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Azar
Learned Scribe

239 Posts

Posted - 15 Nov 2020 :  04:57:03  Show Profile Send Azar a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal



I am sure you are not considered a black hat. Though it appears you got caught mixed up with side issues/disagreements of other scribes at candlekeep in this scroll.



quote:
Originally posted by cpthero2

Learned Scribe Azar,

I feel you are from a "black hat." I for one greatly appreciate your contributions, discussions, and involvement at the 'Keep.

Best regards,








That's comforting to read. Mostly, I was wondering why the collective brainpower of this forum fell silent upon my submission. If that offering of mine is amateurish pablum or perhaps sacrilegious, I'd prefer to hear it from setting veterans before moving forward.

Stand with anybody that stands right. Stand with him while he is right and part with him when he goes wrong.
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Kentinal
Great Reader

4580 Posts

Posted - 15 Nov 2020 :  05:41:11  Show Profile Send Kentinal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Azar I did not see there was much to add to the discussion, I have not been thinking much about artifacts. Though there clearly is the example of two deities sharing a Chosen, so it clearly can make sense that deities could share in making and powering an artifact for goals they all strive for.

"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
34783 Posts

Posted - 15 Nov 2020 :  06:07:16  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal

quote:
Originally posted by Azar

I feel like a black hat that has just wandered into a saloon only to see the patrons suddenly vacate the premises .



I am sure you are not considered a black hat. Though it appears you got caught mixed up with side issues/disagreements of other scribes at candlekeep in this scroll.



Also, it's not uncommon for activity here to go in spurts.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader

USA
3549 Posts

Posted - 15 Nov 2020 :  17:10:32  Show Profile Send Lord Karsus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
-Moonblades were cooperative efforts by the Seldarine. The Guardian's Tear was inadvertently created by Mystra and Helm together.

(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)

Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium
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cpthero2
Great Reader

USA
2252 Posts

Posted - 15 Nov 2020 :  18:21:40  Show Profile  Visit cpthero2's Homepage Send cpthero2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Learned Scribe Azar,

quote:
One day, a group of travel-weary Mililans in the area visited the Eldathyns for a bit of respite. After both groups had dined for the evening, the Tuneservants of the divine troupe played gentle melodies as thanks for the generous meal. The Peacemen and Peacewomen found that some of the troubled souls sitting nearby in silent observation responded well to the music played by their guests. Seeing the value in this emotional outlet, they requested that the Mililans make a return trip to instruct their more flexible priests in the ways of music. The eldest of the Mililans agreed to this request and an arrangement was made.

Both branches of their respective faiths came together with such regularity that the Mililans one day decided to permanently post a band of their most introspective members as a gesture of goodwill. Eventually, a potent magical artifact was born from the union of their various efforts: the Mist Flute

Unlike mundane examples of the instrument, this creation is formed from solidified mist. If dispelled, dispersed or otherwise disintegrated, the flute will automatically re-form (depending on the ambient moisture content, this could take anywhere from hours to weeks). Only those of pure thought are able to use the flute to its fullest capacity.

Below are just some of its powers.

  • Calm aggressive emotions.

  • Quench one's thirst for an entire day.

  • Conjure an obscuring mist.

  • Summon rain.

  • Nullify/absorb magic or magical attacks that involve dehydration and/or heat (such as Abi-Dalzim's Horrid Wilting) A strong enough opposing force causes the enchanted water droplets that compose the flute to fly apart; weaker forces cause a reduction in ability until the flute can fully regenerate.


Thus far, I've tentatively settled on this specimen resembling a shakuhachi; perhaps one of the Mililans is an emigrant from Wa?


That is a pretty amazing magic item. Very powerful. That could allow people to do things in trade and more that would make it an invaluable resource. Very nice!

quote:
As I see it, there are multiple reasons why this works/isn't a bridge too far.

