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jordanz
Senior Scribe

524 Posts

Posted - 19 Nov 2020 :  06:54:20  Show Profile  Visit jordanz's Homepage Send jordanz a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by cpthero2

Senior Scribe jordanz,

quote:
Anyone know who was the earliest documented adventuring party in the realms?


My apologies for this being asked again. I intended to as you as the original poster, but asked Senior Scribe Delnyn instead (I was extremely tired last night).

When you ask, "Anyone know who was the earliest documented adventuring party in the realms?", what is your definition of a "documented adventuring party"?

Best regards,







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jordanz
Senior Scribe

524 Posts

Posted - 19 Nov 2020 :  06:57:09  Show Profile  Visit jordanz's Homepage Send jordanz a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by cpthero2

Senior Scribe jordanz,

quote:
Anyone know who was the earliest documented adventuring party in the realms?


My apologies for this being asked again. I intended to as you as the original poster, but asked Senior Scribe Delnyn instead (I was extremely tired last night).

When you ask, "Anyone know who was the earliest documented adventuring party in the realms?", what is your definition of a "documented adventuring party"?

Best regards,







By documented I meant mentioned in writing, a novel or or module or game resource.
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jordanz
Senior Scribe

524 Posts

Posted - 19 Nov 2020 :  07:00:26  Show Profile  Visit jordanz's Homepage Send jordanz a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

That wouldn't be the earliest -- we know the Dead Three were adventurers, whilst mortal.



Thanks. This got me thinking about Azuth. I believe he was mortal at one time. Do you know of any info on his mortal life and or any adventuring parties he may have been a part of?
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cpthero2
Master of Realmslore

USA
1764 Posts

Posted - 19 Nov 2020 :  07:00:59  Show Profile  Visit cpthero2's Homepage Send cpthero2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Senior Scribe jordanz,

Ahhh, that makes sense of course. Well, I believe the answer you seek was ultimately provided by Learned Scribe bloodtide_the_red with the Dragonslayers led by Rafak el Cajaan, in -1726DR. :)

Nice find again, Learned Scribe bloodtide_the_red!

Best regards,





Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring
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PattPlays
Learned Scribe

201 Posts

Posted - 19 Nov 2020 :  07:31:02  Show Profile  Visit PattPlays's Homepage Send PattPlays a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ah, but what of elves? Imagine a small troupe of allied Tel'Quessir from the various lineages coming together in opposition to the Crown Wars? A priest of Ghaunadaur, a paladin of Correlon, A rogue of Vhaeraun, a band of varying alignments among Ilythiir and Aryvandaar and all sorts of elves who refuse to participate in the collective suicide that their kind are inevitably going to bring about from their infighting.
Completely undocumented, of course, but you could have these elven adventurers rescuing human tribes from fiendish temptations, destroying or bringing peace to ghosts haunting the catacombs in dwarven mountainhomes too cursed and emotionally painful for the stout folk to even approach. Stuff like that sounds amazing for a theoretical ancient adventuring party far before human companies or epic quest-takers. These fey explorers could turn their back on fame glory and family to just enjoy kicking down some doors and amassing loot, enjoying being slain by terrible foes without shedding a drop of their kin's blood while their relatives all annihilate one another for millennia. I can imagine running into one of these ancient Ilythiir nobody heroes in the underworld of Ysgard in the outer planes, standing out as a legendary figure among the many drow petitioners.

:The world's greatest OOTA fan/critic: :"Powder kegs within powder kegs!": :Meta-Dimensional Cheese: :Why is the Wand of Orcus just back?: :We still don't know the nature of Souls and the Positive Energy Plane: :PC on profile, Aldritch Elpyptrat Maxinfield: :Helljumpers, Bungie.net: :Rock Hard Gladiator, RIP Fluidanim, RIP Pluto: :IRC lives:


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jordanz
Senior Scribe

524 Posts

Posted - 19 Nov 2020 :  15:20:14  Show Profile  Visit jordanz's Homepage Send jordanz a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by PattPlays

