Candlekeep Forum
Candlekeep Forum
Home | Profile | Register | Active Topics | Active Polls | Members | Private Messages | Search | FAQ
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

 All Forums
 Forgotten Realms Journals
 General Forgotten Realms Chat
 SCAG Errata--the Wall
 New Topic  New Poll New Poll
 Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Next Page
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic
Page: of 5

CorellonsDevout
Great Reader

USA
2551 Posts

Posted - 11 Nov 2020 :  23:13:43  Show Profile Send CorellonsDevout a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
This errata is making the rounds on the internet, so I figured I would share it here (apologies if someone else already has). Apparently, they're omitting the sentence which describes the Wall of the Faithless in their updated printing of the SCAG.

https://media.wizards.com/2020/dnd/downloads/SCAG-Errata.pdf

Sweet water and light laughter

ElfBane
Learned Scribe

USA
167 Posts

Posted - 11 Nov 2020 :  23:17:57  Show Profile Send ElfBane a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The PDF provided did not enlighten me. What am I missing? I searched the PDF for "faithless" and "wall" and came up nil
Go to Top of Page

Ayrik
Great Reader

Canada
7303 Posts

Posted - 11 Nov 2020 :  23:33:44  Show Profile Send Ayrik a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Searches won't find references to things which have been omitted, lol.

The Wall was always controversial and unpopular. So it makes sense that it might be de-emphasized or omitted in newer Realmslore printings/publications.

It actually amuses me that some fans (online) are vehemently condemning this villainous retcon. After vehemently condemning the Wall so powerfully and so often for years and years. I suppose we must admire their passions, if not their intellects.

[/Ayrik]
Go to Top of Page

CorellonsDevout
Great Reader

USA
2551 Posts

Posted - 11 Nov 2020 :  23:42:48  Show Profile Send CorellonsDevout a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ElfBane

The PDF provided did not enlighten me. What am I missing? I searched the PDF for "faithless" and "wall" and came up nil



The PDF will indicate "new" changes to the SCAG. It states that in the afterlife section of the SCAG, the last sentence has been omitted. That sentence was about the Wall.

Sweet water and light laughter
Go to Top of Page

sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
9738 Posts

Posted - 12 Nov 2020 :  00:21:14  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'd imagine the people most worried about this are the people who have cultures that don't accept the gods because they came from Abeir. Honestly, I couldn't care one way or the other, but rather than retcon to just remove mention of it, they should instead have some story/plot that destroys it. For instance, have Ao tell Kelemvor that the wall is unfair treatment to the people who came over from Abeir and to return those souls to Abeir itself.... but it involves destroying the wall entirely because you can't just pull certain souls out... or some other BS like that.




Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
Go to Top of Page

CorellonsDevout
Great Reader

USA
2551 Posts

Posted - 12 Nov 2020 :  00:57:26  Show Profile Send CorellonsDevout a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

I'd imagine the people most worried about this are the people who have cultures that don't accept the gods because they came from Abeir. Honestly, I couldn't care one way or the other, but rather than retcon to just remove mention of it, they should instead have some story/plot that destroys it. For instance, have Ao tell Kelemvor that the wall is unfair treatment to the people who came over from Abeir and to return those souls to Abeir itself.... but it involves destroying the wall entirely because you can't just pull certain souls out... or some other BS like that.




From my understanding, the Wall only affects those under Kel/Myrkul's sphere of influence/jurisdiction. So those in, say. Zakhara, answer to their own divinity, so I don't think the Wall applies to them. Not sure about Abeir though.

I agree however that, rather than just omitting it, they should provide a canonical explanation. And they haven't omitted unclaimed souls turning into larvae, which isn't any better, imho, and basically just replaces the faithless ending up on the Wall.

Sweet water and light laughter
Go to Top of Page

Ayrik
Great Reader

Canada
7303 Posts

Posted - 12 Nov 2020 :  02:26:42  Show Profile Send Ayrik a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Abeir has no gods or goddesses. So no promised afterlife. And no Wall for those who reject the promise.

