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Phantom_Lord
Seeker

Pakistan
92 Posts

Posted - 03 Jun 2004 :  13:30:43  Show Profile  Visit Phantom_Lord's Homepage Send Phantom_Lord a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
When and how did Khelben or the Harpers come across this and where can I find the details of such an instance...


Thanks...

Ponka! Kaddu!

George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
6638 Posts

Posted - 03 Jun 2004 :  14:52:31  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
How the Harpers came across the Scepter has never been detailed. Steven Schend just stated in "Cloak & Dagger" that they had it and that Khelben leaked its location to Fzoul and the Zhentarim through sneaky, subtle means.

In real life, the design team for the "Cloak & Dagger" accessory and we few brainstormers who tagged along were in complete agreement that this artifact was obscenely powerful and needed to be nuked - not totally and utterly, as we allowed DMs some wiggle room to re-constitute it and have it come back if they so desired. Basically, we "Rod of Seven Parts"-ed it.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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Sarta
Senior Scribe

USA
505 Posts

Posted - 03 Jun 2004 :  15:23:28  Show Profile Send Sarta a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

In real life, the design team for the "Cloak & Dagger" accessory and we few brainstormers who tagged along were in complete agreement that this artifact was obscenely powerful and needed to be nuked - not totally and utterly, as we allowed DMs some wiggle room to re-constitute it and have it come back if they so desired. Basically, we "Rod of Seven Parts"-ed it.



... kind of like the Gatekeeper's Crystal, eh?

Sarta
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Phantom_Lord
Seeker

Pakistan
92 Posts

Posted - 04 Jun 2004 :  05:35:59  Show Profile  Visit Phantom_Lord's Homepage Send Phantom_Lord a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Mr George Krashos, thanks for that info.

Now if we could only get Mr Steven Schend himself...

Ponka! Kaddu!
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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author

USA
1705 Posts

Posted - 06 Jun 2004 :  03:07:42  Show Profile  Visit Steven Schend's Homepage Send Steven Schend a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Phantom_Lord

Mr George Krashos, thanks for that info.

Now if we could only get Mr Steven Schend himself...



What'd I do? I don't want to be "Rod of Seven Parted"!

What info did you need? I thought George covered it all just fine.

By the by, Ed designed the Gatekeeper's Crystal to do exactly what it did and we just picked it up and used it on Hellgate Keep. Exactly why, I can't say.

Steven
Who hated the Scepter of the Sorcerer Kings for the same reason he never used demons and devils in his game campaigns--too overly powerful and about as subtle as a shovel to the face

For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
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Sarta
Senior Scribe

USA
505 Posts

Posted - 06 Jun 2004 :  04:04:12  Show Profile Send Sarta a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend

By the by, Ed designed the Gatekeeper's Crystal to do exactly what it did and we just picked it up and used it on Hellgate Keep. Exactly why, I can't say.



Oh, no, I wasn't picking on you guys for that. I thought it was a very creative use for it. You also left it broken in three parts and scattered to the winds, hence my rod of seven parts comment.

I guess I was trying to make a comment about the fact that the new novel, "The Last Mythal" has it put back together and being used for no good purpose.

Sarta
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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author

USA
1705 Posts

Posted - 06 Jun 2004 :  18:50:33  Show Profile  Visit Steven Schend's Homepage Send Steven Schend a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Sarta

quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend

By the by, Ed designed the Gatekeeper's Crystal to do exactly what it did and we just picked it up and used it on Hellgate Keep. Exactly why, I can't say.



Oh, no, I wasn't picking on you guys for that. I thought it was a very creative use for it. You also left it broken in three parts and scattered to the winds, hence my rod of seven parts comment.

I guess I was trying to make a comment about the fact that the new novel, "The Last Mythal" has it put back together and being used for no good purpose.

Sarta



Well, only one piece of the GKC got vaulted across the planes, as I recall, so it's definitely recoverable. I wonder if the Mistmaster held onto the one local piece, but I don't recall right now. (Now there's a character of Ed's that's lurked in the backgrounds for years and we could certainly stand to know more about him, but that's a plan for another day.)

I for one am looking forward to seeing what Rich is doing as well. From all the advance comments from Ed and a few others, it sounds like it's going to rock a lot of people's worlds (and not in an RSE sense).

Steven

For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
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Sarta
Senior Scribe

USA
505 Posts

Posted - 06 Jun 2004 :  20:14:31  Show Profile Send Sarta a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend

I wonder if the Mistmaster held onto the one local piece, but I don't recall right now. (Now there's a character of Ed's that's lurked in the backgrounds for years and we could certainly stand to know more about him, but that's a plan for another day.)