Ah, but what of elves? Imagine a small troupe of allied Tel'Quessir from the various lineages coming together in opposition to the Crown Wars? A priest of Ghaunadaur, a paladin of Correlon, A rogue of Vhaeraun, a band of varying alignments among Ilythiir and Aryvandaar and all sorts of elves who refuse to participate in the collective suicide that their kind are inevitably going to bring about from their infighting.
Completely undocumented, of course, but you could have these elven adventurers rescuing human tribes from fiendish temptations, destroying or bringing peace to ghosts haunting the catacombs in dwarven mountainhomes too cursed and emotionally painful for the stout folk to even approach. Stuff like that sounds amazing for a theoretical ancient adventuring party far before human companies or epic quest-takers. These fey explorers could turn their back on fame glory and family to just enjoy kicking down some doors and amassing loot, enjoying being slain by terrible foes without shedding a drop of their kin's blood while their relatives all annihilate one another for millennia. I can imagine running into one of these ancient Ilythiir nobody heroes in the underworld of Ysgard in the outer planes, standing out as a legendary figure among the many drow petitioners.



Agreed, and using "the Dead Three" as an example epic level characters have probably existed since the Dawn of FR History. And how does one become Epic? Likely through years of adventuring....most of which was likely not solo.
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Lord Karsus
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USA
3451 Posts

Posted - 19 Nov 2020 :  17:02:28  Show Profile Send Lord Karsus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by PattPlays

Ah, but what of elves?

-Very good point. Cornaith and Sharlario Moonflower traveled and explored Pre-Sundering Faerun some 25,000+ years ago or so. I think they could be considered an adventuring party, given what they were doing (exploring and making allies for their settlement).

(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)

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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
9745 Posts

Posted - 19 Nov 2020 :  17:27:14  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by jordanz

quote:
Originally posted by PattPlays

Ah, but what of elves? Imagine a small troupe of allied Tel'Quessir from the various lineages coming together in opposition to the Crown Wars? A priest of Ghaunadaur, a paladin of Correlon, A rogue of Vhaeraun, a band of varying alignments among Ilythiir and Aryvandaar and all sorts of elves who refuse to participate in the collective suicide that their kind are inevitably going to bring about from their infighting.
Completely undocumented, of course, but you could have these elven adventurers rescuing human tribes from fiendish temptations, destroying or bringing peace to ghosts haunting the catacombs in dwarven mountainhomes too cursed and emotionally painful for the stout folk to even approach. Stuff like that sounds amazing for a theoretical ancient adventuring party far before human companies or epic quest-takers. These fey explorers could turn their back on fame glory and family to just enjoy kicking down some doors and amassing loot, enjoying being slain by terrible foes without shedding a drop of their kin's blood while their relatives all annihilate one another for millennia. I can imagine running into one of these ancient Ilythiir nobody heroes in the underworld of Ysgard in the outer planes, standing out as a legendary figure among the many drow petitioners.



Agreed, and using "the Dead Three" as an example epic level characters have probably existed since the Dawn of FR History. And how does one become Epic? Likely through years of adventuring....most of which was likely not solo.



And now we're back to this small group of adventuring primordials that called themselves "the dawn titans" (a totally separate group from the teen titans which are from another dimension entirely) who decided to pick a fight with another group that called themselves "the Estellar". Their conflict eventually dragged in other forces, and when it escalated, they turned from adventuring party into something akin to generals and kings commanding troupes of their followers.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas

Edited by - sleyvas on 19 Nov 2020 17:28:15
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cpthero2
Master of Realmslore

USA
1764 Posts

Posted - 19 Nov 2020 :  18:15:38  Show Profile  Visit cpthero2's Homepage Send cpthero2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Great Reader sleyvas,

And then we find ourselves going back to a time when two sisters were adventuring through the......darkness? Anyhow, they had a spat, and they started fighting, then stuff started happening, and all of a sudden there is this universe thing going on.

Very weird. haha

Best regards,





Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
34169 Posts

Posted - 19 Nov 2020 :  18:43:53  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by jordanz

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

That wouldn't be the earliest -- we know the Dead Three were adventurers, whilst mortal.



Thanks. This got me thinking about Azuth. I believe he was mortal at one time. Do you know of any info on his mortal life and or any adventuring parties he may have been a part of?



We know he was mortal and the first Magister. That's about it.

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Lord Karsus
Great Reader

USA
3451 Posts

Posted - 19 Nov 2020 :  22:34:20  Show Profile Send Lord Karsus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

We know he was mortal and the first Magister. That's about it.


