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 Djerad Thymar's famous dragonborns: type/breath?
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Portuguese D. Ace
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Italy
80 Posts

Posted - 16 Aug 2021 :  22:53:35  Show Profile Send Portuguese D. Ace a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
Dear fellow scribes,

I'm trying to include some famous dragonborns (DB for short) in my Djerad Thymar, but I can't find many info on them.

On another scroll I found useful info on who should be Vanquisher in Djerad Thymar (1490ish): Yrjixtilex Kallan (Erin Evans confirmed it)
I read Brimstone Angels years ago, and I can't find which type of dragonborn Kallan is.
The wiki describes it as a dark grey scaled DB, but it does not specify which breath type does he have (dark grey= silver DB? black DB?).

Daardendrien Medrash is described as a russet scales DB, with lightning breath (i assume a bronze DB?)

for:
Verthisathurgiesh Arjhani, I can't find a description.
Kepeshkmolik Uadjit , gray-green scales but no breath.
Kepeshmolik Dumuzi: dark grey scales, lightning breath (blue DB? bronze DB?


Do you have any other useful info on other Djerad Thymar's dragonborns?

Thank you for your help

Please, bring back the Realms. I'm really fed up with the Sword Coast.


===== Since English is not my first language, I pre-emptively apologize for any (grammar) mistake that has been made in my post. In order to help me improve my English, please, point out those mistakes (If you could do it politely, it would be even better!). Thanks! =====

Zeromaru X
Great Reader

Colombia
2101 Posts

Posted - 17 Aug 2021 :  06:18:28  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I don't remember if Erin Evans described Kallan's or Arjhani's breath weapons in any of the novels. Uadjit's is cold breath. In my campaign, Kallan has fire breath, if this helps you.

Also, from 5e's PHB:

quote:
The first dragonborn had scales of vibrant hues matching the colors of their dragon kin, but generations of interbreeding have created a more uniform appearance. Their small, fine scales are usually brass or bronze in color, sometimes ranging to scarlet, rust, gold, or copper-green.


While the 4e PHB says:
quote:
A typical dragonborn's scales can be scarlet, gold, rust, ocher, bronze, or brown. Rarely do an individual's scales match the hue of a chromatic or metallic dragon, and scale color gives no indication of the type of breath weapon a dragonborn uses.


Which means scale color doesn't correlate with their draconic ancestry, at least not if we are talking about current day dragonborn. It's completely legit that a red-scaled dragonborn has a cold breath weapon, for instance. There is also the fact that white-snow scaled dragonborn are actually albinos and are rare among the dragonborn population (like for instance Biri, one of the characters from "Whispers of Venom") -- which means that dragonborn with white dragon heritage may not be white scaled.

That said, the most notable dragonborn from novels that may be still alive in the 1490s, besides those you mentioned, that I remember are:

Verthisathurgiesh Mehen: dull-ocher scales, lightning breath
Daardendrien Balasar :rust-colored scales, cold breath
Daardendrien Nijana (Medrash's sister): acid breath -- which means that even between family members they can have different breath weapons (as Medrash has lightning breath).

Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world...

Edited by - Zeromaru X on 17 Aug 2021 06:22:17
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Portuguese D. Ace
Seeker

Italy
80 Posts

Posted - 18 Aug 2021 :  10:07:44  Show Profile Send Portuguese D. Ace a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X

I don't remember if Erin Evans described Kallan's or Arjhani's breath weapons in any of the novels. Uadjit's is cold breath. In my campaign, Kallan has fire breath, if this helps you.

Also, from 5e's PHB:

quote:
The first dragonborn had scales of vibrant hues matching the colors of their dragon kin, but generations of interbreeding have created a more uniform appearance. Their small, fine scales are usually brass or bronze in color, sometimes ranging to scarlet, rust, gold, or copper-green.


While the 4e PHB says:
quote:
A typical dragonborn's scales can be scarlet, gold, rust, ocher, bronze, or brown. Rarely do an individual's scales match the hue of a chromatic or metallic dragon, and scale color gives no indication of the type of breath weapon a dragonborn uses.


Which means scale color doesn't correlate with their draconic ancestry, at least not if we are talking about current day dragonborn. It's completely legit that a red-scaled dragonborn has a cold breath weapon, for instance. There is also the fact that white-snow scaled dragonborn are actually albinos and are rare among the dragonborn population (like for instance Biri, one of the characters from "Whispers of Venom") -- which means that dragonborn with white dragon heritage may not be white scaled.

That said, the most notable dragonborn from novels that may be still alive in the 1490s, besides those you mentioned, that I remember are:

Verthisathurgiesh Mehen: dull-ocher scales, lightning breath
Daardendrien Balasar :rust-colored scales, cold breath
Daardendrien Nijana (Medrash's sister): acid breath -- which means that even between family members they can have different breath weapons (as Medrash has lightning breath).



Thank you for your help, Zero! It's all very clear now.

I've yet to read the Brotherhood of the Griffon, I hope to find the time soon.

Do you, perchance, know where to find an illustration depicting Djerad Thymar?
I tried online, but no luck.

Please, bring back the Realms. I'm really fed up with the Sword Coast.


