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Azar
Master of Realmslore
1286 Posts |
 Posted - 08 Dec 2020 : 00:10:31
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Hello everyone.
Question: Has there ever been a mercenary contract or anything analogous to such a document featured in any official Forgotten Realms product? I'll take a page or even a half-page if that's all exists. Failing that, I'll accept equivalents from other TSR/WOTC campaign settings; well-crafted fan works are likewise welcome.
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Stand with anybody that stands right. Stand with him while he is right and part with him when he goes wrong.
Earth names in the Realms are more common than you may think. |
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AJA
Senior Scribe
USA
747 Posts |
Posted - 09 Dec 2020 : 00:52:41
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None that I can recall seeing.
Aside from the regular length of contract / expectations of service / payment / looting rights (if any), in the Realms I would also expect passages regulating the use / types of magic (if a company has spellcasters), combat hazard pay (wait....a lich AND a great wyrm?!?!?), and strong references and binding vows in the name of Tempus, Tyr and Torm regarding penalties (both temporal and deific) for breaking their contract mid-conflict.
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AJA
YAFRP
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TheIriaeban
Master of Realmslore
USA
1289 Posts |
Posted - 09 Dec 2020 : 17:18:00
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| Based on what I saw in Gold and Glory, I would imagine that a good clause to have would say the mercs won't work for the patron's enemy for a certain period of time (they had a few mentions about a contract ending in the middle of a war and then the enemy hiring the mercs to take out their former employer while still on the field of battle). |
"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."
My FR writeups - http://www.mediafire.com/folder/um3liz6tqsf5n/Documents
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cpthero2
Great Reader
USA
2285 Posts |
Posted - 10 Dec 2020 : 06:23:46
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Learned Scribe Azar,
Though I am no lawyer, I've had a fascination with legal history, and law in general, and have researched it pretty extensively for a layperson. I think I may have some insight and an example contract that may help you (and frankly, make it quite easy on you).
Medieval English law for example wasn't anything at all like what we have now days. During Saxon reign, Great King Alfred of West Saxon established the predecessor to our jury system. It was called a jury, but it operated a bit differently. Operating parallel up until the Magna Carta (common law) were two other systems: Trial by Oath and Trial by Ordeal. The contracts that would exist around the time that a early jury, or Trials by Oath or Ordeal existed were something along the lines of the following:
quote:
May twelfth, in the year of the Incarnation of the Lord, 1248.
I, John of St. Maximin, lawyer, place with you John Cordier, money-changer, my son William Deodat, as an apprentice, so that you may teach and instruct him in the art of money-changing, for two complete and continuous years from this date. I promise by this agreement that I will take care that my son will serve his apprenticeship with you and that he will be faithful and honest in all his dealings for the whole of the said period, and that he will not depart from you nor take anything away from you. And if it should happen, which God forbid, that the said William should cause you any loss I promise to reimburse you by this agreement, believing in your unsupported word, etc. Also I promise to give by this agreement for the expenses of the said William food, that is bread and wine and meat, fourteen heminae of good grain and fifty solidi of the money now current in Marseilles, at your request, and to provide the said William with clothing and necessaries, pledging all my goods, etc.; renouncing the benefit of all laws, etc.
To this I, the said John Cordier, receive the said William as a pupil and promise you, the said John St. Maximin, to teach your son well and faithfully the business of money-changing, etc., pledging all my goods, etc.; renouncing the benefit of all laws, etc.
Witnesses, etc. (https://sourcebooks.fordham.edu/source/1248apprentice-ag2.asp)
As you can see, it is hugely open compared to what we know about contracts, etc. now days. It all comes down to the convening authority and their interpretation in the end. Which makes it really easy on you. :)
Best regards,
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Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring |
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Returnip
Learned Scribe
221 Posts |
Posted - 10 Dec 2020 : 18:21:11
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quote:
Originally posted by cpthero2
I think I may have some insight and an example contract that may help you
Banging stuff. *yoink* |
On the other hand you have different fingers. |
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cpthero2
Great Reader
USA
2285 Posts |
Posted - 11 Dec 2020 : 02:47:52
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Seeker Returnip,
Well, it isn't exactly sexy stuff, haha. However, for some reason (I think due to old jobs I had after the Army), I became extremely interested in law, and legal history.
I have written multiple Contract Devil contracts for my games. They are about 10 - 20 pages'ish, each. If you'd like, I'd be happy to share it. :)
Best regards,
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Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring |
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Azar
Master of Realmslore
1286 Posts |
Posted - 11 Dec 2020 : 08:24:46
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I'm featuring a "mercenary" that is a Lawful Neutral Mage (Invoker) on his way west to Cormyr. When it comes to representatives of that broad principle, he's actually fairly easygoing "off the clock"; in matters of business, however, this fellow is particular when it comes to maintaining his code of conduct. With that in mind, I want this contract to serve a few purposes.
* It is an affirmation that the PCs' monetary investment in his services is solid.