-He had some duels with Velsharoon or Savras, but don't remember if that was when he was mortal or after getting elevated.

(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)

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Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium
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cpthero2
Master of Realmslore

USA
1764 Posts

Posted - 19 Nov 2020 :  23:27:01  Show Profile  Visit cpthero2's Homepage Send cpthero2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Great Reader Karsus,

quote:
-He had some duels with Velsharoon or Savras, but don't remember if that was when he was mortal or after getting elevated.


It was with Savras, and approximately around 161DR. It went on for several years until the then mortal Azuth, defeated the demi-god Savras, and imprisoned him in a staff.

Best regards,



Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring
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PattPlays
Learned Scribe

201 Posts

Posted - 20 Nov 2020 :  04:40:15  Show Profile  Visit PattPlays's Homepage Send PattPlays a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

quote:
Originally posted by jordanz

quote:
Originally posted by PattPlays

Ah, but what of elves? Imagine a small troupe of allied Tel'Quessir from the various lineages coming together in opposition to the Crown Wars? A priest of Ghaunadaur, a paladin of Correlon, A rogue of Vhaeraun, a band of varying alignments among Ilythiir and Aryvandaar and all sorts of elves who refuse to participate in the collective suicide that their kind are inevitably going to bring about from their infighting.
Completely undocumented, of course, but you could have these elven adventurers rescuing human tribes from fiendish temptations, destroying or bringing peace to ghosts haunting the catacombs in dwarven mountainhomes too cursed and emotionally painful for the stout folk to even approach. Stuff like that sounds amazing for a theoretical ancient adventuring party far before human companies or epic quest-takers. These fey explorers could turn their back on fame glory and family to just enjoy kicking down some doors and amassing loot, enjoying being slain by terrible foes without shedding a drop of their kin's blood while their relatives all annihilate one another for millennia. I can imagine running into one of these ancient Ilythiir nobody heroes in the underworld of Ysgard in the outer planes, standing out as a legendary figure among the many drow petitioners.



Agreed, and using "the Dead Three" as an example epic level characters have probably existed since the Dawn of FR History. And how does one become Epic? Likely through years of adventuring....most of which was likely not solo.



And now we're back to this small group of adventuring primordials that called themselves "the dawn titans" (a totally separate group from the teen titans which are from another dimension entirely) who decided to pick a fight with another group that called themselves "the Estellar". Their conflict eventually dragged in other forces, and when it escalated, they turned from adventuring party into something akin to generals and kings commanding troupes of their followers.


Has nobody attempted to create a pre-sundering Forgotten Realms campaign setting, or at least a module? I guess it wouldn't be the Forgotten Realms but instead the New Realms..

:The world's greatest OOTA fan/critic: :"Powder kegs within powder kegs!": :Meta-Dimensional Cheese: :Why is the Wand of Orcus just back?: :We still don't know the nature of Souls and the Positive Energy Plane: :PC on profile, Aldritch Elpyptrat Maxinfield: :Helljumpers, Bungie.net: :Rock Hard Gladiator, RIP Fluidanim, RIP Pluto: :IRC lives:


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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
9745 Posts

Posted - 20 Nov 2020 :  12:41:25  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by PattPlays

quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

quote:
Originally posted by jordanz

quote:
Originally posted by PattPlays

Ah, but what of elves? Imagine a small troupe of allied Tel'Quessir from the various lineages coming together in opposition to the Crown Wars? A priest of Ghaunadaur, a paladin of Correlon, A rogue of Vhaeraun, a band of varying alignments among Ilythiir and Aryvandaar and all sorts of elves who refuse to participate in the collective suicide that their kind are inevitably going to bring about from their infighting.
Completely undocumented, of course, but you could have these elven adventurers rescuing human tribes from fiendish temptations, destroying or bringing peace to ghosts haunting the catacombs in dwarven mountainhomes too cursed and emotionally painful for the stout folk to even approach. Stuff like that sounds amazing for a theoretical ancient adventuring party far before human companies or epic quest-takers. These fey explorers could turn their back on fame glory and family to just enjoy kicking down some doors and amassing loot, enjoying being slain by terrible foes without shedding a drop of their kin's blood while their relatives all annihilate one another for millennia. I can imagine running into one of these ancient Ilythiir nobody heroes in the underworld of Ysgard in the outer planes, standing out as a legendary figure among the many drow petitioners.