===== Since English is not my first language, I pre-emptively apologize for any (grammar) mistake that has been made in my post. In order to help me improve my English, please, point out those mistakes (If you could do it politely, it would be even better!). Thanks! =====
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader

Colombia
2101 Posts

Posted - 18 Aug 2021 :  17:03:49  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
There is none, sadly. As for its description, is like the pyramid of Giza but flat-topped and on top of hundreds of granite pillars (and these are atop a granite platform), so if seen from afar is like the pyramid was floating in the air (all the structure is around 460 mts tall). There is a big hole in one of the sides of the pyramid, to allow the Lance Defenders' flying calvary (dragonborn riding direbats) to enter or leave the city at will. The place is considered one of modern Faerūn wonders and dwarves still can't understand how the dragonborn built that thing.

As for your original question, here are some notable citizens of Djerad Thymar, but depending on which year you're playing, some may be dead.

https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Category:Inhabitants_of_Djerad_Thymar

Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world...

Edited by - Zeromaru X on 18 Aug 2021 19:29:08
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
10757 Posts

Posted - 18 Aug 2021 :  18:37:42  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X

There is none, sadly. As for its description, is like the pyramid of Giza but flat-topped and on top hundreds of granite pillars (and these are atop a granite platform), so if seen from afar is like the pyramid was floating in the air (all the structure is around 460 mts tall). There is a big hole in one of the sides of the pyramid, to allow the Lance Defenders' flying calvary (dragonborn riding direbats) to enter or leave the city at will. The place is considered one of modern Faerūn wonders and dwarves still can't understand how the dragonborn built that thing.

As for your original question, here are some notable citizens of Djerad Thymar, but depending on which year you're playing, some may be dead.

https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Category:Inhabitants_of_Djerad_Thymar



Is there a map of it? I ask because I know it says "Pyramid", but its also in an area with ziggurats (step pyramids). I always pictured it in my head as being a ziggurat and not a flat sided pyramid like the one for giza (which would also explain the flat top).

EDIT: NM, just reread the entry in the campaign guide... this makes me inclined to think not step pyramid

Resting on this foundation are hundreds of massive
stone pillars, each 50 feet in diameter, that
support an enclosed, four-sided structure vaguely
resembling a pyramid. However, the four walls do not
rise to a point, but rather to a flat, upper level exposed
to the elements.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas

Edited by - sleyvas on 18 Aug 2021 18:46:39
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader

Colombia
2101 Posts

Posted - 18 Aug 2021 :  19:27:38  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well, the modern Djerad Thymar was build using the remains of a former Djerad "Thymar" that was the capital of Tymanchebar while on Laerakond (I guess it had a different name back then), and the ruins of Nanna-Sin's god tomb (that was a ziggurat). If we go by the accounts of the Spellplague that we do know, the former capital of Tymanchebar may have fallen into Unther like a meteor and destroyed Nanna-Sin's tomb, among other places. Which means that even if the dragonborn used the tomb and the djerad as the basis for the current Djerad Thymar, they had to built it from scratch.

Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world...

Edited by - Zeromaru X on 18 Aug 2021 19:31:21
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
10757 Posts

Posted - 20 Aug 2021 :  21:35:29  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Just because the original description of the city was just a little ... basic, and at the same time it was something that sounds like its pretty quickly written up without exactly thinking about sizes, etc.... plus because for some weird reason, I enjoy playing with blender to make 3d visuals of cities.... I decided to try and make my own visual of Djerad Thymar. Links to the base pictures below (they can be made to look better with blurring effects and things, as I've seen others do)

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1XDDWTNGGY05CNYtiL3IDIACa3h23uO50/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1bn3r7KH5nkfwsUoZE71o7mmYeon6uZw7/view?usp=sharing

As I did this, I made some notes to myself. In order to make the city not look extremely squat and ugly, I actually reduced the number of pillars. That's because they specifically say that all these pillars are 50 feet around... so bigger than most houses. Where I took that was that these pillars are like towers, bit with the stairs on the outside. They're hollow, and they're very tall. For this drawing, each pillar would be 50 foot around, but with a height of 600 feet. This makes them about half the height of the empire state building, to give you some comparison (so still taller than most skyscrapers in most cities). In order to maintain strength, I picture that this 600 feet isn't like a house, and there's 20 feet between each "floor" in general (and each floor could probably house 8 or more dragonborn). In this drawing, I ended up using 41 pillars, and at the bottom of each pillar, I also put a step pyramid that I figure might be the better market spots (i.e. not just a tent). Thus, just living in the pillars, roughly a third of the population could reside, not including the market floor, the catacombs at the bottom, and the pyramid at the top where most are said to live.

I also didn't like the description of the base, so I put it into a 3 step, step pyramid, but with stairways to go up spread all around, which would force invaders into a very long path to get to the top (of course flyers would have an easier path, but I picture that many of these pillars might have ballistae and such for that instance. The base step at the bottom is 1500 feet wide, and the two steps above it are 80 feet wide each (making the market floor 1320 feet wide).

The 3 step pyramid at the bottom of each pillar makes the base 90 feet wide, and there's 200 feet from the center of one tower to the center of a tower directly to its north, south, east or west..... and 100x100 feet to another pillar that's NE, SE, NW, SW of it). Thinking on that view, it would make a good view to use for a game map with some cleanup, so I'm grabbing that (the little black dots on the base are meant to be arrow slits or places to pour oil from, and I just make black cubes to make the drawing quickly).