[/Ayrik]
Go to Top of Page

CorellonsDevout
Great Reader

USA
2551 Posts

Posted - 12 Nov 2020 :  02:37:52  Show Profile Send CorellonsDevout a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Has it ever been said what does happen to souls of Abeirans? Afterlife usually goes hand-in-hand with gods, but it isn't always the case (especially if worship isn't required).

Sweet water and light laughter
Go to Top of Page

Zeromaru X
Master of Realmslore

Colombia
1791 Posts

Posted - 12 Nov 2020 :  04:49:15  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The Wall is gone. Good riddance. It added nothing good to Realmslore. I will not miss it.

quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout

Has it ever been said what does happen to souls of Abeirans? Afterlife usually goes hand-in-hand with gods, but it isn't always the case (especially if worship isn't required).



There is one hint of a possible Abeiran afterlife in the Liberator of the Steelsky paragon path (Forgotten Realms Player's Guide). The fluff part of it states that the souls of those who died under draconic or elemental oppression have become a form of divine power source that the Liberators use to power their paladin-like spells. It seems this energy is embedded in Abeir's Steelsky.

This only covers the afterlifes of those who died under the oppression of dragon and primordials and their genasi subjects, tho.

There is also the fact that the dragonborn came to Faerūn with funerary customs, which mean the must have some notion of an afterlife.

quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

I'd imagine the people most worried about this are the people who have cultures that don't accept the gods because they came from Abeir. Honestly, I couldn't care one way or the other, but rather than retcon to just remove mention of it, they should instead have some story/plot that destroys it. For instance, have Ao tell Kelemvor that the wall is unfair treatment to the people who came over from Abeir and to return those souls to Abeir itself.... but it involves destroying the wall entirely because you can't just pull certain souls out... or some other BS like that.




Didn't Kelemvor created some Mirror Wall in the novels that they latter ignored for the Wall of the Faithless? They can just bring that back.

Long ago, in the distant past, they fell into decay. The philosopher’s path... The river of glory... Even the saints resting in the darkness rise up without response and block the way...

Edited by - Zeromaru X on 12 Nov 2020 04:50:51
Go to Top of Page

Irennan
Great Reader

Italy
3310 Posts

Posted - 12 Nov 2020 :  04:59:56  Show Profile Send Irennan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout

quote:
Originally posted by ElfBane

The PDF provided did not enlighten me. What am I missing? I searched the PDF for "faithless" and "wall" and came up nil



The PDF will indicate "new" changes to the SCAG. It states that in the afterlife section of the SCAG, the last sentence has been omitted. That sentence was about the Wall.



I don't think it'll be missed by many. I won't miss it, personally. Ed doesn't have the Wall in his Realms either, that I know.

To all Facebook-using FR fans, you might be interested in checking out this page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/450517575051806/
Go to Top of Page

Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
34137 Posts

Posted - 12 Nov 2020 :  05:15:53  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I won't miss it, but I still dislike the casual, unexplained retcon.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Editor and scribe for The Candlekeep Compendium

I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
Go to Top of Page

keftiu
Senior Scribe

475 Posts

Posted - 12 Nov 2020 :  12:03:26  Show Profile Send keftiu a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X

The Wall is gone. Good riddance. It added nothing good to Realmslore. I will not miss it.

quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout

Has it ever been said what does happen to souls of Abeirans? Afterlife usually goes hand-in-hand with gods, but it isn't always the case (especially if worship isn't required).



There is one hint of a possible Abeiran afterlife in the Liberator of the Steelsky paragon path (Forgotten Realms Player's Guide). The fluff part of it states that the souls of those who died under draconic or elemental oppression have become a form of divine power source that the Liberators use to power their paladin-like spells. It seems this energy is embedded in Abeir's Steelsky.

This only covers the afterlifes of those who died under the oppression of dragon and primordials and their genasi subjects, tho.

