not important enough to enough to justify it being done. If the PCs are told that the meal that normally cosys 1 spnoe costs 5 gp it tends to be the PCs more concerned about the reason for high food price, not concerned about paying for the meal (most likely adding a tip if carring average wealth). High prices in most games are an adventure hook, the Red Dragon is burning the Western field because <insert reason> so local food supplies are low. Mayhaps you can solve the problem for us, we will be eternally greatful to you type thing.


"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon
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Elmonster
Seeker

Russia
49 Posts

Posted - 11 Dec 2004 :  20:42:38  Show Profile  Visit Elmonster's Homepage Send Elmonster a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:

Past books have covered all of these, except for the first one...


Yes the have, but the were 2e AD&D. What about changes brought by 3.5. Any significant changes in City of Splendors or everything as it was before?

I wished on the seven sisters
Bring me the wisdom of the age
All that's locked within the book of secrets
I longed for the knowledge of the sage...

Fires at Midnight, Blackmore's Night
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader

USA
5517 Posts

Posted - 12 Dec 2004 :  04:40:02  Show Profile  Visit SiriusBlack's Homepage Send SiriusBlack a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Mumadar Ibn Huzal

Eric,

1) Perhaps already stepping over the bounds of the NDA, but what will be the actual year (DR) for the book?



Good question. Considering he's consulted with the authors of the novel tie-in, I think that will depend on when the novel is set.

quote:

2) Will recent events (as in Threat from the Seas), the rogue dragons, etc be included? (guess some of this depends on the answer on question 1...)



I don't see how the former cannot be addressed. As for the latter, I'm getting the impression more and more that the Year of Rogue Dragons will not affect some areas of Faerun as strongly as others.
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Mystery_Man
Senior Scribe

USA
455 Posts

Posted - 29 Jan 2005 :  15:12:52  Show Profile  Visit Mystery_Man's Homepage Send Mystery_Man a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Wow!!!

Nice cover!!


http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=products/fracc/881620000

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SiriusBlack
Great Reader

USA
5517 Posts

Posted - 29 Jan 2005 :  16:34:12  Show Profile  Visit SiriusBlack's Homepage Send SiriusBlack a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Elf_Friend

Wow!!!

Nice cover!!


http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=products/fracc/881620000



There's a thread somewhere in the forum where others expressed their delight at the cover. Does anyone know the name of the artist?
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
31231 Posts

Posted - 29 Jan 2005 :  22:02:24  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack

quote:
Originally posted by Elf_Friend

Wow!!!

Nice cover!!


http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=products/fracc/881620000



There's a thread somewhere in the forum where others expressed their delight at the cover. Does anyone know the name of the artist?



I'm sure the artist's parents know his or her name, as well as the artist themself and the friends and associates of the artist.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Kentinal
Great Reader

4348 Posts

Posted - 29 Jan 2005 :  22:37:49  Show Profile Send Kentinal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack

Does anyone know the name of the artist?



Well tried to search up an answer , however failed to get a hit. It might be posible was art in house that they finaly decided to use or was a new comission. Until we can find credits, we need to wait to discover the Identity.
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31691 Posts

Posted - 30 Jan 2005 :  03:51:34  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

I'm sure the artist's parents know his or her name, as well as the artist themself and the friends and associates of the artist.

Oh... There's always one in every group .

As for the artist's name, I've put the request out on every board I know that deals with the Realms in some regard. Something is bound to come up eventually, or, we'll learn that particular tidbit here in the future.

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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
31231 Posts

Posted - 30 Jan 2005 :  06:23:00  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

I'm sure the artist's parents know his or her name, as well as the artist themself and the friends and associates of the artist.

Oh... There's always one in every group .

As for the artist's name, I've put the request out on every board I know that deals with the Realms in some regard. Something is bound to come up eventually, or, we'll learn that particular tidbit here in the future.




Indeed, the info will eventually turn up... Within about 24 hours after the book comes out!

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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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warlockco
Master of Realmslore

USA
1695 Posts

Posted - 30 Jan 2005 :  08:00:12  Show Profile  Visit warlockco's Homepage Send warlockco a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Elf_Friend

Wow!!!

Nice cover!!


http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=products/fracc/881620000






Aye, that is a nice cover.

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