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 AD&D 2e Dalelands map?
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Azar
Learned Scribe

187 Posts

Posted - 18 Nov 2020 :  16:11:14  Show Profile Send Azar a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
Hello everyone.

Recently, I purchased some vintage Forgotten Realms material online and was sent an additional item by this generous lady. The item in question is a large folded map (a poster, perhaps?) of The Dalelands that originates from, hm...early to mid Advanced Dungeons & Dragons 2nd Edition. I don't want to unfold the map for scanning because it's in a sealed bag and looks to be still crisp/brand new. After conducting a basic image search, I found an example of this map's art style here.

With the above information, can one of you fine folk please tell me which box set or book - if any - included this map? I'd like to know the answer for collection purposes.

Stand with anybody that stands right. Stand with him while he is right and part with him when he goes wrong.

cpthero2
Great Reader

USA
2250 Posts

Posted - 18 Nov 2020 :  17:25:08  Show Profile  Visit cpthero2's Homepage Send cpthero2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Learned Scribe Azar,

Yeah, that map comes from the Dalelands FRS1 sourcebook, if I recall correctly.

You're lucky to have that. Was it FRS1 that you got?

Best regards,






Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring
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Azar
Learned Scribe

187 Posts

Posted - 26 Nov 2020 :  02:32:41  Show Profile Send Azar a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by cpthero2

Learned Scribe Azar,

Yeah, that map comes from the Dalelands FRS1 sourcebook, if I recall correctly.


That is absolutely correct; why I didn't think to check out a supplement titled The Dalelands is beyond me .

quote:
Originally posted by cpthero2

You're lucky to have that. Was it FRS1 that you got?

Best regards,


I purchased the MC3 Monstrous Compendium (primarily for the Oriental dragons), actually. No...the vendor was simply munificent and included an extra unrelated AD&D 2e product.

Stand with anybody that stands right. Stand with him while he is right and part with him when he goes wrong.
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cpthero2
Great Reader

USA
2250 Posts

Posted - 26 Nov 2020 :  08:14:37  Show Profile  Visit cpthero2's Homepage Send cpthero2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Learned Scribe Azar,

That is absolutely incredible that the merchant included that! Very cool! :) Congratulations.

Best regards,




Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring
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Rymac
Learned Scribe

USA
306 Posts

Posted - 28 Nov 2020 :  01:24:27  Show Profile  Visit Rymac's Homepage Send Rymac a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Azar

Hello everyone.

Recently, I purchased some vintage Forgotten Realms material online and was sent an additional item by this generous lady. The item in question is a large folded map (a poster, perhaps?) of The Dalelands that originates from, hm...early to mid Advanced Dungeons & Dragons 2nd Edition. I don't want to unfold the map for scanning because it's in a sealed bag and looks to be still crisp/brand new. After conducting a basic image search, I found an example of this map's art style here.



FRS1 The Dalelands was missing the maps of Archenbridge and Essembra. That errata can be found in Dragon #205 (May 1994). (Some sellers on eBay will include the errata with if they're aware it was published.)

I recall right after first reading through FRS1 that I wrote TSR. They mailed me back that issue of the Dragon. Since I already had a subscription, that issue of The Dragon has remained sealed up.

- Ryan

Edited by - Rymac on 28 Nov 2020 02:15:02
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cpthero2
Great Reader

USA
2250 Posts

Posted - 28 Nov 2020 :  05:16:52  Show Profile  Visit cpthero2's Homepage Send cpthero2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Learned Scribe Rymac,

That is awesome you have that Dragon in a bag. Very nice!

I completely forgot about those maps in Dragon #205. What a trip looking back at the cover. That cover is very memorable though!

Best regards,





Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring
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Rymac
Learned Scribe

USA
306 Posts

Posted - 28 Nov 2020 :  05:49:17  Show Profile  Visit Rymac's Homepage Send Rymac a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by cpthero2

Learned Scribe Rymac,

That is awesome you have that Dragon in a bag. Very nice!


It's not just "in a bag". It's properly sealed up in clear plastic and a card-stock backing.

- Ryan
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cpthero2
Great Reader

USA
2250 Posts

Posted - 28 Nov 2020 :  05:54:16  Show Profile  Visit cpthero2's Homepage Send cpthero2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Learned Scribe Rymac,

No offense meant by my clearly uncouth commentary regarding proper storage procedures. I fear I am quite inadequate in both my appreciation and skill when it comes to such collecting! Congratulations on the collection and the proper storage of it too! :)

Best regards,




Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring

Edited by - cpthero2 on 30 Nov 2020 07:15:50
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Azar
Learned Scribe

187 Posts

Posted - 29 Nov 2020 :  01:26:42  Show Profile Send Azar a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Rymac

quote:
Originally posted by Azar

Hello everyone.

Recently, I purchased some vintage Forgotten Realms material online and was sent an additional item by this generous lady. The item in question is a large folded map (a poster, perhaps?) of The Dalelands that originates from, hm...early to mid Advanced Dungeons & Dragons 2nd Edition. I don't want to unfold the map for scanning because it's in a sealed bag and looks to be still crisp/brand new. After conducting a basic image search, I found an example of this map's art style here.



