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TheIriaeban
Master of Realmslore

USA
1047 Posts

Posted - 02 Nov 2020 :  04:21:42  Show Profile Send TheIriaeban a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
That is the proposed name of the Iriaebor book I am looking to put out. I checked the submission rules for DM's Guild and they only take stuff for 5e. I am writing this under 2e rules so that would not be accepted.

So, given that fact, I can scrub it of any references to 2e rules (making it edition agnostic) but hopefully still leave it ending at 1372. Would that still be useful or would it need to go all the way to 1490? I know that many of you use varying rulesets in different time periods and the timeline should allow you to adjust what is given for your game for a pre-1372 period.

Here is the table of contents to give you an idea of what will be in it. If I scrub for 2e rules, the Magic of Iriaebor section would be gone along with edits here and there. I don't foresee any changes other than a business with a cursed brewmaster (still working that out) but it ain't done until it is done so there may be more.

Contents
Introduction
Iriaebor: An Overview
Districts

The Old City
Landmarks
High Tower of Iriaebor
The Golden Bowl of the Goddess
_Festivals
The Guardian Wizards Guild
The High Altar of the Moon
_Festivals
Iriaebor Opera House
Silent Hall
_Festivals
Places of Interest in the Old City
Inns
The Black Boar
The Sign of the Dreaming Dragon
The Wandering Wyvern
Shops
Aurora’s Emporium
Cecil’s Fine Gems and Jewelry
Give Me Wings to Fly
The Well-Dressed Wizard

The Lower City
Landmarks
Blacktalon Citadel
The Dragoneye Warehouse and Yards
Iriaebor City Stables
The Market
Thousandheads Iriaebor Station
Places of Interest in The Lower City
Inns
Seller’s Rest
The Snoring Giant
Shops
Lakkon’s Fine Breads
Stonehammer Arms and Armor
Tarmin Wagons and Wheels

The Docks
Landmarks
The Docks of Iriaebor
Hall of the Arcane
_Festivals
Six Coffers Hold
The Tower of Gold
_Festivals
Places of Interest in the Docks
Inns
The Bottomed Barge
The Hammer and Chisel
Shops
Barskan’s Kegs and Barrels
Gigland Barge Works
Hinkerhand’s Hoys
Sabretan’s Tuns
Trade Road Wagons

The Knoll
Landmarks
Memorial Park
The Shield’s Rest

Near Iriaebor
Landmarks
Dortanthor’s Landing
Iriaebor’s Cemetery
The Lord’s Weirs
The Upper Chionthar Rapids
Places of Interest Near Iriaebor
Inns
The Old Talking Ox

Appendix I: Timeline of Iriaebor
Appendix II: The Illustrious and Infamous of Iriaebor
Appendix III: Organizations in Iriaebor
The Government
The Broken Daggers Thieves’ Guild
The Guardian Wizards Guild
The Harpers
The Moonstars
The Zhentarim
The Night Parade
The Men of the Basilisk
Knights of the Shield
Appendix IV: The Magic of Iriaebor
Magic Items
Spells





"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."

My FR writeups - http://www.mediafire.com/folder/um3liz6tqsf5n/Documents

Edited by - TheIriaeban on 02 Nov 2020 04:22:42

George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
6427 Posts

Posted - 02 Nov 2020 :  10:27:31  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Looks great. Set it in any time period you like although I suspect that "newer players" would prefer something in the 1490s DR given the dearth of Realmslore for that period outside the North.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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TheIriaeban
Master of Realmslore

USA
1047 Posts

Posted - 02 Nov 2020 :  16:11:35  Show Profile Send TheIriaeban a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well, I do have some ideas about how Iriaebor would have been affected by the Spellplague (I figure up to 20% of the Tor would be gone). It is that 100 year jump that is the problem. A town based on trade is going to have to have had people traveling, products being made, etc. I haven't grabbed the other 5e stuff so I will have to ask those that have: how are they handling the 100 year jump? Are they just skipping it and saying what is going on in the late 1400s?

"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."

My FR writeups - http://www.mediafire.com/folder/um3liz6tqsf5n/Documents
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
35998 Posts

Posted - 02 Nov 2020 :  16:28:20  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Keep in mind that a town dominated by trade is going to be affected by its trading partners...

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sleyvas
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USA
11168 Posts

Posted - 02 Nov 2020 :  18:08:33  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Just wondering, why do you assume that any portion of Iriaebor was affected by the spellplague? It very well may have escaped drastic changes, unless there's something written up specifically saying it was affected. I mean, I get why I have to jump through hoops to work with Soorenar, etc... because it was specifically labeled as "drowned Soorenar" for 4e.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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TheIriaeban
Master of Realmslore

USA
1047 Posts

Posted - 02 Nov 2020 :  19:17:29  Show Profile Send TheIriaeban a Private Message  Reply with Quote
There hasn't been anything specifically written that I have seen beyond what was in the Darkhold 5e book about Bron's daughter being the Lord of Iriaebor. But, we do know from canon sources that there is a lich living in Iriaebor in 1368. There is also the Shadowstar there as of 1365. Adding on top of that is that I have added another archmage and a wizard's guild to the mix (that includes the Eye of Iriaebor), I don't see why there wouldn't be some kind of detonation of those structures similar to what happened to Haluraa. Plus, it makes it more interesting to have things change. Iriaebor has had a decent run. It survived the Time of Troubles relatively unscathed. And, it gives a really good story reason for the city to go back to distrusting mages (magic in general was ok, at least pre-spellplague, because of the temples in Iriaebor using it to help but mages, they just can't be trusted to use that power responsibly).

