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Beowulf
Learned Scribe
Canada
322 Posts |
 Posted - 12 Oct 2004 : 18:49:44
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Well met!
To the best of my knoweldge Jhaamdath was a realm started when Jhaam of the Dath Dynasty united a number of communities north of the Chondalwood. This realm grew to encompass the area of modern day Chondath and Sespech, and even began to expand along the Lake of Steam until it at last ran into, and checked, the expansion of the Calimshan Empire.
It was destroyed in the year -255 DR when the elves of the Chondalwood called up a great tidal wave that wiped all trace of its coastal cities, et al. from the face of the Vilhon Reach.
Its survivors are said to have thence gone north to found Old Impiltur, Thesk, the Vast, and then to have crossed the Reach to found the Dalelands.
Was Cormyr founded by these same folk via Impiltur? Or was Cormyr settled from the southern coast of the lake?
Did these folk (Jhaamdathans) also found Westgate and the Dragon Coast? As perhaps a different line of migration out of Jhaamdath? One going north into Impiltur and another moving west in to the Dragon Coast?
How did the folk of Turmish end up with mahagony skin? Was it peopled by the folk of Calimsham? Perhaps one of the rogue djinn that settled the SW Inner Sea area?
And how was Chondath resettled? From Impiltur, and thus definitely a reverse migration of Jhaamdathans back into their former homeland? Is the dath in Chon-dath thus somehow reflective of the old Dath dynasty that originally founded Jhaamdath? Or was it settled from the Dragon Reach, and thus possibly by a different culture?
Also, I came across a reference in an internet timeline that placed paladins of Lathander in the Vilhon Reach in the year -137 DR. They went from here to Westgate and bcame kings I think. Yet the settlement that would one day grow into Alaghon didn't exist before -37 DR., while Iljack (first city along the Emerald Corridor) wasn't founded until 20 DR. And as far as I know Lathanderism isn't a major faith in the modern Vilhon Reach. So, where did these paladins come from? A secluded monastery?
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"Ill tempered the wretch, who laughs at everyone. He cannot recognize, as he should, that he is not without faults." the High One, Poetic Edda |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6646 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2004 : 06:42:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Beowulf
Well met!
To the best of my knoweldge Jhaamdath was a realm started when Jhaam of the Dath Dynasty united a number of communities north of the Chondalwood. This realm grew to encompass the area of modern day Chondath and Sespech, and even began to expand along the Lake of Steam until it at last ran into, and checked, the expansion of the Calimshan Empire.
All absolutely A-1 correct.
quote:
It was destroyed in the year -255 DR when the elves of the Chondalwood called up a great tidal wave that wiped all trace of its coastal cities, et al. from the face of the Vilhon Reach.
Its survivors are said to have thence gone north to found Old Impiltur, Thesk, the Vast, and then to have crossed the Reach to found the Dalelands.
Still absolutely A-1 correct.
quote:
Was Cormyr founded by these same folk via Impiltur? Or was Cormyr settled from the southern coast of the lake?
The Cormyr that we know of today, that is, the Obarskyrs and the current Silver family nobility all originally came from Impiltur. As Ondeth Obarskyr says in "Cormyr" A Novel" (hardcover), p.85: "Some bad times have come down on the land we came from. Plagues, tyrants, bad kings. The usual."
Other nobles did indeed come from the areas south of present-day Cormyr, specifically the Vilhon Reach. Some of these are noted in Ed Greenwood's DRAGON articles (The New Adventures of Volo - Issues #278 to #281).
Note that the settlement of Marsember was the first settlement on the northern coast of the Dragonmere, being founded in -74 DR ("Sea of Fallen Stars", p.5). Westgate was the first human settlement on the south coast of the Dragonmere, and when founded as a human settlement in -349 DR (see Eric Boyd's "Cloak & Dagger" web enhancement piece on Westgate) was the northernmost 'human' settlement on the shores of the Inner Sea.
quote:
Did these folk (Jhaamdathans) also found Westgate and the Dragon Coast? As perhaps a different line of migration out of Jhaamdath? One going north into Impiltur and another moving west in to the Dragon Coast?
This is very likely, but note that the first king of Westgate was Saldrinar, a "Halruaan" (or ex-Netherese more likely ...). One would think that Westgate's population was bolstered by "free settler" Jhaamdathi who travelled northwest to seek out new lands to settle, farm and be free of the hegemony of the Twelve Cities of the Sword. Some also 'hopped' across the Mere after the fall of Jhaamdath and the big exodus to found Marsember in all likelihood (although there is no doubt that Marsember had an Impilturian influence also).
