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Lord Karsus
Great Reader

USA
3736 Posts

Posted - 21 Mar 2021 :  02:52:01  Show Profile Send Lord Karsus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

Still doesn't tell us much. If they'd cut down to a skeleton crew and are regrowing it. Again, not pushing for one way or another, its just I hear things like "the game is more popular than ever" and I truly wonder if there's more people playing than there were in say the 90's and 2000's. That's how I judge popularity. Not monetary income.


-Agreed. I don't honestly believe that D&D (or tabletop role-playing games in general) is more popular now than it was in the 70s/80s/90s heyday, but I think that the perception of it (along with other nerdy things, like comic books especially) has radically changed since then and it's okay to admit that you play. Even as recent as like in the early 2000s, in my experience, saying you played D&D would get side-eye, not so much maybe something negative as much as something weird and extremely geeky. Now, apparently, not so much.

(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)

Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium

Edited by - Lord Karsus on 21 Mar 2021 02:52:32
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Diffan
Great Reader

USA
4425 Posts

Posted - 21 Mar 2021 :  05:14:38  Show Profile Send Diffan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by keftiu

quote:
Originally posted by Diffan

quote:
Originally posted by keftiu

the 4e faithful like me and Zeromaru resent the Second Sundering



.....ahem...



There are dozens of us!



Honestly, I'm not sure lol
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
36779 Posts

Posted - 21 Mar 2021 :  14:53:12  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus

quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

Still doesn't tell us much. If they'd cut down to a skeleton crew and are regrowing it. Again, not pushing for one way or another, its just I hear things like "the game is more popular than ever" and I truly wonder if there's more people playing than there were in say the 90's and 2000's. That's how I judge popularity. Not monetary income.


-Agreed. I don't honestly believe that D&D (or tabletop role-playing games in general) is more popular now than it was in the 70s/80s/90s heyday, but I think that the perception of it (along with other nerdy things, like comic books especially) has radically changed since then and it's okay to admit that you play. Even as recent as like in the early 2000s, in my experience, saying you played D&D would get side-eye, not so much maybe something negative as much as something weird and extremely geeky. Now, apparently, not so much.



I am inclined to think D&D and RPGs are more popular than ever. We've got celebrities who say they've played, it's popped up in popular TV shows, there are multiple successful D&D podcasts out there... The success of things like Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings, and Game of Thrones has gone a long way towards making D&D more popular.

The biggest indicator for me is where we can buy D&D stuff now. When I first got into D&D, you had to look for hobby shops that catered to modelers and RC people, and then find that one shelf all the way in the back, for any D&D stuff, or you had to find the gaming section of a comic book store. If neither of those places had what you needed, you had to find an ad in Dragon and then send a check or money order to someone to get your material.

I spent years trying to find FR4 The Magister, before discovering eBay.

Now, though? Gaming stores are a thing, there's a gazillion websites serving gaming needs, there's new RPG stuff on Kickstarter every day, Amazon will deliver gaming material to your door, and even places like Target and Wal-Mart carry gaming material. Granted, Target and Wal-Mart generally only have the basic boxed sets and some dice, but still, that's a far cry from what it was during my entry into the gaming world back around 1987.

I'll not say that D&D is mainstream or anything, but it's come a long way since 2000 or so.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore

1621 Posts

Posted - 21 Mar 2021 :  18:04:03  Show Profile Send Gyor a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus

quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

Still doesn't tell us much. If they'd cut down to a skeleton crew and are regrowing it. Again, not pushing for one way or another, its just I hear things like "the game is more popular than ever" and I truly wonder if there's more people playing than there were in say the 90's and 2000's. That's how I judge popularity. Not monetary income.


-Agreed. I don't honestly believe that D&D (or tabletop role-playing games in general) is more popular now than it was in the 70s/80s/90s heyday, but I think that the perception of it (along with other nerdy things, like comic books especially) has radically changed since then and it's okay to admit that you play. Even as recent as like in the early 2000s, in my experience, saying you played D&D would get side-eye, not so much maybe something negative as much as something weird and extremely geeky. Now, apparently, not so much.



