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Nephilim
Acolyte

United Kingdom
33 Posts

Posted - 16 Jun 2004 :  20:25:34  Show Profile  Visit Nephilim's Homepage Send Nephilim a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
I am planning a game set in Cormyr and I have found references to The Sword Heralds but the details are a little vague. Does anyone know anything beyond what is covered in the 2nd Ed Cormyr Source book and Volo's guide to Cormyr?

I have a theory that they may have been some or all of the power mages from GreyHawk - Bigby, Mordenkainen, and the others. A post I read somewhere says that there was once many portals connecting Greyhawk with Toril but the portals are now forgotten hence the name - The Forgotten Realms. Well, perhaps these portals weren't so forgotten a thousand years ago?

ooops.

George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
6004 Posts

Posted - 17 Jun 2004 :  04:06:56  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The only additional information on the Sword Heralds is found in Cloak & Dagger (p.26) which notes that Khelben was part of this group (incognito) for a time. Note that Cloak & Dagger mistakenly notes them as the "Storm Heralds" but it should be "Sword" (This error was picked up during our run-through of the rough cut but the message never got through to the editor obviously.)

Other than that, you are on your own. Of course, FRCS 3E comes up with a group called the "Mages Regal" - which to me sound suspiciously like the Sword Heralds. I said so during the FRCS development phase but obviously someone liked their Mages Regal and wanted them kept that way.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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Jakk
Great Reader

Canada
2165 Posts

Posted - 09 Oct 2008 :  03:20:52  Show Profile Send Jakk a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ah, the Sword Heralds... the more little snippets I read about them in particular, and about Cormyr in general, the more disappointed I am that we never saw a Cormyr 3E sourcebook. It was sorely needed and will be sadly missed.

Of course, this scroll is over four years old, and if anybody has any more information now, it is happily received.

Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.

If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic.
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Brian R. James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer

USA
1096 Posts

Posted - 09 Oct 2008 :  04:08:44  Show Profile  Visit Brian R. James's Homepage Send Brian R. James a Private Message  Reply with Quote
What exactly are you hoping to see in a 3E Cormyr sourcebook that you couldn't get from the many 2E versions? Stats? Otherwise the lore is all there for you to use.

Brian R. James - Freelance Game Designer

Follow me on Twitter @brianrjames
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Jakk
Great Reader

Canada
2165 Posts

Posted - 09 Oct 2008 :  04:56:35  Show Profile Send Jakk a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I just would have appreciated having the current pre-Spellplague Cormyr lore between one pair of covers, hopefully revealing more lore made available by the expiry/cancellation of outdated NDAs... but I know that old NDAs don't expire; they just get older.

Anyway, I'm slowly getting used to the Spellplague... it probably would have been easier had I also been infected by it.

I'm also (equally slowly) managing to track down all the snippets of cyberlore I had missed. That's my bad for not scouring the Wizards website thoroughly and frequently enough over the last six years.

Still, a published tome on the Lands of Intrigue would have been nice too... but I'm introducing great changes to that region in my campaign, so it's just as well.

Anyway, returning to scroll topic... is there anything further you (or anyone else) can share regarding the Sword Heralds, particularly their leader... whose name I now can't find, but he's probably still alive immediately pre-Spellplague... he was a stag-headed multiclass wizard-druid of Silvanus... name not returning... doh!

Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.

If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic.
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore

1861 Posts

Posted - 09 Oct 2008 :  05:33:35  Show Profile  Visit Icelander's Homepage Send Icelander a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Brian R. James

What exactly are you hoping to see in a 3E Cormyr sourcebook that you couldn't get from the many 2E versions? Stats? Otherwise the lore is all there for you to use.


I was hoping for a consolidation of all older lore, an update on places and characters for all the events that happened in novels (there were significant chances to cities like Arabel, many towns and villages and the people in charge). I'd have liked to see a few changes in local lords, garrison commanders and heralds, given that it's inevitable that some people would have fallen in wars, and a few new ones introduced.

