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cpthero2
Senior Scribe

USA
472 Posts

Posted - 05 Oct 2018 :  20:01:38  Show Profile  Visit cpthero2's Homepage Send cpthero2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Learned Scribe Misereor,

That is a fantastic acknowledgement of something really awesome! I never even had that in my mind. Is there any way you could dig more of that up and come back with a more robust analysis of that? I would really like to get your additional take on that!!!

Thank you and best regards,




quote:
Originally posted by Misereor


Regarding Cpthero2's insurance policy hypothesis:

There is one interesting bit in one of the Storm Silverhand novels. I forget the name because it was many years ago I read it, but it was some type of murder mystery that had a shard of Bane as the culprit.

When Storm tred to examine the shard, she discovered only that it was a fragment of someone that had once been a mortal man, and was so ashamed of his past that the shard committed suicide rather than let Storm find out anything more.

If Cpthero2 is correct, could the change in manifestation to become more like Xvim maybe be a tactic of Bane's to divest himself of any remains of his mortality?



Robert McDonell
Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring
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cpthero2
Senior Scribe

USA
472 Posts

Posted - 05 Oct 2018 :  20:05:31  Show Profile  Visit cpthero2's Homepage Send cpthero2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Great Reader sleyvas,

DAMN! That is one hot, awesome-sauce, mega theory, and I for one love it! I didn't even think to connect Xvim going to Abeir! That is so deep, I have to ask Great Reader: were digging into the hallucinogenics last night, having a Xvimite divination ritual? You, Alaundo, and El Nar'ysr in a poker room sometime would be a fun as hell event to listen in on!

Best regards,




quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

Ok, I'm announcing from the outset... going out on a limb here with some of the ideas we've been throwing around the last year or two.

We've been wondering about three tyrannical entities... Bane, Xvim, and Gilgeam.... since the sundering and the last 2 brimstone angels novels. Gilgeam appears to be returned according to the novel, but he calls himself the "Son of Victory" instead of the "Father of Victory". He's also very weak and seemingly at least somewhat dependent on an item for his power. Still he professes to be Gilgeam, and people believe him.

We had been discussing the idea that where Mourktar WAS is all water during 4th edition, and that that area may have transferred to Abeir (the only indication otherwise is a RLB's novel which has them approaching a city CALLED Mourktar... which may be a "new" city established in the last century by survivors of vanished Mourktar within the remaining bounds of Threskel... I say new, because it may be 80 years old). In Mourktar was "the largest temple of Bane", but one which favored the colors of Green and Black, which were Xvim's traditional colors.


So, what if prior to the spellplague, Xvim HAD been trying to take over his father's shoes, then the spellplague happened. Perhaps it was original Bane "left behind"/"returned" to Toril, much as how Amaunator and other gods "returned"... and Xvim went to Abeir. Xvim then begins posing as Gilgeam to a displaced Untheric population. It should also be noted, Xvim is half-demonic, and the army that "Gilgeam"/"Son of Victory" is leading is supported by demons. Leading into this hypothesis is the idea that the novels indicate that Enlil sees something familiar in "Gilgeam", but also something different. If Xvim were to inhabit Gilgeam's former god flesh that might create this strange mix.


Robert McDonell
Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring
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cpthero2
Senior Scribe

USA
472 Posts

Posted - 05 Oct 2018 :  20:13:01  Show Profile  Visit cpthero2's Homepage Send cpthero2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Master Rupert,

I couldn't agree more! I loved Iyachtu Xvim as a deity. What a powerhouse. He really showed how amazingly shrewd such a profoundly evil god could be and bring tyranny, fear, and hatred a menacing and terrifying name of power to truly be contended with!

Best regards,




quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by rowwhenn

My pleasure ; I dislike Xvim , and when you want to fight something , better you know it , better you'll win



Myself, I liked Xvim. I thought he had much better style than Bane... I was actually disappointed to read of Bane's return.


Robert McDonell
Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring
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cpthero2
Senior Scribe

USA
472 Posts

Posted - 05 Oct 2018 :  20:14:08  Show Profile  Visit cpthero2's Homepage Send cpthero2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Learned Scribe Phantom_Lord,

Sadly, he didn't have all that much information done up on him. Yet one more amazing deity that had a significant lack of exploration done to develop a true powerhouse!

