Candlekeep Forum
Candlekeep Forum
Home | Profile | Register | Active Topics | Active Polls | Members | Private Messages | Search | FAQ
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

 All Forums
 Forgotten Realms Journals
 General Forgotten Realms Chat
 Wisdom/teachings for children of the Realms
 New Topic  New Poll New Poll
 Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  

Azar
Senior Scribe

764 Posts

Posted - 01 Nov 2021 :  02:22:50  Show Profile Send Azar a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
Hello!

My curiosity is anxious...are there any official (canon?) examples of lessons taught to Forgotten Realms children about the nature of their world? For example: parents that don't want their kids roaming the countryside or streets after dark may say "Be inside when the night shows its face; Shar takes boys and girls that run into her embrace." I'm also open to homebrew material, if you're willing to part with your creation(s).

Stand with anybody that stands right. Stand with him while he is right and part with him when he goes wrong.

Earth names in the Realms are more common than you may think.

bloodtide_the_red
Learned Scribe

USA
222 Posts

Posted - 01 Nov 2021 :  03:32:03  Show Profile  Visit bloodtide_the_red's Homepage Send bloodtide_the_red a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well, Realms Lore is full of lore. So all of that can be taught to kids.

Plenty of books written by Ed Greenwood such as the Volo books an Eliminster presents the Realms are full of lore, often rumors, stories and such told to people.
Go to Top of Page

Ayrik
Great Reader

Canada
7614 Posts

Posted - 01 Nov 2021 :  05:05:12  Show Profile Send Ayrik a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I don't think there are any "schools" for children in the sense we're familiar with. Although wealthier people likely hire tutors and lessons for their children, while professional teachers, instructors, and "academies" are likely found in the large cities to teach specific subjects (music, arts, etc). It's telling that there basically aren't any public libraries, most people are functionally illiterate or semi-literate, they might be able to read a pamphlet or wanted poster or playbill but chances are the only proper books they've read will be some sort of religious canon.

Wizards, priests, sages, and scholars will of course be exposed to more lore from more sources. But it seems likely their esoteric knowledge is the result of years of study (and indoctrination), it's not simple folklore they learned through childhood.

The local temples of the local gods will usually be tended by local priests. Who will likely proselytize and teach their deity's wisdom to all who will listen.

Some places are inhabited by certain creatures - orcs, trolls, undeads, dragons, giants, lycanthropes, elves - which will likely feature prominently in local legends and lores. Likewise, they may be located near some peculiar feature which is an important fixture in their lives.

Some places are frequented by merchants, soldiers, tax-collectors, bandits, bards, tinkers, adventurers, and other travelling itinerants. These will likely have a more wondrous and cosmopolitan knowledge of the larger world beyond. Other places are isolated (by terrain or by stubborn choice), they will know little (and care even less) about anything which happens outside their own village, town, or dale.

Most of the population of the Realms (it is claimed) reside outside cities and towns. They're rural, pastoral, agricultural, even nomadic. Those who must "work for a living" on their crops and livestock are often put to work at a young age and remain far too busy to worry about happenings more than two or three farmsteads down the road. They likely know a lot of local lore (which is mostly gossip about local people and implausibly grandoise stories from the local tavern, lol) and they likely know a great deal about their own vocation - and their children might fantasize about living in a royal kingdom or something - but they really have no other "worldly" lore to pass on.

[/Ayrik]
Go to Top of Page

sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
11169 Posts

Posted - 01 Nov 2021 :  11:47:09  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yeah, I've always found it funny that in a place where the printing press hasn't gained footing yet, everyone can read. I believe it comes down to a thing where they didn't want to have people roleplaying people who couldn't read OR that they didn't think their customer base would accept the idea, but that's my personal belief.

However, the original question is a damned good one. I think it would depend on region, and it would be more the retelling of "folk tales"... which in 2e we used to get a lot of them, each presented in some vague way, and many of us have tried to figure out "the truth behind them". That being said, there would probably also be stories told to children about beings like the night parade in places like Calimshan. In Rashemen, I'd bet the children are taught stories about hags and being way of what your eyes tell you. In Thay, children may be told horror stories about being lax with your slaves and allowing an uprising (for instance, maybe a story about a little girl who liked to style her slave's hair, which allowed her to escape and later cause mischief). In Mulhorand, they may teach the slaves stories about the poor slave that got his freedom... and how he moved out to live in another land with a king who let everyone live free, so long as they paid their CRUSHING taxes, and how the slave ended up dying in a debtor's prison. You will note I'm going very dark with these, because that's what I believe that's the intent of many such "fairy tales" told to kids.... like the boy who cried wolf, it's intended to scare kids into being more honest... or the story and Hansel & Gretel is to teach kids not to trust everyone and don't wander into the woods.