Basically, I'd have liked to see the 4+ traumatic years that passed given a longer treatment in a game supplement. I want a timeline and maps that tell me how the Devil Dragon War affects a group of adventurers travelling near Espar in Uktar 1371 DR and how that same group might find Eveningstar in Alturiak 1372 DR. Where did goblin raids cause the worst devastation? Where did the crop failures cause the most famine? Where did the army ride and where did it not?

Currently, I have to cull data from almost a dozen supplements, even a couple of adventures and at least four novels just to get some idea about a given place in Cormyr during these years. I don't even know precisely when Arabel is recovered, which causes a bit of trouble to campaigns set there, I can tell you.

A Silver Marches sized book about Cormyr would have been a dream come true for me.

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Garen Thal
Master of Realmslore

USA
1095 Posts

Posted - 10 Oct 2008 :  00:09:49  Show Profile  Visit Garen Thal's Homepage Send Garen Thal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Brian R. James

What exactly are you hoping to see in a 3E Cormyr sourcebook that you couldn't get from the many 2E versions? Stats? Otherwise the lore is all there for you to use.

Hoo, boy...

I hate to disagree with my friend and fellow-Brian, here, but I could easily argue that there is more lore missing from the 3E lore than there is present. Because of the fiction that preceded the 2E-3E changes, one of the very obviously lacking things in 3E was Cormyr lore... and that's ignoring the fact that Cormyr, despite being the home of Ed's original Realms campaign, the region that is most developed, and the portion of FR that is most "core-friendly" (with a place for adventurers, a role for every class, the most directly relatable as a "medieval fantasy kingdom"), Cormyr didn't even get the coverage in 2E that it should have gotten.

Now, I'm obviously biased (seeing as I'm the "Cormyr guy" and would like there to be a Cormyr supplement every few years for as long as I can turn the pages of them), but here's some of what could have gone into a 3E Cormyr supplement:

An overview on the Forest Kingdom for core D&D players
One of the things that's always been missing from FR products is a "primer" to bring D&D players into the Realms. Because Cormyr has always fit the core assumptions players (and non-players) have, it's easy to throw a couple of pages out letting people know what it means to play in Cormyr--and how Cormyr can serve as a 'gateway' region into the wider Realms.

Cormyr-Specific Mechanics
Volo's Guide to Cormyr and Volo's Guide to All Things Magical have plenty of magic items specific to Cormyr. Then there's Ilbratha from Sea of Fallen Stars, and room for plenty more material as well, just in terms of magic items.

There's Crown Wards and Sword Herald Refuges and the magic of the Mages Royal, lingering elven magics from the time of Lythlorn and older remnants of Orva, not to mention smaller, never-mentioned settlements.

There's the continuing plagues of Marsember.

There are prestige classes for roles that were never addressed (Crown agents, for one), and way more for those that were addressed wrongly (Purple Dragon knights, War Wizards, Highknights).

There is tons of material that could have been included in such a book, but since we're supposed to ignore the statistical side of things, I'll move on.

What's going on now?
We've got a dead king, a dead princess, an infant heir on the throne, an unwilling regent, a retired and not-dead Royal Magician and his outlander successor. No matter how small you type it, six pages is woefully insufficient to cover these issues even for seasoned Realms fans--who, frankly, only were okay with the level of coverage in FRCS because they (like the members of the FRCS design time) were expecting a sourcebook further down the road to fill in the massive blanks.

There were six novels set in and around Cormyr between its last 2E-coverage and 3E, and people wanted more Cormyr lore during 2E, when they were relegated to a short sourcebook and a travel guide. While I appreciate that amount of coverage, I'd like to have seen something approaching the level of coverage that Waterdeep got in that same period.

Serving the Crown
One of the issues that's never been adequately addressed is what it means when a PC serves the Crown as a Purple Dragon, a War Wizard, a Highknight, or some other agent. What sort of freedoms does she have? What sort of assignments can she expect to receive? What role (and protections) do her comrades have? What sort of campaign is formed when you have just one PC that serves Cormyr? What does it look like when everyone is a servant of the Dragon Throne?