Its way more popular then it used to be,they are making alot of money to the point where WotC is now more profitable then Hasbro's other divisions,not just because of MtG either, D&D's growth rate out did MtG.

https://icv2.com/articles/news/view/47698/wotc-makes-more-money-hasbros-toy-business

Its absolutely more popular then 3e now, never mind 4e,possibly even AD&D even.
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore

1621 Posts

Posted - 21 Mar 2021 :  18:07:11  Show Profile Send Gyor a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus

quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

Still doesn't tell us much. If they'd cut down to a skeleton crew and are regrowing it. Again, not pushing for one way or another, its just I hear things like "the game is more popular than ever" and I truly wonder if there's more people playing than there were in say the 90's and 2000's. That's how I judge popularity. Not monetary income.


-Agreed. I don't honestly believe that D&D (or tabletop role-playing games in general) is more popular now than it was in the 70s/80s/90s heyday, but I think that the perception of it (along with other nerdy things, like comic books especially) has radically changed since then and it's okay to admit that you play. Even as recent as like in the early 2000s, in my experience, saying you played D&D would get side-eye, not so much maybe something negative as much as something weird and extremely geeky. Now, apparently, not so much.



I am inclined to think D&D and RPGs are more popular than ever. We've got celebrities who say they've played, it's popped up in popular TV shows, there are multiple successful D&D podcasts out there... The success of things like Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings, and Game of Thrones has gone a long way towards making D&D more popular.

The biggest indicator for me is where we can buy D&D stuff now. When I first got into D&D, you had to look for hobby shops that catered to modelers and RC people, and then find that one shelf all the way in the back, for any D&D stuff, or you had to find the gaming section of a comic book store. If neither of those places had what you needed, you had to find an ad in Dragon and then send a check or money order to someone to get your material.

I spent years trying to find FR4 The Magister, before discovering eBay.

Now, though? Gaming stores are a thing, there's a gazillion websites serving gaming needs, there's new RPG stuff on Kickstarter every day, Amazon will deliver gaming material to your door, and even places like Target and Wal-Mart carry gaming material. Granted, Target and Wal-Mart generally only have the basic boxed sets and some dice, but still, that's a far cry from what it was during my entry into the gaming world back around 1987.

I'll not say that D&D is mainstream or anything, but it's come a long way since 2000 or so.



There is also a $100 million block buster movie set in the Forgotten Realms being shot this Spring.
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore

1621 Posts

Posted - 21 Mar 2021 :  18:15:05  Show Profile Send Gyor a Private Message  Reply with Quote
https://comicbook.com/gaming/amp/news/dungeons-dragons-magic-the-gathering-crossover-set-release-date/

Interestingly they noted the same stuff I did, but they seem to believe it means more Forgotten Realms sets are coming. That is certainly possible, it could become a yearly replacement for Core Sets, although if they did I would think they'd hit other D&D settings instead of doing FR again, but I still personally believe it means a Faerun World Campaign Book.
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scererar
Master of Realmslore

USA
1618 Posts

Posted - 23 Mar 2021 :  04:17:52  Show Profile Send scererar a Private Message  Reply with Quote
It would be cool if they did do another book, but I doubt it at this point.
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader

USA
3736 Posts

Posted - 24 Mar 2021 :  00:28:26  Show Profile Send Lord Karsus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

I am inclined to think D&D and RPGs are more popular than ever. We've got celebrities who say they've played, it's popped up in popular TV shows, there are multiple successful D&D podcasts out there... The success of things like Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings, and Game of Thrones has gone a long way towards making D&D more popular.

The biggest indicator for me is where we can buy D&D stuff now. When I first got into D&D, you had to look for hobby shops that catered to modelers and RC people, and then find that one shelf all the way in the back, for any D&D stuff, or you had to find the gaming section of a comic book store. If neither of those places had what you needed, you had to find an ad in Dragon and then send a check or money order to someone to get your material.

I spent years trying to find FR4 The Magister, before discovering eBay.

