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Shayan
Acolyte
Australia
25 Posts |
 Posted - 28 Oct 2004 : 16:08:11
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I just had to clear this up..
is the new goddess of magic, after ToT called Mystra or Midnight?
When Mystryl dies for Karsus's mistake, the new goddess is called Mystra, but now when Midnight replaces Mystra, she still seems to be referred to as Mystra, Goddess of Magic Why?
The epilogue of Waterdeep (The Avatar Trilogy) does not seem to make it clear as to what the new Goddess is called....
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Someone please tell me where to buy FR books in Australia!! Pretty Please... 
Shayan's Subrace Engine - for NWNhttp://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Scripts.Detail&id=2603 |
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Beowulf
Learned Scribe
Canada
322 Posts |
Posted - 28 Oct 2004 : 16:23:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Shayan
I just had to clear this up..
is the new goddess of magic, after ToT called Mystra or Midnight?
When Mystryl dies for Karsus's mistake, the new goddess is called Mystra, but now when Midnight replaces Mystra, she still seems to be referred to as Mystra, Goddess of Magic Why?
The epilogue of Waterdeep (The Avatar Trilogy) does not seem to make it clear as to what the new Goddess is called....
I don't think this is anywhere explained as a matter of canon. However, I suspect that, maybe, perhaps, it could be that people are just used to that name Mystra. Many probably had no idea that the original Mystra was even replaced, and so continued to pray, in reagrds to magical pursuits, to "Mystra". And even as Cyric, if I am not mistaken, answered prayers in Bhaal's name, so to did Midnight answer prayers offered up in the name of Mystra.
Why this has persisted for so long is, likewise, unclear. Perhaps it made little difference to Midnight, who would probably be flattered as a former worshipper of Mystra. And perhaps Mystras former followers just accpeted it, either out of ignorance and/or sheer convenience and familiarity????
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"Ill tempered the wretch, who laughs at everyone. He cannot recognize, as he should, that he is not without faults." the High One, Poetic Edda |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 28 Oct 2004 : 17:29:50
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| When Midnight took Mystra's place, she also took her name. I believe that part of the reason was to insure a seamless transition from one goddess to the next. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 28 Oct 2004 : 20:41:22
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| This was mentioned in The Prince of Lies, explained by Mystra to Oghma about how she did not want the Church of Mystra to break off or go in conflict. However, followers of Cyric goes around spreading the lies that Midnight is weak and cannot even use her name as a goddess. |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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Shayan
Acolyte
Australia
25 Posts |
Posted - 29 Oct 2004 : 09:25:33
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quote:
This was mentioned in The Prince of Lies, explained by Mystra to Oghma about how she did not want the Church of Mystra to break off or go in conflict.
Wasn't that because of her alignment change?
If I remember correctly Mystra was TN(?) and Midnight is NG...
or was that Mystryl who was Neutral...? |
Someone please tell me where to buy FR books in Australia!! Pretty Please...
Shayan's Subrace Engine - for NWNhttp://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Scripts.Detail&id=2603 |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 29 Oct 2004 : 10:06:54
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Since you still have questions, here's a little peak at the history of magic.
In the begining, there were two goddesses over Toril. On the one hand, you have Selune, goddess of light, the stars, and the moon. On the other, you have Shar, goddess of darkness, shadows, and the unknown.
The goddess running things on Toril was Chauntea, and she was a bit cold. Shar told her to put on a coat. Not liking Shar, Chauntea went to Selune. Selune rubbed two moonbeams together and created fire. This fire she blew up like a balloon and stuck it at a point in space that Toril was conveniently orbiting already for no logical reason.
Shar got a bit pissed off at this, because the fire was too bright and she doesn't look good in sunglasses. She and her sister got into a bit of a catfight and in the process they tore at each other's hair. The little bits of Selune that got torn off formed into Mystryl, Selune's daughter, goddess of magic. Mystryl, like a good little kid, helped her mom fight off Shar, and the sun was saved. Shar never forgot this, and kept her own torn bits for herself like some morbid trophy, which would later become a Plot Device.
Fast forward a few years. Life flourished under the new sun, and things were good. Then a guy from Netheril named Karsus gets a bit too big for his briches and decides that it would be Really Cool if he killed off the goddess of magic and took her place in the order of things. Thus he creates the only 12th level spell ever, and his Really Cool Idea becomes, instead, a Really, Really Bad Thing. Mystryl dies, only to be reborn as Mystra. Karsus dies, except he's also imprisioned in stone. Don't go casting stone to flesh on him, please. (Not that you could get it to work. It's just that if you did, Mystra would get a little Ticked Off.)