Purple Dragons
On the above note, it took forever for us to get a published listing of PD ranks. Those ranks still don't have direct meaning, because we got them in a chart in a larger book.

We don't know what sort of authority Dragons have in general to make arrests, detain foreigners or suspects, search property, attack adventurers(!), or misbehave. We don't know what the relative ranks stand for other than "I've got a shinier badge than him."

Given the level of interest in Cormyr and the amount of fiction published there, we should be let in on some of these issues by now.

The Nobles
Generally speaking, it would have been nice to finally get a holistic picture of the nobility. What do the various ranks and titles mean in relation to one another, other than greater prestige? What can an earl get away with that a baron can't?

It also would have been great to see a sort of rundown of the noble families--something I know Ed has information on--at the level provided for Waterdeeps houses in the 2E City of Splendors boxed set... or even what was in the 3E City of Splendors: Waterdeep web enhancement.

Adventure Locales
Cormyr is home to Suzail, Marsember, Arabel, the Stonelands, the Marshes of Farsea and Tun, the Vast Swamp, the Hullack Forest, the Goblin Marches, High Horn, Castle Crag, Gnoll pass, and portals to the extraplanar city of Grodd. More than enough places to adventure for an entire campaign and then some. Detailing just a few of these, or even giving DMs two-page spread (a full-page, keyless map and a one-page run down of the sorts of inhabitants there) would have been a glorious addition to FR and to D&D in general.

Oh, and the Haunted Halls of Eveningstar are there, too.

--
I could go on, but I'll stop here.

I'm usually pretty quiet about this issue beyond my general "I like more Cormyr" calls, but I think it has to be said: of all the moves during 3E, WotC squandered a brilliant opportunity in the Realms to bring new players in, detail a long-fallow region, bring the setting up to date with the changes pre-edition shift, bring the game world into line with the increased interest produced by the fiction, show D&D players as a whole that detail is good, provide a great "one-product" campaign book, and overall give readers what they wanted.
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Brian R. James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer

USA
1096 Posts

Posted - 10 Oct 2008 :  02:09:26  Show Profile  Visit Brian R. James's Homepage Send Brian R. James a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Weíre woefully off topic at this point but Iíd like to explain my last post. Would I have liked to see a 3rd-Edition Cormyr sourcebook? Hell yes. But thatís the same part of me that wanted and purchased the 3rd-Edition Waterdeep sourcebook. Did I need yet another sourcebook on the City of Splendors? Not really.

Frankly, I would have preferred a sourcebook on just about any of the numerable areas that have *never* received regional coverage. High on my list would have been a sourcebook on Sembia (itís smack in the middle of the Heartlands yet we no oh so little about it). How about the Dragon Coast or the Western Heartlands? Despite Krashosí excellent dragon article we still know very little about Impiltur. Itís been twenty years since weíve seen anything on the Moonshaes and we know very little about Lantan and Nimbral. Same with Lapaliiya, Tashalar, Thindol and Samarach.

Brian R. James - Freelance Game Designer

Follow me on Twitter @brianrjames
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore

1861 Posts

Posted - 10 Oct 2008 :  02:37:51  Show Profile  Visit Icelander's Homepage Send Icelander a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I second Sembia, absolutely. Dragon Coast would also hold interest for me (and I'd buy any of the others, albeit not quite as eagerly and joyfully).

But Cormyr is, I've gathered from Ed's answers, the most developed area of the Forgotten Realms, but we're still reduced to scouring old Realms-L posts to get information on many basic facts of interest to adventurers and GMs.

I stil don't know what it means for a character to be an ex-Swordcaptain, for example. Does that mean he's a grizzled veteran drawn from the ranks of commoner soldiers or does it mean that he's a fresh faced new officer of better birth? Given how many PCs are Purple Dragons or ex-Purple Dragons, the lack of canon information about the various ranks is very bothersome.

