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Originally posted by Returnip

Hello.

I wanted to detail a rule for this. I'm sure most DMs just wing it with a dex check, but I thought I wanted to overcomplicate it a bit for no real reason.

Here's the rule I wrote down. The things I'm interested in feedback on are the DCs and the optional "catch subsequent items" paragraph.

"Catching thrown items
A PC can try to catch any non-weapon item (DM decides if an item is catchable or not) of a reasonable size that is about to land within their reach in two ways.

A PC can ready a move action to catch an item thrown by a specified creature, and then call to their friend (or if they're aware of an enemy throwing something) to throw an item. Then on their readied action they roll a Dex check against DC 10 to catch the item. A PC can only use this method to catch one item per round.

A PC can catch an item when it's not their turn by sacrificing one of their attacks of opportunity. If the PC don't have at least one attack of opportunity left this round they can't catch the item. When trying to catch an item this way in addition to sacrificing one attack of opportunity the PC rolls a Reflex save against DC 15. The PC must have at least one free hand to attempt to catch the item. If the PC does not have a hand free they can drop an item as an immediate action to free up a hand.

If a PC has multiple attacks of opportunity left in a round they can use this method multiple times. Each time they sacrifice one of their attacks of opportunity to try and catch another thrown item assuming they have hands freed up for each of the item (for example by continuously dropping the caught items on the ground at their feet). For each subsequent item that a PC is trying to catch this way the Reflex save DC increases by 2.

In both cases failing to catch the item results in it landing where the rules for attacking with splash weapons decided. If it's a fragile item it might break at the DMs discretion."

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Originally posted by cpthero2

Seeker Returnip,

Have you considered a swift/immediate action set of options? Perhaps something like:

Swift Action: On your turn, you may spend a swift action to ready to catch something coming at you. First make a Perception check to notice what is being thrown, DC 'x', and if successful, make a DC 'x' (determined by the DM) to catch the thrown item.

Immediate Action: Perception Check and Catch Check (DEX based), but at higher checks.

If a person has the Combat Reflexes feat, they can use their AoO's in lieu of a standard swift and/or immediate actions. Kind of an incentive and shows the skill with the feat.

Best regards,

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I was thinking the trade-off spending a move action to get down to a DC 10 roll was worth it, compared to the DC 15 for catching stuff out of your own turn. Do you think the trade-off is not good enough?

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Should catching an item provoke an AoO?

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Should you be allowed to move 5 feet as part of your readied action as usual?

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On the subject of Combat Reflexes I reckon some creatures are treated as having the feat without actually having it. Hence why I didn't put the feat name in writing. Now that I think about it however I wonder if any creature actually exists that doesn't have the feat but is treated as having it. Although that would take ages to comb through all monsters and feats, and I'm already swamped with work on my other little realms research project.

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EDIT: Can you ready a free action? Is that how you mean one can ready a swift action?

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Originally posted by cpthero2

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To be fair, my outlook wasn't predicated upon what the DC would be (looking at it as a strict DM call on the DC due to an almost endless series of possibilities) but rather when it can happen.

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I was thinking you'd add a +2 or -2 as per the "DMs best friend" (DMG, p 30) to keep it simple. I think outlining potential circumstances would complicate it a bit too much.

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The reason I think a swift or immediate action is more beneficial, is because you don't have to ready an action: you're just responding. As a PC, I wouldn't actually know if a creature is going to throw something on their turn unless the DM informs me as much. The readied action would be a real loss of combat efficacy in not knowing that it would necessarily ever occur. At least, that's my view on it, as I run it through my mind.

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I added the part about the PC throwing the item calling out to the other PC to alert them. For example "Hey Jon-Emmentaler! Catch!". To be aware of an enemy throwing something however a Spot check might be in place. I'll take a look at that.

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I think it should [..provoke an AoO]. My time overseas in the Army and being involved in one to many stupid bar fights, has told me that when people are throwing stuff, etc., when your focused on deflecting/stopping/catching something coming your way, dude is going to wreck your face. I've had it happen. haha It hurt, and I looked a little uglier than normal the next day for it. If only the DM had set those DC's differently, it might have turned out better for me. haha

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Very good point. I'll add that it provokes an AoO.

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I would think [..it allows a 5 foot step]. You just can't use 5ft. steps to extend your normal, maximum movement range for a move action. Since what you propose is just a readied action, it should work fine, since it is not extending the movement range.

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Good input. It would also allow for a PC correcting for a potential missed throw as per the splash weapon rules.

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Whew... there very well could be such a creature, but I am unfamiliar with it. I just think the Combat Reflexes feat is a good consideration to acknowledge those skills that have been honed that may allow someone to deal with such issues a lot better and with greater efficacy is all. There may even be other feats that may be a better selection.

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Good point. I'll add a mention of the Combat Reflexes feat as a side note. Like "If a PC has multiple attacks of opportunity (for example from having the Combat Reflexes feat).."

[quote]In 3.5, you can't [..ready a free action], as WotC had ruled that free actions cannot be taken during another "creatures turn." I believe someone over at Paizo affirmed that as well; however, I may not be remembering that well. It's been quite a bit! :)

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Originally posted by Ayrik

2E rules with the Juggling proficiency:

An object tossed towards the character (meant to be caught) can be caught "automatically" (unless the character chooses to make a proficiency test - in the hopes of better success - but fumbles the roll).
An object hurled towards the character as an attack (like a thrown dagger) can be caught if the character succeeds at a THAC0 (modified by Dex and Juggling bonuses) equal or better to the attacker's result.

The character can catch any number of objects each round, without limit. The character gets a "free" Juggling test (with increasing difficulty penalties) each time another object is caught (failure means the object is simply dropped).
The character can immediately hurl the caught object at any target in sight, without delay, like an attack of opportunity - but it still costs (or replaces) one attack/action for the round.

Unlimited "free" attacks of opportunity seems broken to me, regardless what the rules text might state. A skilled juggler could essentially redirect everything his enemies (and friends) throw at him, imagine a mid-level PC who hires a dozen children to hurl a daggers at him as fast as possible during combat, simply so he can gain dozens of thrown-weapon attacks per round, it's ridiculous.

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Originally posted by cpthero2

Seeker Returnip,

So, did you end deciding what you're going to use and how you're going to implement it? :)

Best regards,

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