That's for sure. The Mistmaster's always been one of my favorite npc's. I couldn't help but notice his shift from Leira worship to Deneir, rather than to say Mystra. Kind of makes you wonder if he chose Deneir in order to help complete Leira's Metatext.

He's become a prominant NPC in my campaign due to a few factors. The pc's are working for him, but I've kept him as enigmatic as possible.

Sarta
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Phantom_Lord
Seeker

Pakistan
92 Posts

Posted - 07 Jun 2004 :  06:10:08  Show Profile  Visit Phantom_Lord's Homepage Send Phantom_Lord a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend

quote:
Originally posted by Phantom_Lord

Mr George Krashos, thanks for that info.

Now if we could only get Mr Steven Schend himself...



What'd I do? I don't want to be "Rod of Seven Parted"!

What info did you need? I thought George covered it all just fine.





Well then thats that.

Ponka! Kaddu!
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Phineas of Oghma
Acolyte

USA
11 Posts

Posted - 31 Aug 2005 :  06:57:56  Show Profile  Visit Phineas of Oghma's Homepage Send Phineas of Oghma a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Sarta
I guess I was trying to make a comment about the fact that the new novel, "The Last Mythal" has it put back together and being used for no good purpose.

Sarta



I definitely want to be spoilered on this, if at all possible, Sarta. The Scepter of the Sorcerer Kings is becoming my new Realms obsession and Cloak & Dagger didn't tell me as much about it as I had hoped? Can you tell me anything about the artifact's use in the aforementioned novel?
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
6638 Posts

Posted - 31 Aug 2005 :  07:52:32  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Sarta was referring to the Gatekeeper's Crystal, used by Sarya in the novel, not the Scepter of the Sorcerer Kings. That bit of Netherese craftsmanship remains scattered throughout Faerūn and the planes.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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Phineas of Oghma
Acolyte

USA
11 Posts

Posted - 31 Aug 2005 :  13:58:00  Show Profile  Visit Phineas of Oghma's Homepage Send Phineas of Oghma a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

Sarta was referring to the Gatekeeper's Crystal, used by Sarya in the novel, not the Scepter of the Sorcerer Kings. That bit of Netherese craftsmanship remains scattered throughout Faerūn and the planes.

-- George Krashos




Curses! Thank you for the clarification!

Edited by - Phineas of Oghma on 31 Aug 2005 14:01:16
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High

Australia
31701 Posts

Posted - 31 Aug 2005 :  14:43:10  Show Profile Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
And for more lore on the Gatekeeper's Crystal, see Volo's Guide to All Things Magical (available as a free download here) as well as the 2e FR adventure Hellgate Keep.

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Edited by - The Sage on 31 Aug 2005 14:46:04
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Osieu
Acolyte

26 Posts

Posted - 02 Sep 2005 :  07:49:13  Show Profile  Visit Osieu's Homepage Send Osieu a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Phantom_Lord

When and how did Khelben or the Harpers come across this and where can I find the details of such an instance...
Thanks...


Scepter of the Sorcerer-Kings is detailed in 2E the Book of Artifacts (or something like that). IIRC, it's once in the possession of the Harper King, a powerful lich mage.

The Harper King was destoryed by Elminster, so it's very likely that El took the Scepter after defeating the lich and left it to the Harpers.

At least that's what I believe.
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Kuje
Great Reader

USA
7915 Posts

Posted - 02 Sep 2005 :  09:00:53  Show Profile Send Kuje a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Osieu

quote:
Originally posted by Phantom_Lord

When and how did Khelben or the Harpers come across this and where can I find the details of such an instance...
Thanks...


Scepter of the Sorcerer-Kings is detailed in 2E the Book of Artifacts (or something like that). IIRC, it's once in the possession of the Harper King, a powerful lich mage.

The Harper King was destoryed by Elminster, so it's very likely that El took the Scepter after defeating the lich and left it to the Harpers.

At least that's what I believe.



Khelben gave it to Fzoul in agreement for the Zhent's not to come west for many years. It was shattered by Fzoul. :)

For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird

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Phineas of Oghma
Acolyte

USA
11 Posts

Posted - 02 Sep 2005 :  14:32:57  Show Profile  Visit Phineas of Oghma's Homepage Send Phineas of Oghma a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje

Khelben gave it to Fzoul in agreement for the Zhent's not to come west for many years. It was shattered by Fzoul. :)


Now that I have my hands on a hard copy of Cloak & Dagger, I'm getting more details. I still can't determine:
  • Where the five pieces may have gone (C&D advises "scattered across the planes")
  • If the texts assume it can be re-assembled
  • Which god/gods fell silent when Fzoul used the Scepter (if stabbing Faram the banelich through the heart is considered a legitimate use of its powers)


Anyone know where I can find out more, if there is more to find? Grammercies in advance!