Edit: Oh, I forgot to mention the mages running the flying mount shop. I am not sure just how much magic they had operating there so I haven't really figured out if it would be enough to blow up, too.

"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."

My FR writeups - http://www.mediafire.com/folder/um3liz6tqsf5n/Documents

Edited by - TheIriaeban on 02 Nov 2020 19:24:25
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TheIriaeban
Master of Realmslore

USA
1047 Posts

Posted - 02 Nov 2020 :  23:03:02  Show Profile Send TheIriaeban a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ok, back to the subject at hand, George has made an excellent point about new players. To accommodate players of different "eras", I suppose I could do the base product as Iriaebor at 1372 and then have a section about what changes would have taken place by 1395 (the "start" of 4e) and then another section that list things how they were in 1480 (the start of 5e). Do you think that would satisfy not only the new players but the established ones as well?

I did some quick research and that has gotten the creative juices flowing. How about the humans that the Spellplague changed to Shadar-kai were the ones that had some Talfirian blood in them. Since the Talfir had a history of some of them with the ability to manipulate shadows, it was that connection that caused them to change. I am going to have to do some more digging to see if that will work.

"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."

My FR writeups - http://www.mediafire.com/folder/um3liz6tqsf5n/Documents
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cpthero2
Great Reader

USA
2260 Posts

Posted - 07 Nov 2020 :  17:57:18  Show Profile  Visit cpthero2's Homepage Send cpthero2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Senior Scribe TheIrieaban,

I think this is a great opportunity to have a preface that discusses the lore challenges that exist between editions, and use that as your justification to go pre-Spellplague. I agree that there will be new players that are looking to jump in to the current timeline; however, the fact remains that there is an incomparable amount of lore that exists prior to 4e/5e that is able to be interfaced with in a vastly superior way.

I see this is a golden opportunity to highlight the lore prior to 4e/5e, and if over time enough interest starts to grow within the newer player community, we may possibly see WotC change course to some degree or another. Plus, it makes it a lot easier if that is where most of your knowledge lies.

Best regards,






Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring
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TheIriaeban
Master of Realmslore

USA
1047 Posts

Posted - 07 Nov 2020 :  20:13:19  Show Profile Send TheIriaeban a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thanks for the suggestion cpthero2 but I don't think that would make it through the DMs Guild submission process. They specifically want stuff during the 5e period and it is questionable that the path I am thinking of taking would even be acceptable. I will readily admit that my current knowledge of post-2e is not what is needed for a 5e product and it will take time for me to become familiar with what is out there for those time periods. This work comes from embellished and expanded notes and memories of a campaign run years ago (before even 3e was out).

Like anyone who produces media (written or not), I would like to have it available to as many players and DMs as possible. I can certainly ask for it to be included here on Candlekeep or even just put it in my drop but I believe DMs Guild has a larger audience. If anyone has an idea of how to reach that audience for a non-5e work, I would very much like to hear it. At this point, my only real hope is that they DO introduce time travel back to The Realms and then DM's Guild changes their submission policies to allow stuff from previous time periods.

"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."

My FR writeups - http://www.mediafire.com/folder/um3liz6tqsf5n/Documents
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cpthero2
Great Reader

USA
2260 Posts

Posted - 07 Nov 2020 :  20:26:49  Show Profile  Visit cpthero2's Homepage Send cpthero2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Senior Scribe TheIrieaban,

quote:
Thanks for the suggestion cpthero2 but I don't think that would make it through the DMs Guild submission process. They specifically want stuff during the 5e period and it is questionable that the path I am thinking of taking would even be acceptable.


You are than welcome good sir! Though, if I may, I would like to still suggest that course of action based on the Content and Format Questions with responses from WotC.

https://support.dmsguild.com/hc/en-us/articles/217029298-Content-and-Format-Questions

quote:
What can I use in my titles on the Dungeon Masters Guild?
When you create your own title for the Dungeon Masters Guild, you get access to a hoard of resources. Your work can use any of the 5th Edition D&D rules published by Wizards of the Coast, plus decades of published material for the Forgotten Realms, Ravenloft, Eberron, Ravnica, and Theros settings.


So, it would seem (unless I am missing something, which is quite possible) that you can utilize that material. You can only use the 5e rules, but seemingly the lore from decades past.

Best regards,






Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring

Edited by - cpthero2 on 11 Dec 2020 06:14:17
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TheIriaeban
Master of Realmslore

USA
1047 Posts

Posted - 08 Nov 2020 :  00:36:00  Show Profile Send TheIriaeban a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thank you for pointing that out. I might have been getting hung up on the idea of the different eras. Since they are trying to undo the 4e changes to the Realms, maybe I could just have a blank page with "And then some stuff happened that apparently didn't really matter." followed by a page or two for Iriaebor after the Second Sundering.

"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."