In the end, I'd bet many of these stories are kind of as Ayrik says... "local stories".... kind of how the fairy tales of our world were for a long time. For instance, before we had Snow White and the Seven Dwarves, there were dozens of stories throughout the world of someone who goes to a celebration, leaves something behind, and then is chased down by a lover to find them. In our own world, one of the complaints is that a lot of these stories are now being lost because of the Disney (and later others) adoption of stories and television making one single adaptation that all kids learn. Then there comes the mangling by authors of the stories which had been fairly standard for centuries that have seen multiple rewrites in modern day (for instance, the number of King Arthur adaptations since I was a kid could easily pass 30... so while the "old stories" were varied, they didn't adapt NEAR as often... same thing with Robin Hood, etc...).

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
Go to Top of Page

Azar
Senior Scribe

764 Posts

Posted - 03 Nov 2021 :  23:05:19  Show Profile Send Azar a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by bloodtide_the_red

Well, Realms Lore is full of lore. So all of that can be taught to kids.

Plenty of books written by Ed Greenwood such as the Volo books an Eliminster presents the Realms are full of lore, often rumors, stories and such told to people.



quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik

I don't think there are any "schools" for children in the sense we're familiar with. Although wealthier people likely hire tutors and lessons for their children, while professional teachers, instructors, and "academies" are likely found in the large cities to teach specific subjects (music, arts, etc). It's telling that there basically aren't any public libraries, most people are functionally illiterate or semi-literate, they might be able to read a pamphlet or wanted poster or playbill but chances are the only proper books they've read will be some sort of religious canon.

Wizards, priests, sages, and scholars will of course be exposed to more lore from more sources. But it seems likely their esoteric knowledge is the result of years of study (and indoctrination), it's not simple folklore they learned through childhood.

The local temples of the local gods will usually be tended by local priests. Who will likely proselytize and teach their deity's wisdom to all who will listen.

Some places are inhabited by certain creatures - orcs, trolls, undeads, dragons, giants, lycanthropes, elves - which will likely feature prominently in local legends and lores. Likewise, they may be located near some peculiar feature which is an important fixture in their lives.

Some places are frequented by merchants, soldiers, tax-collectors, bandits, bards, tinkers, adventurers, and other travelling itinerants. These will likely have a more wondrous and cosmopolitan knowledge of the larger world beyond. Other places are isolated (by terrain or by stubborn choice), they will know little (and care even less) about anything which happens outside their own village, town, or dale.

Most of the population of the Realms (it is claimed) reside outside cities and towns. They're rural, pastoral, agricultural, even nomadic. Those who must "work for a living" on their crops and livestock are often put to work at a young age and remain far too busy to worry about happenings more than two or three farmsteads down the road. They likely know a lot of local lore (which is mostly gossip about local people and implausibly grandoise stories from the local tavern, lol) and they likely know a great deal about their own vocation - and their children might fantasize about living in a royal kingdom or something - but they really have no other "worldly" lore to pass on.



Guys, what I had in mind were parables, fables, aesops, aphorisms and the like. I would be shocked if - for example - there wasn't a Realms equivalent to "The Farmer and the Viper"/"The Scorpion and the Frog".

Stand with anybody that stands right. Stand with him while he is right and part with him when he goes wrong.

Earth names in the Realms are more common than you may think.
Go to Top of Page

LordofBones
Master of Realmslore

1425 Posts

Posted - 04 Nov 2021 :  01:32:09  Show Profile Send LordofBones a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thay might have a lot of proverbs and folk tales casting the Simbul as the stereotypical insane, cruel, child-eating wicked witch.
Go to Top of Page

sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
11169 Posts

Posted - 04 Nov 2021 :  11:14:52  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones

Thay might have a lot of proverbs and folk tales casting the Simbul as the stereotypical insane, cruel, child-eating wicked witch.



I doubt that one because people know what she's like, but I would not be surprised if they didn't have a bunch of propaganda that all the witches of Rashemen are hags behind their masks, and that they take the male children who would be a magical threat to their power off to eat.

This is actually a really good topic to discuss, because it can really show how one culture makes a caricature of another. For instance, I can see Cormyrians making stories about Sembians as penny pinchers who end up in binds and can't solve things with their money. Calishites having stories about the ignorant cretins who live beyond their borders. Uthgardt barbarians telling stories of the wise warrior who led a vile wizard into the woods, where the city born wizard didn't know not to go near some den of bears or somesuch. These would be the kind of things that happen in any society (and no, I don't want to go into a real world discussion of this, because it will turn into a fight about north/south, democrat/republican, race, LGBTQ, or something similar).