There is also the fact that the dragonborn came to Faerūn with funerary customs, which mean the must have some notion of an afterlife.

quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

I'd imagine the people most worried about this are the people who have cultures that don't accept the gods because they came from Abeir. Honestly, I couldn't care one way or the other, but rather than retcon to just remove mention of it, they should instead have some story/plot that destroys it. For instance, have Ao tell Kelemvor that the wall is unfair treatment to the people who came over from Abeir and to return those souls to Abeir itself.... but it involves destroying the wall entirely because you can't just pull certain souls out... or some other BS like that.




Didn't Kelemvor created some Mirror Wall in the novels that they latter ignored for the Wall of the Faithless? They can just bring that back.



I wish we’d gotten like, 30% more Abeir.

4e fangirl. Here to queer up the Realms.
Go to Top of Page

Demzer
Senior Scribe

756 Posts

Posted - 12 Nov 2020 :  12:47:18  Show Profile Send Demzer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well, as I have been quite vocal in some threads about the Wall, I guess I will comment.

quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

I'd imagine the people most worried about this are the people who have cultures that don't accept the gods because they came from Abeir.



quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik

Abeir has no gods or goddesses. So no promised afterlife. And no Wall for those who reject the promise.



quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout

Has it ever been said what does happen to souls of Abeirans? Afterlife usually goes hand-in-hand with gods, but it isn't always the case (especially if worship isn't required).



I don't think Abeirans were affected in any way at any point, unless they were immortal on Abeir and started dying only when "moved" to Toril there MUST be something happening to the souls of the deceased over there and that would be their fate on Toril too.

Which leads us to ...

quote:
Originally posted by keftiu

I wish we’d gotten like, 30% more Abeir.



Yep, more information is always good, especially when the cultures that came from there are going to stay.

quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X

The Wall is gone. Good riddance. It added nothing good to Realmslore. I will not miss it.



Can't say I will miss it (in more than 20 years playing and DMing it was mentioned in ... 2-3 sessions maybe?) but I will keep saying that it had it's own logic for Faerun (not the whole of Toril).
If only people could have examined it within the setting and stop projecting their own philosophy in discussions about the "canon" of the Realms (whatever happens at individual gaming tables is obviously free of any such constraint).

But the way it was handled is quite poor, as others have said.
Whatever you thought about the Wall and the Faithless business, if it was deemed a problem big enough to take action based on player feedback they should have done something to it, not swipe it under the carpet. Without going into painful bits of real world history, if something really bad happens, the answer is to discuss and condemn it, not ignore it.

I understand it would have taken a bit of creative work to deal with it properly but they already had it done (in a pseudo-canon way) through the plot of the Neverwinter Nights: Mask of the Betrayer crpg. They could've just taken that plot out of the "mortal" timeline (we don't have timestamps for "crusades" happening outside the Prime so it could've happened at any time) and have it happen during the Second Sundering.

Have a blurb describing how some unnamed heroes fought the vestiges of the evil power of Myrkul by leading a revolt that took down the Wall for good and how Kelemvor (and his minions) did not interfere because it was in the souls rights to do that or whatever noble reasons and you have it done. The Wall gets taken down, Myrkul is the villain we all love to hate, Kelemvor gets a little bit more respect and you've made the player base happy.

I'm sure there are even more ways in which they could have directly faced "the Wall issue" and dealt with it meaningfully, like they did by firmly stating that orcs are not just born mindless evil beasts.

Swiping it under the carpet feels unsatisfying and sets a bad precedent (exaggerating here: what if RAS wins his struggles and Eilistraee is "Errata-ed" out of rulebooks without a word of explanation?).

quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X

Didn't Kelemvor created some Mirror Wall in the novels that they latter ignored for the Wall of the Faithless? They can just bring that back.