My FR writeups - http://www.mediafire.com/folder/um3liz6tqsf5n/Documents
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cpthero2
Great Reader

USA
2260 Posts

Posted - 08 Nov 2020 :  01:27:12  Show Profile  Visit cpthero2's Homepage Send cpthero2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Senior Scribe TheIriaeban,

No sweat. Quite glad to help. Waive that 2e/3e/3.5e flag high and proud and convert the 4e/5e masses! ;)

Best regards,






Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring
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TheIriaeban
Master of Realmslore

USA
1047 Posts

Posted - 08 Nov 2020 :  16:33:14  Show Profile Send TheIriaeban a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I thought I would show an example of the type of information I am looking to include. Here is the Festivals section for The Silent Hall

Festivals
For the Eldathyn of Iriaebor, there are only three festivals typically observed: Firstflow, Springtide, and the Greening. Firstflow, a celebration of rivers thawing, is a procession that begins at highsun on the day that the ice at the base of the rapids begins to break up. The procession starts at the doors of The Silent Hall and proceeds down to the bridge over the rapids. When the center of the rapids is reached on the bridge, the priests begin a chant that culminates with the leader of the temple emptying a vial of the water of Eldath into the river. The Lady’s blessing causes all of the ice over the entire length of the rapids to instantly melt and thus prevent large chunks of ice (that had built up over the winter on the boulders and large rocks of the rapids) from becoming a danger to anyone downstream. It also marks the beginning of the temple taking up a watch of the river to see just how bad that spring’s flooding will be. While not asked for, this is also a time of substantial donations made to the temple by the merchants and citizens of Iriaebor.

Springtide is a local celebration that marks the midpoint of the spring floods that has changed over the years to be more secular than an actual Eldathyn festival. Originally, it was where the entire city would pause (for about the time needed for ten breaths) and give quiet thanks to Eldath that the water had started to recede. This would happen at highsun on the day after the peak of flooding as determined by the temple priests so the day would vary from year to year.

However, by the middle of the 11th century DR, the growing popularity of The Captain of the Chionthar contest (more information about this can be found in the sidebar in The Upper Chionthar Rapids section) gained the notice of the Merchant Council. The Council decided to set the date of Springtide to the day of the Spring Equinox and to incorporate the Captain’s contest as the festival’s centerpiece. Since then, feasts and general revelry have replaced the prior somber and religious basis of the festival. To the relief of the Eldathyn temple, the quiet thanks given to Eldath at highsun has remained a part of the festival over the years.

The last festival for the Eldathyn temple is that of the Greening. This happens every year on Greengrass. All of Eldath’s places of worship host a gathering of their priests in a celebration of Eldath’s gifts. The only real difference for the Iriaeben temple is that, since it is at a major crossroads, the temple tends to have more Freewalkers (traveling Eldathyn priests) during this festival than the typical remote sacred grove.

"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."

My FR writeups - http://www.mediafire.com/folder/um3liz6tqsf5n/Documents
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cpthero2
Great Reader

USA
2260 Posts

Posted - 08 Nov 2020 :  18:45:31  Show Profile  Visit cpthero2's Homepage Send cpthero2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Senior Scribe TheIriaeban,

quote:
Festivals
For the Eldathyn of Iriaebor, there are only three festivals typically observed: Firstflow, Springtide, and the Greening. Firstflow, a celebration of rivers thawing, is a procession that begins at highsun on the day that the ice at the base of the rapids begins to break up. The procession starts at the doors of The Silent Hall and proceeds down to the bridge over the rapids. When the center of the rapids is reached on the bridge, the priests begin a chant that culminates with the leader of the temple emptying a vial of the water of Eldath into the river. The Lady’s blessing causes all of the ice over the entire length of the rapids to instantly melt and thus prevent large chunks of ice (that had built up over the winter on the boulders and large rocks of the rapids) from becoming a danger to anyone downstream. It also marks the beginning of the temple taking up a watch of the river to see just how bad that spring’s flooding will be. While not asked for, this is also a time of substantial donations made to the temple by the merchants and citizens of Iriaebor.


Are those three festivals something you created, or is that in lore?

I love how you integrated the temple of Eldath in there. So cool. I love seeing deities that don't get enough exposure, getting their due in such cool ways. I love how the followers of Eldath are using the melting of the ice to avoid harm and have a peaceful transition from winter to spring.

quote:
Springtide is a local celebration that marks the midpoint of the spring floods that has changed over the years to be more secular than an actual Eldathyn festival. Originally, it was where the entire city would pause (for about the time needed for ten breaths) and give quiet thanks to Eldath that the water had started to recede. This would happen at highsun on the day after the peak of flooding as determined by the temple priests so the day would vary from year to year.


Do you have this incorporate an attempt to peacefully bring together other priesthoods of perhaps Silvanus and Chauntea? Maybe from a perspective of trying to highlight the value of the Eldath religion, maybe not. Just curious.

quote:
However, by the middle of the 11th century DR, the growing popularity of The Captain of the Chionthar contest (more information about this can be found in the sidebar in The Upper Chionthar Rapids section) gained the notice of the Merchant Council. The Council decided to set the date of Springtide to the day of the Spring Equinox and to incorporate the Captain’s contest as the festival’s centerpiece. Since then, feasts and general revelry have replaced the prior somber and religious basis of the festival. To the relief of the Eldathyn temple, the quiet thanks given to Eldath at highsun has remained a part of the festival over the years.


So when are you expecting to publish that? I'd love to read that.

quote:
The last festival for the Eldathyn temple is that of the Greening. This happens every year on Greengrass. All of Eldath’s places of worship host a gathering of their priests in a celebration of Eldath’s gifts. The only real difference for the Iriaeben temple is that, since it is at a major crossroads, the temple tends to have more Freewalkers (traveling Eldathyn priests) during this festival than the typical remote sacred grove.