Edited by - Phineas of Oghma on 02 Sep 2005 14:33:40
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Kuje
Great Reader

USA
7915 Posts

Posted - 02 Sep 2005 :  17:12:32  Show Profile Send Kuje a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Phineas of Oghma

Now that I have my hands on a hard copy of Cloak & Dagger, I'm getting more details. I still can't determine:
  • Where the five pieces may have gone (C&D advises "scattered across the planes")
  • If the texts assume it can be re-assembled
  • Which god/gods fell silent when Fzoul used the Scepter (if stabbing Faram the banelich through the heart is considered a legitimate use of its powers)


Anyone know where I can find out more, if there is more to find? Grammercies in advance!



None of these were ever answered but maybe you can go bug Steven and see if he'll answer. :)

For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
36779 Posts

Posted - 02 Sep 2005 :  22:24:41  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Phineas of Oghma

Now that I have my hands on a hard copy of Cloak & Dagger, I'm getting more details. I still can't determine:
  • Where the five pieces may have gone (C&D advises "scattered across the planes")



Scattered across the planes is as good an answer as any. I'd have one piece in a remote location on the Prime, and the rest scattered across other planes. I'd not expect any pieces to wind up in or near deific Realms, unless a piece was found and brought there by the deity's followers.

quote:
Originally posted by Phineas of Oghma

  • If the texts assume it can be re-assembled



  • I don't believe this has ever been discussed... However, multi-part artifacts are usually quite resilient, and can often be reassembled by simply joining together the pieces.

    quote:
    Originally posted by Phineas of Oghma

  • Which god/gods fell silent when Fzoul used the Scepter (if stabbing Faram the banelich through the heart is considered a legitimate use of its powers)



  • I've been wondering this, myself...

    quote:
    Originally posted by Phineas of Oghma

    Anyone know where I can find out more, if there is more to find? Grammercies in advance!



    Unfortunately, there is next to no information about this plotline beyond that which was in Cloak & Dagger. The tome was one of the last 2E products, and when 3E came out, it was basically ignored and/or shunted into footnote status.

    Now... My muse has awakened. Some thoughts:

    For reassmbling it, trying to find all the pieces could be one hell of an adventure. The pieces could be anywhere -- I'd not be adverse to dropping one somewhere off-Toril but still in Realmspace, if it worked for the campaign. And if you go with the Great Wheel cosmology, a shard could have wound up on one of the other game worlds.

    A particular bit of fun could be if a deity has found at least a part of it, and is trying to collect the rest. It could be an evil deity, planning on using it against a rival, or it could be a good deity, intending to keep it from being misused.

    The reassembly could be a bit trickier... Imagine finding all the pieces, using magic to hold them together, and then having to bathe it in the blood of a divine being!

    Candlekeep Forums Moderator

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    Osieu
    Acolyte

    26 Posts

    Posted - 03 Sep 2005 :  12:34:10  Show Profile  Visit Osieu's Homepage Send Osieu a Private Message  Reply with Quote
    quote:
    Originally posted by Kuje

    quote:
    Originally posted by Osieu

    quote:
    Originally posted by Phantom_Lord

    When and how did Khelben or the Harpers come across this and where can I find the details of such an instance...
    Thanks...


    Scepter of the Sorcerer-Kings is detailed in 2E the Book of Artifacts (or something like that). IIRC, it's once in the possession of the Harper King, a powerful lich mage.

    The Harper King was destoryed by Elminster, so it's very likely that El took the Scepter after defeating the lich and left it to the Harpers.

    At least that's what I believe.



    Khelben gave it to Fzoul in agreement for the Zhent's not to come west for many years. It was shattered by Fzoul. :)


    I mean, that's possibly what happened BEFORE Khelben took the Scepter from the Harpers and made the deal with Fzoul.

    Edited by - Osieu on 03 Sep 2005 12:57:24
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    Steven Schend
    Forgotten Realms Designer & Author

    USA
    1705 Posts

    Posted - 04 Sep 2005 :  00:14:57  Show Profile  Visit Steven Schend's Homepage Send Steven Schend a Private Message  Reply with Quote
    quote:
    Originally posted by Phineas of Oghma

    quote:
    Originally posted by Kuje

    Khelben gave it to Fzoul in agreement for the Zhent's not to come west for many years. It was shattered by Fzoul. :)


    Now that I have my hands on a hard copy of Cloak & Dagger, I'm getting more details. I still can't determine:
    • Where the five pieces may have gone (C&D advises "scattered across the planes")
    • If the texts assume it can be re-assembled
    • Which god/gods fell silent when Fzoul used the Scepter (if stabbing Faram the banelich through the heart is considered a legitimate use of its powers)


    Anyone know where I can find out more, if there is more to find? Grammercies in advance!