Oh, and Netheril falls. Litterally. Floating cities aren't so good if magic suddenly no longer exists, even for just a moment. Remember that, kids.
Mystra is essentially Mystryl, only more proactive. First she cuts off spells over 9th level, ensuring that fallen Netheril never gets up. Next she starts spreading magic around. She hires on a few people to her crew, including a former prince named Elminster. Of course, she turns him into a girl for a little while just to make certain he gets the point about who wears the pants around here.
And on we go again, almost to the present day. We come to: The Time Of Troubles. (Fanfare, please.) Here, we've got not one, but three people getting big for their britches. And since they happen to be gods, those are some pretty big britches, lemme tell you. They go off and steal the Tablets of Fate. Enter this guy named Ao. He owns the Tablets. He also happens to be the gods' boss. Not a good person to tick off. He tosses them all out of heaven and down with the mere mortals. Fortunately, because of Mystra's crew, magic doesn't completely disapear. It just goes a little bonkers.
Unfortunately, Mystra dies. How? Well, she got a little big for her britches, and tried pushing passed Helm. Helm's this big, armored god, who was the only one not kicked out of the heavens. Considering that the Tablets were under his guard, that seems odd to him, but he's not about to let anyone break any more rules that Mr. Ao hands down, so he smites her into next week. Since time travel's tricky, she bounces off of Einstien, hits the ground, and no more goddess of magic. Of course, technically there wasn't one at the time, so magic doesn't go any more haywire than it already was. Good thing Mystra had that foresight. Too bad it didn't extend to other matters.
And then, the Time of Troubles comes to an end, like all things with beginings do. Ao takes a stroll through Waterdeep to take back the Tablets from this little lady named Midnight. Now, Midnight was with Mystra when she left that more-than-mortal coil, and got a bit of her power. Because of this, and because of the super duper job she did giving him back the stolen property that Ao could have had back at any time he wanted, he promotes her to the job of Goddess of Magic.
Well, Midnight's not about to turn this down, so she accepts. Now we've got a once-human girl as a goddess -- oh, Ao preserve the Realms! She takes the name of Mystra (v.2.0), and decides to start running magic her way. Quite a few people don't really like that, since she wants to block off evil doers from magic. Now she's learning that being a goddess doesn't mean you get your way all the time. Of course, it does have a few perks, like free passes to the Lady Sune's Beauty Salon, or Elistraee's Dancing Studio. Now if only she could get over the fact that her predecessor had been fraternizing within the ranks. |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
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Lysander
Learned Scribe
USA
183 Posts |
Posted - 29 Oct 2004 : 16:09:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
 Bookwyrm, that is great!
Now we just have to get him to do the Fully annotated History of the Realms, Part 1, with all sorts of Facts you never wanted to know! |
Lysander
Defender of the Second Edition
Moderator, Project Gemengan, Worlds of D&D |
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Jerard Doonsay
Seeker
USA
65 Posts |
Posted - 29 Oct 2004 : 17:02:21
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History of the Realms Part 1?!?!?!?!?! Yippi!!!!!!
And don't forget to mention that Midnight is fratronizing as well *cough cough*Kelemvor*cough cough* |
May history live forever in the writings and stories of those who wish to tell them.
Please come and enjoy my website http://ferien.aribytes.org |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 29 Oct 2004 : 20:51:44
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| Jerard, didn't they break up at the end of Prince of Lies? I remember Cyric drinking down Mystra's and Kelemvor's tears |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 29 Oct 2004 : 22:57:34
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quote:
Originally posted by DDH_101
Jerard, didn't they break up at the end of Prince of Lies? I remember Cyric drinking down Mystra's and Kelemvor's tears
Faiths and Avatars certainly gives the impression that the current status of their relationship is unknown or up in the air. |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 29 Oct 2004 : 23:25:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Lysander
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Bookwyrm, that is great!
Now we just have to get him to do the Fully annotated History of the Realms, Part 1, with all sorts of Facts you never wanted to know!
 Ooo, don't know if I have that much in me. Particularly because I typed this out on very little sleep.
