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 the fey'ri with some hellgate spoilers
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Phobos
Seeker

Germany
19 Posts

Posted - 22 Jul 2004 :  13:32:28  Show Profile  Visit Phobos's Homepage Send Phobos a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
so as my first post i decided to call for help! :) i am about to throw the hellgate keep adventure at my players in the next one or two months and since yesterday i'm trying to sort out the fey'ri - hellgate keep connection... i would like to explain how i understood things and i would beg you to correct me if i am wrong and help me out. i don't own every book of the 2nd/3e/3.5 FR line... so be kind.

house dlardrageth is originally a cormanthirian house, survivors of the crown wars, but part of the arcorar elves, right? the first question would be... who are the arcorar elves? the dlardrageth started breeding spawns with tanar'ri to strengthen their bloodline and for that they were punished by the rest of the elves of arcorar (other clans) and trapped under their own castle. some of them, seven to be exact, escaped and hid where hellgate keep is now, well was but was not back then... oh, you know! the arcorar high mages, after some centuries, checked on the dlardrageth and realised some where missing, found the escapees and killed 4 of them. the other three they trapped in their new home, underground. somehow this sparked the seven citadel's war... didn't really get it why, eventhough hellgate keep makes a small comment.
after the destruction of hellgate keep these three were freed.
the fey'ri are offsprings of three minor houses of siluvanede (another of the many elven nations, situated n the high forest, i can't seem to be able to keep in my memory... too many of them i think). these bred with tanar'ri as well and were imprisoned as well probably by the arcorar elves. when hellgate keep was destroyed the three nobles that were freed (ryvvik, sarya and xhalh) found the fey'ri and started the organisation described in LoD (Lords of Darkness). ryvvik though was killed by his aunt sarya, for whatever reason.

now the other two guys... the marquis cambion kaanyr vhok and aliiza, where just part of the tanar'ri trapped in hellgate keep before it was destroyed and were freed as well... so they have no connection per se to house dlardrageth but to the tanarruk. another question would be... what happened to them two? i know he appears in one of the war of the SQ novels but do they appear in supplements as well?

is that more or less correct???

another question would be... if a cambion is a half fiend... what is a marquis cambion. i mean how would you show, abilitywise in 3.5 that he is more powerful? this last question might not belong in this part of the forum but it felt natural to ask it in the same thread.

thank you for your patience... and in advance for your help! :)

Edited by - Phobos on 23 Jul 2004 08:53:26

SiriusBlack
Great Reader

USA
5517 Posts

Posted - 23 Jul 2004 :  13:20:58  Show Profile  Visit SiriusBlack's Homepage Send SiriusBlack a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:

the marquis cambion kaanyr vhok and aliiza, where just part of the tanar'ri trapped in hellgate keep before it was destroyed and were freed as well... so they have no connection per se to house dlardrageth but to the tanarruk. another question would be... what happened to them two? i know he appears in one of the war of the SQ novels but do they appear in supplements as well?



Actually both appear in the WOTSQ series. If you can find Books II and III in the series, they provide an excellent overview for how their organization works.
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Phobos
Seeker

Germany
19 Posts

Posted - 23 Jul 2004 :  13:26:53  Show Profile  Visit Phobos's Homepage Send Phobos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
thanks... i'm a bit behind with my novels... still reading the archwizards... but WOTSWQ is next... by the time we finish HK i'll have read them. :)

what about the fey'ri... is it confusing you as well or is my question really silly?
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Phobos
Seeker

Germany
19 Posts

Posted - 25 Jul 2004 :  09:51:18  Show Profile  Visit Phobos's Homepage Send Phobos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
you leave me no choise but to qoute star wars... "a yes or no will do"!!!

but seriously... is that a dumb question? i really feel overwhelmed by all this info coming from different books and the link between the fey'ri and that cambion elf house is a bit hazy for me!
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
5950 Posts

Posted - 25 Jul 2004 :  12:55:20  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Although I can understand your confusion, you seem to have a grasp of what occurred but not why it occured. In other words, you fail to understand why the Seven Citadels War was sparked by the attacks of the elves of Arcorar against the remnants of House Dlardrageth.

The answer is quite simple: the rivalry (and sometimes outright prejudice) between gold elves and moon elves. Arcorar was the realm of elves in the Cormanthor forest. House Dlardrageth was a gold elf house that bred with demons, was found out and cast down by the horrified elves of Arcorar.

Some Dlardrageth members fled west to the High Forest region. They encouraged three minor gold elf houses of Siluvanede [at the time there are three elven realms in the High Forest: Siluvanede (exclusively gold elves), Sharrven (moon elves) and Eaerlann (mostly moon elves but with a few gold elves of Siluvanede who aren't as "superior" as their brethren)] to also consort with demons and begin their own foul breeding programs.

The attack on the remnants of House Dlardrageth by the elves of Arcorar (another elven realm entirely) with the aid of the moon elves of Eaerlann puts Siluvanede's nose out of joint. Sure, House Dlardrageth are a disgrace to gold elves, but they should be disciplined and brought down by other gold elves (i.e. those of Siluvanede), not 'lesser' moon elves.