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1cZ5QL5VUcrYdTYlYU5UI9cEP72VnkC0D/view?usp=sharing


The pyramid at the top is 1250 x1250 feet at it base, and 390 feet tall before it goes flat. The flat area is 440 feet by 440 feet. This would be a side view of the city, which someone might be able to use for something like a map.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1bm2ri3xrPLQypS5El2qG6aQzND5p1MfO/view?usp=sharing

Anyway, IF the city had more population, I could see it being more spread out... its only 30 thousand people, so its still only as big as most suburban towns on the outskirts of major cities that most people have never heard of in America.... but concentrated into a small area that's using expansion upward versus outward. So, the whole city is confined within an area that's roughly 1/3 of a mile x 1/3 of a mile x 1/3 of a mile. I imagine the fields surrounding them however would be farmed, etc.... in order to support this large of a population is such a small area.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader

Colombia
2101 Posts

Posted - 21 Aug 2021 :  02:51:39  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
You know, I was just wondering about Djerad Thymar myself. But, about another topic. I was wondering about which parts of the city were from Nanna-Sin's god tomb, and which parts were from the original Djerad Thymar from Abeir. So, I began to read about the other dragonborn realms we know about: Relmaur and Harglast (both in Laerakond), and it seems all dragonborn cities are either subterranean or were made inside of mountains (to tell the truth, this is also the case with the dragonborn from 4e core).

Which implies that any surviving structure from the original Djerad Thymar may have been relocated either inside the City-Bastion (the pyramid) or in the Catacombs.

quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

I decided to try and make my own visual of Djerad Thymar. Links to the base pictures below (they can be made to look better with blurring effects and things, as I've seen others do)


Oh, many thanks! This is really useful to me really! I'm bad describing things, so visual aids can always enhance my campaigns. And I have other uses in mind for this, as well


quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas


I also didn't like the description of the base, so I put it into a 3 step, step pyramid, but with stairways to go up spread all around, which would force invaders into a very long path to get to the top (of course flyers would have an easier path, but I picture that many of these pillars might have ballistae and such for that instance.


Your depiction of the platform reminds me of an actual Sumerian ziggurat, so one can say that the platform was part of the God-Tomb.

quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

Anyway, IF the city had more population, I could see it being more spread out... its only 30 thousand people, so its still only as big as most suburban towns on the outskirts of major cities that most people have never heard of in America.... but concentrated into a small area that's using expansion upward versus outward.


Currently (as in the 1490s) the city has around 50 thousand inhabitants, because at some point between 1479 and 1486, a lot of dragonborn from Laerakond learned about Tymanther and decided to live there. This number is still relatively low compared to other cities in the Realms.

And yes, the land surrounding Djerad Thymar has been farmed, and there is even a town (unnamed in canon) in the shores of Ash Lake that serves as Djerad Thymar's port, that may be counted as part of the city as well.

Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world...
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
10757 Posts

Posted - 21 Aug 2021 :  15:40:36  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Oh, I reread my description above... 1500 foot wide base, with each of the two steps being 80 feet wide.... and first I did some bad subtraction, but then I also forgot "2 sides dummy".... so market floor is 1500 - (4x80) = 1180 feet wide/long, not 1320.

that being said, they very well have only two sides of the base that are steps, and the other two sides are 200 feet tall and not used as a path in/out of the city. This area would be "uncovered" by the pyramid at the top and may be considered a more slummy area (i.e. where poor non-dragonborn visitors can rent tents, etc...

and yes, my thoughts were that the base might have been from the original ziggurat. I was originally going to try and decorate it up (I was going to try and take minis made by people that are 3d and actually make them flatten out by dropping one dimension to width like 3% normal and use them to make mosaics), but then I realized..... from the distance I was pulling my screenshot, I wouldn't see it (heyll, even my "arrowslits" look more like
obscure black decoration, but I had to make them exceptionally thick or the program just washed them out).

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas

Edited by - sleyvas on 21 Aug 2021 15:51:26
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader

Colombia
2101 Posts

Posted - 21 Aug 2021 :  16:47:15  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I believed the black stuff were some decorations, lol. Also, I guess you forgot to add the great hexagonal window in the pyramid, used by the bat riders to leave and enter the pyramid.

I assume the window is on the same side the first ramp is, as in the novels the window can seen from the same side you see the ramp. And the window is big enough to be seen from afar.

Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world...

Edited by - Zeromaru X on 21 Aug 2021 17:01:24
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
10757 Posts

Posted - 21 Aug 2021 :  22:12:07  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X

I believed the black stuff were some decorations, lol. Also, I guess you forgot to add the great hexagonal window in the pyramid, used by the bat riders to leave and enter the pyramid.

I assume the window is on the same side the first ramp is, as in the novels the window can seen from the same side you see the ramp. And the window is big enough to be seen from afar.



hmmm, let me see if I can add that in 3d... booleans can be a pain, but that might not be too bad. So, just a big hexagonal opening in the side of the pyramid?