Agreed, and using "the Dead Three" as an example epic level characters have probably existed since the Dawn of FR History. And how does one become Epic? Likely through years of adventuring....most of which was likely not solo.



And now we're back to this small group of adventuring primordials that called themselves "the dawn titans" (a totally separate group from the teen titans which are from another dimension entirely) who decided to pick a fight with another group that called themselves "the Estellar". Their conflict eventually dragged in other forces, and when it escalated, they turned from adventuring party into something akin to generals and kings commanding troupes of their followers.


Has nobody attempted to create a pre-sundering Forgotten Realms campaign setting, or at least a module? I guess it wouldn't be the Forgotten Realms but instead the New Realms..



Which sundering are you talking about? The elven or the "tearfall" (because I know you're not talking the second sundering). For the elven one, honestly, I don't think it would be as fun as the only races around to any large degree would be elves, giants, and dragons. Pre-tearfall could be interesting, but for the effort, I'd have to have some people really interested in exploring. I see that more as a one off time travel campaign where you detail a few cities and leave it at that.

Also, with the possibilities of spelljamming, planar travel, etc... the question should come up of why not just develop another world and have players go there if you want that style of play. For instance, someone (I forget who) had been developing the orc world in a thread here for where the orcs who came through the orc gates came from. Someone else had been developing the home world of the saurials.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas

Edited by - sleyvas on 20 Nov 2020 12:44:50
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Wooly Rupert
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Posted - 20 Nov 2020 :  18:12:00  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Pre-Tearfall could be a way to use the old Council of Wyrms setting...

...Though I don't see why; it's a different setting, when you go back that far -- it wouldn't make much difference if it was Toril or Generic Setting #17, at that point.

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cpthero2
Master of Realmslore

USA
1764 Posts

Posted - 20 Nov 2020 :  18:18:45  Show Profile  Visit cpthero2's Homepage Send cpthero2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Master Rupert,

Ahhh....I have that boxed set on my shelf. Did you ever use it? I thought I would, and have yet to do so to this day!

Best regards,




Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
34169 Posts

Posted - 20 Nov 2020 :  19:03:10  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by cpthero2

Master Rupert,

Ahhh....I have that boxed set on my shelf. Did you ever use it? I thought I would, and have yet to do so to this day!

Best regards,







I came up with a dragon character and one of whatever the human/demihuman retainer characters were called... But it never went any further than the group of us doing those character sheets.

I was a *huge* fan of the 2E half-dragons, too. 3.x kinda irked me by having all dragon types imitate Zeus and boink anything that held still long enough, so that *anything* at all could be half-dragon. "This is a half-dragon chihuahua! And over here is a half-dragon Norwegian blue parrot! Lovely plumage, innit?"

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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 20 Nov 2020 19:05:49
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cpthero2
Master of Realmslore

USA
1764 Posts

Posted - 21 Nov 2020 :  03:20:14  Show Profile  Visit cpthero2's Homepage Send cpthero2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Master Rupert,

quote:
I came up with a dragon character and one of whatever the human/demihuman retainer characters were called... But it never went any further than the group of us doing those character sheets.

I was a *huge* fan of the 2E half-dragons, too. 3.x kinda irked me by having all dragon types imitate Zeus and boink anything that held still long enough, so that *anything* at all could be half-dragon. "This is a half-dragon chihuahua! And over here is a half-dragon Norwegian blue parrot! Lovely plumage, innit?"


That sounds about right for something like that back in the day when character development in some cases wasn't all that.....deep. haha

Best regards,




Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring
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Delnyn
Senior Scribe

USA
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Posted - 21 Nov 2020 :  12:03:51  Show Profile Send Delnyn a Private Message  Reply with Quote
To all scribes, could we consider the elves who stole the gold dragon Orchtrien's library notes that led to the creation of King Killer Star a documented adventuring party? I think the story was "Traitors" by Richard Byers in Realms of the Elves. The events took place -25,000 DR.
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
9745 Posts

Posted - 21 Nov 2020 :  14:29:00  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by cpthero2

Master Rupert,

Ahhh....I have that boxed set on my shelf. Did you ever use it? I thought I would, and have yet to do so to this day!