FRS1 The Dalelands was missing the maps of Archenbridge and Essembra. That errata can be found in Dragon #205 (May 1994). (Some sellers on eBay will include the errata with if they're aware it was published.)

I recall right after first reading through FRS1 that I wrote TSR. They mailed me back that issue of the Dragon. Since I already had a subscription, that issue of The Dragon has remained sealed up.




"Somewhere, in the night, a wallet cries out in pain."

Stand with anybody that stands right. Stand with him while he is right and part with him when he goes wrong.
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cpthero2
Great Reader

USA
2250 Posts

Posted - 30 Nov 2020 :  07:16:58  Show Profile  Visit cpthero2's Homepage Send cpthero2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Learned Scribe Azar,

Damn if you are not correct! I am glad I finished up my collection some many years ago. That stuff is super expensive now days.

Best regards,




Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring
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Azar
Learned Scribe

187 Posts

Posted - 05 Dec 2020 :  08:28:09  Show Profile Send Azar a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by cpthero2

Learned Scribe Azar,

Damn if you are not correct! I am glad I finished up my collection some many years ago. That stuff is super expensive now days.

Best regards,







Hey, right or wrong, there has been a resurgence of consumer anxiety regarding Dungeons & Dragons. Specifically, the word on the street is that players/DM interested in D&D of yore are nervous with the stance Wizards of the Coast is taking with legacy material. If - and this, in my opinion, is a mammoth "if" - WOTC decides to stop selling pre-3e digital products, there will only be two options left: sailing the high seas with a skull & crossbones or shopping the secondhand product market. The desire for profit is probably going to win out in the end, but that doesn't stop apprehensive people from panic buying physical goods.

Myself, I got interested in TSR-era D&D years ago (after looking at the 2e Monstrous Manual, of all things). At least my extravagant spending habits were formed prior to this recent controversy .

Stand with anybody that stands right. Stand with him while he is right and part with him when he goes wrong.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
34589 Posts

Posted - 05 Dec 2020 :  16:26:39  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Azar


Hey, right or wrong, there has been a resurgence of consumer anxiety regarding Dungeons & Dragons. Specifically, the word on the street is that players/DM interested in D&D of yore are nervous with the stance Wizards of the Coast is taking with legacy material. If - and this, in my opinion, is a mammoth "if" - WOTC decides to stop selling pre-3e digital products, there will only be two options left: sailing the high seas with a skull & crossbones or shopping the secondhand product market. The desire for profit is probably going to win out in the end, but that doesn't stop apprehensive people from panic buying physical goods.


WotC actually has done that, in the past.

When 4E was released, it was digitally pirated within hours. And WotC's knee-jerk reaction was to get rid of all digital content -- everything, from every edition.

At the time, a lot of the digital stuff was sold via Paizo, for $4 or $5 a product, with one of the "buy it once, download it forever" arrangements. WotC's over-reaction means that a lot of stuff I paid for, I can't download anymore. And no, there was no refund or anything, and when they changed their minds and started allowing downloads through DriveThruRPG, stuff purchased through Paizo did not transfer over. It's not really a big deal to me; I've got multiple copies of all those files, scattered around on more hard drives than I knew I had, but the principle of it still pisses me off: an entirely unjustified reaction means that if I somehow lost all my digital copies, I couldn't replace them without buying them again.

At the time this happened, WotC even had an entire page of free stuff that you could download directly from them -- and this, too, was taken down in response to the 4E piracy. Stuff they weren't making any money at all on, they still took down so it couldn't be pirated.

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Returnip
Learned Scribe

212 Posts

Posted - 05 Dec 2020 :  17:34:38  Show Profile Send Returnip a Private Message  Reply with Quote
It's very strange that WotC have such a way to handle old d&d stuff compared to how they handle MtG. Maybe it's the difference between tangible and non-tangible products..

On the other hand you have different fingers.
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cpthero2
Great Reader

USA
2250 Posts

Posted - 05 Dec 2020 :  17:42:53  Show Profile  Visit cpthero2's Homepage Send cpthero2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Learned Scribe Azar,

quote:
Hey, right or wrong, there has been a resurgence of consumer anxiety regarding Dungeons & Dragons. Specifically, the word on the street is that players/DM interested in D&D of yore are nervous with the stance Wizards of the Coast is taking with legacy material.


Yeah, with the zeitgeist as it is with WotC, I think there is at least some moderately reasonable chance that such a thing could occur. Ideology is quite powerful of course. It is an interesting situation for sure. I believe that if WotC were foolish enough to do what you suggest it may do, then you would see massive amounts of ships sailing from The Pirate Isles. The internet never never does what it is told to do, and WotC knows that.

Love it or hate it, the interwebs are forever (at least The Wayback Machine is ;) ), and WotC rides that train too.