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader

Colombia
2101 Posts

Posted - 21 Aug 2021 :  23:50:54  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yeah, it was just a big hexagonal window in one side of the pyramid, near the Lance Roost where the bats live. This means near the summit of the pyramid.

Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world...
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
10757 Posts

Posted - 22 Aug 2021 :  03:28:25  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
kind of basic, but I put in the hexagon, and then I lessened its width and turned it "black" to look like there's darkness inside. Actually the boolean went very smoothly. I guess I'm finally starting to get the hang of some of the slightly more advanced things.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rlTmy_lZZAUyZ7uJabMclvNu9eUco35i/view?usp=sharing

With that going as well as it did... I may actually play around with doing booleans with all those "arrow slots" sometime tomorrow just for the hell of it. See what I can make it look like. If it actually looks good, I'll post another and may try to dress it up. Might try making some symbology using iokharic text as well, but won't spend too much more time on it.


Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas

Edited by - sleyvas on 22 Aug 2021 03:32:15
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
10757 Posts

Posted - 22 Aug 2021 :  17:11:24  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hmm, booleans work much better for me in the new blender. Added a circular bit of text around the hexagon up top, and some Iokharic text in a straight line on the pyramid (one says something like "Dragons enter Upon Risk of Death" and the other something like "Live Live Tymanchebar, Home of the Vayemniri"). Then, because I remembered I had made some lance defenders at one point, I copied on in and did some quick coloring, and then made 5 or 6 copies and showed them flying around. In the program, the further out that you go, the more blurry it is, so got a couple far away and a couple closer shots. If you do use them in something, let me know just because I'd like to see it, but you're more than welcome to play with, modify, and or use any drawing I've made.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1nW8lwed79y7W0zepk2sn4I8RGyWasDJx/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/14PD6EuKxBq__A-cMX5UoQCiORZkS4-iu/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/16-LamEez-eoaG5TzywHLVDrkIuy9MCbc/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Qu8J4Lt1gwy-JEbLmoVYi8NP5nzAcA_q/view?usp=sharing

Oh, and the "arrowslits" in the base.... they may as well be places where catapults, cannons, ballistae, boiling oil, acid etc... are based on the size, with maybe the ability to rapidly close them with rock seals if necessary. The real arrowslits you wouldn't see.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas

Edited by - sleyvas on 22 Aug 2021 17:18:46
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader

Colombia
2101 Posts

Posted - 23 Aug 2021 :  03:05:03  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well, I don't know how to use that program, so if I decide to use those images, they will be used as you shared them. I do like to use them if I ever finish my Guide to Tymanther,

Anyways, I can't read the text around the Lance Roost's door, but reading the text near the "base" of the City-Bastion, did you wrote that in English with the Iokharic font, right? This is my approximation to Tymantheran Draconic (all words are from old canonic sources):

"Thaluvaerostymanchebar, arivayemniriokarthel"

Thaluvaeros can be translated as "long live", but will be more accurately translated as "live in my memories". So, "Long Live Tymanchebar" or "Live in my memories, Tymanchebar", are valid translations.

Arivayemniriokarthel is literally "home of the vayemniri".

Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world...
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
10757 Posts

Posted - 23 Aug 2021 :  13:35:42  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X

Well, I don't know how to use that program, so if I decide to use those images, they will be used as you shared them. I do like to use them if I ever finish my Guide to Tymanther,

Anyways, I can't read the text around the Lance Roost's door, but reading the text near the "base" of the City-Bastion, did you wrote that in English with the Iokharic font, right? This is my approximation to Tymantheran Draconic (all words are from old canonic sources):

"Thaluvaerostymanchebar, arivayemniriokarthel"

Thaluvaeros can be translated as "long live", but will be more accurately translated as "live in my memories". So, "Long Live Tymanchebar" or "Live in my memories, Tymanchebar", are valid translations.

Arivayemniriokarthel is literally "home of the vayemniri".



Well, that's easy enough to change, and yes, that was in English. I tell you what, just in case you do EVER want to play with this, I'm going to put this up on thingiverse, because in this rare instance.... except for the mounted dragonborn adds that I put in place, I created everything myself from scratch. I will go ahead and make the above text changes, grab a shot of it with that, then put it on thingiverse. Then I'll reply back with that link.

As far as the program I use, its blender. Its free, just google blender install. You will probably need a computer with about 16 gigs or more of ram though. You can just load the .blend file. Just to note, if you for instance, just wanted to grab a single pillar with its base and stick it on a cube and then import a dragonborn from some other STL that I or someone else made on thingiverse, and put that on a regular old cube for "ground", you can export that as an STL file, and you can load that into microsoft's paint3d (another free program) and EASILY paint the objects for a picture. I actually do this for fun sometimes to relax while watching something on TV, and I've also had "competitions" against my stepdaughter for who can paint the better version of something (she enjoyed it a couple years ago, but she's entering teen years and is getting moody). Not to push you to do it, just I never realized how fun it was until someone encouraged me to try.

