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slacker
Acolyte

USA
2 Posts

Posted - 26 Nov 2020 :  21:52:47  Show Profile Send slacker a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
Hi everyone, I'd appreciate any insight or advice on a faction I've created called the Naturalites (a better name would be great too haha)

A little bit of background before I describe the group...

I'm running a campaign that takes the party across the Sword Coast. They're up in Mirabar (still after 3 sessions, they seem to like the city a great deal) but will find themselves in Waterdeep eventually. A bit of political backdrop I've thrown in is that Luskan had been planting a seed of revolution in Orlumbor, which not long ago sprouted into a revolution. Waterdavians were appalled by the event and the Open Lord issued a travel ban and embargo of Luskan. As the patience of her people grew thin, a cohort of Luskanites made port in secret to liberate their brethren from Waterdeep, but were discovered and slaughtered by the Griffon Riders.

Thus, The Six Ships Alliance was formed. The Five Ships of Luskan along with their Sixth ship, Orlumbor. An impenetrable blockade was formed outside Waterdeep which stands to this day. Trade hamstrung, and most of the rest of the Lords Alliance turning their back on Waterdeep -- be it for recovery from recent events (Neverwinter, Silverymoon) or a bias in trade (Mirabar) -- leaving her to wallow as the city becomes increasingly unstable.

It should also be mentioned that the Zhentarim are inflicting heavy hazard pay for any Waterdeep-bound traders, which has had its mark on the overland trade as well. Few know or realize that this was a deal brokered between Jarlaxle and the Pereghost.

This is where the Naturalites come in. In times of unemployment and difficulty, men need something to make sense of their suffering -- or at the very least, something to blame for it. The Naturalites are one of many 'heresies' that has emerged in the turmoil befalling Waterdeep. Their foundational philosophy is that Mystra is a terrible creature. She has total control over the Weave, yet allows evil mages to slay the innocent, raise their corpses, and defile them with mind altering magic. She is complicit in every magical act of evil and should be replaced or, at the very least, exposed as the uncaring or lazy beast she truly is.

The Naturalites are not a new faction, by any means, but with the recent developments in Waterdeep have gained quite a following (especially amongst those in the Dock Ward and lower Trade Ward) as people associate their philosophy with the Open Lord, and her status as a Chosen of Mystra. Too flaccid or uncaring to use her powers to eradicate the blockade.

The Naturalites attempt to shed their body of magical influence. They do not cast magic, they do not think of magic. Like a fast, they can feel the affects of this cleanse...

That's about as far as I can go before I have some questions:
1. From what I've read, there's no creation myth for humans. Would it be possible for them to have been created by Ao himself? This could open up doors for their protection from Mystra, and I was considering that their 'magical fast' has essentially sharpened their physical and mental abilities. I'm envisioning them as monks, but I'm not sure what Way would fit (this is 5e).

2. I would like to get Mystra involved to some small degree at attempting to smite the Naturalites. One idea was that she would spread a magical disease, if given the opportunity (such as the touch of a spellcaster onto a Naturalite), that can easily but exclusively be cured by magic. What other ways would she enact her revenge, if she would care at all? Would Laurel Silverhand take offense to such a heresy?

3. Long term impact. What would happen if these guys upended Waterdeep? Would a large number of non-magic users ever stand a chance against someone like Laurel Silverhand? Would people like Mirt or Elminster come to her aid? Would she fight at all?

I've been playing with this idea for a little while and have quite some time before my players ever make it to Waterdeep, so I'd love to hear what my fellow Scribes think.

Kentinal
Great Reader

4541 Posts

Posted - 26 Nov 2020 :  22:23:47  Show Profile Send Kentinal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
An interesting idea.

I do agree humans do not appear to have been created in the Realms, I thought perhaps they were imports though some very old portal or divine action. Also I might have missed origins for them and it does exist. I do not see them as a direct creation of AO, there again it might be possible. However I do not see being a creation of AO would confer protection from any deity.