After reading this, it seems like you should consider a companion work along with this about an in-depth analysis of Eldath, too! That would be awesome.

I've long considered writing the "bibles" for the different faiths, but I constantly go back and forth on that.

Best regards,





Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring
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TheIriaeban
Master of Realmslore

USA
1047 Posts

Posted - 08 Nov 2020 :  20:07:54  Show Profile Send TheIriaeban a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Firstflow and the Greening are from Faiths and Avatars. However, I believe that everywhere that Firstflow is celebrated, it would be done in a different manner so how it is done in Iriaebor is my creation.

I created Springtide both as a way of incorporating Eldath's temple in Iriaebor life (flooding of the Chionthar has been mentioned several times but nothing in depth has come out) and as an anchor for the Captain of the Chionthar contest. I posted the Captain of the Chionthar in another thread here in the Forums (I believe it was the Sports in the Realms thread).

As for the companion work, I don't believe it is necessary. Eric's published works on the Faerun Pantheons has that covered. In fact, if Eric ever decides to read my finished product, he is going to find his fingerprints all over it. Besides Faiths and Avatars, Cloak and Dagger is another major source of information. That is really what this project is: taking Ed's and Eric's dots and connecting them to form the picture that is Iriaebor.

"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."

My FR writeups - http://www.mediafire.com/folder/um3liz6tqsf5n/Documents
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cpthero2
Great Reader

USA
2260 Posts

Posted - 09 Nov 2020 :  00:10:56  Show Profile  Visit cpthero2's Homepage Send cpthero2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Senior Scribe TheIriaeban,

So when are you anticipating that work being published? I'm definitely looking forward to that!

Best regards,






Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring
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TheIriaeban
Master of Realmslore

USA
1047 Posts

Posted - 09 Nov 2020 :  00:40:57  Show Profile Send TheIriaeban a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I am hoping to have it done by Christmas. Depends on how much life lets me work on it.

"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."

My FR writeups - http://www.mediafire.com/folder/um3liz6tqsf5n/Documents
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cpthero2
Great Reader

USA
2260 Posts

Posted - 09 Nov 2020 :  00:47:56  Show Profile  Visit cpthero2's Homepage Send cpthero2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Senior Scribe TheIriaeban,

I would be happy to offer a set of eyes to help "edit" it, if you like. I am not a professional editor at all, but I know I like to get a second set of eyes on things, so I figured I would offer (by the way, no insult meant, just a friendly offer).

Best regards,





Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring
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wildeman
Seeker

USA
73 Posts

Posted - 10 Dec 2020 :  15:34:25  Show Profile Send wildeman a Private Message  Reply with Quote
TheIriaeban,
I've recently become interested in Iriaebor as a location, so your product would be of great interest to me. So I was wondering how your timeline to publication is going?

Also, looking over the table of contents you provided, I didn't see anything specifically concerning the history/backstory that concerns the Shadowking and the related elements. Will that be included in some way?

I'm excited to see your efforts come to fruition and plan on being near the front of the line to purchase my copy.
Be well.
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TheIriaeban
Master of Realmslore

USA
1047 Posts

Posted - 10 Dec 2020 :  17:59:35  Show Profile Send TheIriaeban a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I doubt it will be ready by Christmas and I am not sure how long their submission process takes so release date is unknown. I am also working on a new map of the place to include the locations from Mark Anthony's novels (it would appear that he didn't refer to the existing FRA map when he described things in the novels). If I can't get the map done in a timely manner, I will very likely just put it in my file drop since there won't be any artwork in there (there is at least one region map in there already since those are easy enough to modify -- Paint 3D ftw).

As for the Shadowking stuff, I am definitely incorporating the Zhentarim takeover of the city (the stuff that happens to the characters in the books only gets a gloss over since the city at large would very likely not know of the specifics). Is there a specific time period you are look at Iriaebor? I am writing this as a "State of Iriaebor" at the end of 1371. Given what I am planning to have in the Timeline, you will be able to rewind that back to an earlier date. I also have a section now for the 5E time period.

"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."

My FR writeups - http://www.mediafire.com/folder/um3liz6tqsf5n/Documents
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wildeman
Seeker

USA
73 Posts

Posted - 12 Dec 2020 :  00:39:21  Show Profile Send wildeman a Private Message  Reply with Quote
TheIriaeban,
The adventure I'm trying to create is set at the current time. If you are planning a section that covers the broad strokes from 1371 to 1493... significant happenings, named individuals that matter specifically, etc... that would be excellent.

Iriaebor is a relatively new location for me, so I'm just starting to learn about it. The Shadowking and the Shadowstar artifact has caught my attention, but it all started with the Talifir, Ffolk, the Moonshaes, Dragonrise Keep, and the Red Dragon herald.
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TheIriaeban
Master of Realmslore

USA
1047 Posts

Posted - 12 Dec 2020 :  16:58:33  Show Profile Send TheIriaeban a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The thing about 5e Iriaebor is that it is kinda wide open. There was an earthquake there in 1484 and then a series of them in 1487 so that would allow a DM to really do anything they like with its layout. Much like the Spellplague, the Second Sundering hugely disrupted trade. The farms that feed the town were generally ok but the merchants were losing their minds, again. It really wasn't that long ago (the gold elves that moved to Iriaebor as part of The Return can easily remember it) that the Spellplague shattered the relative calm that Bron had achieved and put the merchants at each other's throats simply because they were going into survival mode. The Second Sundering was causing this again but with things calming down and stability returning to the markets, Iriaebor of the early 1490s is pretty close to what it was like just prior to the Zhentarim take over (early 1360s).