EDIT: Well, needed to check the file size. Its too big to upload on thingiverse. So, I just grabbed a few extra pictures. See below.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1yzOIvjXSi2vxa-8JmlVgETrpaACeMXD_/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/12BxDuoKQjIjYq83NcOBtK2mmD4boERuE/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1zQ4s-gVt_dSedwIKPHScfbHB2FiOBGtC/view?usp=sharing


Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas

Edited by - sleyvas on 23 Aug 2021 14:18:59
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader

Colombia
2101 Posts

Posted - 23 Aug 2021 :  19:16:26  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
First, I must have to apologize, because I'm going to make a change again, xDD I had forgotten that the Tymantheran dialect of Draconic changes some hard consonants into nasal and elongated consonants. Meaning, a tymantheran dragonborn will say "arivayemniriocharthel" instead of "arivayemniriokarthel". In a nutshell, you may have to change the "k" for a "ch" if you want to have it "closer to [old] canon",

(Yeah, besides helping me to improve my English, D&D also helped me to learn some useless stuff, like D&D Draconic )

So, to make the work not as pointless, here is the translation of the other phrase to Tymantheran (I could decipher it once I sat on the PC):

"Dragons do not enter upon risk of death" should be "Darastrish thrikviraka loreatkorthloreat" (Darastrish is Tymantheran for Classic Draconic "Darastrix"). This can be translated as "Dragons (or Tyrants; Tymantheran uses the same word for both terms) are not welcome under risk of death". That the verb "to die" (loreat) is repeated twice means that there is a emphasis: the vayemniri are serious about this warning.

Also, seeing the second picture, I may have forgotten to mention that the City-Bastion (the pyramid) is hollow, with atriums and plazas rising from the granite base all the way to the ceiling (as described in The Captive Flame). I guess you may have to color part of the "inferior" side of the pyramid with black to represent this, but I don't know how hard would be to do that, however.

quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
You will probably need a computer with about 16 gigs or more of ram though.



Stuff like this makes me realize the implications of living in a third world country. My PC is considered "very good" by the standards of my country, but I still lack 10 gigas of ram to use that program...

Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world...

Edited by - Zeromaru X on 23 Aug 2021 19:18:41
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
10757 Posts

Posted - 24 Aug 2021 :  13:54:20  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X

First, I must have to apologize, because I'm going to make a change again, xDD I had forgotten that the Tymantheran dialect of Draconic changes some hard consonants into nasal and elongated consonants. Meaning, a tymantheran dragonborn will say "arivayemniriocharthel" instead of "arivayemniriokarthel". In a nutshell, you may have to change the "k" for a "ch" if you want to have it "closer to [old] canon",

(Yeah, besides helping me to improve my English, D&D also helped me to learn some useless stuff, like D&D Draconic )

So, to make the work not as pointless, here is the translation of the other phrase to Tymantheran (I could decipher it once I sat on the PC):

"Dragons do not enter upon risk of death" should be "Darastrish thrikviraka loreatkorthloreat" (Darastrish is Tymantheran for Classic Draconic "Darastrix"). This can be translated as "Dragons (or Tyrants; Tymantheran uses the same word for both terms) are not welcome under risk of death". That the verb "to die" (loreat) is repeated twice means that there is a emphasis: the vayemniri are serious about this warning.

Also, seeing the second picture, I may have forgotten to mention that the City-Bastion (the pyramid) is hollow, with atriums and plazas rising from the granite base all the way to the ceiling (as described in The Captive Flame). I guess you may have to color part of the "inferior" side of the pyramid with black to represent this, but I don't know how hard would be to do that, however.

quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
You will probably need a computer with about 16 gigs or more of ram though.



Stuff like this makes me realize the implications of living in a third world country. My PC is considered "very good" by the standards of my country, but I still lack 10 gigas of ram to use that program...



A lot of people still don't have 16 gigs of ram (my wife and daughter have 6 and 8), so don't feel bad. I just work in IT and I work on graphics for fun, so I'm always keeping a decent system (my current laptop that I just got has 32 gigs of ram, and it was only $900 which surprised the hell out of me).

On the changes, I want to thank you, because you confirmed something I was wondering about, which is why I was wondering if there was a map. I thought it might be hollow, but the description in the campaign guide and player's guide were both "unclear".... as in it could be both ways. That of course makes some of these pillars even taller, and that could make for an interesting build to make. It actually shouldn't be too hard as I can play with boolean'ing out the middle of the pyramid by simply copying it and making a smaller version (since I think I've finally figured that out, at least when not converting meshes of text that I try to boolean). I can then make "balconies" out of cubes that I then remove the centers from. I could then have flyers on the inside of the pyramid.

Since you just made it more fun... I'm gonna think on the next steps and produce something in a day or two. I may clean up the pillars too and use actual doors, etc...

By the way, adding text of any kind to the city is easy as pie, so if there's any other types of "statements" that you might see them putting on the city.... any kinds of symbols on the pyramids (a sun, a moon, stars, a dragon head, etc...)... name it off and I'll see what I can do. Sometimes its more about seeing what you can learn by trying something than it is about the actual task you're given. I may not be able to accomplish the task, but it's still something to play with, and may improve the outcome.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader

Colombia
2101 Posts

Posted - 24 Aug 2021 :  15:47:24  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

On the changes, I want to thank you, because you confirmed something I was wondering about, which is why I was wondering if there was a map.