Now, though? Gaming stores are a thing, there's a gazillion websites serving gaming needs, there's new RPG stuff on Kickstarter every day, Amazon will deliver gaming material to your door, and even places like Target and Wal-Mart carry gaming material. Granted, Target and Wal-Mart generally only have the basic boxed sets and some dice, but still, that's a far cry from what it was during my entry into the gaming world back around 1987.

I'll not say that D&D is mainstream or anything, but it's come a long way since 2000 or so.


-It's all much easier to find, absolutely. The internet will do that. I'll amend my initial statement; I don't know if it's more popular than it was in its 70s/80s/90s heyday or not, but it's way more accepted. I started playing around 2000 or so and the novels were always pretty plentiful and all bunched together in the Sci-Fi/Fantasy section but not so much the actual gaming material. In the big bookstores (Barnes & Noble, Waldenbooks, Borders, B Dalton, those last three are some names I haven't heard in a long time), there wasn't a D&D section. They were either in like the graphic novel/anime section or the game/puzzle/cards/whatever else section. Now, most of those places are closed lol but Barnes & Noble, the only remaining one by me, it has a big D&D section.

-I think the marketing has been very successful to take away the stigma that existed around it even as recently as a decade ago or so, when I started playing it. That goes with comics, and anime, and basically all that stuff that got us made fun of and beat up by bullies in elementary/junior high school. The nerds, as they say, have inherited the earth.

quote:
Originally posted by Gyor

Its way more popular then it used to be,they are making alot of money to the point where WotC is now more profitable then Hasbro's other divisions,not just because of MtG either, D&D's growth rate out did MtG.

https://icv2.com/articles/news/view/47698/wotc-makes-more-money-hasbros-toy-business

Its absolutely more popular then 3e now, never mind 4e,possibly even AD&D even.


-Not supporting or disproving your argument since I have no real interest in going through financial statements and portfolios, but money isn't always the best metric for measurement; Incredibles 2 grossed more than My Fair Lady (even after adjusting for inflation), and one is a culturally significant movie that has been preserved, yada, yada, yada, and the other is Incredibles 2.

(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)

Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium

Edited by - Lord Karsus on 24 Mar 2021 00:56:07
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keftiu
Senior Scribe

656 Posts

Posted - 24 Mar 2021 :  00:48:05  Show Profile Send keftiu a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The big change; the hobby is about a thousand times more diverse than it used to be.

4e fangirl. Here to queer up the Realms.
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Wendolyn
Seeker

56 Posts

Posted - 24 Mar 2021 :  01:06:17  Show Profile Send Wendolyn a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Isn't D&D obviously more popular than it ever was? I've been playing since the 1990s and I've never encountered so much interest and widespread appeal in D&D as I have these days. I'm sure Wizards and Hasbro are doing incredibly, from a financial point of view. 5e is a great edition and very popular. Not saying that earlier editions weren't also great, or that I like everything that's been done, but I think it is beyond debate whether or not 5e and Hasbro have been successful.

Part of the reason for D&D's recent and incredible success is likely due to factors beyond Hasbro's control. The rise of podcasts have allowed people who didn't know about D&D to experience what it is like to play, for the first time. Critical Role is huge, as well as twitch streaming of games. The TV show Stranger Things also brought D&D to a wide audience. And I think following Game of Thrones and the rise of high budget genre fiction TV has also benefited D&D's appeal to mainstream audiences. 5e has benefited from these trends. I also think that D&D promises a social experience that doesn't necessarily involve staring at screens, which I think appeals to lots of people, even parents. I'm seeing more and more after-school programs highlighting D&D. What a wonderful time for the hobby! And it is also becoming more diverse, as scribe Keftiu says, which is sorely needed.
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore

1621 Posts

Posted - 24 Mar 2021 :  18:22:10  Show Profile Send Gyor a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wendolyn

Isn't D&D obviously more popular than it ever was? I've been playing since the 1990s and I've never encountered so much interest and widespread appeal in D&D as I have these days. I'm sure Wizards and Hasbro are doing incredibly, from a financial point of view. 5e is a great edition and very popular. Not saying that earlier editions weren't also great, or that I like everything that's been done, but I think it is beyond debate whether or not 5e and Hasbro have been successful.