1. There is - to my knowledge - no history of conflict between Eldath and Milil.
2. Both Eldath and Milil are Neutral Good in Alignment; both deities and the core of their worshipers basically believe in doing what's best without bias towards either restructuring or deconstructing the world...or at least their milieu.
3. While Milil isn't explicitly devoted to pacifism the way Eldath is, he's more of a lover than a fighter (he prefers to make music and to encourage others to find their own creativity through poetry and song). Also, his avatar has the ability to make others in his presence feel at peace.
4. The artifact in question is purely defensive. Yes, a devious enough mind could no doubt find a way to pervert its intention, but it is much more difficult to misuse a creation not designed for violence or domination.



1) As far as I know, that is correct indeed!

2) Agreed as their dogma actually align, which I think is the criteria for this, but agreed.

3) Agreed.

4) Good point.

Best regards,







Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring
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Azar
Learned Scribe

239 Posts

Posted - 26 Nov 2020 :  03:05:32  Show Profile Send Azar a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by cpthero2

Learned Scribe Azar,

quote:
One day, a group of travel-weary Mililans in the area visited the Eldathyns for a bit of respite. After both groups had dined for the evening, the Tuneservants of the divine troupe played gentle melodies as thanks for the generous meal. The Peacemen and Peacewomen found that some of the troubled souls sitting nearby in silent observation responded well to the music played by their guests. Seeing the value in this emotional outlet, they requested that the Mililans make a return trip to instruct their more flexible priests in the ways of music. The eldest of the Mililans agreed to this request and an arrangement was made.

Both branches of their respective faiths came together with such regularity that the Mililans one day decided to permanently post a band of their most introspective members as a gesture of goodwill. Eventually, a potent magical artifact was born from the union of their various efforts: the Mist Flute

Unlike mundane examples of the instrument, this creation is formed from solidified mist. If dispelled, dispersed or otherwise disintegrated, the flute will automatically re-form (depending on the ambient moisture content, this could take anywhere from hours to weeks). Only those of pure thought are able to use the flute to its fullest capacity.

Below are just some of its powers.

  • Calm aggressive emotions.

  • Quench one's thirst for an entire day.

  • Conjure an obscuring mist.

  • Summon rain.

  • Nullify/absorb magic or magical attacks that involve dehydration and/or heat (such as Abi-Dalzim's Horrid Wilting) A strong enough opposing force causes the enchanted water droplets that compose the flute to fly apart; weaker forces cause a reduction in ability until the flute can fully regenerate.


Thus far, I've tentatively settled on this specimen resembling a shakuhachi; perhaps one of the Mililans is an emigrant from Wa?


That is a pretty amazing magic item. Very powerful. That could allow people to do things in trade and more that would make it an invaluable resource. Very nice!

quote:
As I see it, there are multiple reasons why this works/isn't a bridge too far.

1. There is - to my knowledge - no history of conflict between Eldath and Milil.
2. Both Eldath and Milil are Neutral Good in Alignment; both deities and the core of their worshipers basically believe in doing what's best without bias towards either restructuring or deconstructing the world...or at least their milieu.
3. While Milil isn't explicitly devoted to pacifism the way Eldath is, he's more of a lover than a fighter (he prefers to make music and to encourage others to find their own creativity through poetry and song). Also, his avatar has the ability to make others in his presence feel at peace.
4. The artifact in question is purely defensive. Yes, a devious enough mind could no doubt find a way to pervert its intention, but it is much more difficult to misuse a creation not designed for violence or domination.



1) As far as I know, that is correct indeed!

2) Agreed as their dogma actually align, which I think is the criteria for this, but agreed.

3) Agreed.

4) Good point.

Best regards,










I want to touch on this specific subject. Dogma takes precedence over Alignment, yes? Usually, there is a strong correlation between Alignment and dogma (e.g., if a god explicitly requires their worshipers to respect life, they're most probably Good), but I imagine there may be the occasional subtle divergence in beliefs that causes two seemingly compatible faiths to quickly break ranks.

Stand with anybody that stands right. Stand with him while he is right and part with him when he goes wrong.
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Azar
Learned Scribe

239 Posts

Posted - 26 Nov 2020 :  03:09:49  Show Profile Send Azar a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal

quote:
Originally posted by Azar

I feel like a black hat that has just wandered into a saloon only to see the patrons suddenly vacate the premises .