There is no direct reasons for Mystra to strike at non magic users. Her task is to promote use of magic, so she might encourage others to use magic against those that are saying it should not be used. I can picture many non spell casters not liking people like your Naturalites, no healing magic for sick or injured friends or even Lords that count on offensive and defensive magics.

Seeing how magic works, a few fireballs, magic missiles or even sleep spells can take out your Naturalites unless you House rule a few things. Magic works in the Realms and it can kill or heal. You would need some kind of rule that is better then Spell Resistance for your Naturalites to try to remove magic from the realms and survive the contest. There are too many that depend on magic for their world to work well.

"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon
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cpthero2
Great Reader

USA
2249 Posts

Posted - 27 Nov 2020 :  07:06:15  Show Profile  Visit cpthero2's Homepage Send cpthero2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Acolyte slacker,

quote:
That's about as far as I can go before I have some questions:
1. From what I've read, there's no creation myth for humans. Would it be possible for them to have been created by Ao himself? This could open up doors for their protection from Mystra, and I was considering that their 'magical fast' has essentially sharpened their physical and mental abilities. I'm envisioning them as monks, but I'm not sure what Way would fit (this is 5e).

2. I would like to get Mystra involved to some small degree at attempting to smite the Naturalites. One idea was that she would spread a magical disease, if given the opportunity (such as the touch of a spellcaster onto a Naturalite), that can easily but exclusively be cured by magic. What other ways would she enact her revenge, if she would care at all? Would Laurel Silverhand take offense to such a heresy?

3. Long term impact. What would happen if these guys upended Waterdeep? Would a large number of non-magic users ever stand a chance against someone like Laurel Silverhand? Would people like Mirt or Elminster come to her aid? Would she fight at all?

I've been playing with this idea for a little while and have quite some time before my players ever make it to Waterdeep, so I'd love to hear what my fellow Scribes think.



1. I can't see Ao getting involved at all in anything like creation of humans, etc. He has a strict hands off approach in things like that. From Faiths and Avatar's, p.30:

quote:
The gods of the established faiths of Faerūn informed their priests about the fact that Ao did not interact with mortals. Because of this, members of other faiths neither feared nor spoke out against the cults of Ao.


2. If you are using revenge as a tool for plot development, I would say that getting Leiran's to cast illusory advertisements showing the indiscretions of family members of the Naturalites doing things such as, having sex with prostitutes while married, stealing, abusing children, cheating, or any other such thing that would cause significant social and personal suffering, and possibly be criminal. Getting some involvement of local followers of Mystra recruiting Leiran's, as well as Hoar would possibly be interesting.

3. I don't see how a group like them could upend Waterdeep. There is entirely too much power there.

Best regards,




Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader

USA
3465 Posts

Posted - 27 Nov 2020 :  23:31:31  Show Profile Send Lord Karsus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
-There isn't one unified creation myth for humans, but most individual cultures have their own.

(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)

Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium
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Delnyn
Senior Scribe

USA
475 Posts

Posted - 28 Nov 2020 :  00:59:29  Show Profile Send Delnyn a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I don't see Waterdeep giving two rat droppings about these so-called Naturalites if there is a blockade on their harbour and they are evidently abandoned by the Lord's Alliance.

How would these people pose a threat and how would the government of Waterdeep, including the Open Lord, be convinced of said threat?

Blockades and multiple allies reneging on treaties(!!!!) are a definitive higher priority than disgruntled Dock Ward residents, especially without magical power.
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cpthero2
Great Reader

USA
2249 Posts

Posted - 28 Nov 2020 :  05:30:33  Show Profile  Visit cpthero2's Homepage Send cpthero2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Great Reader Karsus,

You know, that has always been an oddity to me. There are many really great creation stories for 'x', but with humans, it is left pretty dull. I never understood why that it is. Maybe they didn't want to wade into RL religious issues?