    Well, like I've said before, we broke this mainly to acknowledge its existence (as it was written in a 2E core book, not an FR book). Its power levels were horribly unbalanced and broken, and it might've been Julia and Dale and I who wanted to make sure the godly status quo would stay put, now that all 3 books were finally done. Bluntly, I thought it was a bad idea so I found a way in-story to get rid of it and move another story along its path. End of story...or so I thought...

    The Five Pieces Have Gone: Wherever you as a GM want them to go. We advised you scatter them across the planes to avoid the problems the item will engender.

    If you want them to be reassembled, it should be an epic quest just to find the pieces....and if you want them all accessible but not easy....put one each on Faerun, Zakhara, Kara-Tur, Maztica, and three of the unknown lands (FRCS p231) never explored by TSR or WotC. If you need a way to get to other lands, check out Horizon's Sails in Waterdeep; Winter Zulth might have a ship for you, provided you do some things for him as well....

    We'll see ye all in 1412 when they might have found the pieces...and now they need to find magics powerful enough to bind them back together....like the tears of a repentent god mixed in the ashen remains of its creator the Harper King (good luck, there) and a ritual. The only other thing I can think of that'd have the power levels necessary to reforge/rebuild the Scepter might be a Grand Mage wearing the Highfire Crown (making him 14 High Mages in 1).

    Seriously, this should not be a quick and simple adventure or even campaign. What it'll take to put this thing back together should be akin to trying to resurrect a god like Moander or Amaunator.

    No gods fell silent when it was stabbed through Faram, as Fzoul didn't use the powers of the scepter. (You didn't think Khelben would actually give him real command words for that, did you? He set layers of spells on it so it seemed to respond to Fzoul's commands, but in the end, Fzoul simply used it in the most unsubtle but effective way and shoved the smaller end through Faram. Remember folks, you don't always have to use tools the way they're designed...as Manshoon proved when he slew one foe with a citrus spoon in 1315 DR.

    For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
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    DDH_101
    Master of Realmslore

    Canada
    1272 Posts

    Posted - 04 Sep 2005 :  03:53:18  Show Profile  Visit DDH_101's Homepage Send DDH_101 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
    Could someone give some detailed stats on the Scepter of Sorcerer-Kings? I don't remember exactly all it's powers other than the one to disable a deity.

    "Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask
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    Phineas of Oghma
    Acolyte

    USA
    11 Posts

    Posted - 04 Sep 2005 :  07:48:04  Show Profile  Visit Phineas of Oghma's Homepage Send Phineas of Oghma a Private Message  Reply with Quote
    quote:
    Originally posted by Steven Schend

    Well, like I've said before...as Manshoon proved when he slew one foe with a citrus spoon in 1315 DR.



    My profound thanks for this response, Mr. Schend. I don't know what my designs on the Scepter of the Sorcerer-Kings are, but I do know I have been utterly and hopelessly fascinated by it since coming across it in my early adolescent years in the Book of Artifacts. I may want to tell a story with it, or about it, I haven't quite decided, but it resonates strongly with my desire to illustrate in my campaign the relationships forged between deities and between deities and their faithful. This lorekeeper has much to think on.
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    khorne
    Master of Realmslore

    Finland
    1073 Posts

    Posted - 04 Sep 2005 :  08:22:58  Show Profile  Visit khorne's Homepage Send khorne a Private Message  Reply with Quote
    quote:
    Originally posted by Phineas of Oghma

    [quote]Originally posted by Steven Schend

    Well, like I've said before...as Manshoon proved when he slew one foe with a citrus spoon in 1315 DR.




    A citrus spoon? I HAVE to learn more about this!

    If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy
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    warlockco
    Master of Realmslore

    USA
    1695 Posts

    Posted - 04 Sep 2005 :  08:38:42  Show Profile  Visit warlockco's Homepage Send warlockco a Private Message  Reply with Quote
    quote:
    Originally posted by khorne

    quote:
    Originally posted by Phineas of Oghma

    [quote]Originally posted by Steven Schend

    Well, like I've said before...as Manshoon proved when he slew one foe with a citrus spoon in 1315 DR.