Terg Melz is the current Lord of Iriaebor. He was selected by the Golden Table in 1451. With tensions between merchants very high, he is leaning heavily on the temples (they are all still there) and the Guardian Wizards Guild. The leader of the GWG is Turpan Dauntrael (you can find out more about this family in the 2e Secrets of the Magister page 79). They are working together to maintain order but open fighting occasionally breaks outs. The Golden Table is even considering going back to the "Bron Laws" where any fight between merchants causes both of them to forfeit all their property and goods in Iriaebor to the city.

Does that help?

"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."

My FR writeups - http://www.mediafire.com/folder/um3liz6tqsf5n/Documents
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wildeman
Seeker

USA
73 Posts

Posted - 13 Dec 2020 :  22:21:26  Show Profile Send wildeman a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Wow, that's very interesting... I'm not exactly sure about "helpful" because I'm not totally sure what I'm looking for or in need of just yet... but all info is good info. So thank you.

I'm a little interested in their laws concerning taxes/fees on goods passing through the town. Laws concerning smuggling... perhaps to avoid paying taxes/fees. On the maps it looks like the Trader's Road ends at Iriaebor. Do a lot of the caravans going to Baldur's Gate use river bargers to go from Iriaebor to Baldur's gate?

I'm still curious about the Shadowking and all that's attached to that lore, but I haven't read to two Harpers novels that deal with that yet.

I guess that's it for now... knowing the 1360s and 1490s are very similar will be very helpful.

Thanks!
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TheIriaeban
Master of Realmslore

USA
1047 Posts

Posted - 12 Jun 2021 :  20:54:50  Show Profile Send TheIriaeban a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I have put together some laws for Iriaebor and I would like to get your feedback. Here is what I have now:

The laws of Iriaebor were codified centuries ago not long after the government was founded. Named the Principles of Commerce, they have been modified several times over the centuries to take into account various circumstances. The Principles of Commerce are currently:
• Everyone within one day’s ride of Iriaebor is subject to these Principles.
• Anyone accused of violating any of the Principles of Commerce must be granted a hearing held by one of the City Magisters.
• Rulings made by City Magisters are subject to review and alteration only by the High Lord of Iriaebor.
• Sedition against the government of Iriaebor is expressly forbidden. Those convicted of this offense may be punished by imprisonment, banishment, or even death. City Magisters have discretion for sentences with the High Lord of Iriaebor reviewing the case and punishment before the punishment is carried out.
• Acts that negatively affect the free flow of trade are expressly forbidden. That includes but is not limited to blockades, seizure of or damage done to the means of transportation (wagons, barges, etc.) for goods. Members of The Shield or Guardian Wizards Guild are exempt as long as these actions occurred as part of their duties to protect Iriaebor and its people.
• Theft or seizure of goods is expressly forbidden. Those convicted of this offense will be sentenced to imprisonment in the Dungeons. The length of imprisonment is at the discretion of the City Magisters. Members of The Shield or Guardian Wizards Guild are exempt as long as the seizure of goods was done at the direction of a City Magister as part of a judgement.
• Forgery or misrepresentation of either documents or goods is expressly prohibited. Forgery includes but is not limited to fake letters of mark, coinage containing less than the normal amount of precious metal (gilded lead coins as an example), glass gems, or livestock not of the stated lineage. Those convicted of this offense may be punished by imprisonment or banishment. City Magisters have discretion for sentencing in these cases.
• Slavery is expressly forbidden. Any and all individuals subject to these Principles are inherently free. Any individual convicted of attempting to enforce servitude upon another individual shall be sentenced to imprisonment in the Dungeons for five years per offense, served consecutively. Incarceration and forced labor as the result of a Magister’s judgment is exempt.
• Murder is expressly forbidden. Killing in self-defense or the defense of another is allowed if an investigation by The Shield/ Guardian Wizards Guild concludes that there was sufficient provocation. Members of The Shield/Guardian Wizards Guild are exempt as long as the death occurred as part of their duties to protect Iriaebor and its people. The penalty for individuals convicted of murder is death.
• Assault is expressly forbidden. Individuals may defend themselves or come to the defense of others without being charged if an investigation by The Shield/Guardian Wizards Guild concludes that there was sufficient provocation. Members of The Shield/Guardian Wizards Guild are exempt as long as the assault occurred as part of their duties to protect Iriaebor and its people. The penalty for individuals convicted of assault is at the discretion of the City Magisters.
• Magic used to alter the state of mind of an individual for any reason is expressly forbidden. Those convicted of this offense will have all of their goods and property forfeited to the city and will be banished from Iriaebor. The individual or group harmed by this magic will be paid compensation derived from the sale of the offender’s confiscated goods and property. Only individuals that have received pre-approval of this magic by the Lords of Iriaebor and are working directly for the city at the time are exempt.
• Magic use outside a personal residence may only be used for the following purposes: construction/warding, general entertainment, healing/curing, and defense. Members of recognized city temples and individuals specifically empowered by the city are exempt.
• Using magic to provide structural support for a structure is expressly forbidden. Individuals convicted of this offense will have their property seized and the offending structure torn down at the individual’s expense.
• Individuals who have conspired with others to commit any of the above offenses will be considered Co-conspirators. Co-conspirators, if convicted, will suffer the same punishment as their convicted brethren in crime. If there are multiple convicted brethren, then all will suffer the maximum punishment handed down to any of their brethren.
• An individual whose punishment is determined to be banishment who is subsequently found within one mile of the walls of Iriaebor will be punished by death.
Please note that the current method of execution is hanging.