* It is a reminder that NPCs - even those paid for a job - have limits on what they are willing do to for the PCs.
* It gives the PCs something to mull over while drawing them further into a world that seems a bit more alive. There's more interest in a region/population center when knowledge of how the inhabitants comport themselves actually matters; that interest motivates me to flesh out areas of otherwise little consequence.
* Finally, it helps to play up the personality of this specific NPC. Unless the group's luck runs bad, he should be with them for a while and I want to ensure that he isn't a bland pushover. |
Stand with anybody that stands right. Stand with him while he is right and part with him when he goes wrong.
Earth names in the Realms are more common than you may think. |
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cpthero2
Great Reader
USA
2285 Posts |
Posted - 14 Dec 2020 : 02:00:28
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Learned Scribe Azar,
Yeah, that's a cool outlook for a character to have. Adds some great depth to him. That being said, I would recommend not having too much worry over technical aspects of the contract unless there is a truly good reason for your character and his involvement with whoever/whatever he is doing work for. I say that because it seems like you may want a pretty "legit" and specific contract, and those can be a little bit involved. I would use the common law approach (medievally speaking) that I identified above.
Unless you've got some background in legal stuff, you'll either spend a ton of time doing it, or you'd need to put up a bit of cash to someone that could do it. I'd only recommend that, again, if you really want to make those contracts sort of a central point in the game for some reason or another.
Best regards,
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Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring |
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Azar
Master of Realmslore
1286 Posts |
Posted - 17 Dec 2020 : 12:24:43
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quote:
Originally posted by cpthero2
Learned Scribe Azar,
Yeah, that's a cool outlook for a character to have. Adds some great depth to him. That being said, I would recommend not having too much worry over technical aspects of the contract unless there is a truly good reason for your character and his involvement with whoever/whatever he is doing work for. I say that because it seems like you may want a pretty "legit" and specific contract, and those can be a little bit involved. I would use the common law approach (medievally speaking) that I identified above.
Unless you've got some background in legal stuff, you'll either spend a ton of time doing it, or you'd need to put up a bit of cash to someone that could do it. I'd only recommend that, again, if you really want to make those contracts sort of a central point in the game for some reason or another.
Best regards,
In matters of law, I defer to the experts...or at least the expert layman legal enthusiast  .
Anyhow, the basics of a germane mercenary contract were already known to me: the exact service specified, the duration of employment, the cost (be it one lump sum or recurring payments), any necessary expenses (lodging and sustenance, in addition to required equipment), what - if any - room for negotiation exists and all actions that result in termination of the contract without penalty. Having an already finalized contract produced by a professional writer, legal expert or some combination of the two on hand would help me to make damn sure subtly important considerations are included in this document. Furthermore, an official Forgotten Realms contract may involve further setting-specific details that escaped my notice. |
Stand with anybody that stands right. Stand with him while he is right and part with him when he goes wrong.
Earth names in the Realms are more common than you may think. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 17 Dec 2020 : 13:11:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Azar
quote:
Originally posted by cpthero2
Learned Scribe Azar,
Yeah, that's a cool outlook for a character to have. Adds some great depth to him. That being said, I would recommend not having too much worry over technical aspects of the contract unless there is a truly good reason for your character and his involvement with whoever/whatever he is doing work for. I say that because it seems like you may want a pretty "legit" and specific contract, and those can be a little bit involved. I would use the common law approach (medievally speaking) that I identified above.
Unless you've got some background in legal stuff, you'll either spend a ton of time doing it, or you'd need to put up a bit of cash to someone that could do it. I'd only recommend that, again, if you really want to make those contracts sort of a central point in the game for some reason or another.
Best regards,
In matters of law, I defer to the experts...or at least the expert layman legal enthusiast .
Anyhow, the basics of a germane mercenary contract were already known to me: the exact service specified, the duration of employment, the cost (be it one lump sum or recurring payments), any necessary expenses (lodging and sustenance, in addition to required equipment), what - if any - room for negotiation exists and all actions that result in termination of the contract without penalty. Having an already finalized contract produced by a professional writer, legal expert or some combination of the two on hand would help me to make damn sure subtly important considerations are included in this document. Furthermore, an official Forgotten Realms contract may involve further setting-specific details that escaped my notice.
I should think that the number of troops employed -- perhaps even the type of troops -- would be included in the contract, as well as some proviso covering travel, if they're not to be employed locally.
But that's also assuming you're hiring an army. It could just as well be a smalla, specialized force, with more general directives such as "ct as my personal guard and follow all orders given by me or these named representatives." |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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cpthero2
Great Reader
USA
2285 Posts |
Posted - 17 Dec 2020 : 22:27:00
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Master Rupert,
Yeah, those points are certainly valid. The "beauty" of common law in medieval times is that it heavily favored the powerful in ways we can't even perceive of in modern legal times. Magistrates appointed by nobles of high station were drinking at parties together, etc. So, that same magistrate that may be ruling on 'x' issue back in the day, was best dealt with in advance by having him for drinks at parties, getting him some action on the side, small presents, etc. Common law was more like.......... social law depending on the circumstances, haha.