In addition to "moral" stories involving using different nearby groups that are made caricatures of, I can also see there being of course local stories about some of the more creepy "dungeons" that are near certain communities. For instance, Mulmaster might have a whole range of stories built up around "what's actually in Ironfang Keep, and the children of Damara might have whispered stories about the Rawlinswood being inhabited by demons from ancient Narfell to keep them from wandering into it. There are often the very real threats (for instance drow beneath the dalelands) and then there are perceived threats.... and the DM may know the truth, but the commoners there don't.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas

Edited by - sleyvas on 04 Nov 2021 11:23:08
Go to Top of Page

Eldacar
Senior Scribe

425 Posts

Posted - 04 Nov 2021 :  22:59:07  Show Profile Send Eldacar a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones

Thay might have a lot of proverbs and folk tales casting the Simbul as the stereotypical insane, cruel, child-eating wicked witch.


I mean, child-eating might be questionable. But an insane witch, and arguably cruel/wicked, is not completely off the mark when describing her.

"The Wild Mages I have met exhibit a startling disregard for common sense, and are often meddling with powers far beyond their own control." ~Volo
"Not unlike a certain travelogue author with whom I am unfortunately acquainted." ~Elminster
Go to Top of Page

Ayrik
Great Reader

Canada
7614 Posts

Posted - 05 Nov 2021 :  03:23:52  Show Profile Send Ayrik a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Stories of a reclusive witch who is almost never seen, lives in remote isolation, only comes out at night, and eats unwary small children are somewhat common in European folklores.

But we don't have storm-breathing dragons dive out of the air to snatch our precious animals and precious children away. In front of an entire village of onlookers. Tales of real monsters and real bogeymen predating the localsare probably more frightening than tales of never-/barely-seen angry witch-celebrities from (equally never-/barely-seen) faraway places.

"According to Stephen Stearns, a Yale professor of ecology and evolutionary biology, before the invention of the bicycle, the average distance between the birthplaces of spouses in England was 1 mile. During the latter half of the 19th century, bikes upped the distance men went courting to 30 miles, on average. Scholars have identified similar patterns in other European countries. Widespread use of bicycles stimulated the grading and paving of roads, making way for the introduction of automobiles, trains, and passenger airplanes ..."

Imagine a world where most people aren't likely to look more than a few miles down the road to find their husband or wife. Where their own parents likely came from just a few miles away on the same road. You aren't likely to be very interested in learning or teaching meaningless things from exotic lands when the entire horizon of your own world is so small.

[/Ayrik]
Go to Top of Page

Zeromaru X
Great Reader

Colombia
2249 Posts

Posted - 06 Nov 2021 :  03:54:14  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
By legit Realmslore (from 4e/5e, but, well), the dragonborn of Tymanther and Laerakond do use their ancestors' history as nursery tales for their children. Those stories are crude and harsh, as they are basically retellings of the actual brutal history of the dragonborn race as slaves to the dragon overlords of Abeir. Those stories range from tales of this cunning dragonborn hero who stole food from the Dragon Empress's own Vaults to give to his fellow slaves, to the chilling tales of this dragonborn heroine who used the bones and blood of her father to create a magic weapon to kill that dragon lord, or the tales of the wise dragonborn elders who sacrificed their lives so the other dragonborn slaves could flee from the breeding pits, and so on.

These tales are told to dragonborn children in their formative years and influence their mindset in a fundamental way even as adults. When a problem arises, dragonborn usually look to these tales in search of "traditional answers" ("what my ancestors would do in this kind of situation") instead of trying something new to solve that problem.

You can read a few of these stories in the Brimstone Angels series of novels, specifically in the last 3 novels.

Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world...

Edited by - Zeromaru X on 06 Nov 2021 04:03:05
Go to Top of Page

Azar
Senior Scribe

764 Posts

Posted - 10 Nov 2021 :  17:21:30  Show Profile Send Azar a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I wonder if "Don't judge a book by its cover." takes on a deeper meaning in a world where illusionists and shapeshifters exist. Also: mimics.

Stand with anybody that stands right. Stand with him while he is right and part with him when he goes wrong.

Earth names in the Realms are more common than you may think.
Go to Top of Page

TheIriaeban
Master of Realmslore

USA
1048 Posts

Posted - 10 Nov 2021 :  19:55:15  Show Profile Send TheIriaeban a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I found this in the 2e Complete Book of Dwarves:

"Until the age of 10, young dwarves are cared for within the hearth. During these formative years, they learn to speak and are taught the traditions and history of their clan and stronghold. The children socialize with others daily, often in a special clan nursery, while their parents and grandparents are at work. In the nursery the children are taught the rudiments of their clan's craft. Children from an armorer's clan will play with miniature suits of armor, those from a baker's clan will play with scales and bread dough. They are allowed to follow their natural instincts and are provided toy tools and allowed to dig tunnels and "hidey-holes" in the nursery.

