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Belnick
Acolyte

2 Posts

Posted - 06 Oct 2020 :  12:49:40  Show Profile Send Belnick a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
41 books? in 42 days, information overload.....so have a few questions and statements.
Before I managed to read the books: Homeland to Gauntlgrym, but lost interest.....and I refused to read about Drizzt and some random "new" friends in the books after that. It was long time ago and now found companion series and decided to restart and did it with Audiobooks, I still ignored the books that did not have bruenor/catti brie etc so I dont know why Drizzt changed to thinking of lust over love as he stayed virgin for what? 80-100 years? as Drizzt mentioned over and over that he would never want to have sex with anyone for sex alone, never without love, but I guess it was "all men fail" or whatever from the writer :P
edit:: I had nothing to listened to so I forced my self through the 4 books about dahlia bs i had missed and only guen part and jarlaxle were interesting...did not care at all about dahlia cheating on drizzt with his former worst enemy.
I was glad drizzt never slept with dahla again after Entreri had tainted her tho. dahlia and entreri fit togheter, but now when entreri no longer is lawful evil, but good, I think he is too good for dahlia lol

so donno where to start, but It will be a wall of text lol....It is also just my opinions and me maybe have to VENT something i got annoyed over etc sorry :o
hopefully im not making anyone angry with my thoughts, it is just my personal thoughts after all :P

*does RA Salvatore use ghostwriters? and then just sign his name on it? Or does he forget what he wrote before?
will be a few points on that later on.

*WHAT THE "#" happened to the warlock "child"???? Effrein? Jarlaxel was bringing him in to help with the host tower rebuild in Luskan, did RA Salvatore forget about that thread??? does the insane elf girl dalia(yes she is still insane) even know that her child is alive? did anyone tell her? If so why were the readers not involved in that??

*What the #"# happened to Doum'wielle Armgo? another thread RA Salvatore forgot??? Did she return to her mother now when the sword did not rule her actions????

*Was it ever explained why Drizzt lost his ability to levitate? He kept darkness globe and fairy fire, but not levitate which all drow can do, but limited on how many times a day, unless they are nobles and have the house emblem.
Unless it was hundreds of drow nobles that levitated up when hunting Catti Brie, Drizzt and Entreri when they fled the drow city :P

*Handmaidens of Lolth used to be horrible demons that not even those high priestesses in the highest favor of the Lolth dared to summon unless it was something very serious they needed to ask.
Now in later books they are like Crowley from the tv show Supernatural and follow random drow around like puppy crowly follow after the winchesters.....wtf?? how about they throw some deadly spiders on the summoners just for fun when they are leaving like good old times?

*Driders are unthinking monstrosities that just remember how they fought when they were alive which would benifit if you turn a good fighter into a Drider.
Now in later books Driders suddenly have intelligence and can speak and are no longer pure monsters? like wtf?

*Resurrection, soooo I know you can do this as priest in baldurs gate games, but in the books it seems there only was zombie or "animate dead" I think it is called, but SUDDENLY in later books all drows can now resurrect anyone who died???? Why not resurrect Amber greece then? or any other that have been killed thru out the series?
Pedo priest of selune Entreri killed can easily be resurrected then as well etc etc?
Are these suddenly changes something that have to do with a game a or something? as that would be dumb, what is written is written. It would be like the nerf superman in a game because he is too OP and because of that they remove his ability to fly and because of that he cant fly in the comic books anymore......books and game are not the same, they are separate. Let a Balor be dangerous in the books even if they become as dangerous as a mouse in the games....
or maybe someone is forcing RA Salvatore to do all these changes? or RA Salvatore forgets what he wrote before?

*Aegis Fang, Wulfgar's hammer used to be a telepathic call back, but later on it was weirdly changed to only come when Wulfgar said "Aegis Fang" out loud and then in the last few books it changed again and this time the hammer only came when Wulfgar worded "Tempus!"....this something to do with multiple ghost writers that dont know what each others have written? RA Salvatore forgetting or a silly game change forcing a change in the books?

*Menzoberranzan drow populations
10 000 to 20 000 in 2000 years???
we went from 230 000 to 7 800 000 000 in 2000 years according to wikipedia if to be trusted(lol)
did Menzoberranzan sacrifice children 200 to 1? only matron mothers that was allowed to give birth? drow females can only pop 1 child out every 100 years?
Matron mother baenre was 2000 years old and only had 10 children....so 1 child every 200 years???? She hated sex?
Malice do urden only had 6 children in her 500 year old life! that is almost 1 per 100 year....but then she could get pregnant on will with the hulk weaponmaster of house Armgo?? and Malice was a promiscuous nymphomaniac even compared to other matron mothers. It does not make sense
Baenre fled surface with another 10 000 drow "refugees" 2000 years ago and now they only 20 000???