Interestingly enough, in Realms law, it would make Tyrran judges, prosecutors of true faith, invaluable in certain situations, especially if an agreement between State and Church was a separation. Powerful stuff.
Best regards,
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Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring |
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cpthero2
Great Reader
USA
2285 Posts |
Posted - 17 Dec 2020 : 22:29:39
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Learned Scribe Azar,
You know, what I may consider doing is putting such a contract on my list of to-do items for Realms material. I am finishing up on a military treatise regarding the Realms now (overdue by a month now...), but perhaps doing a generalized common law contract would be fun for these very situations. I could really see utility for DM's who love using stuff like that. Something to think about.
Best regards,
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Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring |
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Delnyn
Senior Scribe
USA
889 Posts |
Posted - 17 Dec 2020 : 23:28:58
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| Hmmm, what would it take for a mercenary contract to be certified by a baatezu lawyer with Blood War experience? |
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Azar
Master of Realmslore
1286 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2020 : 01:05:52
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quote:
Originally posted by cpthero2
Learned Scribe Azar,
You know, what I may consider doing is putting such a contract on my list of to-do items for Realms material. I am finishing up on a military treatise regarding the Realms now (overdue by a month now...), but perhaps doing a generalized common law contract would be fun for these very situations. I could really see utility for DM's who love using stuff like that. Something to think about.
Best regards,
Depending on the edition of D&D being used, players are more likely to hire individual capable/powerful NPCs over groups of lower level/HD combatants; you may want to keep that degree of flexibility in mind when drafting a contract. |
Stand with anybody that stands right. Stand with him while he is right and part with him when he goes wrong.
Earth names in the Realms are more common than you may think. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2020 : 03:20:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Azar
quote:
Originally posted by cpthero2
Learned Scribe Azar,
You know, what I may consider doing is putting such a contract on my list of to-do items for Realms material. I am finishing up on a military treatise regarding the Realms now (overdue by a month now...), but perhaps doing a generalized common law contract would be fun for these very situations. I could really see utility for DM's who love using stuff like that. Something to think about.
Best regards,
Depending on the edition of D&D being used, players are more likely to hire individual capable/powerful NPCs over groups of lower level/HD combatants; you may want to keep that degree of flexibility in mind when drafting a contract.
I would say it depends on the use of the mercs more than the edition of the game. As has been observed before, quantity is its own quality. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Azar
Master of Realmslore
1286 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2020 : 05:22:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Azar
quote:
Originally posted by cpthero2
Learned Scribe Azar,
You know, what I may consider doing is putting such a contract on my list of to-do items for Realms material. I am finishing up on a military treatise regarding the Realms now (overdue by a month now...), but perhaps doing a generalized common law contract would be fun for these very situations. I could really see utility for DM's who love using stuff like that. Something to think about.
Best regards,
Depending on the edition of D&D being used, players are more likely to hire individual capable/powerful NPCs over groups of lower level/HD combatants; you may want to keep that degree of flexibility in mind when drafting a contract.
I would say it depends on the use of the mercs more than the edition of the game. As has been observed before, quantity is its own quality.
Oh, no doubt. However, the eventual benefits you receive simply by picking a particular class differs from edition to edition. In D&D 3e+, the Leadership Feat is required if you want to pull in quite a few followers (more cynically, "meat shields"); in AD&D 2e, classes automatically gain a castle/fortress/stronghold at a certain level and they automatically accumulate a retinue of loyalists willing to fight on their behalf. When you can already count on dozens of foot soldiers along with enough commanders to lead them, you have more freedom to hire smaller elite groups or lone specialists (i.e., seasoned adventurers) that cost as much as a larger body of troops. |
Stand with anybody that stands right. Stand with him while he is right and part with him when he goes wrong.
Earth names in the Realms are more common than you may think. |
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Azar
Master of Realmslore
1286 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2020 : 05:29:17
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quote:
Originally posted by AJA
payment / looting rights (if any)
An NPC arguing that they get the shield (unbeknownst to them, a Shield +1)? That sounds like a fun way to kick off a post-combat combat  . |
Stand with anybody that stands right. Stand with him while he is right and part with him when he goes wrong.
Earth names in the Realms are more common than you may think. |
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cpthero2
Great Reader
USA
2285 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2020 : 08:15:23
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Senior Scribe Delnyn,
quote:
Hmmm, what would it take for a mercenary contract to be certified by a baatezu lawyer with Blood War experience?
Hmmm...I'd have to think on that. I have a current contract done up between a current group of mine and a contract devil: "Contract and Covenant for the Assignment of Deeds and Collected Rare Mineral Rights." It's not long though at 7 pages/3,906 words.
What are the specifics you're looking for?
Best regards, |
Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring |
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Canon/officially published mercenary contracts?