I am sure you are not considered a black hat. Though it appears you got caught mixed up with side issues/disagreements of other scribes at candlekeep in this scroll.



Also, it's not uncommon for activity here to go in spurts.



I was under the impression that these boards would be hopping, given that The Forgotten Realms is the de facto "core" setting of Dungeons & Dragons 5th Edition. However, it appears that discussion revolving around the most recent setting canon tends to transpire elsewhere.

Stand with anybody that stands right. Stand with him while he is right and part with him when he goes wrong.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
34783 Posts

Posted - 26 Nov 2020 :  03:54:04  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Azar

I was under the impression that these boards would be hopping, given that The Forgotten Realms is the de facto "core" setting of Dungeons & Dragons 5th Edition. However, it appears that discussion revolving around the most recent setting canon tends to transpire elsewhere.



The problem is that there really isn't recent setting canon. We get dribs and drabs in the adventure books, and that's it.

Back in the days when novels and sourcebooks came out multiple times a year, and WotC was giving free web content almost daily -- the place was hopping, then.

There's more activity when there's something new to talk about, but given that we get so little of that, anymore, it means activity levels are lower than they were in the past.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Editor and scribe for The Candlekeep Compendium

I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
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cpthero2
Great Reader

USA
2252 Posts

Posted - 26 Nov 2020 :  07:50:59  Show Profile  Visit cpthero2's Homepage Send cpthero2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Learned Scribe Azar,

quote:
2) Agreed as their dogma actually align, which I think is the criteria for this, but agreed.

I want to touch on this specific subject. Dogma takes precedence over Alignment, yes? Usually, there is a strong correlation between Alignment and dogma (e.g., if a god explicitly requires their worshipers to respect life, they're most probably Good), but I imagine there may be the occasional subtle divergence in beliefs that causes two seemingly compatible faiths to quickly break ranks.



I don't believe that there is anything in the rules that specify that, but I believe the commonsense ruling would be yes. In my campaigns I always rule that way. Good would be a broad sense of feeling about things, whereas dogma is literally the rules. Just like in law: go to the more specific for the most controlling rule/law/code, etc.

Best regards,




Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring
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cpthero2
Great Reader

USA
2252 Posts

Posted - 26 Nov 2020 :  08:12:04  Show Profile  Visit cpthero2's Homepage Send cpthero2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Learned Scribe Azar,

quote:
I was under the impression that these boards would be hopping, given that The Forgotten Realms is the de facto "core" setting of Dungeons & Dragons 5th Edition. However, it appears that discussion revolving around the most recent setting canon tends to transpire elsewhere.


I can appreciate your point for sure. Master Rupert is correct in what he said below. However, I will say this: what other boards lack in my opinion (though I am not an expert on them) is the deep and broad base of all of the foundational lore. For example, Paul "Snowblood" Simpson, George Krashos, authors that frequent these halls, etc.

The issue, in my opinion these days with 5e is that there really is no lore. So, when you go digging, you find all of the uber lore at places like this, which are from other editions.

I know I am likely going to be lit on fire for suggesting this (I think I hear Master Rupert calling in for a JDAM on me right now), but the older scrolls have massively good stuff in them. I would suggest looking through older stuff that goes to even the founding of Candlekeep. I honestly do not suggest that as a troll, etc., but rather, as a means to reinvigorate conversation. I mean, the Realms is just as much about epic lore as it is community. Point in case. Master Rupert left off his post below with:

quote:
There's more activity when there's something new to talk about, but given that we get so little of that, anymore, it means activity levels are lower than they were in the past.


New in my opinion is relative. New to someone like me who's been playing the Realms since the 80's is pretty rare, as I know it is for someone like Master Rupert. However, new to someone who is just starting up with 5e is a whole new issue there.

By the way Master Rupert, I do not make my recommendation for any reason other than stated to the good Learned Scribe Azar here. I think getting conversations going (especially in the tome of "General Forgotten Realms Chat", which is defined as: This is the main discussion area where anything Realms related can be found. If you wish to talk about anything on the Realms then this is the place!) is a good thing for people new to the Realms. Just my view, nothing more.