Part of the reason for D&D's recent and incredible success is likely due to factors beyond Hasbro's control. The rise of podcasts have allowed people who didn't know about D&D to experience what it is like to play, for the first time. Critical Role is huge, as well as twitch streaming of games. The TV show Stranger Things also brought D&D to a wide audience. And I think following Game of Thrones and the rise of high budget genre fiction TV has also benefited D&D's appeal to mainstream audiences. 5e has benefited from these trends. I also think that D&D promises a social experience that doesn't necessarily involve staring at screens, which I think appeals to lots of people, even parents. I'm seeing more and more after-school programs highlighting D&D. What a wonderful time for the hobby! And it is also becoming more diverse, as scribe Keftiu says, which is sorely needed.




People keep forgetting so did Big Bang Theory.
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John Daker
Seeker

USA
78 Posts

Posted - 24 Mar 2021 :  18:50:18  Show Profile Send John Daker a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Gyor
People keep forgetting so did Big Bang Theory.


True, but Big Bang Theory was very much a show about "nerds" despite humanizing those nerds and making them relatable to normies, and that fit with preexisting stereotypes about D&D (which is why the show's writers used D&D to begin with). The current phenomenon, with Stranger Things, streams, etc., isn't just about destigmatizing nerds and their love of D&D; for the most part, "nerdiness" isn't part of the equation in these new series at all.
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore

1621 Posts

Posted - 01 Apr 2021 :  20:21:50  Show Profile Send Gyor a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by John Daker

quote:
Originally posted by Gyor
People keep forgetting so did Big Bang Theory.


True, but Big Bang Theory was very much a show about "nerds" despite humanizing those nerds and making them relatable to normies, and that fit with preexisting stereotypes about D&D (which is why the show's writers used D&D to begin with). The current phenomenon, with Stranger Things, streams, etc., isn't just about destigmatizing nerds and their love of D&D; for the most part, "nerdiness" isn't part of the equation in these new series at all.



The Kids of the series are very much nerds.
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader

USA
2708 Posts

Posted - 02 Apr 2021 :  00:05:31  Show Profile Send CorellonsDevout a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I would say that D&D has become less "niche" than it used to be, thanks to streams like Critical Role.

I agree with Wooly though and am remaining somewhat skeptical: they're using the setting as a backdrop--and perhaps as a lure to fans established fans as a way of saying "we haven't forgotten you", but they throw things out or add things in on a dime, so...

Sweet water and light laughter
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Azar
Master of Realmslore

1279 Posts

Posted - 02 Apr 2021 :  00:42:35  Show Profile Send Azar a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout

I would say that D&D has become less "niche" than it used to be, thanks to streams like Critical Role.


For better and for worse.

Stand with anybody that stands right. Stand with him while he is right and part with him when he goes wrong.

Earth names in the Realms are more common than you may think.
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keftiu
Senior Scribe

656 Posts

Posted - 02 Apr 2021 :  01:00:38  Show Profile Send keftiu a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Azar

quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout

I would say that D&D has become less "niche" than it used to be, thanks to streams like Critical Role.


For better and for worse.



What does this mean? I’ve got my own complaints with that crew, but the massive influx of new players it’s brought is a positive for the hobby as a whole.

4e fangirl. Here to queer up the Realms.
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Irennan
Great Reader

Italy
3802 Posts

Posted - 02 Apr 2021 :  02:05:50  Show Profile Send Irennan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
@keftiu Out of curiosity, what is it that you don't like about them? I personally tried to watch their stream and couldn't get behind it, but I can't put a finger on what prevented me from enjoying their stuff.

Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things.

Edited by - Irennan on 02 Apr 2021 02:06:08
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader

USA
2708 Posts

Posted - 02 Apr 2021 :  02:28:31  Show Profile Send CorellonsDevout a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I actually really like Critical Role. I decided to check it out when Explorer's Guide to Wildemont came out, and I have really enjoyed watching both campaigns.