*Cattie Brie reaction to when drizzt was lost and did not know what was real and what was not.....
She knew Drizzt did not know what he was doing when he attacked her, thinking she was a demon and still after Catti Brie had immobilized drizzt, made him 100% harmless she said that if drizzt tried something like that ever again she would utterly kill him....how is that a woman that love someone who have a known mental disorder???? Ra Salvatore not understanding how love works perhaps? It was just another wtf moment....She claim that she loved drizzt, but had no problem to threaten to murder him if he acted on his delusions again.......If your mother forget who you are due to being old/senile and she attacks you, would you you threaten to murder your mother after you disabled/calmed her ???? It made no sense at all....maybe she was scared, but to threaten her disabled husband that she would kill him is insane in it self.....maybe she wanted to bang Grompth and saw this as a way out....self defense and then go see how Grompth taste......or RA Salvatore messed up?

*high/normal drow priestesses suddenly have an ability of telekinetic hammers they can throw/hit? never seen before, but then suddenly in the last few books they are used a lot and even used house wars in flashbacks with zaknafein.....a new priest spell invented for games and forced into the books?

*the zaknafein flashbacks, just me that felt meeeh over it? 60% was replay of what we already knew....only thing that was great, imho was how Jarlaxle lost his hair, step by step :P lol irl at those parts making my dog look at me thinking me nuts :P

*Penelope, eww, her disgusting attempts trying to get Catti Brie to cheat on Drizzt with filthy Grompth in a way to show Cattie Brie how SHE live....and how Cattie Brie seem tempted even when it was before Grompth psionic intrusions had started....

*Penelope again, cheating on her husband for real, it was no longer just lust like her marriage allowed, she clearly loved Wulfgar and he clearly love her in a way which mean she now cheats on her husband Dowell as it is no longer about a release and pleasure, but about emotions....
Open marriage I get, it is not cheating if they both agree to it as long as it stays with sex only, like how Penelope said it was the first time she seduced Wulfgar.....ofc we only have the words of Penelope, Wulfgar never asked Dowell before he pounded Penelope.....how many times have we heard a cheater with a ring claim that "we have an open marriage" :P
I dont like Penelope.

*Yvannel baenre, like wtf? suddenly she was named Yvannel? they kept talking about Yvannel and I had no "#"# idea who they talked about, until they mentioned she lived for two thousands years etc...
Same with other matron mothers, when did they get complicated names? and not just Matron Baenre, Matron Malice....when did it become Matron Triel Banrea?

*Glyths, also something new invented in the last few books and something they added in zaknafein story to pretend it existed before, which we already know it did not, like they are trying to rewrite history by changing what is facts, like what putin did with the school history books in his very first term as president.(not going political, just an example)

*Regis/Spider "new" father dead? We never found out if he got his life back in order?

*Catti Brie "new" parents not there to see their grand child??

*Bruenor left his birthmother as he left it?? she hated Bruenor for killing and stealing the real soul of her child(like all those who rebirthed killed the real soul in that body that was birthed.)
ofc wulfar killed 2 children because his first failure.....must have traumatized that mother, having the ppl helping her give birth smashing the head in on her new born

*Drizzt flower power? wtf?? Im a martial artist, ive been doing martial art 2/3 of my life, but even I felt this Kwai Chang Caine/Kane with master Poke instead of master Po and oneness was way over the top...im a david carradine fan, but come on?
How is Melikkiiki thinking of Drizzt going flower power and ignoring her who gave him this new life with all his friends back? By suiciding him self with "oneness" he did not go to Mellikkiikilki when spider golem struck.
Drizzt no longer a follower of Meillikkikiki then? He is an atheist monk?

*the gods, why are the goodly gods so pathetic? while the "evil" gods keep helping by sending minions etc we never see the good gods send angels/solars/planetars to fight the demons and such.....
in 41 books where does these divine creatures come and help? Closest i can think of was Cadderly getting "blessed", but where are the higher plane creatures? Watching and eating pop corn?

*All the repeating of stories we read before or even what we just read in the last book......
"Aegis Fang slammed into the skull and...........wulfgar tribe attacked ten towns bla bla bla..........adopted father bla bla bla.....forged Wulfgar the magnificent hammer"
"Icingdeath ate........the wonderful blade......bla bla bla.....Wulfgar Drizzt fought a white dragon......bla bla bla.....treasure......bla bla"
etcetcetc have to skip every time :P

*Is Regis a rapist? using gem on girls? or only once in Luskan(the time he was there with wulfgar)? Which never led to sex that time, but if he so easily did this to the bar prostitute in Luskan it seems like this was a common thing with Regis, like he had done this to girls many times before
talking rapists we have Ofc Kimmuriel when he raped Dahlia, but I cant feel any sympathy at all for that vile elf woman.....