Glad ya'll liked it, though.  |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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Lysander
Learned Scribe
USA
183 Posts |
Posted - 30 Oct 2004 : 00:35:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Bookwyrm
quote:
Originally posted by Lysander
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Bookwyrm, that is great!
Now we just have to get him to do the Fully annotated History of the Realms, Part 1, with all sorts of Facts you never wanted to know!
Ooo, don't know if I have that much in me. Particularly because I typed this out on very little sleep.
Glad ya'll liked it, though.
Well... Then I guess we need a (Oh, can you guess? It's easy, really... and bleedingly obvious too...) Miracle! |
Lysander
Defender of the Second Edition
Moderator, Project Gemengan, Worlds of D&D |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 30 Oct 2004 : 05:48:08
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| Um . . . I don't get the joke. |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 30 Oct 2004 : 06:39:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Bookwyrm
Um . . . I don't get the joke.
It's a reference to the Mel Brooks movie History of the World, Part I.
It's been a long time since I saw it, but I seem to recall that at a few points in the movie (hundreds or even thousands of years apart), one character would say something along the lines of "We need a miracle to get out of here!" At that point, this horse -- Miracle -- would come running up. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 30 Oct 2004 : 15:31:17
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Bookwyrm, after recovering from my mirth, I forwarded your hilarious “little peak” at the early history of Toril to Ed of the Greenwood, and he phoned me up to roar with laughter (literally).
He also added this, by e-mail:
I’d love to get Peter Archer to somehow have WotC publish a little chapbook of Bookwyrm’s “explanations” (in this same style) of Realmsian matters for sale or giveaway at GenCons. (Unfortunately, I doubt the corporate structure now allows such whimsical flexibility. What a hoot! More! More!
So you’ve made the Great Sage’s day!
(Not to mention mine) 
love,
THO
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Edited by - The Hooded One on 30 Oct 2004 16:36:42 |
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Lysander
Learned Scribe
USA
183 Posts |
Posted - 30 Oct 2004 : 16:16:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
It's a reference to the Mel Brooks movie History of the World, Part I.
It's been a long time since I saw it, but I seem to recall that at a few points in the movie (hundreds or even thousands of years apart), one character would say something along the lines of "We need a miracle to get out of here!" At that point, this horse -- Miracle -- would come running up.
 Thanks, Wooly. I was hoping I wouldn't have to explain that one myself. I didn't think it was that cryptic. |
Lysander
Defender of the Second Edition
Moderator, Project Gemengan, Worlds of D&D |
Edited by - Lysander on 30 Oct 2004 16:18:06 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 30 Oct 2004 : 18:38:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Lysander
Thanks, Wooly. I was hoping I wouldn't have to explain that one myself. I didn't think it was that cryptic.
Not a prob!
Some movie references everyone catches, some other references fly right over everyone's heads. I myself was exchanging Clerks quotes with a guy at work yesterday, and no one knew what we were talking about! |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 30 Oct 2004 18:40:21 |
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Lysander
Learned Scribe
USA
183 Posts |
Posted - 30 Oct 2004 : 20:00:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Lysander
Thanks, Wooly. I was hoping I wouldn't have to explain that one myself. I didn't think it was that cryptic.
Not a prob!
Some movie references everyone catches, some other references fly right over everyone's heads. I myself was exchanging Clerks quotes with a guy at work yesterday, and no one knew what we were talking about!
LOL!
I thought it would be obvious, since we were referencing the movie by name, as a quote, in the same post as I did the line.  Ah well.
LOL... now, to drag this back somewhere close to relevant:
Snapshot analysis, T.D.N.C.L.A.P.C.Y.L.*, we could conceivably call Bookwyrm's compliation "History of the Realms, Part 1" using both FR and "History of the World, Part 1" as blatant reference points, including the ever-present Miracle, er Mystra. Why? Parody/satire exceptions.
*T.D.N.C.L.A.P.C.Y.L. = This does not constitute legal advice, please consult your lawyer.
Hmm. Need Smaller Type. ;) |
Lysander
Defender of the Second Edition
Moderator, Project Gemengan, Worlds of D&D |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 30 Oct 2004 : 23:49:58
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quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
Bookwyrm, after recovering from my mirth, I forwarded your hilarious “little peak” at the early history of Toril to Ed of the Greenwood, and he phoned me up to roar with laughter (literally).