Sweet water and light laughter
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Azar
Master of Realmslore

1279 Posts

Posted - 03 Apr 2021 :  04:31:32  Show Profile Send Azar a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by keftiu

quote:
Originally posted by Azar

quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout

I would say that D&D has become less "niche" than it used to be, thanks to streams like Critical Role.


For better and for worse.



What does this mean? I’ve got my own complaints with that crew, but the massive influx of new players it’s brought is a positive for the hobby as a whole.



For better: more exposure.
For worse: the setting of unrealistically high standards.


  • Good on Critical Role's DM for channeling his passion into the creation of so many visual aids, but most people play with books, paper, pencil, and dice (with the occasional handful of miniatures to help make sense of combat). Time and money are greater luxuries for the rest of us.
  • Most people aren't as photogenic/telegenic, vocally talented and/or classically/industry trained as the primary cast; there's an obvious performative element to the show absent from a typical session of D&D.
  • Campaign tempos tend to fluctuate despite our best efforts and interests wax and wane. Generally speaking, you're not going to witness the same level of engagement from session to session...for the players and certainly to any outside observers.
  • Then, there's the issue of long-term campaign stability being far from a universal guarantee. The cast members of Critical Role are financially stable, romantically stable and they have a rather large incentive to stay on in the form of an audience one million plus strong.
  • Finally, I'd wager that the majority of DMs don't have a production team that works to maximize their appeal.


Yes, I know that Matt once spoke about realistic levels of expectation in this hobby, but it is easy to overlook a single announcement.

Stand with anybody that stands right. Stand with him while he is right and part with him when he goes wrong.

Earth names in the Realms are more common than you may think.
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see
Learned Scribe

235 Posts

Posted - 07 Apr 2021 :  21:18:37  Show Profile Send see a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Still doesn't tell us much. If they'd cut down to a skeleton crew and are regrowing it. Again, not pushing for one way or another, its just I hear things like "the game is more popular than ever" and I truly wonder if there's more people playing than there were in say the 90's and 2000's. That's how I judge popularity. Not monetary income.


Data direct from Hasbro/WotC was all in dollar terms. In those terms, D&D's biggest year ever was 2018, until it was 2019, until it was 2020.

As far as unit sales, there isn't an available source, but we can compare sales to those of the book industry as a whole with the USA Today archive of top-150 weekly bestsellers, and Amazon's archive of top-100 annual sellers in books. I went through and did that a few months back.

In the USA Today list, 5e products have vastly outperformed 3e, 3.5, and 4e products, on the level of Tasha's being as big a bestseller as those editions' PHBs, while the 5e PHB had more bestseller weeks than all those editions' books combined.

On the Amazon list, the only D&D products that have ever made the whole-year top 100 sellers in book lists were 5e products, with the 5e PHB doing so in 2017, 2018, 2019, and 2020. Rather few books of any kind ever manage the sales to achieve the Amazon whole-year top 100 for four years in a row, being major cultural phenomena (Harry Potter, Twilight, Hunger Games), established perennial standards ("Goodnight, Moon", "What to Expect When You're Expecting"), or classics that have made school curricula ("1984", "To Kill a Mockingbird").

Now, of course, it's hard to determine if sales are matched by actual play, but it seems unlikely that people are buying PHBs in huge numbers to not play, you know?
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
6641 Posts

Posted - 08 Apr 2021 :  13:20:28  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I criticise my kids for watching YouTube videos of people playing games that they can play themselves. I tried to watch Critical Roll once. Lasted 2 minutes. I then went to watch some paint dry. Did I mention I found it ever so boring ...?

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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Wendolyn
Seeker

56 Posts

Posted - 08 Apr 2021 :  15:36:52  Show Profile Send Wendolyn a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by see

quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Still doesn't tell us much. If they'd cut down to a skeleton crew and are regrowing it. Again, not pushing for one way or another, its just I hear things like "the game is more popular than ever" and I truly wonder if there's more people playing than there were in say the 90's and 2000's. That's how I judge popularity. Not monetary income.