* Dahliia is described as being just over 30 years old and she had a 20 year old son at the time she were described like that which mean she was raped at age 11? 12? and gave birth at age 12-13? Did not know elfs were fertile that young when they lived for many centuries, I would assume maybe around 30yo at earliest....
After she thought she killed her son, the years up to her "just above 30 years old", the 15? years she had there she "studied" with the wizards for "long" time and also studied sentient artifacts "a lot", calling her self an expert and also learned how to fight??? and not just n00b fighting, but how to fight like one of the best in the entire world.....all done in 15 years??? not to mention all the sex and murders of her "lovers" she squeezed in to that time frame???? makes no sense....she is an elf and I would believe it we were talking 50-60 years perhaps, but not 15....

she also know "a lot" about vampires as Few is full of them......she have lived a life of 200 years in 15 years?

Same with Entreri, he is written in the books as killing people with rocks when he was 14 as he could not afford any weapons and then when he is ~30 he is as good as one of the best drow warrior that have ever existed?????? He once said he sold his soul or something to a devil to get the skills he had(or it was a Entreri internal thinking that we read), but we never got more information on that....are all skills from entreri just magic given?
Or how could a human who train for 10 years be as good as a drow that train with other drow for 40+ years? Even to be as good as the best drow?

*ending, why did RA Salvatore not write 1 more page so we could see the reunion between Drizzt, his wife, father Zaknafein and child of Drizzt? RA Salvatore is gonna write a whole new series of 3-4 books which starts where this ended? or is there a 4th book?



Edited by - Belnick on 06 Oct 2020 12:52:16

CorellonsDevout
Great Reader

USA
2536 Posts

Posted - 15 Oct 2020 :  04:48:15  Show Profile Send CorellonsDevout a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I won't respond to all your points, but a few things:

RAS has a tendency to do his own thing, ignoring well-established lore if it doesn't work for him. This is fine to do at your own table, but if you're writing professionally (and are basically the WotC cash cow) you should be a little more responsible, imho. Bob has also been writing in the Realms for decades, so it makes sense that he would forget things even he had written, but maybe some fact-checking?

The novels (not just the Drizzt novels, but many FR novels) will reflect changes in the game, or be used to shift to the next edition (such as the Avatar and Sundering series), and sometimes authors are directed what to include certain things (that is my understanding, anyway).

I have been under the impression for a while now that Bob has a thing against the FR gods (and religion in general), which I think is why the evil gods get more attention. He even ignores the other gods in the drow pantheon. He has said that Drizzt isn't the only goodly drow, but he completely ignores the Eilistraeens. I think Bob is projecting his bitter experiences with Catholicism into the Realms. Catti-brie suddenly became a zealot, and said that Mielikki decrees goblins must be killed, including the babies. This makes Drizzt question Mielikki. For one thing, being a follower of Mielikki himself, Drizzt should have known that such a decree is outside Mielikki's dogma. She does not promote genocide. But instead, he just turns away from her (ie, he's the "enlightened one", and Catti is the "dangerous religious zealot"). It basically sends the message of, "see how bad religion is?" which really doesn't work in the context of the Realms. Bob is projecting here. True atheism in the Realms is exceedingly rare, as the gods are very real (their existence is fact). So it's more non-theist than true atheist, but Bob is basically using Drizzt as the moral high ground for his projection. Bob has had plenty of opportunities to bring in the Eilistraeens, especially with the recent shift among the drow, but he doesn't, because for whatever reason, he doesn't like her. So, he's showing the negative side (Lolth), but the "good side" is without a god. This really doesn't work in the Realms.

I myself have wondered about Effron and Doumwi'elle (ep?). The last time we saw her, she was not in a good place.

I too would have liked at least an extra page or two of the last book in order to see the reunion between them all. There are also some unanswered questions that I have a feeling will remain unanswered, even if Bob writes more. As of now, there are no new Drizzt books coming that we know of. The novel line ended, and Bob had managed to work out a deal with HV for this last trilogy, but as for future novels...we'll see. I kind of hope the series is over, despite the fact I would have liked to have seen the reunion.

btw, there are two threads that discuss the book:

http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=23597

http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=23594

Sweet water and light laughter
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Belnick
Acolyte

2 Posts

Posted - 15 Oct 2020 :  13:15:08  Show Profile Send Belnick a Private Message  Reply with Quote
**I won't respond to all your points, but a few things:**

thx for replying, I dont care if a reply is negative or positive, Im interested what others thinks about it and willing to discuss both sides, if I can :P

**RAS has a tendency to do his own thing, ignoring well-established lore if it doesn't work for him. This is fine to do at your own table, but if you're writing professionally (and are basically the WotC cash cow) you should be a little more responsible, imho. Bob has also been writing in the Realms for decades, so it makes sense that he would forget things even he had written, but maybe some fact-checking?**

I agree, but that is why I thought he might use ghost writers that write most of it and RA Salvatore fill in the story parts he wanted, but you are saying that he might actually forgot what he himself wrote(created)?