The rest, as they say, is history. War breaks out. I suggest you get a copy of Rich Baker's "Last Mythal" novel trilogy when you can, as it deals with the history of these events in some detail.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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Phobos
Seeker

Germany
19 Posts

Posted - 25 Jul 2004 :  16:17:37  Show Profile  Visit Phobos's Homepage Send Phobos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
thank you george krashos (not greek by any chance are you??)

now i understand the whole thing at last. what book/supplement would i have to peek into to get to know all these elven realms a bit better?

last mythal is on top of my "i need to have" list! looking forward to the first part.

thanks again.
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benking27
Acolyte

5 Posts

Posted - 08 Apr 2005 :  22:24:45  Show Profile  Visit benking27's Homepage Send benking27 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Actually Ryvik was Sarya's son but she murdered him and elevated Xhalph to son status.

Sex isn't a game. It's a lifestyle.
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Vangelor
Learned Scribe

USA
183 Posts

Posted - 11 Jan 2006 :  09:52:28  Show Profile Send Vangelor a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Best source on lost Elven realms is Lost Empires of Faerun. You get the whole backstory of the Crown Wars, the realms of Arcorar (which is the forest now called Cormanthor) and the realms of the High Forest, each in its own chapter.
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Vvornth
Seeker

Sweden
48 Posts

Posted - 11 Jan 2006 :  14:06:24  Show Profile  Visit Vvornth's Homepage Send Vvornth a Private Message  Reply with Quote
What supplement/novel described the destruction of Hellgate Keep to begin with.

It's good to be king
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31701 Posts

Posted - 11 Jan 2006 :  14:50:40  Show Profile Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Vvornth

What supplement/novel described the destruction of Hellgate Keep to begin with.

That would be the 2e adventure module -- Hellgate Keep.

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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer

USA
1745 Posts

Posted - 11 Jan 2006 :  15:09:26  Show Profile  Visit ericlboyd's Homepage Send ericlboyd a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage

quote:
Originally posted by Vvornth

What supplement/novel described the destruction of Hellgate Keep to begin with.

That would be the 2e adventure module -- Hellgate Keep.




Actually, it was "The North". "Hellgate Keep" built on it.

--Eric

--
http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31701 Posts

Posted - 11 Jan 2006 :  16:53:24  Show Profile Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd

quote:
Originally posted by The Sage

quote:
Originally posted by Vvornth

What supplement/novel described the destruction of Hellgate Keep to begin with.

That would be the 2e adventure module -- Hellgate Keep.




Actually, it was "The North". "Hellgate Keep" built on it.

--Eric

May as well throw in Volo's Guide to the North and Savage Frontier, for mentions on the origins of Hellgate Keep .

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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)

"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage

Edited by - The Sage on 11 Jan 2006 16:59:22
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Giilvas Vyshaan
Acolyte

USA
4 Posts

Posted - 15 Feb 2006 :  17:58:12  Show Profile  Visit Giilvas Vyshaan's Homepage Send Giilvas Vyshaan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I don't know of publishing dates etc., but didn't Arcane Age: Cormanthor also talk about the Dlardrageth fiasco, and show where exactly in Myth Drannor the estate actually is/was?

In the Year of Risen Elfkin, the Vyshaantar Empire will be reborn out of ruin and retake its rightful position in Faerun.
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monknwildcat
Learned Scribe

USA
285 Posts

Posted - 23 Apr 2008 :  19:24:43  Show Profile  Visit monknwildcat's Homepage Send monknwildcat a Private Message  Reply with Quote
back-story wise:

If you're talking about the 2nd ed Cormanthyr: Empire of the Elvesies, then, yes, it did, although I don't have it with me.

House Dlardrageth's pad figures (at a cameo level) in the Greenwood novel Elminster in Myth Drannor, too, I believe.

But The North does a better job with the Keep itself.
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Duneth Despana
Learned Scribe

Belgium
267 Posts

Posted - 02 Aug 2015 :  00:24:12  Show Profile Send Duneth Despana a Private Message  Reply with Quote
(misposted)

« There is no overriding « epic » in the Realms, but rather a large number of stories, adventures, and encounters going on all the time. [...]. Each creative mind adds to the base, creating, defining, and making their contribution to the rich diversity of the Realms. [...]. But Ed built the stage upon which all the plays are presented. Thanks Ed. » -FR Comic no.1

Edited by - Duneth Despana on 02 Aug 2015 00:25:03
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Phaesporia
Acolyte

1 Posts

Posted - 17 Sep 2020 :  16:39:28  Show Profile Send Phaesporia a Private Message  Reply with Quote
So, in 2e, Volo's Guide to the North and FRCS (2e) mentions Hellgate Keep but it hadn't been destroyed yet.

In Cormanthyr: Empire of Elves, there's mention of Dlardrageth Keep, giving it a bit of a backstory and how the house was trapped within before eventually murdering each other. In Hellgate and Cloak and Dagger, it talks about the surviving Dlardrageth family, the individuals, the Daemonfey faction and how they broke out when the Hellgate Keep was destroyed in 1368. After it was destroyed, they went to the Nameless Dungeon (also called Nar Kerymhoarth and the fifth out of five armory the Daemonfey had) and released several Fey'ri that had been imprisoned there by moon elves. These fey'ri were the survivors/descendants of those who fought in the Seven Citadels' War after the attack and imprisonment of the surviving Dlardrageth.