And that's just one example. I could have picked hundreds of others.

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Forgotten Realms fans, please sign a petition to re-release the FR Interactive Atlas
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Jakk
Great Reader

Canada
2165 Posts

Posted - 10 Oct 2008 :  04:47:07  Show Profile Send Jakk a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Brian R. James

Weíre woefully off topic at this point but Iíd like to explain my last post. Would I have liked to see a 3rd-Edition Cormyr sourcebook? Hell yes. But thatís the same part of me that wanted and purchased the 3rd-Edition Waterdeep sourcebook. Did I need yet another sourcebook on the City of Splendors? Not really.

Frankly, I would have preferred a sourcebook on just about any of the numerable areas that have *never* received regional coverage. High on my list would have been a sourcebook on Sembia (itís smack in the middle of the Heartlands yet we no oh so little about it). How about the Dragon Coast or the Western Heartlands? Despite Krashosí excellent dragon article we still know very little about Impiltur. Itís been twenty years since weíve seen anything on the Moonshaes and we know very little about Lantan and Nimbral. Same with Lapaliiya, Tashalar, Thindol and Samarach.



My answer to the questions "Do we want 3E sourcebooks on these regions?" and "Were there still areas left to explore in pre-4E Faerun?": H311 YES! As you know from my previous posts, my answer is quite the opposite when asked "Was a new edition necessary?" and "Was the ReSEt necessary?"

As you've pointed out, Brian, this scroll is woefully off-topic, but I'm not sure that it matters, given that any answers are now going to have to come from Ed, which means the questions are in the wrong scroll to begin with.

Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.

If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic.
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Jakk
Great Reader

Canada
2165 Posts

Posted - 10 Oct 2008 :  05:01:06  Show Profile Send Jakk a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Garen Thal


<chop>
I'm usually pretty quiet about this issue beyond my general "I like more Cormyr" calls, but I think it has to be said: of all the moves during 3E, WotC squandered a brilliant opportunity in the Realms to bring new players in, detail a long-fallow region, bring the setting up to date with the changes pre-edition shift, bring the game world into line with the increased interest produced by the fiction, show D&D players as a whole that detail is good, provide a great "one-product" campaign book, and overall give readers what they wanted.



Garen, you're missing an important point that should have been obvious to the extent of being large, blunt, and not a point at all. As we've seen from the FRCG and FRPG, but mostly from the blowup and timeline advance negating the relevance of all previously published lore except to those PCs who keep their History skill maxed out, Wizbro has decided that detail is not good, at least not in a published setting. Detail is something that should come from the DM's time and effort over the course of the campaign, not the publisher's product. Yes, I have forced myself to read them both, but I don't and won't own them; a friend of mine still picked up the FRPG even after feeling much the same way I feel about the FRCG. I appreciate his sacrifice, and I refuse to let it be in vain.

Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.

If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic.

Edited by - Jakk on 10 Oct 2008 05:04:59
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Faraer
Great Reader

3308 Posts

Posted - 10 Oct 2008 :  15:50:06  Show Profile  Visit Faraer's Homepage Send Faraer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Brian R. James

What exactly are you hoping to see in a 3E Cormyr sourcebook that you couldn't get from the many 2E versions? Stats? Otherwise the lore is all there for you to use.

The Volo's Guides are excellent within their specialized roles -- giving impressionistic overviews of what places are like to visit, including detailed treatment of shops, inns, taverns and a lot of adventure hooks and sketches of adventuring sites -- but they aren't complete or balanced sourcebooks. They tell you only scraps about the history, society and government of places, what it's like to live there as opposed to pass through, how national and local organizations work, and so on. In Cormyr's case those things are covered very superficially in Eric Haddock's Cormyr sourcebook. The rest is -- incompletely and often only by inference -- scattered across dozens of novels, articles, online posts and privately circulated files.

Every other region of the core Realms is similarly inadequately detailed. There aren't 'many 2E versions' of anywhere in the Realms except arguably Waterdeep. My most missed 3E regional sourcebooks are, yes, Sembia and the Dragon Coast, Cormyr, and the Dales, which are just as important as Cormyr but worse covered in the above-mentioned source miscellany.

