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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
 Posted - 17 Jul 2004 : 10:20:28
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What is he exactly? I've noted several sources on him, one of which mentions him as a Demon Lord, the other, as a Demon Prince.
I'm compelled to think that he is a Demon Prince, simply because of the reference in the Unapproachable East tome on pg. 157. It says -
quote:
"...the seals holding the demon prince Eltab under the city..."
The 2e supplement Red Wizards of Thay details Eltab as a Demon Prince also. However, the player cards from the 2e Spellbound boxed set class him as an "Abyssal Lord" and that like most other abyssal lords he is uniquely different from the standard balor...
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2004 : 10:49:45
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| Well, what's the difference between an abyssal lord and a demon prince? |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2004 : 11:01:32
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An abyssal lord would be something akin to Demogorgon, a balor so powerful that's it's only a heartbeat away from *true* divinity. A demon prince on the other hand is, like Orcus, a balor that must still accept, and carry out the orders of those balors of greater rank. They can still command legions, but they must answer to a tanar'ri of greater ability. And since there's only a few true abyssal lords, that makes for hundreds of demon princes.
Not that Orcus has ever been in that position, but that's the general interpretation I gather from the Faces of Evil: The Fiends tome.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6646 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2004 : 11:15:23
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Rich Baker has stated a simple "Yes" when asked if Eltab will feature in future FR products on the WotC FR Message Boards. It looks like your question will be answered then.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
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Sarelle
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
508 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2004 : 12:26:34
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The Player's Guide to Faerūn, pg. 143:
quote:
Prominent demon princes include Demogorgan, Eltab... Orcus...
I would have thought that demon lords were less powerful than princes. And Orcus has been mentioned as the demon lord closest to achieving divinity, even if Demogorgan is more powerful, in the BoVD. |
Chair of the The Rightful Return of Monster Deities to FR Society (RRMDFRS)
My character, drawn by Liodain: Sarelle / Sarelle (smaller) |
Edited by - Sarelle on 17 Jul 2004 12:30:18 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2004 : 15:22:29
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Sarelle, you should know better than that  . The BoVD does a poor job (stats wise) of detailing the various Abyssal Lords and Arch Devils.
I mean, using the general stats for demon lords presented in the book, Ogrijek would be weaker than Orcus... and that simply isn't right  . Especially when you consider that Ogrijek is a Lord himself, who also just happens to be a "living abyssal layer". Surely he'd be of a level of power higher than that of Orcus...
Those stats simply shouldn't have been included. Asmodeus most of all... In my campaigns, the Lord of the Ninth is just as unknown as the LoP...
Heh... I just had a disturbing thought. Perhaps they are one and the same - Asmodeus and the Lady of Pain... 
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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LordNull
Acolyte
USA
10 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2004 : 15:57:46
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the main differance between a Demon lord and Prince is that Demon Prince ruled over one or more planes. And a Demon lord ruled less than a whole plane. I hope that helps |
Artificial intelligence has nothing on natural stupidity |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2004 : 16:24:10
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That's not always the case though. And there's simply too many layers of the Abyss for that to be a truly valid assumption. Who can really know what the truth of it actually is...
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2004 : 16:56:37
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| According to the Player's Guide he is a demon prince..... Page 189 in the last section on that page, lower right corner. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
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VEDSICA
Senior Scribe
USA
466 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2004 : 21:07:30
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| I agree.He is a big bad dude.Still don't understand how Tazi beat him. |
LIFE,BIRTH,BLOOD,DOOM---THE HOLE IN THE GROUND IS COMING ROUND SOON----BLS |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6646 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jul 2004 : 09:09:33
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Is that the upcoming Fiend Lords supplement I've heard about?
That I don't know, but I'd like him to feature in an FR product, rather than a core product with a few nods to the FR setting. But then again, beggars can't be choosers. And we FR fans beg (and choose) alot!