Best regards,





Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring
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Delnyn
Senior Scribe

USA
475 Posts

Posted - 01 Dec 2020 :  01:24:35  Show Profile Send Delnyn a Private Message  Reply with Quote
RL religious issues is a definite factor. That is why 2ed renamed devils as baatezu, demons as tanar'ri, daemons as yugoloths and demodands as gehreleths. Not that the people who painted us all as baby-slashing, orphanage-torching, Satan-worshipping low lifes would ever buy D&D products no matter how whipped, chopped, pureed and flanderized.

Oh well, haters will always hate.

quote:
Originally posted by cpthero2

Great Reader Karsus,

You know, that has always been an oddity to me. There are many really great creation stories for 'x', but with humans, it is left pretty dull. I never understood why that it is. Maybe they didn't want to wade into RL religious issues?

Best regards,


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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
34467 Posts

Posted - 01 Dec 2020 :  03:08:25  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Delnyn

RL religious issues is a definite factor. That is why 2ed renamed devils as baatezu, demons as tanar'ri, daemons as yugoloths and demodands as gehreleths.



I actually liked that change. It made them seem more exotic and it was easier to remember which ones were which.

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cpthero2
Great Reader

USA
2249 Posts

Posted - 01 Dec 2020 :  04:59:31  Show Profile  Visit cpthero2's Homepage Send cpthero2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Senior Scribe Delnyn,

That is really cool. I didn't know that. I suppose I had no reason to look into it, because I just thought it was cool to begin with.

Just out of curiosity, do you have any links to literature that you read about that at? Not that I disbelieve you, I just find that quite interesting!

Best regards,





Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring
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cpthero2
Great Reader

USA
2249 Posts

Posted - 01 Dec 2020 :  05:02:21  Show Profile  Visit cpthero2's Homepage Send cpthero2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Master Rupert,

As I mentioned to Senior Scribe Delnyn, I didn't even know that that was a thing. However, I agree with you. It definitely made it way more exotic and memorable.

Best regards,




Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring
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Delnyn
Senior Scribe

USA
475 Posts

Posted - 02 Dec 2020 :  00:00:35  Show Profile Send Delnyn a Private Message  Reply with Quote
No, not literature, just years of firsthand experience in real life for the flesh and blood guy who created Delnyn the cleric in 1981.

quote:
Originally posted by cpthero2

Senior Scribe Delnyn,

That is really cool. I didn't know that. I suppose I had no reason to look into it, because I just thought it was cool to begin with.

Just out of curiosity, do you have any links to literature that you read about that at? Not that I disbelieve you, I just find that quite interesting!

Best regards,






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cpthero2
Great Reader

USA
2249 Posts

Posted - 02 Dec 2020 :  04:06:52  Show Profile  Visit cpthero2's Homepage Send cpthero2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Senior Scribe Delnyn,

Ah, so that was your first character, was it? :)

Best regards,





Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring
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Delnyn
Senior Scribe

USA
475 Posts

Posted - 03 Dec 2020 :  02:50:32  Show Profile Send Delnyn a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by Delnyn

RL religious issues is a definite factor. That is why 2ed renamed devils as baatezu, demons as tanar'ri, daemons as yugoloths and demodands as gehreleths.



I actually liked that change. It made them seem more exotic and it was easier to remember which ones were which.



Easier to remember, yes. I will also credit the Planescape setting with fleshing out the fiendish societies, emphasizing the regimentation of baatezu, the anarchy of tanar'ri and the greedy opportunism of the yugoloths.
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cpthero2
Great Reader

USA
2249 Posts

Posted - 03 Dec 2020 :  06:43:49  Show Profile  Visit cpthero2's Homepage Send cpthero2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Senior Scribe Delnyn,

Ahhh, nice! My first character's name was: Mar I. It wasn't long before I had a Mar II, and Mar III. I started at 7. ;) haha I have no idea how I selected that name to this day.

Best regards,




Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring
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