Edited by - Faraer on 10 Oct 2008 15:54:36
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader

USA
7106 Posts

Posted - 10 Oct 2008 :  16:01:49  Show Profile  Visit Rinonalyrna Fathomlin's Homepage Send Rinonalyrna Fathomlin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Brian R. James
Same with Lapaliiya, Tashalar, Thindol and Samarach.




Weren't some of those covered in the Shining South sourcebook? The information in there wasn't exactly copious, but still, it was there.

"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time)
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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore

Canada
1796 Posts

Posted - 10 Oct 2008 :  23:07:12  Show Profile Send Purple Dragon Knight a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I agree with Garen Thal on this one: we desperately needed a Cormyr sourcebook back in 3E... We needed a post-war picture of Cormyr badly. Case in point, I know 3 DMs (including me) who ran various Cormyr campaigns since 2001, and each of us took great pains at "filling the gaps" and "three-ify" the Forest Kingdoms. Tilverton anyone? nooooooo! have a 7-year NDA instead, you geeky bastards!

As well, there could have been much Cormyr-specific crunch generated, like a proper 3.5 10-level version War Wizard PrC (at least ONE 3.5 PrC, if not MANY! if the damn Red Wizards, underused Hathran witches, dozen-or-so-in-existence Aglarondan griffonriders, what-the-heck!a-Gold-Dwarf-is-flying! Great Rift hippogriff flyers and bloody Harpers have PrCs, why the heck not the War Wizards? I always have players coming to me and ask "what's the best PrC for a War Wizard," at which point I go in my long-winded explanation of how War Weavers, Unseen Seers, and various other arcane PrCs out there would fit in nicely...) Feats, skill applications, and many, many others could have been added, and might I say, such a book would have had a great success. Everyone who loves the Realms have a little piece of their heart rooting for Cormyr.
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31701 Posts

Posted - 11 Oct 2008 :  01:31:43  Show Profile Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin

quote:
Originally posted by Brian R. James
Same with Lapaliiya, Tashalar, Thindol and Samarach.




Weren't some of those covered in the Shining South sourcebook? The information in there wasn't exactly copious, but still, it was there.

Samarach, Thindol, Tashalar, and Lapaliiya are all detailed in Serpent Kingdoms. Though Shining South does have some brief bits on Lapaliiya.

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arry
Learned Scribe

United Kingdom
317 Posts

Posted - 11 Oct 2008 :  12:03:16  Show Profile Send arry a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Perhaps the collected Sages of Candlekeep could rectify the missing detail for 3e Cormyr?
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Jakk
Great Reader

Canada
2165 Posts

Posted - 17 Oct 2008 :  07:50:56  Show Profile Send Jakk a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by arry

Perhaps the collected Sages of Candlekeep could rectify the missing detail for 3e Cormyr?



I sense a Netbook in the making... I'll gather what I can. Anyone else interested in helping out? I'm not sure how much time I'll have to put in, but I'll see how RL goes.

Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.

If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic.
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Ousia
Acolyte

Denmark
9 Posts

Posted - 16 Dec 2009 :  23:33:31  Show Profile  Visit Ousia's Homepage Send Ousia a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Garen Thal

quote:
Originally posted by Brian R. James

What exactly are you hoping to see in a 3E Cormyr sourcebook that you couldn't get from the many 2E versions? Stats? Otherwise the lore is all there for you to use.

Hoo, boy...

I hate to disagree with my friend and fellow-Brian, here, but I could easily argue that there is more lore missing from the 3E lore than there is present. Because of the fiction that preceded the 2E-3E changes, one of the very obviously lacking things in 3E was Cormyr lore... and that's ignoring the fact that Cormyr, despite being the home of Ed's original Realms campaign, the region that is most developed, and the portion of FR that is most "core-friendly" (with a place for adventurers, a role for every class, the most directly relatable as a "medieval fantasy kingdom"), Cormyr didn't even get the coverage in 2E that it should have gotten.