There is no map, official or fanon (that I'm aware of). This is why I think that it's a shame WotC cancelled the article about Tymanther they had planed for Dragon Magazine...

quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Since you just made it more fun... I'm gonna think on the next steps and produce something in a day or two. I may clean up the pillars too and use actual doors, etc...


Well, there are balconies and there are plazas and atriums (these two seem to be on the pillars), and all is connected by bridges, catwalks and stairs. The balconies are big enough to serve as the clan enclaves, although IIRC only the wealthiest clans have their enclaves in the City-Bastion (I guess the less fortunate clans have the live in the Market Floor or in the populated tunnels of the Catacombs). The novels describe the City-Bastions as "not for those who are afraid of heights". The Vanquisher and the Lance Barracks/Roost are located at the top of the pyramid, but inside of it (however, the Lance Barracks also extends to the outside part of the top of the pyramid).

I hope this can help.

quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
By the way, adding text of any kind to the city is easy as pie, so if there's any other types of "statements" that you might see them putting on the city.... any kinds of symbols on the pyramids (a sun, a moon, stars, a dragon head, etc...)... name it off and I'll see what I can do. Sometimes its more about seeing what you can learn by trying something than it is about the actual task you're given. I may not be able to accomplish the task, but it's still something to play with, and may improve the outcome.


IIRC, the symbiology is inside the enclaves. I don't remember anything in the outside side of the pyramid. But I'll think on something.

Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world...
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sleyvas
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USA
10757 Posts

Posted - 24 Aug 2021 :  16:58:06  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Oh, good point on the Bridges and stairs on the inside of the pyramid between balconies I'd imagine there may be balconies around the central pillar as well that the outside balconies might attach to making a veritable "web" on the interior of this thing. That could be fun.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Portuguese D. Ace
Seeker

Italy
80 Posts

Posted - 01 Sep 2021 :  14:35:33  Show Profile Send Portuguese D. Ace a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Sorry for the late reply. it's been a rough week.

Sleyvas, Zero, thank you for the enormous help.
I hoped you had a drawing because the description of DT is so peculiar that I imagined someone would have tried to draw it.

Nontheless, Sleyvas, thank you so much. I checked this scroll in the middle of our last session and your creation in blender became the ceneterpiece of this week's cliffhanger.

Zero, thank you for your help and all the info.
My players are going to enter DT this week and i feel they can stay there for a while. if, perchance, you had any other source of information to suggest, that would be great.


Also, since sadly i didn't have the time to read the brotherhood of the griffon during the last week, could any of you tell me which kind of character/personality does Medrash have?

Thank you for your help!

Please, bring back the Realms. I'm really fed up with the Sword Coast.


===== Since English is not my first language, I pre-emptively apologize for any (grammar) mistake that has been made in my post. In order to help me improve my English, please, point out those mistakes (If you could do it politely, it would be even better!). Thanks! =====
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader

Colombia
2101 Posts

Posted - 01 Sep 2021 :  17:32:05  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well, it depends in what year you're playing. In the novels he was still considered "young and idealist" (early to mid-twenties by the time of Ashes of the Tyrant/The Devil You Know). That said, he is a very mature person, calm, composite, very honorable and dedicated. He can be a bit of a worrywart and a little narrow-minded, however. He is also very dedicated to his gods (he started as a worshiper of Torm, but by the end of The Spectral Blaze, he was also a worshiper of Bahamut). If you're playing in the 1490s, he will be in his early thirties, and I guess he should have grown up and perhaps he will be more open to new ideas, as this was happening by the end of The Spectral Blaze.

Now that we have revived this topic, I wonder if @sleyvas has advanced in his design of Djerad Thymar.

EDIT: Grammar

As for Djerad Thymar, I guess you could read its entry on the wiki? I tried to be as completist as the available info allowed me. If you need more info on something, like a "chaokarthel" (taverns) or NPCs or shops, just ask

Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world...

Edited by - Zeromaru X on 02 Sep 2021 05:18:23
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Portuguese D. Ace
Seeker

Italy
80 Posts

Posted - 02 Sep 2021 :  10:16:56  Show Profile Send Portuguese D. Ace a Private Message  Reply with Quote
We're set in 1492 so he would be in his 30s. I imagined him as a boastful dragonborn (since being a dragon-killer is not an everyday task), but since you said he's very composite, I'll realign with your description (and I'll try to make time to read the Brotherhood!).

I've read everything in the wiki, and I plan on a second read before next session. Any kind of additional info is very welcome!


EDIT:

Question time! Did the wall erected with the Breath of Petron during the final battle endure the later years?
The book says that Geshthax isn't dead, and that Tam Zawad could heal him.
Narhanna says that if Geshthax is healed, the Breath would take back the wall.
Mira suggests that Tam could heal him back after the battle.

Then we know nothing about the wall (aside that two entrances for gates are created with it, one that faces the mountains, one that faces the sea).

Is it still there? or did Tam heal Geshthax and the wall is gone?

In my opinion, a Shestandeliath would never ask for his life back, if it meant that the protection erected with the Breath would be gone.
All thing considered, Unther and Tymanther ar still at war. it would make no sense for Geshthax or Narhanna to ask for a cure, right?

Please, bring back the Realms. I'm really fed up with the Sword Coast.