Data direct from Hasbro/WotC was all in dollar terms. In those terms, D&D's biggest year ever was 2018, until it was 2019, until it was 2020.

As far as unit sales, there isn't an available source, but we can compare sales to those of the book industry as a whole with the USA Today archive of top-150 weekly bestsellers, and Amazon's archive of top-100 annual sellers in books. I went through and did that a few months back.

In the USA Today list, 5e products have vastly outperformed 3e, 3.5, and 4e products, on the level of Tasha's being as big a bestseller as those editions' PHBs, while the 5e PHB had more bestseller weeks than all those editions' books combined.

On the Amazon list, the only D&D products that have ever made the whole-year top 100 sellers in book lists were 5e products, with the 5e PHB doing so in 2017, 2018, 2019, and 2020. Rather few books of any kind ever manage the sales to achieve the Amazon whole-year top 100 for four years in a row, being major cultural phenomena (Harry Potter, Twilight, Hunger Games), established perennial standards ("Goodnight, Moon", "What to Expect When You're Expecting"), or classics that have made school curricula ("1984", "To Kill a Mockingbird").

Now, of course, it's hard to determine if sales are matched by actual play, but it seems unlikely that people are buying PHBs in huge numbers to not play, you know?



Thanks for digging into the data and doing this research. Confirms my intuitions that 5e was doing well, but I didn't realize it was this successful. While I don't like everything Wizards has done in recent years, on the whole I appreciate that they've brought so many new people into the hobby. A larger audience for our Candlekeep authors on the DMsguild!
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Wendolyn
Seeker

56 Posts

Posted - 08 Apr 2021 :  15:39:48  Show Profile Send Wendolyn a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

I criticise my kids for watching YouTube videos of people playing games that they can play themselves. I tried to watch Critical Roll once. Lasted 2 minutes. I then went to watch some paint dry. Did I mention I found it ever so boring ...?

-- George Krashos



I too have never watched Critical Roll. I just really struggle to stay focused on podcasts, twitch streams, interviews etc. I much prefer reading sourcebooks, like the excellent Jergal: the Lord of the End of Everything, which had me rapt. Nevertheless, I'm glad Matt Mercer and crew are doing what they're doing and bringing so many into our wonderful hobby.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
36779 Posts

Posted - 08 Apr 2021 :  16:01:37  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

I criticise my kids for watching YouTube videos of people playing games that they can play themselves. I tried to watch Critical Roll once. Lasted 2 minutes. I then went to watch some paint dry. Did I mention I found it ever so boring ...?

-- George Krashos



I don't know if it's because of my years on dialup or something else, but I've a weird aversion to watching videos online. I'll do the occasional music video, but aside from that, if I can't open the video in one tab and listen whilst active in another, I'm not interested.

Obviously, I consider streaming services to be a different category.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore

1621 Posts

Posted - 17 Apr 2021 :  15:04:54  Show Profile Send Gyor a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Fizban might be a Planeswalker in the AFR, which means he might be in FR and even might end up statted in the hypothetical Faerun World Campaign Guide book.
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist

USA
11686 Posts

Posted - 17 Apr 2021 :  15:31:15  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Gyor

quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus

quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

Still doesn't tell us much. If they'd cut down to a skeleton crew and are regrowing it. Again, not pushing for one way or another, its just I hear things like "the game is more popular than ever" and I truly wonder if there's more people playing than there were in say the 90's and 2000's. That's how I judge popularity. Not monetary income.


-Agreed. I don't honestly believe that D&D (or tabletop role-playing games in general) is more popular now than it was in the 70s/80s/90s heyday, but I think that the perception of it (along with other nerdy things, like comic books especially) has radically changed since then and it's okay to admit that you play. Even as recent as like in the early 2000s, in my experience, saying you played D&D would get side-eye, not so much maybe something negative as much as something weird and extremely geeky. Now, apparently, not so much.



Its way more popular then it used to be,they are making alot of money to the point where WotC is now more profitable then Hasbro's other divisions,not just because of MtG either, D&D's growth rate out did MtG.

https://icv2.com/articles/news/view/47698/wotc-makes-more-money-hasbros-toy-business

Its absolutely more popular then 3e now, never mind 4e,possibly even AD&D even.