Now, I'm obviously biased (seeing as I'm the "Cormyr guy" and would like there to be a Cormyr supplement every few years for as long as I can turn the pages of them), but here's some of what could have gone into a 3E Cormyr supplement:

An overview on the Forest Kingdom for core D&D players
One of the things that's always been missing from FR products is a "primer" to bring D&D players into the Realms. Because Cormyr has always fit the core assumptions players (and non-players) have, it's easy to throw a couple of pages out letting people know what it means to play in Cormyr--and how Cormyr can serve as a 'gateway' region into the wider Realms.

Cormyr-Specific Mechanics
Volo's Guide to Cormyr and Volo's Guide to All Things Magical have plenty of magic items specific to Cormyr. Then there's Ilbratha from Sea of Fallen Stars, and room for plenty more material as well, just in terms of magic items.

There's Crown Wards and Sword Herald Refuges and the magic of the Mages Royal, lingering elven magics from the time of Lythlorn and older remnants of Orva, not to mention smaller, never-mentioned settlements.

There's the continuing plagues of Marsember.

There are prestige classes for roles that were never addressed (Crown agents, for one), and way more for those that were addressed wrongly (Purple Dragon knights, War Wizards, Highknights).

There is tons of material that could have been included in such a book, but since we're supposed to ignore the statistical side of things, I'll move on.

What's going on now?
We've got a dead king, a dead princess, an infant heir on the throne, an unwilling regent, a retired and not-dead Royal Magician and his outlander successor. No matter how small you type it, six pages is woefully insufficient to cover these issues even for seasoned Realms fans--who, frankly, only were okay with the level of coverage in FRCS because they (like the members of the FRCS design time) were expecting a sourcebook further down the road to fill in the massive blanks.

There were six novels set in and around Cormyr between its last 2E-coverage and 3E, and people wanted more Cormyr lore during 2E, when they were relegated to a short sourcebook and a travel guide. While I appreciate that amount of coverage, I'd like to have seen something approaching the level of coverage that Waterdeep got in that same period.

Serving the Crown
One of the issues that's never been adequately addressed is what it means when a PC serves the Crown as a Purple Dragon, a War Wizard, a Highknight, or some other agent. What sort of freedoms does she have? What sort of assignments can she expect to receive? What role (and protections) do her comrades have? What sort of campaign is formed when you have just one PC that serves Cormyr? What does it look like when everyone is a servant of the Dragon Throne?

Purple Dragons
On the above note, it took forever for us to get a published listing of PD ranks. Those ranks still don't have direct meaning, because we got them in a chart in a larger book.

We don't know what sort of authority Dragons have in general to make arrests, detain foreigners or suspects, search property, attack adventurers(!), or misbehave. We don't know what the relative ranks stand for other than "I've got a shinier badge than him."

Given the level of interest in Cormyr and the amount of fiction published there, we should be let in on some of these issues by now.

The Nobles
Generally speaking, it would have been nice to finally get a holistic picture of the nobility. What do the various ranks and titles mean in relation to one another, other than greater prestige? What can an earl get away with that a baron can't?

It also would have been great to see a sort of rundown of the noble families--something I know Ed has information on--at the level provided for Waterdeeps houses in the 2E City of Splendors boxed set... or even what was in the 3E City of Splendors: Waterdeep web enhancement.

Adventure Locales
Cormyr is home to Suzail, Marsember, Arabel, the Stonelands, the Marshes of Farsea and Tun, the Vast Swamp, the Hullack Forest, the Goblin Marches, High Horn, Castle Crag, Gnoll pass, and portals to the extraplanar city of Grodd. More than enough places to adventure for an entire campaign and then some. Detailing just a few of these, or even giving DMs two-page spread (a full-page, keyless map and a one-page run down of the sorts of inhabitants there) would have been a glorious addition to FR and to D&D in general.