Best regards,



Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring
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Merlin Monroe
Acolyte

3 Posts

Posted - 07 Dec 2020 :  02:38:36  Show Profile Send Merlin Monroe a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by cpthero2

Learned Scribe Azar,

quote:
2) Agreed as their dogma actually align, which I think is the criteria for this, but agreed.

I want to touch on this specific subject. Dogma takes precedence over Alignment, yes? Usually, there is a strong correlation between Alignment and dogma (e.g., if a god explicitly requires their worshipers to respect life, they're most probably Good), but I imagine there may be the occasional subtle divergence in beliefs that causes two seemingly compatible faiths to quickly break ranks.



I don't believe that there is anything in the rules that specify that, but I believe the commonsense ruling would be yes. In my campaigns I always rule that way. Good would be a broad sense of feeling about things, whereas dogma is literally the rules. Just like in law: go to the more specific for the most controlling rule/law/code, etc.

Best regards,







If we're using Earth as our reference point, syncretisms (not what we're talking about, but related) don't even need an overlap, union, or connection of dogma. It can be as simple as a role played by the two deities (Hermes and Hekate, both psychopomps who lead the dead to the afterlife, result in the Greek magical papyri's Hermekate) or a mood evoked by the two deities (Mercurius was the interpretatio Romano for Odin) or even just a similar poetic title or description (I don't actually have the understanding to say, but I think I recall some of the Afro-Caribbean deities to be Yoruba/Dahomey/Kikongo deities syncretized with Catholic saints on this basis).

This Flute of the Mists is, first of all, awesome and amazing. Second of all, it is based upon the union of an effect desired and an effect created. That is an absolutely perfect and sufficient vasis for something as "small" as the creation of an artifact.

Although, for some reason, I now can't help thinking that graveyards are often places of serenity and peace ~ exactly the kind of mood Eldath is ALL ABOUT. So which of the death-involved deities would syncretize with Eldath to rule the cemetery quiet? Maybe this should be its own thread....

either e/em/eir pronouns OR fey/fem/fear OR be/bim/bos pronouns {if you don't want to learn new words, singular they is OK}

Running: Neurally Ambiguous: Geppetto Must Die (Shadowrun 5e) (https://www.plexstorm.com/stream/showusyourcrits ; NSFW website)

Support my RPG writing and streaming on Patreon! https://www.patreon.com/queermythopoeia

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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
34783 Posts

Posted - 07 Dec 2020 :  02:58:11  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Merlin Monroe


Although, for some reason, I now can't help thinking that graveyards are often places of serenity and peace ~ exactly the kind of mood Eldath is ALL ABOUT. So which of the death-involved deities would syncretize with Eldath to rule the cemetery quiet? Maybe this should be its own thread....



Kelemvor, because he wants the dead to rest quietly and peacefully.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Editor and scribe for The Candlekeep Compendium

I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
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cpthero2
Great Reader

USA
2252 Posts

Posted - 10 Dec 2020 :  06:52:29  Show Profile  Visit cpthero2's Homepage Send cpthero2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Acolyte Monroe,

I would think Osiris would be a good pick there as well.

Best regards,





Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring
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Azar
Learned Scribe

239 Posts

Posted - 17 Dec 2020 :  13:14:17  Show Profile Send Azar a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Merlin Monroe

quote:
Originally posted by cpthero2

Learned Scribe Azar,

quote:
2) Agreed as their dogma actually align, which I think is the criteria for this, but agreed.

I want to touch on this specific subject. Dogma takes precedence over Alignment, yes? Usually, there is a strong correlation between Alignment and dogma (e.g., if a god explicitly requires their worshipers to respect life, they're most probably Good), but I imagine there may be the occasional subtle divergence in beliefs that causes two seemingly compatible faiths to quickly break ranks.