That's his abode/courtroom, where the walls are made so that the souls judged (and anything that passed by really) can be seen for what they truly are and what they truly did in life. It was never a replacement for the Wall of the Faithless which is (or was, I guess we should say now) the wall encircling the City of Judgement on the Fugue Plane.
Go to Top of Page

Zeromaru X
Master of Realmslore

Colombia
1791 Posts

Posted - 12 Nov 2020 :  15:03:47  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I really don't mind Eilistraee, either (she is getting way too "Mystra-treatment" to my taste), but I get your point. But wasn't RAS changing the afterlife of the Realms? I guess this will be dealt with in his next novel.

That, or the newly hired sensibility readers WotC hired adviced them to remove it.

EDIT:
Now that I think about it, this can be related to the cancelled Dragonlance novels...

Long ago, in the distant past, they fell into decay. The philosopher’s path... The river of glory... Even the saints resting in the darkness rise up without response and block the way...

Edited by - Zeromaru X on 12 Nov 2020 15:16:13
Go to Top of Page

Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
34137 Posts

Posted - 12 Nov 2020 :  15:21:32  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I think there was just some designer that didn't like it, so they nixed it. That's been their policy for a while -- ignore the fanbase and stomp on any lore that doesn't immediately fit into whatever they're doing.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Editor and scribe for The Candlekeep Compendium

I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
Go to Top of Page

Irennan
Great Reader

Italy
3310 Posts

Posted - 12 Nov 2020 :  15:21:38  Show Profile Send Irennan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Demzer

Swiping it under the carpet feels unsatisfying and sets a bad precedent (exaggerating here: what if RAS wins his struggles and Eilistraee is "Errata-ed" out of rulebooks without a word of explanation?).




That's called "the 3e->4e transition". Except it was even worse, because WotC retconned Eilistraee out of the Realms by intentionally subverting her character and lore into something gross and unrecognizable that only had the same name as her. And I mean, their goal was to get people to dislike her, according to some FR authors, so... Seeing that crap re-retconned into oblivion was one good use of the retconning tool.

quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X

I really don't mind Eilistraee, either (she is getting way too "Mystra-treatment" to my taste)




WotC has been only downplaying her or painting her as irrelevant up to now (for more than a decade). On top of that, they decided to not even mention what we're told about her and her followers in Death Masks (and it's quite big) when writing their Waterdeep Adventure; only RAS' dudebros are the focus as far as drow go, despite the Eilistraeans recently becoming relevant in Waterdeep. In Dungeon of the Mad Mage they come to the point of pretending the Promenade has never existed--basically, they retconned it out of existence >.>

The only person currently giving lore about her is Ed, through a few of his tweets (and only to give closure to what happens in Death Masks). I was (positively) shocked to learn you could pick her as a deity in BG3.

To all Facebook-using FR fans, you might be interested in checking out this page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/450517575051806/

Edited by - Irennan on 12 Nov 2020 15:42:06
Go to Top of Page

Gyor
Master of Realmslore

1425 Posts

Posted - 12 Nov 2020 :  16:26:29  Show Profile Send Gyor a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Irennan

quote:
Originally posted by Demzer

Swiping it under the carpet feels unsatisfying and sets a bad precedent (exaggerating here: what if RAS wins his struggles and Eilistraee is "Errata-ed" out of rulebooks without a word of explanation?).




That's called "the 3e->4e transition". Except it was even worse, because WotC retconned Eilistraee out of the Realms by intentionally subverting her character and lore into something gross and unrecognizable that only had the same name as her. And I mean, their goal was to get people to dislike her, according to some FR authors, so... Seeing that crap re-retconned into oblivion was one good use of the retconning tool.

quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X

I really don't mind Eilistraee, either (she is getting way too "Mystra-treatment" to my taste)




WotC has been only downplaying her or painting her as irrelevant up to now (for more than a decade). On top of that, they decided to not even mention what we're told about her and her followers in Death Masks (and it's quite big) when writing their Waterdeep Adventure; only RAS' dudebros are the focus as far as drow go, despite the Eilistraeans recently becoming relevant in Waterdeep. In Dungeon of the Mad Mage they come to the point of pretending the Promenade has never existed--basically, they retconned it out of existence >.>

The only person currently giving lore about her is Ed, through a few of his tweets (and only to give closure to what happens in Death Masks). I was (positively) shocked to learn you could pick her as a deity in BG3.



