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 Is there a real era equivalent of the Sword Coast?
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Kelcimer
Learned Scribe

USA
128 Posts

Posted - 05 Dec 2021 :  05:50:20  Show Profile Send Kelcimer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by thenightgaunt

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
No one is asking you not to apply logical consistency -- the opposite, in fact: You have to apply ALL factors.



No, you're telling me that I'm wrong to want to apply consistency to the design of a game world. And I can't apply all factors because they aren't real. I can't assume that elven farming techniques would advance what would otherwise be late medieval farming to modern factory farm levels because elves aren't real and so using them is just a random handwave to make whatever you want to work to work.



Thenightgaunt is looking for consistency on ships and has relevant questions as to what that would mean for the rest of society. In the real world we know of many different societies that have existed in many different time periods. We do have a baseline to correlate complexity of ship design with how prosperous a society is. This is ultimately a systems question and it is a fair line of inquiry.

Wooly Rupert, you just seem unhappy about that line of inquiry, seeing the things thenightgaunt is talking about as "a bunch of random stuff that does not necessarily have connection to one another". Seen in this light, your basic suggestion of "Well! if you want to apply consistency on THAT, then you ALSO have to apply consistency on all these other random things that are not necessarily applicable, OTHERWISE you're doing it wrong!" makes a bit more sense. I think you just fail to understand how peoples decision works throughout history when new technologies come along that are unambiguously better AND you fail to understand the systems and prosperity that need to be in place in order to support and justify advanced ship design. In fairness, that is a bit of a complicated subject.

I would say that thenightgaunt has a fairly narrow range of variables he is working to isolate. It doesn't sound like he is trying to create a complex "history of the development of technology and economics in the realms". He is just trying to work out where the realms is currently at in terms of ship building and making sure that the general prosperity and systems of the civilization more or less matches what would be necessary for said ship building.
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Kelcimer
Learned Scribe

USA
128 Posts

Posted - 05 Dec 2021 :  06:00:41  Show Profile Send Kelcimer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hello George Krashos!

quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
I'm not persuaded. The moment is taken away when the DM lazily drops in RW names. Tell the players in their relthor sailing ship that they are being pursued by the Black Kraken pirate fleet in their omarth ships, which are twice their size and have black sails that spell death on the high seas. RW touchstones help some DMs, however they should never be featured in such a way that breaks the immersion of players. Too many FR products have made this mistake over the years.



Forget the names, he's talking about the utility of the keel. What about the utility of the keel that allows a ship to tack into the wind are you unpersuaded by?
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
11163 Posts

Posted - 05 Dec 2021 :  14:26:55  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus

-Dromonds are canonical Forgotten Realms ship styles/designs anyway. As are galleons, junks, kayaks, longships, caravels, carracks, dhows, and a ton of other actual boat styles/designs. That aside, in my experience, it's always been more useful to be relatable to the players, rather than throw in buzzwords for the sake of immersion. Or, when/if you do, have visual aids or take a second or two to explain out of game exactly what a [insert Forgotten Realms buzzword term] actually is.



Yep, that I can agree to as well. Especially the "have visual aids" part if you're not using a regular word. I'd be more inclined to say that someone had a "modified" version of a galley that's more seaworthy in a way that WE havent figured out yet, but that the general look is LIKE a galley. Let's face it, horses had saddles for a long time before the stirrup, but a stirrup might look entirely different in FR in form (not sure how because its a method WE haven't figured out yet but THEY did).

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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thenightgaunt
Acolyte

USA
36 Posts

Posted - 16 Dec 2021 :  04:07:00  Show Profile Send thenightgaunt a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm really annoyed that I forgot that "Ed Greenwood Presents - Elminster's Forgetten Realms" is a thing that was written and that contains a massive amount of mundane lore like this.

There's a relevant quote from page 77.
"Most farming families in the Heartlands till six acres or less, though some own or claim far more. Much land is left to grow wild, as woodlots have proven a vital part of their commerce, providing a source of firewood, poles (from coppicing), and such, and untilled meadows provide handy wild grazing land."

That's definitely a place to start.

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thenightgaunt
Acolyte

USA
36 Posts

Posted - 28 Dec 2021 :  05:22:55  Show Profile Send thenightgaunt a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The answer was England, Stuart to Georgian era.
https://www.sageadvice.eu/if-waterdeep-had-an-equivalent-in-our-real-world-what-city-would-it-be/

To quote Ed answering if Waterdeep has a real world equivalent:

"I try never to do real-world equivalents for the Realms.
If I did, I'd say Stuart- into Georgian-era London, England might be closest.
New York as of Gangs of NY is too crowded and too-large-share-immigrant a population to really fit, but if you're stretching for a US equivalent."
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