He also added this, by e-mail:
I’d love to get Peter Archer to somehow have WotC publish a little chapbook of Bookwyrm’s “explanations” (in this same style) of Realmsian matters for sale or giveaway at GenCons. (Unfortunately, I doubt the corporate structure now allows such whimsical flexibility. What a hoot! More! More!
So you’ve made the Great Sage’s day!
(Not to mention mine)
love,
THO
 Yay!
You both just made mine! 
I was actually in a pretty bad mood until I read that. Now this dragon's all smiles. (Unfortunately, draconic smiles seem to make people uneasy.  )
I guess now I'll have to write something else. Hum . . . don't know what. I'll have to work at it. Maybe we can put something into the newsletter we're making for Candlekeep.
By the way, I phoned my mother up to read her this message (she really likes Mr. Greenwood, both for what he's said about her son's writing skills and for the copy of Volo's Guide to the North she read). She wants to know if "Peter Archer" wants to meet his brother Jack. (Her words, I swear.) |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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Lady Kazandra
Senior Scribe
Australia
921 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2004 : 07:22:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Bookwyrm
quote:
Originally posted by Lysander
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Bookwyrm, that is great!
Now we just have to get him to do the Fully annotated History of the Realms, Part 1, with all sorts of Facts you never wanted to know!
Ooo, don't know if I have that much in me. Particularly because I typed this out on very little sleep.
Glad ya'll liked it, though.
Indeed  . When will we see the next piece?
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"Once upon a time the plural of 'wizard' was 'war'." -- The Last Continent, by Terry Pratchett |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2004 : 07:30:22
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And notice, folks, that she doesn't mention that we were just talking about this privately.  |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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Lady Kazandra
Senior Scribe
Australia
921 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2004 : 07:35:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Bookwyrm
And notice, folks, that she doesn't mention that we were just talking about this privately.
Well, I didn't know whether you wanted to keep it as a surprise . . .  I just didn't think it would be appropriate to blurt out our private discussion here at Candlekeep . . .
Anyways . . .
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"Once upon a time the plural of 'wizard' was 'war'." -- The Last Continent, by Terry Pratchett |
Edited by - Lady Kazandra on 01 Nov 2004 07:36:53 |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2004 : 07:54:10
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Well, then this is the public blurt: I'm considering doing a "History of the Realms, Part 1" for the Candlekeep newsletter, which may or may not be in the first issue.
Since this one is already public, I won't use it. I will, however, clean it up* and give it to Alaundo to put on the main site, if he wants.
* (i kant spel 4 a milyon dolers) |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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Lady Kazandra
Senior Scribe
Australia
921 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2004 : 08:08:42
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Yes, it is. Still, you did not mention the "possible" topic for your new section . . .
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"Once upon a time the plural of 'wizard' was 'war'." -- The Last Continent, by Terry Pratchett |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2004 : 08:35:01
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Hmm, fancy that.
You know what I'm currently trying, and the Newsletter scribes know what's been suggested there. Of course, it would be just mean of me if I didn't let the good folks out here speculate over what might come down the pipeline . . . . |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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Alaundo
Head Moderator
United Kingdom
5692 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2004 : 08:47:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Bookwyrm
Well, then this is the public blurt: I'm considering doing a "History of the Realms, Part 1" for the Candlekeep newsletter, which may or may not be in the first issue.
Since this one is already public, I won't use it. I will, however, clean it up* and give it to Alaundo to put on the main site, if he wants.
* (i kant spel 4 a milyon dolers)
::rubs hands with glee:: |
Alaundo
Candlekeep Forums Head Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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An Introduction to Candlekeep - by Ed Greenwood
The Candlekeep Compendium - Tomes of Realmslore penned by Scribes of Candlekeep
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2004 : 09:26:12
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| I take it that's a yes. |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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Alaundo
Head Moderator
United Kingdom
5692 Posts |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2004 : 09:36:50
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| I'll certainly try. Of course, you aren't the only one looking to bury me in work. |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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Winterfox
Senior Scribe
895 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2004 : 12:25:22
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| Just discovered this via some convoluted and random clicking, and I had to say, Bookwyrm -- that was fabulously funny. Thanks for the giggling fit, but I almost had to send you bills for my keyboard (which came dangerously to being splattered -- alongside the monitor -- with iced caffe latte from Starbucks). |
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Mystryl, Mystra, Midnight?