She does get some mentions in both the SCAG and in MTOFs (MTOF also mentions her more obscure lawful sister who stayed in the Seldarine instead of joining the Dark Seldarine, although it doesn't go into detail on her, although a search shows she is kind of an Elven Paladin God).
Go to Top of Page

Gyor
Master of Realmslore

1425 Posts

Posted - 12 Nov 2020 :  16:32:22  Show Profile Send Gyor a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The disappearance of the Wall of the Faithless appears connected to the next Drizzt Trilogy were Drizzt goes on a quest to save everyones souls, while Jaralxel (I mangled his name) works to save Menzo.

And the previous trilogy laid the ground work for a Drizzt Planeswalker (we know FR is getting an Magic the Gathering set next year in the Summer) so all evidence is pointing towards a major Realms Shaking Event, maybe even a multiverse shaking event akin to Die, Vecna, Die, to achieve various goals like MtG D&D crossover that make sense and giving them an excuse to release a Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting book for 5e. 2021 is going to be the most eventful year for the Forgotten Realms since the novel line died.
Go to Top of Page

Irennan
Great Reader

Italy
3310 Posts

Posted - 12 Nov 2020 :  16:34:07  Show Profile Send Irennan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Gyor

She does get some mentions in both the SCAG and in MTOFs (MTOF also mentions her more obscure lawful sister who stayed in the Seldarine instead of joining the Dark Seldarine, although it doesn't go into detail on her, although a search shows she is kind of an Elven Paladin God).



Yeah, she gets small writeups (that paint her as irrelevant and useles in MToF, btw), but that's just bare minimum inclusion. It's definitely not "the Mystra treatment", heh.

To all Facebook-using FR fans, you might be interested in checking out this page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/450517575051806/
Go to Top of Page

TomCosta
Forgotten Realms Designer

USA
730 Posts

Posted - 12 Nov 2020 :  17:50:20  Show Profile Send TomCosta a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Can't say I'm too worked up about it. It's less of a retcon than an omission. That said, I agree with many of you that this was a lost story opportunity, even if only in a couple sentences. And that said, I always liked the wall. In a world filled with real gods, it made sense that the faithless and false would face some sort of purgatory to me. It's not a judgment on anyone's real world values, just a conceit of D&D and the Realms.
Go to Top of Page

Kentinal
Great Reader

4502 Posts

Posted - 12 Nov 2020 :  18:03:06  Show Profile Send Kentinal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
@Tom you mean concept?

In general it was surprising to learn that Eilistraee has a sister though.

"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon
Go to Top of Page

Zeromaru X
Master of Realmslore

Colombia
1791 Posts

Posted - 12 Nov 2020 :  18:03:29  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Irennan



Yeah, she gets small writeups (that paint her as irrelevant and useles in MToF, btw), but that's just bare minimum inclusion. It's definitely not "the Mystra treatment", heh.


Compared with what other gods get in 5e, it feels like the "Mystra treatment".

Long ago, in the distant past, they fell into decay. The philosopher’s path... The river of glory... Even the saints resting in the darkness rise up without response and block the way...
Go to Top of Page

Irennan
Great Reader

Italy
3310 Posts

Posted - 12 Nov 2020 :  18:09:50  Show Profile Send Irennan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X

quote:
Originally posted by Irennan



Yeah, she gets small writeups (that paint her as irrelevant and useles in MToF, btw), but that's just bare minimum inclusion. It's definitely not "the Mystra treatment", heh.


Compared with what other gods get in 5e, it feels like the "Mystra treatment".



All the Dark Seldarine get the same, most other gods get writeups as well.. and on top of that, her writeup basically says "no one knows her; she tries to lure the drow away but she's powerless; the fate of the souls of her people is unknown".