Best regards,




quote:
Originally posted by Phantom_Lord

I needed some comprehensive info on this quasi-power. Pre-ToT of course.

For example, the origins of Xvim are not entirely clear some say his mum was a demon some say she was a goody two shoes paladin that fell head over heels for Bane. He was also a ruler of Westgate for a while!

Anyone with any notes or info on Xvim?

Thanks, much appreciated!

Phantom_Lord


Robert McDonell
Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring
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cpthero2
Senior Scribe

USA
472 Posts

Posted - 05 Oct 2018 :  20:15:56  Show Profile  Visit cpthero2's Homepage Send cpthero2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Learned Scribe Neil,

Well, I will have to respectfully disagree with you regarding the implication of Xvim not having brains. In Tymora's Luck, he was devastatingly intelligent. It was shocking how epic he was in that novel.

Best regards,



quote:
Originally posted by Neil

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Myself, I liked Xvim. I thought he had much better style than Bane... I was actually disappointed to read of Bane's return.

'Banite' sounds better than 'Xvimlar'. That, and I really liked Bane, and missed him while he was gone. He was a god with tradition, brains and charisma, although as I understood it, certain TSR policies related to morality in the novels and sourcebooks made him come off a little like Dr. Claw ("I'll get you next time, Gadget! Next time!")

Bringing back Bane in the official products saves me the trouble of doing it myself. ;)


Robert McDonell
Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring
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cpthero2
Senior Scribe

USA
472 Posts

Posted - 05 Oct 2018 :  20:17:13  Show Profile  Visit cpthero2's Homepage Send cpthero2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Master Rupert,

Agreed with the name issue. Xvimlar sounds, to me at least, much better than Banite. Just a preference though.

Best regards,




quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by Neil

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Myself, I liked Xvim. I thought he had much better style than Bane... I was actually disappointed to read of Bane's return.

'Banite' sounds better than 'Xvimlar'. That, and I really liked Bane, and missed him while he was gone. He was a god with tradition, brains and charisma, although as I understood it, certain TSR policies related to morality in the novels and sourcebooks made him come off a little like Dr. Claw ("I'll get you next time, Gadget! Next time!")

Bringing back Bane in the official products saves me the trouble of doing it myself. ;)



I don't even like the name "Bane", much less terms like "Banite". "Iyachtu Xvim" is a cool name to say, and "Xvimlar" very much works for me.


Robert McDonell
Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
7582 Posts

Posted - 05 Oct 2018 :  22:59:02  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by cpthero2

Great Reader sleyvas,

DAMN! That is one hot, awesome-sauce, mega theory, and I for one love it! I didn't even think to connect Xvim going to Abeir! That is so deep, I have to ask Great Reader: were digging into the hallucinogenics last night, having a Xvimite divination ritual? You, Alaundo, and El Nar'ysr in a poker room sometime would be a fun as hell event to listen in on!

Best regards,




quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

Ok, I'm announcing from the outset... going out on a limb here with some of the ideas we've been throwing around the last year or two.

We've been wondering about three tyrannical entities... Bane, Xvim, and Gilgeam.... since the sundering and the last 2 brimstone angels novels. Gilgeam appears to be returned according to the novel, but he calls himself the "Son of Victory" instead of the "Father of Victory". He's also very weak and seemingly at least somewhat dependent on an item for his power. Still he professes to be Gilgeam, and people believe him.

We had been discussing the idea that where Mourktar WAS is all water during 4th edition, and that that area may have transferred to Abeir (the only indication otherwise is a RLB's novel which has them approaching a city CALLED Mourktar... which may be a "new" city established in the last century by survivors of vanished Mourktar within the remaining bounds of Threskel... I say new, because it may be 80 years old). In Mourktar was "the largest temple of Bane", but one which favored the colors of Green and Black, which were Xvim's traditional colors.