===== Since English is not my first language, I pre-emptively apologize for any (grammar) mistake that has been made in my post. In order to help me improve my English, please, point out those mistakes (If you could do it politely, it would be even better!). Thanks! =====

Edited by - Portuguese D. Ace on 02 Sep 2021 15:04:16
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader

Colombia
2101 Posts

Posted - 02 Sep 2021 :  16:39:47  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The boastful one would be his best friend, Balasar, who helped Medrash during the battle with the dragons, and also got merit and fame.

About the Wall, I guess is up to us to deal with it. Depending on your game, Unther may be still a threat to the Vayemniri, and they may have decided to leave the wall just in case.

As for any other help, let me see. Were the players invited to Djerad Thymar by an individual dragonborn? Or on behalf of a clan? Are they going on their own? Your answer will determine if they stay in the Market Floor or if they go up into the City-Bastion.

EDIT:
Something to take into account is that not all chaorkarthels accept non-dragonborn clientele. I guess there may be a racist element there, but there is also one of necessity. Canonically, dragonborn can't hold strong liquors, so chaorkarthels sells either watered-down spirits or spiced tea (actually, chaorkarthel literally means "Tea house"). Watered-down drinks will not be well received by humans and demihumans (specially dwarves, lol), while the spices are way too strong for humans and demihumans. So, only a few chaorkarthels do sell stuff more to the tastes of non-dragonborn. A few even have inn-services and stuff. Guess, these commodities will be a bit expensive compared to dragonborn-only services, given the extra effort (perhaps 5% - 10% pricier than the standard prices for such thing).

Talking about money, while tymantherans do use the common coins of other lands, they also have their own currency. While this is mentioned in the novels, the actual tymantheran coins are never named, so we don't have canon info about them. In my campaign, I use the following (hope it will be of help to you):

quote:

Originally, Tymanther had no coinage system. Having originated from an enslaved nation, bartering was the main method of trade, and is still in use in the farming villages of the more traditionalist clans, located far away from the cities. The dragonborn adopted the coinage system of the surviving Untheri when they began to trade with other countries, and eventually developed their own currency. Copper "rashaks" (based on the Chessentan bits) are roughly equivalent in value to 2 coppers from other lands, silvers are called "ornaks", gold coins are known as "auraks" and platinum coins are called "uxaks". All coins are made of "pure" metal (gold coins, for instance, are made with a silver alloy, but the coin is over nine-tenths gold) and a standard size to hold their value in other places. The tymantherans also use trade bars, called "thanodaks", made of electrum for durability.


Edit 2:
I don't use electrum pieces in my games, but if you use them, that coin would be called "nodak", and would be a bit rare in Tymanther. Perhaps a new coin made to trade with Waterdeep or something.

Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world...

Edited by - Zeromaru X on 02 Sep 2021 20:22:10
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Portuguese D. Ace
Seeker

Italy
80 Posts

Posted - 03 Sep 2021 :  09:11:42  Show Profile Send Portuguese D. Ace a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X

The boastful one would be his best friend, Balasar, who helped Medrash during the battle with the dragons, and also got merit and fame.


Noted, thank you!

quote:

About the Wall, I guess is up to us to deal with it. Depending on your game, Unther may be still a threat to the Vayemniri, and they may have decided to leave the wall just in case.



I think this is the case: the war with Unther is still going strong.

quote:

As for any other help, let me see. Were the players invited to Djerad Thymar by an individual dragonborn? Or on behalf of a clan? Are they going on their own? Your answer will determine if they stay in the Market Floor or if they go up into the City-Bastion.


I thought about this as well. My party accidentally saved a Lance Scout that was sent into Unther in an espionage mission. he was the sole survivor, and the fact that he's coming back could be crucial.
therefore they'd be welcomed in the City Bastion.
Moreover, they just survived an encounter with an unknown brown dragon in the Black Ash Plains: that's why I was eager to introduce a proper dragon hunter as Medrash.
The dragon killed a lot of people in my party's caravan (they're a travelling circus), so they might want revenge and I'm willing to give them a proper hand.

quote:

EDIT:
Something to take into account is that not all chaorkarthels accept non-dragonborn clientele. I guess there may be a racist element there, but there is also one of necessity. Canonically, dragonborn can't hold strong liquors, so chaorkarthels sells either watered-down spirits or spiced tea (actually, chaorkarthel literally means "Tea house"). Watered-down drinks will not be well received by humans and demihumans (specially dwarves, lol), while the spices are way too strong for humans and demihumans. So, only a few chaorkarthels do sell stuff more to the tastes of non-dragonborn. A few even have inn-services and stuff. Guess, these commodities will be a bit expensive compared to dragonborn-only services, given the extra effort (perhaps 5% - 10% pricier than the standard prices for such thing).