    A citrus spoon? I HAVE to learn more about this!




    Sounds like a painful way to die.

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    George Krashos
    Master of Realmslore

    Australia
    6638 Posts

    Posted - 04 Sep 2005 :  12:48:45  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
    Especially if some of the lemon juice from the spoon got in your eye ...

    -- George Krashos

    "Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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    Wooly Rupert
    Master of Mischief
    Moderator

    USA
    36779 Posts

    Posted - 04 Sep 2005 :  14:29:59  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
    quote:
    Originally posted by George Krashos

    Especially if some of the lemon juice from the spoon got in your eye ...

    -- George Krashos




    If someone was stabbing you with a citrus spoon, getting lemon juice in your eye would be the least of your concerns.

    "I'll cut your heart out with a spoon!"
    (later) "I don't get it, cousin. Why a spoon?"
    "Because it's dull! It'll hurt more, you twit!"

    I've always loved that bit.

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    Wooly Rupert
    Master of Mischief
    Moderator

    USA
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    Posted - 04 Sep 2005 :  14:30:42  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
    quote:
    Originally posted by DDH_101

    Could someone give some detailed stats on the Scepter of Sorcerer-Kings? I don't remember exactly all it's powers other than the one to disable a deity.



    It was detailed in the old 2E Book of Artifacts.

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    Dargoth
    Great Reader

    Australia
    4607 Posts

    Posted - 04 Sep 2005 :  14:52:11  Show Profile  Visit Dargoth's Homepage Send Dargoth a Private Message  Reply with Quote
    Who was the Harper King? (Presumably its not related to the Harper Organization)

    *chuckle*

    First the Sceptre of the Sorcerer King and then the Gate Keeper Crystal what is with Steven breaking all of Faeruns toys!

    What exactly does the Sceptre of the Sorcerer Kings do? (I dont have the 2ed book book where its detailed). Is it any worse than the the God slaying Jathiman Dagger detailed in F&P?

    With regard to putting it back together couldnt any deity be able to reassemble it?

    Bane Cyric and Lathander it would be the ones Id suspect to try and reassemble it

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    Misericordia
    Seeker

    Italy
    66 Posts

    Posted - 04 Sep 2005 :  15:22:06  Show Profile  Visit Misericordia's Homepage Send Misericordia a Private Message  Reply with Quote
    The Scepter rebound and massimize any spell or psionic targeted against the wielder.
    9 times per day can heal or harm 2d12 hp, and 1 of this points is permanent gain or loss (with a max of 9 points permanently gained). Once per day can dispel magic automatically; the item to be dispelled must be touched by the scepter, and there's 2 in 6 chance to drain the item as per a rod of cancellation (artifats are immune).
    And can banish the influence of a random chosen God for ten days!

    Omnia sunt communia.
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    Wooly Rupert
    Master of Mischief
    Moderator

    USA
    36779 Posts

    Posted - 04 Sep 2005 :  15:26:49  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
    quote:
    Originally posted by Dargoth

    Who was the Harper King? (Presumably its not related to the Harper Organization)



    He was a lich behind the Harpstars War. I believe this is covered in FOR4 Code of the Harpers.

    quote:
    Originally posted by Dargoth

    *chuckle*

    First the Sceptre of the Sorcerer King and then the Gate Keeper Crystal what is with Steven breaking all of Faeruns toys!


    Good point... What's he going to break in Blackstaff, I wonder?

    quote:
    Originally posted by Dargoth

    What exactly does the Sceptre of the Sorcerer Kings do? (I dont have the 2ed book book where its detailed). Is it any worse than the the God slaying Jathiman Dagger detailed in F&P?


    It was designed by some Netherese to slay gods, but they didn't complete it. I don't recall all of its powers, but when a power is invoked, a random deity loses all influence on Toril (and only Toril) for 10 days -- no answered prayers, no granted spells, nothing.

    quote:
    Originally posted by Dargoth

    With regard to putting it back together couldnt any deity be able to reassemble it?

    Bane Cyric and Lathander it would be the ones Id suspect to try and reassemble it



    Artifacts have usually been something beyond deific influence... A deity may have more resources to devote to finding the pieces and reassembling it, but that's about their only advantage.

    And why would any deity want to reassemble it? Then it could be used -- and they might be the one to lose all Torilian contact for a week.

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    warlockco
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    Posted - 04 Sep 2005 :  19:10:09  Show Profile  Visit warlockco's Homepage Send warlockco a Private Message  Reply with Quote
    I know of one deity (non-canon) in my campaign that would gather up the pieces, never assemble it though, and hide the pieces in a nice safe place.

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