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TheIriaeban
Master of Realmslore
USA
1289 Posts |
 Posted - 08 Feb 2021 : 16:41:33
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Is anyone aware of any works that address "in world" aspects of the changes made to illusionists because of the ToT? Per the 2e WSC, the following spells would not have existed prior to the ToT:
8th
Screen
Pismal's Wormhole
9th
Weird
Mass Blindness
Now, I would think that Prismal's Wormhole probably did exist in the realms and was adjusted up to 8th from 7th. For the others, they are listed as common spells so maybe Azuth caused one or more of those spells to appear in illusionist's spell books soon after he was restored to godhood?
I am asking because it looks like the Zhents had a level 25 illusionist working for them who suddenly found himself to be level 19. That is going to be quite an adjustment (lost daily access to 7 spell slots).
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"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."
My FR writeups - http://www.mediafire.com/folder/um3liz6tqsf5n/Documents
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PattPlays
Senior Scribe
469 Posts |
Posted - 10 Feb 2021 : 02:43:53
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| Weird is a classic spell that has been butchered into one of the least popular spells in all of 5e. What about it is unique to this lore? I am curious to hear anything serious regarding that absolute meme of a spell. |
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T_P_T |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2383 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2021 : 20:26:23
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quote:
Originally posted by TheIriaeban
Per the 2e WSC, the following spells would not have existed prior to the ToT:
8th
Screen
Pismal's Wormhole
[...]
Now, I would think that Prismal's Wormhole probably did exist in the realms and was adjusted up to 8th from 7th. For the others, they are listed as common spells so maybe Azuth caused one or more of those spells to appear in illusionist's spell books soon after he was restored to godhood?
Mage Tunnel (L9, Alteration) was in Spellbound and Villains Lorebook, however. In unpublished lore may have been written up earlier.
quote:
...When cast, mage tunnel opens a magical passageway between the caster and an area known to the caster no more than
1,000 miles away, through which the caster may freely travel. The only restriction on the spell is that
the destination must be out-of-doors and in a location with which the caster is familiar.
Szass Tam used his mage tunnel for kidnaping as well as travel. In such cases, the tunnel is cast to ap-
pear next to the victim. Anyone within 5 of either opening must make a successful surprise roll or be
immediately drawn into the tunnel, sucked through it, and expelled at the other end. Furthermore, the
victim at the opposite end of the mage tunnel must roll for surprise with a -2 penalty, since the appear-
ance of this spell is usually totally unexpected. The caster himself is not affected by this, need not roll to
resist the suction, and may enter the tunnel at his discretion.
This thing |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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TheIriaeban
Master of Realmslore
USA
1289 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2021 : 16:09:18
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Cool. Then, yep, Prismal's Wormhole could have easily existed pre-ToT.
Back to the primary question: if your campaign back then bridged from 1e to 2e, how did you handle the conversion for arcane casters? Did they get headaches? Did they fall unconscious and have a vision of Midnight's ascention? Did they just wake up the next day and "feel a little different"? |
"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."
My FR writeups - http://www.mediafire.com/folder/um3liz6tqsf5n/Documents
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1842 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2021 : 23:02:40
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| Setting aside the fact that I never liked how RSEs were used to explain changes to the rules I generally went with the idea that those who were more 'intimate' with the Weave felt the changes more keenly. Elves and the Chosen of Mystra, for instance, instantly knew something had radically changed (the Chosen knew exactly what transpired and Elven High Mages as well). Others may or may not have been as aware of the alteration. I like to think that Szas Tam knew what happened but the other zulkirs would be hit or miss, depending on their mastery of the weave (level does not equate to mastery in this case). However, I think all practitioners of the Art felt something, even if they didn't understand what it was at the time. |
I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1842 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2021 : 23:10:16
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| One of the things I dislike about 5e (though it has become my favorite edition) is how they severely curtailed the magic. If I want a spell to exist in the game I just revamp it for 5e. That said, they folded many spells into a single iteration (look at 5e versions of Bigby's Hand and Imprisonment). They also did a poor job of ensuring that some spells were strong enough for their level. Mordenkainen's Sword, for instance, SUCKS for a 7th-level spell. |
I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11695 Posts |
Posted - 23 Feb 2021 : 14:53:11
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quote:
Originally posted by The Arcanamach
One of the things I dislike about 5e (though it has become my favorite edition) is how they severely curtailed the magic. If I want a spell to exist in the game I just revamp it for 5e. That said, they folded many spells into a single iteration (look at 5e versions of Bigby's Hand and Imprisonment). They also did a poor job of ensuring that some spells were strong enough for their level. Mordenkainen's Sword, for instance, SUCKS for a 7th-level spell.
Preach brother. I honestly don't believe a lot of folks truly understand what they've done (possibly not even the designers) in making some of these changes. By that I mean that they may not have thoroughly thought through the ramifications of things. I still see a lot of people complaining how powerful magic is, and I'm like "you can only pretty much keep up a single ward or two... you have no spell slots to waste... you can only have a handful of attuned items... but you can do cantrips for days that do equivalent damage to a sword swing". The idea that a 20th level caster only has a single spell slot for each level of spells 8th & 9th levels and 2 of 6th and 7th levels means their spellcasting is pretty much limited to 5th and lower on a daily basis. So, they need to be really sure that they won't need a wish spell later that day for some reason before they blow that precious 9th level slot, etc... I don't think they got that that's what the extra slots were for way back when... you didn't cast everything because there was always that chance you would need to cast something else because X happened.
That being said, I don't begrudge the progression... I just think they need to open up the higher levels to give somewhere to progress TO. The realms with this magic level doesn't feel like the realms to me any longer. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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TheIriaeban
Master of Realmslore
USA
1289 Posts |
Posted - 23 Feb 2021 : 15:14:16
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quote:
Originally posted by The Arcanamach
Setting aside the fact that I never liked how RSEs were used to explain changes to the rules I generally went with the idea that those who were more 'intimate' with the Weave felt the changes more keenly. Elves and the Chosen of Mystra, for instance, instantly knew something had radically changed (the Chosen knew exactly what transpired and Elven High Mages as well). Others may or may not have been as aware of the alteration. I like to think that Szas Tam knew what happened but the other zulkirs would be hit or miss, depending on their mastery of the weave (level does not equate to mastery in this case). However, I think all practitioners of the Art felt something, even if they didn't understand what it was at the time.
That makes sense. Thank you. |
"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."
My FR writeups - http://www.mediafire.com/folder/um3liz6tqsf5n/Documents
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1842 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2021 : 04:12:18
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@Sleyvas: I know it goes without saying that DMs can do whatever they want with their campaigns but here is how I handle it -
First, I have levels (where needed anyway) beyond 20th for NPCs that need them (do we even have official stats for a 5e Elminster?) and second, even without that, there's nothing stopping an individual from having more knowledge than typical levels provide. I mean, your NPCs can have the ability to cast 'old school' spells if you want because they've taken the time to research a method for it (on a spell-by-spell basis). Your PCs could do it as well if you allow for it, but the point is we can make it whatever we want it to be.
For spell slots above 20th I went back to BECMI material. Wizards in that system didn't get their first 9th-level slot until 21st level. With just some minor adjustments, you can take your 5e PC/NPCs well above 30th-level if you like...all without radically altering the game. |
I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
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LordofBones
Master of Realmslore
1477 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2021 : 05:15:23
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*looks at 5e's horrid wilting*
*cries* |
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Illusionists and the ToT