So, what if prior to the spellplague, Xvim HAD been trying to take over his father's shoes, then the spellplague happened. Perhaps it was original Bane "left behind"/"returned" to Toril, much as how Amaunator and other gods "returned"... and Xvim went to Abeir. Xvim then begins posing as Gilgeam to a displaced Untheric population. It should also be noted, Xvim is half-demonic, and the army that "Gilgeam"/"Son of Victory" is leading is supported by demons. Leading into this hypothesis is the idea that the novels indicate that Enlil sees something familiar in "Gilgeam", but also something different. If Xvim were to inhabit Gilgeam's former god flesh that might create this strange mix.





Thank you, and I don't use such products, but I do come up with wild ideas a lot. The other folks often have to reign me in by catching the parts I may miss, which usually leads to more extrapolation, and better ideas.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
7582 Posts

Posted - 05 Oct 2018 :  22:59:36  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by cpthero2

Great Reader sleyvas,

DAMN! That is one hot, awesome-sauce, mega theory, and I for one love it! I didn't even think to connect Xvim going to Abeir! That is so deep, I have to ask Great Reader: were digging into the hallucinogenics last night, having a Xvimite divination ritual? You, Alaundo, and El Nar'ysr in a poker room sometime would be a fun as hell event to listen in on!

Best regards,




quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

Ok, I'm announcing from the outset... going out on a limb here with some of the ideas we've been throwing around the last year or two.

We've been wondering about three tyrannical entities... Bane, Xvim, and Gilgeam.... since the sundering and the last 2 brimstone angels novels. Gilgeam appears to be returned according to the novel, but he calls himself the "Son of Victory" instead of the "Father of Victory". He's also very weak and seemingly at least somewhat dependent on an item for his power. Still he professes to be Gilgeam, and people believe him.

We had been discussing the idea that where Mourktar WAS is all water during 4th edition, and that that area may have transferred to Abeir (the only indication otherwise is a RLB's novel which has them approaching a city CALLED Mourktar... which may be a "new" city established in the last century by survivors of vanished Mourktar within the remaining bounds of Threskel... I say new, because it may be 80 years old). In Mourktar was "the largest temple of Bane", but one which favored the colors of Green and Black, which were Xvim's traditional colors.


So, what if prior to the spellplague, Xvim HAD been trying to take over his father's shoes, then the spellplague happened. Perhaps it was original Bane "left behind"/"returned" to Toril, much as how Amaunator and other gods "returned"... and Xvim went to Abeir. Xvim then begins posing as Gilgeam to a displaced Untheric population. It should also be noted, Xvim is half-demonic, and the army that "Gilgeam"/"Son of Victory" is leading is supported by demons. Leading into this hypothesis is the idea that the novels indicate that Enlil sees something familiar in "Gilgeam", but also something different. If Xvim were to inhabit Gilgeam's former god flesh that might create this strange mix.





Thank you, and I don't use such products, but I do come up with wild ideas a lot. The other folks often have to reign me in by catching the parts I may miss, which usually leads to more extrapolation, and better ideas.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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cpthero2
Senior Scribe

USA
472 Posts

Posted - 06 Oct 2018 :  03:38:45  Show Profile  Visit cpthero2's Homepage Send cpthero2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Great Reader sleyvas,

You're quite welcome!

Best regards,




quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

quote:
Originally posted by cpthero2

Great Reader sleyvas,

DAMN! That is one hot, awesome-sauce, mega theory, and I for one love it! I didn't even think to connect Xvim going to Abeir! That is so deep, I have to ask Great Reader: were digging into the hallucinogenics last night, having a Xvimite divination ritual? You, Alaundo, and El Nar'ysr in a poker room sometime would be a fun as hell event to listen in on!

Best regards,




quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

Ok, I'm announcing from the outset... going out on a limb here with some of the ideas we've been throwing around the last year or two.

We've been wondering about three tyrannical entities... Bane, Xvim, and Gilgeam.... since the sundering and the last 2 brimstone angels novels. Gilgeam appears to be returned according to the novel, but he calls himself the "Son of Victory" instead of the "Father of Victory". He's also very weak and seemingly at least somewhat dependent on an item for his power. Still he professes to be Gilgeam, and people believe him.