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How did the folk of Turmish end up with mahagony skin? Was it peopled by the folk of Calimsham? Perhaps one of the rogue djinn that settled the SW Inner Sea area?
See "Races of Faerun", p.109. The inhabitants of Turmish are predominately of the race known as Turami. This race was pushed out of present-day Mulhorand/Unther by the Mulan race that fled westward after the fall of Raurin and the Imaskar Empire. It is likely that the Turami were allowed to mix with the native Chondathans of Jhaamdath (but may have been a strata of second-class citizens or perhaps even slaves) until that realm's fall in -255 DR. Seizing their opportunity, the Turami finally united as a race and formed their own nation: Turmish.
quote:
And how was Chondath resettled? From Impiltur, and thus definitely a reverse migration of Jhaamdathans back into their former homeland? Is the dath in Chon-dath thus somehow reflective of the old Dath dynasty that originally founded Jhaamdath? Or was it settled from the Dragon Reach, and thus possibly by a different culture?
Chondath wasn't re-settled. It didn't need to be. Even though Jhaamdath was dead and gone in terms of a nation and a social/political/civil power, thousands of Chondathans survived the Vengeance Waves of the elves of Nikerymath - they just had no central authority to answer to when the waters receded (to some extent). Typically, some surviving Chondathans (ex-nobles of Jhaamdath, strong warriors/wizards et. al., rich humans, etc. etc.) attempted to create their own power bases, small realms, independent holdings etc. Over time, Chondath coalesced out of this tumult and chaos in 144 DR ("Sea of Fallen Stars", p.5.) as an "official", unified nation. Chondath pretty much existed after the fall of Jhaamdath, it just wasn't unified and wasn't called Chondath until 144 DR.
quote:
Also, I came across a reference in an internet timeline that placed paladins of Lathander in the Vilhon Reach in the year -137 DR. They went from here to Westgate and bcame kings I think. Yet the settlement that would one day grow into Alaghon didn't exist before -37 DR., while Iljack (first city along the Emerald Corridor) wasn't founded until 20 DR. And as far as I know Lathanderism isn't a major faith in the modern Vilhon Reach. So, where did these paladins come from? A secluded monastery?
Again, referring to the above, the paladins of Lathander came from the Vilhon Reach, as you've indicated. They came from somewhere - a somewhere that has likely been lost, conquered, lies in ruins or reduced in power/status to a simple village in modern-day Turmish or Chondath. As for the religions of the Vilhon Reach, Ed has written that the Vilhon was always the "cradlelands" of modern human settlement of the Inner Sea, Moonsea, Dalelands and Unapproachable East. Periodically, there would be a population blowout necessitating humans to move out of a crowded Vilhon to other, less-populated lands. I've never seen anything that says that the worship of Lathander isn't present in the Vilhon, and "Faiths & Avatars" notes that his clergy have always been encouraged to spread the faith by building shrines and temples in new lands throughout Faerun. I don't think this is an issue.
I hope some of the above commentary has been useful for you.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2004 : 13:37:22
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
Other nobles did indeed come from the areas south of present-day Cormyr, specifically the Vilhon Reach. Some of these are noted in Ed Greenwood's DRAGON articles (The New Adventures of Volo - Issues #278 to #281).
Now that's somet information I didn't know about. Thanks for passing it along. Now I need to find out if I can find those issues. Are the Volo articles in the issues you mentioned devoted entirely to Cormyr?
SB |
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Beowulf
Learned Scribe
Canada
322 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2004 : 16:41:41
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
I hope some of the above commentary has been useful for you.
-- George Krashos
Very useful indeed! Many thanks!  |
"Ill tempered the wretch, who laughs at everyone. He cannot recognize, as he should, that he is not without faults." the High One, Poetic Edda |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6646 Posts |
Posted - 14 Oct 2004 : 05:03:47
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
Now that's somet information I didn't know about. Thanks for passing it along. Now I need to find out if I can find those issues. Are the Volo articles in the issues you mentioned devoted entirely to Cormyr?
SB
Yes, the articles were titled "Lost Treasures of Cormyr" Parts 1-4. Good reading and full of lovely little details like who was Baerauble's son and grandson and ancestors of Florin Falconhand of the KoMD. Surprised you've never come across them, SB ...
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 14 Oct 2004 : 16:02:37
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
Yes, the articles were titled "Lost Treasures of Cormyr" Parts 1-4. Good reading and full of lovely little details like who was Baerauble's son and grandson and ancestors of Florin Falconhand of the KoMD. Surprised you've never come across them, SB ...
-- George Krashos
I realized I had, after I made the earlier post. I did some digging and found Dragon #278 in one of my boxes of gaming material. Those articles were enjoyable although I was much more interested in the ancestors rather than any treasure. 