Best regards,







I came up with a dragon character and one of whatever the human/demihuman retainer characters were called... But it never went any further than the group of us doing those character sheets.

I was a *huge* fan of the 2E half-dragons, too. 3.x kinda irked me by having all dragon types imitate Zeus and boink anything that held still long enough, so that *anything* at all could be half-dragon. "This is a half-dragon chihuahua! And over here is a half-dragon Norwegian blue parrot! Lovely plumage, innit?"



That litter of firebreathing half-dragon jackalopes I met last month would be hurt by your statements.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
34169 Posts

Posted - 21 Nov 2020 :  15:41:59  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Delnyn

To all scribes, could we consider the elves who stole the gold dragon Orchtrien's library notes that led to the creation of King Killer Star a documented adventuring party? I think the story was "Traitors" by Richard Byers in Realms of the Elves. The events took place -25,000 DR.



Haven't read that story in a while... It would depend on how things played out, I guess. If they were an existing autonomous group, then yes. If they were assembled for that one specific goal, I'd not consider it an adventuring party.

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Delnyn
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Posted - 21 Nov 2020 :  17:16:39  Show Profile Send Delnyn a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert


Haven't read that story in a while... It would depend on how things played out, I guess. If they were an existing autonomous group, then yes. If they were assembled for that one specific goal, I'd not consider it an adventuring party.



The elves assembled for that specific goal.

On a side note about the half-dragon threads that came up lately, the story was chock full of references to half-dragons resulting from Orchtrien's interspecies affairs.
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cpthero2
Master of Realmslore

USA
1764 Posts

Posted - 21 Nov 2020 :  19:56:25  Show Profile  Visit cpthero2's Homepage Send cpthero2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Great Reader sleyvas,

quote:
That litter of firebreathing half-dragon jackalopes I met last month would be hurt by your statements.


lol... "...firebreating half-dragon jackalopes...", is now a classis one for me! The mental image of that is absurd in all of the best ways.

Best regards,




Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring
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cpthero2
Master of Realmslore

USA
1764 Posts

Posted - 21 Nov 2020 :  19:58:52  Show Profile  Visit cpthero2's Homepage Send cpthero2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Master Rupert,

quote:
Haven't read that story in a while... It would depend on how things played out, I guess. If they were an existing autonomous group, then yes. If they were assembled for that one specific goal, I'd not consider it an adventuring party.



That is an interesting consideration. I am going to start with the assumption that we're talking about mercenaries, or something similar, not actual members of a nations military.

So, mercs "looking" for adventure, putting themselves in the market place to be hired, and then doing something such as described by Senior Scribe Delnyn, wouldn't constitute an "adventuring party", you feel?

Best regards,




Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring
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PattPlays
Learned Scribe

201 Posts

Posted - 22 Nov 2020 :  07:14:11  Show Profile  Visit PattPlays's Homepage Send PattPlays a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by cpthero2

Master Rupert,

quote:
Haven't read that story in a while... It would depend on how things played out, I guess. If they were an existing autonomous group, then yes. If they were assembled for that one specific goal, I'd not consider it an adventuring party.



That is an interesting consideration. I am going to start with the assumption that we're talking about mercenaries, or something similar, not actual members of a nations military.

So, mercs "looking" for adventure, putting themselves in the market place to be hired, and then doing something such as described by Senior Scribe Delnyn, wouldn't constitute an "adventuring party", you feel?

Best regards,





Well why not go race by race. When are the first (if any) ancient records of dwarves outside of the mountain homes assisting others or being hired for work as individual fighters etc? First halflings that were reported getting involved in events outside of their shires and getting into trouble? (not the dragon/giant story, hero yes adventurer no) First goblin individuals to achieve a place in history doing historic things with other peoples? First orc individuals to achieve something besides their people's conquests?

:The world's greatest OOTA fan/critic: :"Powder kegs within powder kegs!": :Meta-Dimensional Cheese: :Why is the Wand of Orcus just back?: :We still don't know the nature of Souls and the Positive Energy Plane: :PC on profile, Aldritch Elpyptrat Maxinfield: :Helljumpers, Bungie.net: :Rock Hard Gladiator, RIP Fluidanim, RIP Pluto: :IRC lives:


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