That seems to be where the lore begins, which, is touched up upon in 3e/3.5e.

Now, skip to 3e/3.5e and we have the FRCS (3e) where it specifies the Harpers destroyed the Hellgate Keep and the Dlardrageth were released, who then released the Fey'ri from the Nameless Dungeon. There's also Player's Guide to Faerun, Lords of Darkness, Races of Faerun, Champions of Ruin, Silver Marches,and Monsters of Faerun. These all talk about the Daemonfey/Fey'ri, the Dlardrageths being released from the destruction of Hellgate in 1368 DR and them releasing the Fey'ri from the Nameless Dungeon soon after.

------------------------------------------------------------


Nothing up to this point contradicts itself (as far as Daemonfey lore goes, Hellgate Keep lore seems to have a few but always falls in 1368), the lore only adding or summarizing the events that have unfolded, not including any information from the Last Mythal Trilogy.

Now, there are two 3.5e sources that seem to push into 4e lore and retcon information thus far; the Grand History of the Realms and Lost Empires of Faerun. They place the Daemonfey release in 1369 DR instead of 1368 DR and later talk about releasing a Fey'ri legion as well as 1374 shenanigans.

These two sources very clearly take from the novels instead of the 10 listed lore sources, and they also lead into 4e.

The novels are interesting, but I personally wouldn't take them as lore given the strange retcons that happen right around the time things were leading to the release of 4e but that's the list of sources on Dlardrageth, Hellgate, and the Daemonfey I've found thusfar. I may be missing a few pre-4e! I highly recommend anyone who's interested to read them as it's fascinating lore. Most of the details are in the 2e sources, Champions of Ruin (3e) and Lords of Darkness (3e), the rest seem to touch upon what's already there before the two sources that begin retconning details.

---------------------------------------------------------------


Here's the short list:

[Hellgate exists, no mention of Daemonfey/Dlardrageth]
Volo’s Guide to the North (2e)
FRCS (2e)

[Daemonfey lore starts, Hellgate falls in 1368]
Hellgate Keep (2e)—talks about Dlardrageth individuals
Cloak and Dagger (2e)—faction details and 7 surviving Dlardrageth, 4 dead 3 imprisoned
Cormanthyr: Empire of Elves (2e)—Dlardrageth Keep backstory

[Existing lore is touched up for 3e]
FRCS (3e) —Harpers destroyed Hellgate 1368
Player’s Guide to Faerun (3e)
Lords of Darkness (3e)
Races of Faerun (3e)
Champions of Ruin (3.5e)
Silver Marches (3e)
Monsters of Faerun (3e)

[Retcons previous lore in favor of using the novels as a base for canon]
Grand History of the Realms (3.5e-4e) Dlardrageth released in 1369 DR, but goes to 1374, lore taken from novels
Lost Empires of Faerun (3.5e-4e) same as above, lore taken from novels
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AJA
Senior Scribe

USA
517 Posts

Posted - 17 Sep 2020 :  19:40:11  Show Profile Send AJA a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Phaesporia

So, in 2e, Volo's Guide to the North and FRCS (2e) mentions Hellgate Keep but it hadn't been destroyed yet.

Hellgate Keep was destroyed "offscreen," relayed in location descriptions and the "History" section (starting roughly p.10 of The Wilderness booklet) of The North box set (2E, 1996). This only mentions "fiends" and the annis there, no fey'ri yet.


AJA
YAFRP
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PattPlays
Learned Scribe

122 Posts

Posted - 18 Sep 2020 :  04:50:57  Show Profile  Visit PattPlays's Homepage Send PattPlays a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Just because I am a nutcase for the Delimbyr valley, I do want to ask if it would be okay to append this thread with further comments on Hellgate in the modern era? Perhaps in a sense of continuing this compendium of all mentions across editions.

As far as my research has gone it seems that, in 1485+, Hellgate Dell is a raised crater which is all but overgrown by the forest and is protected by Treants. I always wondered what this would look like to a 5e explorer. Do we think the place has a certain radius where the foliage doesn't get close enough? The treants are said to attack or persuade those who get close to Hellgate and turn them back, but I wonder how close they get to such an evil place itself.
I always wondered what effect the remaining creatures inside Hellgate Dell would have on the region, and at which distance in feet or miles that explorers would enter into some dread aura.
I also am fascinated by Elvenport.. there is so much history in this area that has next to nothing detailed in 5e. (Storm King's Thunder has so much information about all sorts of places, yet has not a single mention of Hellgate keep.) The potential in each single creature in that region is endless.. I mean, if there are still 3000 year old Fey'ri from the Nameless Dungeon (or their descendants) then both Hellgate Dell's ruins as well as the rogue's haven of Elvenport are veritable time capsules! However getting there to do any kind of anthropology would likely be nigh impossible... 3000 year old creatures..

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