Oh, and the Haunted Halls of Eveningstar are there, too.

--
I could go on, but I'll stop here.

I'm usually pretty quiet about this issue beyond my general "I like more Cormyr" calls, but I think it has to be said: of all the moves during 3E, WotC squandered a brilliant opportunity in the Realms to bring new players in, detail a long-fallow region, bring the setting up to date with the changes pre-edition shift, bring the game world into line with the increased interest produced by the fiction, show D&D players as a whole that detail is good, provide a great "one-product" campaign book, and overall give readers what they wanted.



I would love to read that book if you were de editor, I am buying if they decide to publish

To be updated
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Hawkins
Great Reader

USA
2130 Posts

Posted - 17 Dec 2009 :  16:42:51  Show Profile  Visit Hawkins's Homepage Send Hawkins a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Maybe we should start a new scroll to cover this instead of high-jacking Nephilim's?

Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)

One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass

"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane

* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
* Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document (PFRPG OGL Rules)
* The Hypertext d20 SRD (3.5 OGL Rules)
* 3.5 D&D Archives

My game design work:
* Heroes of the Jade Oath (PFRPG, conversion; Rite Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 1: Cantrips & Orisons (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 2: 1st-Level Spells (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
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Sandro
Learned Scribe

New Zealand
266 Posts

Posted - 18 Dec 2009 :  08:10:46  Show Profile Send Sandro a Private Message  Reply with Quote
At this point the original thread's five and a half years old -- I don't think anyone's doing any harm by hijacking it.

"Gods, little fishes, and spells to turn the one to the other," Mordenkainen sighed. "It's started already..."
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Hawkins
Great Reader

USA
2130 Posts

Posted - 18 Dec 2009 :  16:19:05  Show Profile  Visit Hawkins's Homepage Send Hawkins a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Sandro

At this point the original thread's five and a half years old -- I don't think anyone's doing any harm by hijacking it.
Lol. I totally didn't notice that.

Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)

One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass

"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane

* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
* Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document (PFRPG OGL Rules)
* The Hypertext d20 SRD (3.5 OGL Rules)
* 3.5 D&D Archives

My game design work:
* Heroes of the Jade Oath (PFRPG, conversion; Rite Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 1: Cantrips & Orisons (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 2: 1st-Level Spells (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
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Knight of the Gate
Senior Scribe

USA
624 Posts

Posted - 18 Dec 2009 :  21:30:06  Show Profile Send Knight of the Gate a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The only 'harm' threadjacking is doing is that it makes searches done on this topic misleading. And (if you're really interested in starting a 3E Cormyr netbook, you'll get more help for it by starting a new thread.

How can life be so bountiful, providing such sublime rewards for mediocrity? -Umberto Ecco
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Brimstone
Great Reader

USA
3183 Posts

Posted - 19 Dec 2009 :  04:22:27  Show Profile Send Brimstone a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Like this?

"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep
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Knight of the Gate
Senior Scribe

USA
624 Posts

Posted - 19 Dec 2009 :  05:20:57  Show Profile Send Knight of the Gate a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone

Like this?



Much like that, yes.

How can life be so bountiful, providing such sublime rewards for mediocrity? -Umberto Ecco
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wildeman
Acolyte

USA
48 Posts

Posted - 18 Nov 2020 :  23:43:53  Show Profile Send wildeman a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Sorry to resurrect an old thread, but I was hoping George could clarify something...

Was Khelben actually one of the Sword Heralds or just an ally?

Thanks
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cpthero2
Master of Realmslore

USA
1764 Posts

Posted - 19 Nov 2020 :  02:32:48  Show Profile  Visit cpthero2's Homepage Send cpthero2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Seeker wildeman,

I'd love to know myself. I remember reading about the Hidden House vaguely in Crown of Fire, but I don't recall it mentioning the Blackstaff being a part of the Sword Heralds. Then again, the Sword Heralds are/were super old, so all things taken into account, it is quite likely that the Blackstaff was a part of that organization.

Best regards,





Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring
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