That definitely isn't the Mystra treatment.

To all Facebook-using FR fans, you might be interested in checking out this page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/450517575051806/
Go to Top of Page

TheIriaeban
Senior Scribe

USA
500 Posts

Posted - 12 Nov 2020 :  18:16:50  Show Profile Send TheIriaeban a Private Message  Reply with Quote
If worship is currency and the person's soul is the payoff, this Wall sounds like a waste. It would be better that the soul be sent back for another turn, sans memories, so they can try again to have faith. If "he who has the most souls wins", I don't see any of the gods liking this arrangement. Sure, some other god may get that soul but at least I (being a particular god) have a chance to get it, too.

"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."

My FR writeups - http://www.mediafire.com/folder/um3liz6tqsf5n/Documents
Go to Top of Page

sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
9738 Posts

Posted - 12 Nov 2020 :  19:20:32  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout

quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

I'd imagine the people most worried about this are the people who have cultures that don't accept the gods because they came from Abeir. Honestly, I couldn't care one way or the other, but rather than retcon to just remove mention of it, they should instead have some story/plot that destroys it. For instance, have Ao tell Kelemvor that the wall is unfair treatment to the people who came over from Abeir and to return those souls to Abeir itself.... but it involves destroying the wall entirely because you can't just pull certain souls out... or some other BS like that.




From my understanding, the Wall only affects those under Kel/Myrkul's sphere of influence/jurisdiction. So those in, say. Zakhara, answer to their own divinity, so I don't think the Wall applies to them. Not sure about Abeir though.

I agree however that, rather than just omitting it, they should provide a canonical explanation. And they haven't omitted unclaimed souls turning into larvae, which isn't any better, imho, and basically just replaces the faithless ending up on the Wall.



Actually, I'd prefer it that those unclaimed for this reason actually follow the way of Rashemen to a degree. Their spirits never leave Toril, and the land itself starts to collect "spirit energy". Telthors become more common. Weaveghosts.. things like that.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
Go to Top of Page

sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
9738 Posts

Posted - 12 Nov 2020 :  19:44:27  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X

quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout

Has it ever been said what does happen to souls of Abeirans? Afterlife usually goes hand-in-hand with gods, but it isn't always the case (especially if worship isn't required).



There is one hint of a possible Abeiran afterlife in the Liberator of the Steelsky paragon path (Forgotten Realms Player's Guide). The fluff part of it states that the souls of those who died under draconic or elemental oppression have become a form of divine power source that the Liberators use to power their paladin-like spells. It seems this energy is embedded in Abeir's Steelsky.

This only covers the afterlifes of those who died under the oppression of dragon and primordials and their genasi subjects, tho.

There is also the fact that the dragonborn came to Faerūn with funerary customs, which mean the must have some notion of an afterlife.



Yeah, from this (which btw, Zero thanks for pointing me to it a long time ago), I've assumed that magic in Abeir is kind of like incarnum based. Since we have had Ed validate that magic exists in both worlds (relatively recently in twitter, and actually several years prior whenever he did an article on worldfire and talked about spellcasters on both sides), my assumptions about how magic works on Abeir have always been something I like to speculate about.

I think magic on Abeir may have some or all of these as options. There's nothing to this list other than personal taste, but its a start based on some of the things we've seen

1) magic requires the use of material components. This doesn't mean you can use something like a spellcasting focus to replace the need for material components. Its like what we saw in 1e d&d, and if you want to cast magic missile you better carry a nail... and web requires a bit of spiderweb, etc...

2) Magic requires a local power source of some sort to be nearby OR you need something that allows you to tap into an existing power source that's remote. What do I mean by that? You might have to carry a staff that's got a bit of crystal left over from the petrification of a dragon corpse, and that allows you to draw on that source even if you are far away from it.