We had been discussing the idea that where Mourktar WAS is all water during 4th edition, and that that area may have transferred to Abeir (the only indication otherwise is a RLB's novel which has them approaching a city CALLED Mourktar... which may be a "new" city established in the last century by survivors of vanished Mourktar within the remaining bounds of Threskel... I say new, because it may be 80 years old). In Mourktar was "the largest temple of Bane", but one which favored the colors of Green and Black, which were Xvim's traditional colors.


So, what if prior to the spellplague, Xvim HAD been trying to take over his father's shoes, then the spellplague happened. Perhaps it was original Bane "left behind"/"returned" to Toril, much as how Amaunator and other gods "returned"... and Xvim went to Abeir. Xvim then begins posing as Gilgeam to a displaced Untheric population. It should also be noted, Xvim is half-demonic, and the army that "Gilgeam"/"Son of Victory" is leading is supported by demons. Leading into this hypothesis is the idea that the novels indicate that Enlil sees something familiar in "Gilgeam", but also something different. If Xvim were to inhabit Gilgeam's former god flesh that might create this strange mix.





Thank you, and I don't use such products, but I do come up with wild ideas a lot. The other folks often have to reign me in by catching the parts I may miss, which usually leads to more extrapolation, and better ideas.


Robert McDonell
Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring
Go to Top of Page

redking
Seeker

54 Posts

Posted - 07 Oct 2018 :  01:15:18  Show Profile Send redking a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I am with Wooly Rupert. Xvim is Bane, Bane is Xvim.

It might be interesting to throw that in as a new Banite doctrine. A duality, father and son as one being.
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cpthero2
Senior Scribe

USA
472 Posts

Posted - 07 Oct 2018 :  14:49:53  Show Profile  Visit cpthero2's Homepage Send cpthero2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Seeker redking,

I can absolutely see that. Though, I can see that they are and are not, at the exact same time.

I mean...there are rumors from the real world there is a religion that has some sort of confusing group of entities being individual and the same at the same time...

Best regards,



quote:
Originally posted by redking

I am with Wooly Rupert. Xvim is Bane, Bane is Xvim.

It might be interesting to throw that in as a new Banite doctrine. A duality, father and son as one being.


Robert McDonell
Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring
Go to Top of Page

Misereor
Learned Scribe

162 Posts

Posted - 08 Oct 2018 :  08:01:14  Show Profile Send Misereor a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by redking
It might be interesting to throw that in as a new Banite doctrine. A duality, father and son as one being.



If an Unholy Ghost shows up at some point, I'm calling shenanigans.

What is dead may never die, but rises again, harder, stronger, in a later edition.
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Misereor
Learned Scribe

162 Posts

Posted - 08 Oct 2018 :  08:11:31  Show Profile Send Misereor a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by cpthero2
That is a fantastic acknowledgement of something really awesome! I never even had that in my mind. Is there any way you could dig more of that up and come back with a more robust analysis of that?



I'm afraid not. Between a flooded basement and a divorce, I usually have to go by recollection when quoting stuff. Lost damn near a full collection of FR stuff from 1st and 2nd ed. >:p


What is dead may never die, but rises again, harder, stronger, in a later edition.
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cpthero2
Senior Scribe

USA
472 Posts

Posted - 08 Oct 2018 :  13:46:32  Show Profile  Visit cpthero2's Homepage Send cpthero2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Learned Scribe Misereor,

haha...fair enough!

Best regards,




quote:
Originally posted by Misereor

quote:
Originally posted by redking
It might be interesting to throw that in as a new Banite doctrine. A duality, father and son as one being.



If an Unholy Ghost shows up at some point, I'm calling shenanigans.



Robert McDonell
Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring
Go to Top of Page

cpthero2
Senior Scribe

USA
472 Posts

Posted - 08 Oct 2018 :  13:54:56  Show Profile  Visit cpthero2's Homepage Send cpthero2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Learned Scribe Misereor,

Wow. I commiserate.

Best regards,




quote:
Originally posted by Misereor

quote:
Originally posted by cpthero2
That is a fantastic acknowledgement of something really awesome! I never even had that in my mind. Is there any way you could dig more of that up and come back with a more robust analysis of that?



I'm afraid not. Between a flooded basement and a divorce, I usually have to go by recollection when quoting stuff. Lost damn near a full collection of FR stuff from 1st and 2nd ed. >:p




Robert McDonell
Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring
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