This is super interesting, i forgot about their inability to hold alcohols. I feel the changes of the last few years, with the insitution of the human clan, could have changed their habits a bit, even pushed some "racist" views away. Vayemnri are very honorable, i feel the help from Namshita's people could have spurred them to be more inclusive.

quote:

Talking about money, while tymantherans do use the common coins of other lands, they also have their own currency. While this is mentioned in the novels, the actual tymantheran coins are never named, so we don't have canon info about them. In my campaign, I use the following (hope it will be of help to you):

quote:

Originally, Tymanther had no coinage system. Having originated from an enslaved nation, bartering was the main method of trade, and is still in use in the farming villages of the more traditionalist clans, located far away from the cities. The dragonborn adopted the coinage system of the surviving Untheri when they began to trade with other countries, and eventually developed their own currency. Copper "rashaks" (based on the Chessentan bits) are roughly equivalent in value to 2 coppers from other lands, silvers are called "ornaks", gold coins are known as "auraks" and platinum coins are called "uxaks". All coins are made of "pure" metal (gold coins, for instance, are made with a silver alloy, but the coin is over nine-tenths gold) and a standard size to hold their value in other places. The tymantherans also use trade bars, called "thanodaks", made of electrum for durability.


Edit 2:
I don't use electrum pieces in my games, but if you use them, that coin would be called "nodak", and would be a bit rare in Tymanther. Perhaps a new coin made to trade with Waterdeep or something.



Super useful, thanks! I didn't think about coinage at all, in this instance. I think i will give them some war-related nicknames, to underline a war-like economy/propaganda. I really want the gold coins to be like a "Turtle", to honour Vivesh Nannari, and maybe a silver could be a "Devil's Daughter", or something like that, to recognize the role that Fari had in the battle of DT (and considering the alloy you suggested... it could also be a cool wink to her heterochromia).

Please, bring back the Realms. I'm really fed up with the Sword Coast.


===== Since English is not my first language, I pre-emptively apologize for any (grammar) mistake that has been made in my post. In order to help me improve my English, please, point out those mistakes (If you could do it politely, it would be even better!). Thanks! =====
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader

Colombia
2101 Posts

Posted - 03 Sep 2021 :  18:59:03  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I made this compilation on dragonborn culture and stuff some time ago. I don't know if you have already read it, but if not, it can be useful:
http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=22750

This is all canon stuff. I have expanded it a lot in my home game, and if you need something of that, just ask.

quote:
Originally posted by Portuguese D. Ace

I thought about this as well. My party accidentally saved a Lance Scout that was sent into Unther in an espionage mission. he was the sole survivor, and the fact that he's coming back could be crucial.
therefore they'd be welcomed in the City Bastion.


Yeah, they will be invited into that Lance Scout's clan's enclave as honored guests. Have you decided what clan he is from?

And with this, I assume there is no dragonborn among the players.

quote:
Originally posted by Portuguese D. Ace

Moreover, they just survived an encounter with an unknown brown dragon in the Black Ash Plains: that's why I was eager to introduce a proper dragon hunter as Medrash.
The dragon killed a lot of people in my party's caravan (they're a travelling circus), so they might want revenge and I'm willing to give them a proper hand.


This is an excellent idea. And yes, I guess Medrash and Balasar would have the status of living legends, and would be the first option for many in cases of dragon attacks.

quote:

This is super interesting, i forgot about their inability to hold alcohols. I feel the changes of the last few years, with the insitution of the human clan, could have changed their habits a bit, even pushed some "racist" views away. Vayemnri are very honorable, i feel the help from Namshita's people could have spurred them to be more inclusive.



Mmmm... yesn't? I mean, it's only been 5 years since the dragonborn actively began to live with humans who are also considered "Vayemniri" (before that, they may have accepted a minority of tieflings, as citizens, but they were not Vayemniri). I guess that while things may be more open now, there will be still a big number of traditionalists with narrow-minded actitudes. I mean, the Platinum Cadre won many battles for Tymanther during the Dragon War, but 8 years later they were still treated with prejudice.

On the other hand, yes, I guess that there will be more open acts of inclusion in the streets. Maybe a bigger number of chaorkarthels open to non-dragonborn, as well as Mulani humans in charges of authority, more tieflings in visible roles, and places where members of the Platinum Cadre can gather without fear of being attacked on the streets (and such attacks being considered crimes and actually properly deal by the Adjudicators).

quote:

Super useful, thanks! I didn't think about coinage at all, in this instance. I think i will give them some war-related nicknames, to underline a war-like economy/propaganda. I really want the gold coins to be like a "Turtle", to honour Vivesh Nannari, and maybe a silver could be a "Devil's Daughter", or something like that, to recognize the role that Fari had in the battle of DT (and considering the alloy you suggested... it could also be a cool wink to her heterochromia).



Well, I don't think they may credit Fari for what she did. Not properly, anyways. Perhaps, like the next generation or so, but not yet. The traditions of the Vayemniri are hard coded, and they only have been forced to open-mindness recently (5 years ago). Dragonborn can be as stubborn as dwarves (they actually get along with dwarves because of their commitment to traditions and stuff).

That said, in my game the common dragonborn call the copper coins "toads" (obsploaks), that is a derogatory term for dragons in Tymantheran culture (per Whisper of Venom); and gold coins "Tyrants" (darasaks), that is another way to say "dragon" in Tymantheran draconic. Never made up a nickname for silver coins, so "devil's daughters" (urkotharvraaks) would be fitting.

Also, turtles (tsaparijaks) would be a good name for platinum coins. I mean, "I have gonna use the turtle" is like saying "I have gonna use the $100 bill"

Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world...

Edited by - Zeromaru X on 03 Sep 2021 19:22:55
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