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Lord Rad
Great Reader
United Kingdom
2080 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jul 2004 : 10:50:46
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Is that the upcoming Fiend Lords supplement I've heard about?
Where did you hear of this, Sage? Got anymore info? ::wipes drool from chin:: |
Lord Rad
"What? No, I wasn't reading your module. I was just looking at the pictures"
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jul 2004 : 03:21:53
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Well, I'd heard about this particular tome on EN World first (which normally means it's either a rumor with little truth behind it, or a strange fantasy concocted by Limbo-induced trauma  ), but I've also heard two other references to the book on both the WotC boards, and RoE.
So, I'm assuming that there's at least some truth to these references now. I'm not even sure whether it's a core D&D supplement (which is more likely), or an FR sourcebook...
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jul 2004 : 03:26:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Isn't it enough to say he's a big bad dude? 
I think that is one point that we can all agree on. Which, in itself proves a little about what Eltab is exactly. Now granted, your standard Balor is one fearsome creature to behold in combat, but I find it unlikely that the residents of Eltabbar would be frighteningly concerned if this was the case. Only a (trapped) Demon Prince could evoke that kind of fear in the populace.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6646 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jul 2004 : 03:44:30
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Oh, I can guarantee you Sage that he's more than just a balor. There is an actual write-up of him in the Spellbound boxed set - 2E separate sheet in Monstrous Compendium format. I'm sure whoever "does him" will build on that.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
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Lord Rad
Great Reader
United Kingdom
2080 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jul 2004 : 09:15:59
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quote:
Originally posted by VEDSICA
I agree.He is a big bad dude.Still don't understand how Tazi beat him.
SPOILERS FOR THE CRIMSON GOLD
Quite! To me, that scene was the downfall of the novel. I felt that prior to the final scene, the portrayal of Thay was perfect (Ssaz Tam was a little too nice though!), but the whole "Crimson Gold" usage felt out of place and like WotC has forced VWR to write the item in, just to follow the theme of the titles of the Rogues series. The whole transformation by lowering Tazi into the vat was also a bit silly.
Anyway, best not start a Crimson Gold chat here |
Lord Rad
"What? No, I wasn't reading your module. I was just looking at the pictures"
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Lady Kazandra
Senior Scribe
Australia
921 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jul 2004 : 03:46:46
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Is that the upcoming Fiend Lords supplement I've heard about?
I thought that particular tome had been dropped down the list of upcoming published material? I remember reading something about October 2005 . . . ?
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"Once upon a time the plural of 'wizard' was 'war'." -- The Last Continent, by Terry Pratchett |
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Arion Elenim
Senior Scribe
933 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jul 2004 : 06:33:21
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So then I gather that a Demon Prince could be demoted...
Then he'd be the Demon Lord formerly known as Prince...
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My latest Realms-based short story, about a bard, a paladin of Lathander and the letter of the law, Debts Repaid. It takes place before the "shattering" and gives the bard Arion a last gasp before he plunges into the present.http://candlekeep.com/campaign/logs/log-debts.htm |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jul 2004 : 13:08:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Arion Elenim
So then I gather that a Demon Prince could be demoted...
Then he'd be the Demon Lord formerly known as Prince...
Very well done. |
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cpthero2
Great Reader
USA
2285 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2018 : 16:23:53
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Master Sage,
And for those of you who come seeking this knowledge as well, a compiled and very interested collection of lore on Eltab:
http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Eltab
Best regards,
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
What is he exactly? I've noted several sources on him, one of which mentions him as a Demon Lord, the other, as a Demon Prince.
I'm compelled to think that he is a Demon Prince, simply because of the reference in the Unapproachable East tome on pg. 157. It says -
quote:
"...the seals holding the demon prince Eltab under the city..."
The 2e supplement Red Wizards of Thay details Eltab as a Demon Prince also. However, the player cards from the 2e Spellbound boxed set class him as an "Abyssal Lord" and that like most other abyssal lords he is uniquely different from the standard balor...
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Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring |
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Eltab