I don't believe that there is anything in the rules that specify that, but I believe the commonsense ruling would be yes. In my campaigns I always rule that way. Good would be a broad sense of feeling about things, whereas dogma is literally the rules. Just like in law: go to the more specific for the most controlling rule/law/code, etc.

Best regards,







If we're using Earth as our reference point, syncretisms (not what we're talking about, but related) don't even need an overlap, union, or connection of dogma. It can be as simple as a role played by the two deities (Hermes and Hekate, both psychopomps who lead the dead to the afterlife, result in the Greek magical papyri's Hermekate) or a mood evoked by the two deities (Mercurius was the interpretatio Romano for Odin) or even just a similar poetic title or description (I don't actually have the understanding to say, but I think I recall some of the Afro-Caribbean deities to be Yoruba/Dahomey/Kikongo deities syncretized with Catholic saints on this basis).

This Flute of the Mists is, first of all, awesome and amazing. Second of all, it is based upon the union of an effect desired and an effect created. That is an absolutely perfect and sufficient vasis for something as "small" as the creation of an artifact.

Although, for some reason, I now can't help thinking that graveyards are often places of serenity and peace ~ exactly the kind of mood Eldath is ALL ABOUT. So which of the death-involved deities would syncretize with Eldath to rule the cemetery quiet? Maybe this should be its own thread....



Thank you for chipping in and thank you for the compliment. Whenever I get around to breathing more life into this unusual flute and/or featuring the artifact as part of an actual adventure, I'll be sure to make mention of my work here. My underlying goal is to create something that at least one other person uses...or at least derives inspiration from.

P.S. I'd like to see what you come up with. By the way, Helm (Lawful Neutral god of guardians/protectors) would synchronize quite nicely with Kelemvor; followers of both gods may work together to ensure that cemeteries remain unmolested.

Stand with anybody that stands right. Stand with him while he is right and part with him when he goes wrong.
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Azar
Learned Scribe

239 Posts

Posted - 18 Dec 2020 :  10:40:37  Show Profile Send Azar a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by Azar

I was under the impression that these boards would be hopping, given that The Forgotten Realms is the de facto "core" setting of Dungeons & Dragons 5th Edition. However, it appears that discussion revolving around the most recent setting canon tends to transpire elsewhere.



The problem is that there really isn't recent setting canon. We get dribs and drabs in the adventure books, and that's it.

Back in the days when novels and sourcebooks came out multiple times a year, and WotC was giving free web content almost daily -- the place was hopping, then.

There's more activity when there's something new to talk about, but given that we get so little of that, anymore, it means activity levels are lower than they were in the past.



Back around, what...2001 to 2007 or so? I may have stopped by here once or twice, but I never created an account. That must have been one hell of a time for the community : a time when this place was more frontier town than ghost town.

Fans have expressed a desire for supplements that flesh out less-explored areas of the Realms. While that's a great idea on its own merit, the new material featured in those books would also help to increase foot traffic to the Candlekeep forum. Here's to hoping we see an influx of new members sooner rather than later.

Stand with anybody that stands right. Stand with him while he is right and part with him when he goes wrong.
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore

1782 Posts

Posted - 18 Dec 2020 :  11:24:27  Show Profile Send The Arcanamach a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Azar

quote:
Fans have expressed a desire for supplements that flesh out less-explored areas of the Realms. While that's a great idea on its own merit, the new material featured in those books would also help to increase foot traffic to the Candlekeep forum. Here's to hoping we see an influx of new members sooner rather than later.



Yes it would be awesome. The problem is they're making plenty of money relatively risk-free with their current model and the designers don't seem motivated to change. They also have legal issues going on right now and there are rumors (I have no idea as to the validity of these rumors, btw) that Hasbro is considering selling parts of WotC. But even without that, it's been clear for years now that there's no motivation to develop the Realms further than the Sword Coast...and it sucks for those of us who are big fans of the setting.

I've dabbled with the idea of creating my own dmsguild (for free/pay what you want) supplements based off what canon we have from earlier editions, but I find such a job daunting without access to at least some of Ed's current ideas on areas I'm interested in. I would want such work to stay as true to the Realms as possible.

I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one.
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