At the age of 10, more formal education begins. For eight hours every day the children learn runes and local history. Training in crafts begins with basic techniques and skills constantly drilled into them. Their education continues until their 25th year."

Gnomes and Halflings would very likely have something similar only a bit more freewheeling given their "not as ridged" racial outlook. Certainly gnomes will instruct their kids on their treatment by the Netherese and halflings who have ancestors from Tethyr will likely talk of Meiritin. They may even have some "tall tales" of far away Luiren.

"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."

My FR writeups - http://www.mediafire.com/folder/um3liz6tqsf5n/Documents
Go to Top of Page

Delnyn
Senior Scribe

USA
669 Posts

Posted - 12 Nov 2021 :  12:05:56  Show Profile Send Delnyn a Private Message  Reply with Quote
IIRC, dwarves tell the tale of Astaroth disguised as a bard. He paid the king a visit and like Midas, every object Astaroth turned to gold. The greedy king invited Astaroth on an extended tour through his kingdom, inviting Astaroth to handle various objects. Sure enough, the king grew extremely wealthy with all the new-found gold.
Unfortunately, the kingdom was invaded. The dwarves fought back as valiantly as they could, but their now-gold armor and weapons not only weighed down the troops, but the soft metal bent too easily under combat conditions. The kingdom fell in short order.

"Gold is nice, but steel keeps the clan and kingdom alive."
Go to Top of Page

Azar
Senior Scribe

764 Posts

Posted - 12 Nov 2021 :  22:02:46  Show Profile Send Azar a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by TheIriaeban

I found this in the 2e Complete Book of Dwarves:

"Until the age of 10, young dwarves are cared for within the hearth. During these formative years, they learn to speak and are taught the traditions and history of their clan and stronghold. The children socialize with others daily, often in a special clan nursery, while their parents and grandparents are at work. In the nursery the children are taught the rudiments of their clan's craft. Children from an armorer's clan will play with miniature suits of armor, those from a baker's clan will play with scales and bread dough. They are allowed to follow their natural instincts and are provided toy tools and allowed to dig tunnels and "hidey-holes" in the nursery.

At the age of 10, more formal education begins. For eight hours every day the children learn runes and local history. Training in crafts begins with basic techniques and skills constantly drilled into them. Their education continues until their 25th year.
"

Gnomes and Halflings would very likely have something similar only a bit more freewheeling given their "not as ridged" racial outlook. Certainly gnomes will instruct their kids on their treatment by the Netherese and halflings who have ancestors from Tethyr will likely talk of Meiritin. They may even have some "tall tales" of far away Luiren.



That is amazing !

Dwarves live on average, what...three-and-a-half times longer than humans? A dwarf that is ten years of age is roughly equivalent to a three year old human ("three and change" if we're being technical).

quote:
Originally posted by Delnyn

IIRC, dwarves tell the tale of Astaroth disguised as a bard. He paid the king a visit and like Midas, every object Astaroth turned to gold. The greedy king invited Astaroth on an extended tour through his kingdom, inviting Astaroth to handle various objects. Sure enough, the king grew extremely wealthy with all the new-found gold.
Unfortunately, the kingdom was invaded. The dwarves fought back as valiantly as they could, but their now-gold armor and weapons not only weighed down the troops, but the soft metal bent too easily under combat conditions. The kingdom fell in short order.

"Gold is nice, but steel keeps the clan and kingdom alive."



Is this your own lore?

Stand with anybody that stands right. Stand with him while he is right and part with him when he goes wrong.

Earth names in the Realms are more common than you may think.
Go to Top of Page

Delnyn
Senior Scribe

USA
669 Posts

Posted - 13 Nov 2021 :  13:26:28  Show Profile Send Delnyn a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Azar

quote:
Originally posted by Delnyn

IIRC, dwarves tell the tale of Astaroth disguised as a bard. He paid the king a visit and like Midas, every object Astaroth turned to gold. The greedy king invited Astaroth on an extended tour through his kingdom, inviting Astaroth to handle various objects. Sure enough, the king grew extremely wealthy with all the new-found gold.
Unfortunately, the kingdom was invaded. The dwarves fought back as valiantly as they could, but their now-gold armor and weapons not only weighed down the troops, but the soft metal bent too easily under combat conditions. The kingdom fell in short order.

"Gold is nice, but steel keeps the clan and kingdom alive."



Is this your own lore?



This is not my lore. The story is from 2e Powers and Pantheons, page 24. I paraphrased the story. Here is the actual quote of the story's moral now that I checked the page: "Gold makes one rich, but steel makes one richer." By the way, Astaroth is an alias for Gargauth.
Go to Top of Page
  Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
 New Topic  New Poll New Poll
 Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Jump To:
Candlekeep Forum © 1999-2022 Candlekeep.com Go To Top Of Page
Snitz Forums 2000