3) Pertaining to #2 above, the faerunians unwittingly via setting up temples, gathering items as requested by the gods, etc... began setting up a "weave" in the areas where they lived by finding these items OR transferring their power into other sources (such as the idol of a deity in a temple to a god of magic). This started people of Abeir calling the lands from Toril "the lands of belief", because it seemed that their faith was making magic spread. In truth, unbeknownst to the mortals doing the work, it was simply the gods guiding them in the construction of a basic weave. This also means that magic was strong where these people lived, but weak anywhere that there weren't temples. So, say in Shyr, no weave would exist, and a link to divine magic would also be weak.

4) Divine magic works on Abeir, but not like on Toril. They have "place magic" like exists in Rashemen that draws on the spirits and ley lines. However, they also have divine magic that can exist through a weave, but it requires a lot more sacrifice. It requires local idols, and the more power, the more that important that idol. Destruction of the idol can have nasty repercussions for divine magic. This is somewhat represented by the DM's Guild product "Priestess: Ancient World Divine Class", and basically the "priestesses" on Abeir have access to divine spellcasting, but it requires a LOT of sacrifice to cast a spell. So, they don't do it unless its needed or will vastly improve things. Still, to the people of Abeir, this is an amazing thing. Also, in that product, it encourages the idea of priests creating "walking" versions of these idols that travel with them so that they can pray at them. Essentially, if we note these idols as something like a portable small weave anchor driven by devotion, its roaming around and MAKING people give devotion to the gods wherever the priest goes. I don't think the original author of that product saw it from this perspective, but it really works for this kind of plotline for Abeir. Essentially, the "priests" on Abeir were walking around with idols that looked like their gods. They used spells less and focused on protecting their idol AND letting their idol help them fight. In some ways, people might see this as the gods fighting for them in a small way. But, lots of priests, lots of idols, lots of devotion.... crowdsourcing magic via devotion and sacrifice.

5) Abeir had "binder" type magics which resembled that of a warlock, or probably more like a sha'ir. They could reach out to powerful elemental beings, primordials, powerful dragons, primal spirits, etc... via a pact to "fuel" their spellcasting. In some ways, this might resemble spirit shamans. In others it might resemble warlocks and binders. This essentially either pulled magic from the elemental planes or some other source TO Abeir OR used the magic inherent in the land from souls not going to their afterlife.

6) Dream magic existed. In many ways, this dream magic resembled how illusion magic was separate in 1e from "wizard" magic. It was also a magic of the mind to a degree, and thus Auppenser was also able to draw upon it.

Again, these are just my thoughts on the magic of Abeir. I'd love to hear anyone else's thoughts on the subject.

By the way, this same "reconstruction" of a weave is what had to happen on the Toril side as well after the spellplague. That's partly why magic was unstable for ten years, and it would have been faster had there been an actual god of magic to guide its reformation by guiding the clergy. Alas, Mystra was weak on Abeir, with her servants Savras, Auppenser, and Leira working to keep her alive (and to their surprise, possibly a freed Karsus, which possibly dragged the shadow weave to Abeir and tore it from Shar's control.... luckily, the two lovers, Mask and Leira would help with it as well). This was because dweomerheart had lost its anchor to Toril and "moved" to Abeir (as had some other godly domains, such as the one for Mulhorand's gods, Unther's gods, Leira's domain, etc...). Eventually, they went to the transferred portion of Soorenar, and with the aid of a mortal willing to take on his spirit, they found the phylactery of Velsharoon in his mortal abode of the Tower Terrible that was in Abeir. Thus was Velsharoon also drawn to Abeir, leaving Mellifleur in Toril with Velsharoon's body. With the lord of necromancy's aid, they began to resurrect dead gods of death and rebirth, which eventually led to......

I admit its not a perfect story, but its a start.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas

Edited by - sleyvas on 12 Nov 2020 20:45:11
Go to Top of Page
Page: of 5 Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
Next Page
 New Topic  New Poll New Poll
 Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Jump To:
Candlekeep Forum © 1999-2020 Candlekeep.com Go To Top Of Page
Snitz Forums 2000