"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."

My FR writeups - http://www.mediafire.com/folder/um3liz6tqsf5n/Documents
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TheIriaeban
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Posted - 14 Jun 2021 :  20:01:55  Show Profile Send TheIriaeban a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Since the proposed laws have had no feedback and are thus perfect in every way, I thought I would include a completed entry to show what will be in this document. I plan to have it on DMs Guild by the end of July. I am looking into getting a new city map created so I am not sure if that can be completed by then.

The Sign of the Dreaming Dragon
Tavern/Inn
At the far west end of the Tor sits The Sign of the Dreaming Dragon. It consists of an old, three-story building, small stable (it is only large enough for four horses), and a large garden. The door to the inn has a slightly faded signboard above it showing a green dragon sleeping contentedly on top of a treasure hoard. There is also a stout, wooden stable door about 25 feet to the south of the inn’s door.

The Dragon’s regulars start showing up around sunset and before long the common room is filled with the clinking of mugs as well as laughter and song. The inn is run by a halfling couple named Estah and Jolle and this has led to most of the city’s gnomes and halflings making the Dragon their favorite tavern. With this being the closest tavern to the Iriaebor Opera House, the performers and assorted stage crew have made the Dragon their favorite as well. The overall affect is that the place has become the meeting place of friends with strangers welcome as long as they do not interfere with the fun and comradery of the others. If a stranger joins in with the general frivolity of the place over several visits, they will quickly be considered one of the group.

The Place
Behind the iron-banded entry door, the two-story common room has a bar made of polished wood on one side and a great fireplace the other. The room is well lit by oil lanterns and candles and has many tables, both round and rectangular, with a mix of chairs and benches. The tables have bright cloths spread on them and there is a board hung on the wall with the prices for drinks. Overall, the common room feels very homey and inviting.

Next to the bar is a staircase leading to the second-floor balcony rooms and on to the third-floor rooms. On the west wall is a door that leads to a private dining room that extends over the edge of the Tor and is supported by a maze-work of thick oak beams anchored quite securely in the cliff face. There are several windows, each of which has a set of shutters.

The private dining room has a window on the west wall, the door from the common room on the east wall, and a small fireplace on the north wall. To allow private access from the kitchen, there is a door in the southeastern corner of the room. There is a heavy oaken table and some chairs near the center of the room. Hidden beneath the table is a secret trap door that opens onto the support beams below.

The kitchen is located behind a door behind the bar. The large kitchen also has a private staircase to the other levels of the inn. There is a door to the inn’s large garden in the southwestern corner of the kitchen and an iron-bound and barred door to the stable in the kitchen’s southeastern corner.

The inn’s basement is a single level that is access by the staircase in the kitchen. It is here that Estah ages her home brewed ale. It is also used as storage for the various wines, ales, and other needs for the inn.

The stable is a two-story affair with a standard hayloft above the stalls (accessed via a ladder). There are pegs and such on the wall for hanging bridles, saddles, and other horse tack. To help prevent fires, Estah has cast a continual light spell (on a stone) to provide light with the stone being partially covered at night with a heavy blanket to dim the light for the horses. The very stout wood entrance door is securely barred unless a horse is being let in or out.

The inn has a garden that is much larger than would be expected on the Tor of Iriaebor (its diagonal length is about 120 feet.) Estah, being a priest of Eldath, has planted a variety of trees, shrubs, and plants. This allows her to create various poultices and herbal medicines (it is not unknown for those in the know to seek her out for help instead of going to the Moontower.) The garden is surrounded by a 10-foot-tall stone wall that has a small, overgrown wrought-iron gate in the southwest corner. That hidden gate opens onto the alley between the garden and the building housing Give Me Wings to Fly.

The Prospect
The Dragon is not a place to go if you want quiet. It is, however, a great place to find some truly outstanding singing and storytelling. Impromptu competitions between friends over who is a better singer or storyteller (with the others in the common room as the judges) are common with virtually all bets being who is going to pay for the next round. Because of this, it is a great place to learn a new tale or song (it is not uncommon for the Bard of Iriaebor or one of the Court Minstrels to be spotted here.)

For those that are looking for a place to rest, the general noise dies down around midnight. Jolle, his cudgel, and any remaining regulars will make sure that things don’t get out of hand and start to die down around then so that the inn can close for the night soon afterwards.

The Provender
The Dragon is run by only Estah and Jolle so patrons are expected to get their own food and drink from the bar. Regulars are well accustomed to this and will bring an order of drinks back to their table. Estah and Jolle’s daughter Pog is starting to help her mother in the kitchen more but her brother Nog is still too young to meaningfully help and will typically be in the kitchen with his mother and sister. Drinks are available at any time from sunrise to midnight, but meals will only be available at sunrise, highsun, and sunset.