Best regards,




Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring
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cpthero2
Great Reader

USA
2250 Posts

Posted - 05 Dec 2020 :  17:45:33  Show Profile  Visit cpthero2's Homepage Send cpthero2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Master Rupert,

That's interesting. Due to my utter, unending loathing for 4e, I never went back to their website until maybe several months ago due to some sages from Candlekeep having put material on the DM's Guilde, i.e. Great Reader sleyvas, and Senior Scribe Seethyr.

Not a surprising response from WotC at all. Not the sharpest tools in the shed over in that building.

Best regards,





Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring
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cpthero2
Great Reader

USA
2250 Posts

Posted - 05 Dec 2020 :  17:49:31  Show Profile  Visit cpthero2's Homepage Send cpthero2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Acolyte Returnip,

quote:
It's very strange that WotC have such a way to handle old d&d stuff compared to how they handle MtG. Maybe it's the difference between tangible and non-tangible products..


Please forgive my ignorance to the issue as I stopped playing MtG back with the Dark expansion, when I was stationed in Europe. What do you mean by "compared to how they handle MtG"?

Best regards,




Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring
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Returnip
Learned Scribe

212 Posts

Posted - 05 Dec 2020 :  18:32:55  Show Profile Send Returnip a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by cpthero2
Please forgive my ignorance to the issue as I stopped playing MtG back with the Dark expansion, when I was stationed in Europe. What do you mean by "compared to how they handle MtG"?



Of course you're excused. In Magic the Gathering they unintentionally created an economy. This results in old cards having a value that can fluctuate, and some cards' value even constantly grows to a point where people with a lot of money invests in cards like you would in stocks. The biggest reason while many old cards are so valuable is that they're not reprinted (an intentional move by WotC) and they're still a part of the meta and not banned or "too old" (another intentional move by WotC). The moment they change this the value of affected cards will plummet. An example of this can be seen with frequently played new cards that might have somewhat of a balance issue. Investors know that this card is at great risk of being banned or restricted, or errata'd and that the value is going to drop soon and so they'll try and get rid of the card at high price while it's still commonly played. As a new set comes out there will be card reveals. Knowledgable investors will look at these and consider how they will fit into a new meta. Will the release of a new card make a rarely played older card become very popular? Buy several copies of that old card, and once its price rises sell at a profit.

So what does all this mean? It's fan service. It's a way to keep old players in the game. What's the downside? It's very expensive to get into the game in the beginning. Any tournament you'll go to will be crowded with players with the best (and therefor also the most expensive) cards and they'll kick your ass.

So while they're shaping MtG to cater to old, faithful players, they're shaping D&D into "your books are not good enough anymore. You have to buy new ones".

On the other hand you have different fingers.
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cpthero2
Great Reader

USA
2250 Posts

Posted - 05 Dec 2020 :  19:02:26  Show Profile  Visit cpthero2's Homepage Send cpthero2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Acolyte Returnip,

Ahhh...wow. That has changed a bit since late 1994, lol.

Completely makes sense to me though. I honestly wonder with that kind of trading practice, depending on the amount of money at play here, why the SEC hasn't become involved, haha. Kidding sort of. I have no idea how much really is circulating (money that is) relative to that secondary market, but I would imagine it is quite likely large.

Great explanation too: thank you. I think we can see how WotC, by your explanation, definitely screwed up with approach to keeping loyal, faithful players (well, at least speaking for this former loyal, and faithful consumer). I've purchased nothing from them since about 2006, I think.

Best regards,








Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring
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Returnip
Learned Scribe

212 Posts

Posted - 05 Dec 2020 :  20:17:33  Show Profile Send Returnip a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by cpthero2

Acolyte Returnip,

Ahhh...wow. That has changed a bit since late 1994, lol.

Completely makes sense to me though. I honestly wonder with that kind of trading practice, depending on the amount of money at play here, why the SEC hasn't become involved, haha. Kidding sort of. I have no idea how much really is circulating (money that is) relative to that secondary market, but I would imagine it is quite likely large.

Great explanation too: thank you. I think we can see how WotC, by your explanation, definitely screwed up with approach to keeping loyal, faithful players (well, at least speaking for this former loyal, and faithful consumer). I've purchased nothing from them since about 2006, I think.

Best regards,



This is an article from 2019 and the card in question is still being played in some formats:

https://www.polygon.com/2019/3/5/18251623/magic-the-gathering-black-lotus-auction-price


On the other hand you have different fingers.
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cpthero2
Great Reader

USA
2250 Posts

Posted - 05 Dec 2020 :  21:07:33  Show Profile  Visit cpthero2's Homepage Send cpthero2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Acolyte Returnip,

Well, much sadness for me. I know when I sold my cards back in the late 90's, I made a pretty good amount of money, but nothing close to the $166,000 for my Black Lotus'. I remember I had (3). haha I think I sold the three for about a grand back in the day, just for the Black Lotus.

Oh well. If I could only truly be a diviner and read the future. lol

Best regards,





Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring
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