Thanks again.
SB |
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Senbar Flay
Learned Scribe
185 Posts |
Posted - 19 Oct 2004 : 22:20:55
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| I see that Nikerymath was mentioned it is was a nation of elves correct however I was wondering if their is any information on it as it seems it was not as early an empire to have participated in the crown wars. |
Imagination is more important than knowledge for knowledge is limited imagination encircles the world.- Albert Einstein |
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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author
USA
1707 Posts |
Posted - 20 Oct 2004 : 19:26:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Senbar Flay
I see that Nikerymath was mentioned it is was a nation of elves correct however I was wondering if their is any information on it as it seems it was not as early an empire to have participated in the crown wars.
I'm going from memory here, so if I screw up, I pray George will come along and clean up after me. 
Nikerymath is a survivor state of refugees and various tribes from the three elven "countries" destroyed early on by the drow of Illithiyr. Syorpiir is the only one that leaps to mind.
Before and during the first 3 Crown Wars, these southern elves would either stay and die, flee into the eastern forest (that survives as the Chondalwood), or transform into sea elves and populate the inner sea (as noted in SOFS, also populated by refugee elves in the north as well, but the bulk of them come from here).
So you're right--Nikerymath is a state from after the Crown Wars eras. And no, there's not much info on it as I recall, though I may be wrong there. What little I ever wrote on it is in Cormanthyr,Sea of Fallen Stars, and Empires of the Shining Sea (if at all).
Steven
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For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6646 Posts |
Posted - 21 Oct 2004 : 11:50:59
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As Steven notes, most of the elves of Nikerymath came from Syorpiir. here is the timeline entry:
c. -6500 A group of elves, mainly immigrants from Syorpiir, settle the great forest now known as the Chondalwood and name their new home Nikerymath. The elf city among the trees, Rucien Xan is founded.
References are: Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting (III), p.267; Empires of the Shining Sea, p.40.
There also may be some additional information in the "Vilhon Reach" accessory by Jim Butler.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Senbar Flay
Learned Scribe
185 Posts |
Posted - 21 Oct 2004 : 22:18:54
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Thank you very much for clearing this up I read about it before but I couldn't find any info on it and Iwas horibly confused.  Now it won't puzzle me everytime I read about it. |
Imagination is more important than knowledge for knowledge is limited imagination encircles the world.- Albert Einstein |
Edited by - Senbar Flay on 21 Oct 2004 22:21:48 |
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cpthero2
Great Reader
USA
2285 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2018 : 17:44:54
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Learned Scribe Beowulf,
Here is a comprehensive list identifying the materials and citations:
http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Jhaamdath
Best regards,
quote:
Originally posted by Beowulf
Well met!
To the best of my knoweldge Jhaamdath was a realm started when Jhaam of the Dath Dynasty united a number of communities north of the Chondalwood. This realm grew to encompass the area of modern day Chondath and Sespech, and even began to expand along the Lake of Steam until it at last ran into, and checked, the expansion of the Calimshan Empire.
It was destroyed in the year -255 DR when the elves of the Chondalwood called up a great tidal wave that wiped all trace of its coastal cities, et al. from the face of the Vilhon Reach.
Its survivors are said to have thence gone north to found Old Impiltur, Thesk, the Vast, and then to have crossed the Reach to found the Dalelands.
Was Cormyr founded by these same folk via Impiltur? Or was Cormyr settled from the southern coast of the lake?
Did these folk (Jhaamdathans) also found Westgate and the Dragon Coast? As perhaps a different line of migration out of Jhaamdath? One going north into Impiltur and another moving west in to the Dragon Coast?
How did the folk of Turmish end up with mahagony skin? Was it peopled by the folk of Calimsham? Perhaps one of the rogue djinn that settled the SW Inner Sea area?
And how was Chondath resettled? From Impiltur, and thus definitely a reverse migration of Jhaamdathans back into their former homeland? Is the dath in Chon-dath thus somehow reflective of the old Dath dynasty that originally founded Jhaamdath? Or was it settled from the Dragon Reach, and thus possibly by a different culture?
Also, I came across a reference in an internet timeline that placed paladins of Lathander in the Vilhon Reach in the year -137 DR. They went from here to Westgate and bcame kings I think. Yet the settlement that would one day grow into Alaghon didn't exist before -37 DR., while Iljack (first city along the Emerald Corridor) wasn't founded until 20 DR. And as far as I know Lathanderism isn't a major faith in the modern Vilhon Reach. So, where did these paladins come from? A secluded monastery?
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Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring |
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Jhaamdath and it's offspring