Thank you. Work has heated up recently, so I hadn't seen this response until now. THAT is interesting data. Haven't read the whole article yet, so going back to it.



Just to note later in the article, adjusting for inflation, sales may be less than they were 20 years back. Of course, that's for all lines of their products, and I'd bet Pokemon doesn't sell like it used to. This is a good article to read, and it shows more people buying things since the downturn of 4e and the initial release of 5e, but that may be people hearing "hey, its good, you should check it out again". It does provide me hope though that the hobby isn't dying (which as I've noted, I have been surprised the last few years to find more young kids interested in gaming).

The last time Hasbro reported separate numbers for sales by Wizards of the Coast was back in 2001, when WotC coffers were bulging from its sales of the Pokemon CCG, for which it had a license. Here’s another crazy number: adjusted for the inflation, WotC sales have actually gone down since then. Tearing apart Hasbro’s reporting after it acquired WotC, Wizards of the Coast sales in 2000 were likely around $725 million (with around $568 million of that amount due to Pokemon, see "Hasbro Results Cite Pokemon Decline"); that’s around $1.1 billion in 2020 dollars. But WotC has learned a lot since then, and selling its own brands is generating a big multiple of the $100 million or so in profits it was making selling someone else’s game along with its own.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas

Edited by - sleyvas on 17 Apr 2021 15:42:56
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist

USA
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Posted - 17 Apr 2021 :  15:51:16  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

I criticise my kids for watching YouTube videos of people playing games that they can play themselves. I tried to watch Critical Roll once. Lasted 2 minutes. I then went to watch some paint dry. Did I mention I found it ever so boring ...?

-- George Krashos



Yeah, I tried to do this once too. I couldn't stand it. Critical roll and other shows of people playing roleplaying games are not fun to me. But then again, neither is watching someone else play a shooting game. Yet young kids do it. I also don't get the fascination of young kids (and by young, I mean ten and up) with games like roblox in which they play games where you take orders and make pizzas or ice cream or whatever for people, and I hope they get the realization that if they don't do something more challenging with their brains that that may be what they're doing in a more messy way for the rest of their lives.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
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Posted - 17 Apr 2021 :  17:34:57  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

I criticise my kids for watching YouTube videos of people playing games that they can play themselves. I tried to watch Critical Roll once. Lasted 2 minutes. I then went to watch some paint dry. Did I mention I found it ever so boring ...?

-- George Krashos



Yeah, I tried to do this once too. I couldn't stand it. Critical roll and other shows of people playing roleplaying games are not fun to me. But then again, neither is watching someone else play a shooting game. Yet young kids do it. I also don't get the fascination of young kids (and by young, I mean ten and up) with games like roblox in which they play games where you take orders and make pizzas or ice cream or whatever for people, and I hope they get the realization that if they don't do something more challenging with their brains that that may be what they're doing in a more messy way for the rest of their lives.



My son plays Roblox, but he does some of the other games in there, like a ghost hunter one and some other stuff.

I tried to play it, myself, but I just didn't get it.

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Shadowsoul
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Ireland
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Posted - 18 Apr 2021 :  12:15:41  Show Profile Send Shadowsoul a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hello everyone long time no see.

“Fantasy is escapist, and that is its glory. If a soldier is imprisioned by the enemy, don't we consider it his duty to escape?. . .If we value the freedom of mind and soul, if we're partisans of liberty, then it's our plain duty to escape, and to take as many people with us as we can!”
#8213; J.R.R. Tolkien

*I endorse everything Dark Wizard says*.
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Azar
Master of Realmslore

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Posted - 18 Apr 2021 :  23:36:22  Show Profile Send Azar a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wendolyn

I'm glad Matt Mercer and crew are doing what they're doing and bringing so many into our wonderful hobby.



I wish their frame of reference wasn't so skewed, but hey...

Stand with anybody that stands right. Stand with him while he is right and part with him when he goes wrong.

Earth names in the Realms are more common than you may think.
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