Estah is known for her delicately seasoned stews (a favorite is one made with the Chionthar Silverback fish) and roasts with gravy. She will occasionally get a shipment of mushrooms from Hardbuckler that is used to season a gravy for cuts of beef served on slices of Lakkon’s dried bread that have been known to bring a tear to the eye of travelers on the road contemplating their evening meal of hardtack. Meals are ordered at and served from the bar with water provided for those that have not decided to pay for a separate drink.

The Dragon is also the only place in Iriaebor that gnomes and halflings can find foods they consider as delicacies: thalimvur and bhaerulb. Thalimvur is maggots fried in maple syrup and bhaerulb is a mealworms and onion curry. Estah prepares one of these once every couple of months in addition to the night’s regular meal. Human regulars typically avoid their gnome and halfling friends on those nights.

The Prices
Rooms are 6 gp a night and includes all meals as well as stabling if needed and there is room. If the inn’s stable is already full, the traveler will have to make their own arrangements for their horse(s). It is for this reason that most guests will be those traveling on foot.

Meals, for those that are not guests, run 4 sp each. As mentioned previously, meals come with water with other drinks costing extra. Various wines and ales are available at standard prices with Estah’s own brew of a foamy, red ale costing 2 sp.

DM’s Lore
Estah purchased the inn towards the end of 1350 DR. In early 1360, not long after Jolle and Estah were married, the tower next door exploded during an attack by unknown forces. Luckily for inn’s owners, the explosion was focused to the south which resulted in not only the destruction of that tower but also two other towers to the south. The inn itself had only some minor damage.

Almost immediately afterwards, people that were in the area of the three towers reported that the area seemed to be haunted by those that perished that night. What no one knows is that it was Grand Illusionist Nathlar who was making the area seem haunted because he wanted to create a better hidden and more comfortable hideout than what he currently had. Since it was an illusionary haunting, no cleric or paladin was successful at clearing the area. The city then claimed ownership of the properties.

The remains of the broken towers were an eyesore so when the owners of the inn offered to purchase the area and turn it into a garden, the city was more than happy to sell it to them at a reduced cost and even agreed to substantially reduce the property tax for the land. Nathlar was pleased to hear of these plans and the hauntings seemed to decrease after a “ghost” told Estah and Jolle that all they wanted was a simple memorial plaque. The area was quickly turned into a walled garden with a memorial plaque dedicated to the Cablemnor family and Nathlar was able to create his hideout in the undamaged tower subbasements with a secret entrance on the outer garden wall at the end of an alley.

"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."

My FR writeups - http://www.mediafire.com/folder/um3liz6tqsf5n/Documents
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TBeholder
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Posted - 15 Jun 2021 :  09:43:54  Show Profile Send TBeholder a Private Message  Reply with Quote
What's the historical perspective?
Iriaebor was for a long while dominated by competing merchant houses accepting restraint only because escalation is bad for business.
While it's still not clear whose influence produced those fancy spires with whole web of catwalks and bridges...

What would be a "close enough" known example of their starting point? Delzimmer, methinks.
Then moving in "more sophisticated" direction as the town grew would be affected by examples of... what's on its roads?
South: Amn.
East: these ports on Sea of Falling Stars are the whole point. So...
Sembia? It fits well with the general shape of power: merchant houses that suffer from constant infighting until they are sick of it enough to accept some mostly-impartial authority.
But Sembia is also big, it produces and exports many things, rather than just caravan supplies and services. There's a lot to feed growth.
For "more civilized" influences?
Turmish? Perhaps even Ravens Bluff (which was shaped into its "mature" form as a personal project of one high priestess of Waukeen, after all), except without a crowd of adventurers they won't go for knightly orders and be less gung-ho in general.
And then there's Westgate as a constant "don't end up like them, kids" example.
While it's still not clear whose influence produced those fancy spires and web of catwalks...

People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch
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sleyvas
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Posted - 15 Jun 2021 :  14:22:44  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by TheIriaeban

I have put together some laws for Iriaebor and I would like to get your feedback. Here is what I have now:

The laws of Iriaebor were codified centuries ago not long after the government was founded. Named the Principles of Commerce, they have been modified several times over the centuries to take into account various circumstances. The Principles of Commerce are currently:
• Everyone within one day’s ride of Iriaebor is subject to these Principles.
• Anyone accused of violating any of the Principles of Commerce must be granted a hearing held by one of the City Magisters.
• Rulings made by City Magisters are subject to review and alteration only by the High Lord of Iriaebor.
• Sedition against the government of Iriaebor is expressly forbidden. Those convicted of this offense may be punished by imprisonment, banishment, or even death. City Magisters have discretion for sentences with the High Lord of Iriaebor reviewing the case and punishment before the punishment is carried out.
• Acts that negatively affect the free flow of trade are expressly forbidden. That includes but is not limited to blockades, seizure of or damage done to the means of transportation (wagons, barges, etc.) for goods. Members of The Shield or Guardian Wizards Guild are exempt as long as these actions occurred as part of their duties to protect Iriaebor and its people.
• Theft or seizure of goods is expressly forbidden. Those convicted of this offense will be sentenced to imprisonment in the Dungeons. The length of imprisonment is at the discretion of the City Magisters. Members of The Shield or Guardian Wizards Guild are exempt as long as the seizure of goods was done at the direction of a City Magister as part of a judgement.
• Forgery or misrepresentation of either documents or goods is expressly prohibited. Forgery includes but is not limited to fake letters of mark, coinage containing less than the normal amount of precious metal (gilded lead coins as an example), glass gems, or livestock not of the stated lineage. Those convicted of this offense may be punished by imprisonment or banishment. City Magisters have discretion for sentencing in these cases.
• Slavery is expressly forbidden. Any and all individuals subject to these Principles are inherently free. Any individual convicted of attempting to enforce servitude upon another individual shall be sentenced to imprisonment in the Dungeons for five years per offense, served consecutively. Incarceration and forced labor as the result of a Magister’s judgment is exempt.
• Murder is expressly forbidden. Killing in self-defense or the defense of another is allowed if an investigation by The Shield/ Guardian Wizards Guild concludes that there was sufficient provocation. Members of The Shield/Guardian Wizards Guild are exempt as long as the death occurred as part of their duties to protect Iriaebor and its people. The penalty for individuals convicted of murder is death.
• Assault is expressly forbidden. Individuals may defend themselves or come to the defense of others without being charged if an investigation by The Shield/Guardian Wizards Guild concludes that there was sufficient provocation. Members of The Shield/Guardian Wizards Guild are exempt as long as the assault occurred as part of their duties to protect Iriaebor and its people. The penalty for individuals convicted of assault is at the discretion of the City Magisters.
• Magic used to alter the state of mind of an individual for any reason is expressly forbidden. Those convicted of this offense will have all of their goods and property forfeited to the city and will be banished from Iriaebor. The individual or group harmed by this magic will be paid compensation derived from the sale of the offender’s confiscated goods and property. Only individuals that have received pre-approval of this magic by the Lords of Iriaebor and are working directly for the city at the time are exempt.
• Magic use outside a personal residence may only be used for the following purposes: construction/warding, general entertainment, healing/curing, and defense. Members of recognized city temples and individuals specifically empowered by the city are exempt.
• Using magic to provide structural support for a structure is expressly forbidden. Individuals convicted of this offense will have their property seized and the offending structure torn down at the individual’s expense.
• Individuals who have conspired with others to commit any of the above offenses will be considered Co-conspirators. Co-conspirators, if convicted, will suffer the same punishment as their convicted brethren in crime. If there are multiple convicted brethren, then all will suffer the maximum punishment handed down to any of their brethren.
• An individual whose punishment is determined to be banishment who is subsequently found within one mile of the walls of Iriaebor will be punished by death.
Please note that the current method of execution is hanging.






"Within one days ride"..... by wagon, by horse, by giant eagle?

On the mind control thing, possibly an allowance for leniency in the even someone uses magic in the defense of the city or its citizenry.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas

Edited by - sleyvas on 15 Jun 2021 14:34:00
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Wooly Rupert
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Posted - 15 Jun 2021 :  15:28:17  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
For any fantasy setting, unless there is a strong reason not to, I'm always going to assume that "one day's ride" refers to riding a horse. It's generally the default, aside from walking.

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sleyvas
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Posted - 15 Jun 2021 :  23:10:02  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

For any fantasy setting, unless there is a strong reason not to, I'm always going to assume that "one day's ride" refers to riding a horse. It's generally the default, aside from walking.



In our world, but the realms is different. I only mention it because it can enhance the flavor of the text to add these kind of quantifiers. Perhaps one might want to say its "by giant eagle" or "by pegasi" or by "rothe pulled wagon", etc.... and if by horse, by warhorse or riding horse (which I don't recall if there's a movement difference between these in the rules in the various editions, but there probably should be)?

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Wooly Rupert
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Posted - 16 Jun 2021 :  02:15:06  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

For any fantasy setting, unless there is a strong reason not to, I'm always going to assume that "one day's ride" refers to riding a horse. It's generally the default, aside from walking.



In our world, but the realms is different. I only mention it because it can enhance the flavor of the text to add these kind of quantifiers. Perhaps one might want to say its "by giant eagle" or "by pegasi" or by "rothe pulled wagon", etc.... and if by horse, by warhorse or riding horse (which I don't recall if there's a movement difference between these in the rules in the various editions, but there probably should be)?



I said "For any fantasy setting" horses are the default. That most certainly applies to the Realms -- sure, there are other options, but almost any time someone speaks of mounted travel, they're talking about horses. Horses are more common than the exotic mounts and more people know how to ride them. It's a fairly common skill, horseback riding.

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TheIriaeban
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Posted - 17 Jun 2021 :  00:53:12  Show Profile Send TheIriaeban a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Pretty much what Wooly said. Technically, there should be a set of landmarks that designates Iriaebor's boundaries but I am lazy enough to not want to create and define those given how much I have already had to come up with for this thing.

Besides, while it says "a day's ride", The Shield actively patrols out to 2 days ride and if someone does something against the Principles within that area, The Shield patrol is going to act. Since Iriaebor is a fairly benevolent power, none of the merchants, residents, or small communities are going to complain. Now, they may have wanted to when Lord Cutter was in charge and very likely reached out to Berdusk for assistance. Had Lord Cutter's rein gone on for much longer than it had, it is very likely that a group of cities/organizations would have done something.

Edit: Oh, the mind control magic thing. There is an exclusion laid out for those working for the city. They just need pre-approval (which the Inquisitors, Warders, and Staves of the Guardian Wizard's Guild already has).

"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."

My FR writeups - http://www.mediafire.com/folder/um3liz6tqsf5n/Documents

Edited by - TheIriaeban on 17 Jun 2021 00:58:25
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