**The novels (not just the Drizzt novels, but many FR novels) will reflect changes in the game, or be used to shift to the next edition (such as the Avatar and Sundering series), and sometimes authors are directed what to include certain things (that is my understanding, anyway).**

"THE GAME" is there a specific game you are talking about or is it any d&d within Wizards of the Coast?
You are saying that the novels will cause changes into the game, but it seem like the reverse here? That changes into the game force changes into the books?
And that is something that annoys me :P but like comics there games comes FROM the comics I guess the novels of the Wizards if the Coasts comes from from the game? So in comics the stats are written in stone as that is how the comics character/world was created and changes in games will not change the comics, but in the novels from Wizards of the Coast it comes from the game? So game changes will change the novels? meeh imho, do the changes in the game for balance or whatever, but dont force changes into the novels because of it

**I have been under the impression for a while now that Bob has a thing against the FR gods (and religion in general), which I think is why the evil gods get more attention. He even ignores the other gods in the drow pantheon. He has said that Drizzt isn't the only goodly drow, but he completely ignores the Eilistraeens. I think Bob is projecting his bitter experiences with Catholicism into the Realms. Catti-brie suddenly became a zealot, and said that Mielikki decrees goblins must be killed, including the babies. This makes Drizzt question Mielikki. For one thing, being a follower of Mielikki himself, Drizzt should have known that such a decree is outside Mielikki's dogma. She does not promote genocide. But instead, he just turns away from her (ie, he's the "enlightened one", and Catti is the "dangerous religious zealot"). It basically sends the message of, "see how bad religion is?" which really doesn't work in the context of the Realms. Bob is projecting here. True atheism in the Realms is exceedingly rare, as the gods are very real (their existence is fact). So it's more non-theist than true atheist, but Bob is basically using Drizzt as the moral high ground for his projection. Bob has had plenty of opportunities to bring in the Eilistraeens, especially with the recent shift among the drow, but he doesn't, because for whatever reason, he doesn't like her. So, he's showing the negative side (Loath), but the "good side" is without a god. This really doesn't work in the Realms.**

Im an Atheist, I was born into Christianity like most people in my country, we are baptised in the church when we are given our names, but as soon as I was of legal age(18) I left the church, I had also studied Satanism(LaVey) since i was 15. Satanism felt much like how i live my life, but I never considered my self a satanist, but the Atheism and how you support your self and your inner strength that is in Satanism fit me.....also their the worst sin is Stupidity...so i loved that :o
What Im getting to is that im an Atheist, but I do not hate anyone for their religion, I might think some are sheep, but that is my personal feeling which im willing to discuss with anyone, but I do not attack them for their religious believes. If people need religion to be able to pass through this life, then let them. I see the anti Christianity more and more, especially on the news from USA, so I get what you mean with RA Salvatore using his personal beliefs....It is very common with hollywood writers as well now days, in most tv shows and movies they hate on religions..... I dont want to move this into politics, but I see where you are going. Personally I was not really interested in the Eilistraeens, dancing drows, right? :o like how Scandinavian "witches" dances nude in the moon light? ;o
Mielikki supporting genocide got me going "hmmm?" as well, I thought she was a lawful good, but found out later she was neutral good which was quoted like this:
"They did good for goodness' sake, rather than being directed to by law or by whim. Such characters would obey the law or break it when they felt it would serve a greater good."
so i went with it, but I ofc have only read the drizzt novels

**I myself have wondered about Effron and Doumwi'elle (ep?). The last time we saw her, she was not in a good place.**

I re listened to the last 6 books, I skipped the "boring" parts and caught 1 line where it say that Dahlia knew Effron had gotten a room and settled in to the host tower of the arcane, but nothing about Doumwi'elle.... I saw someone ask ra Salvatore no twitter what happened to Doumwi'elle, but Ra Salvatore did not reply, nor did any of his followers, I guess that was a thread he just forgot ? :(She was despicable, but I feel everything she did could in a way be blamed on the sword, Dahlia was disgusting the entire time of her free will.
I wish there were a short redemption arc(ark?) for Doumwi'elle, we see her face up with her mother etc...


**I too would have liked at least an extra page or two of the last book in order to see the reunion between them all. There are also some unanswered questions that I have a feeling will remain unanswered, even if Bob writes more. As of now, there are no new Drizzt books coming that we know of. The novel line ended, and Bob had managed to work out a deal with HV for this last trilogy, but as for future novels...we'll see. I kind of hope the series is over, despite the fact I would have liked to have seen the reunion.**

Indeed, It reminds me of some of the latest hollywood movies now days, they just ignore the epilogue....lets say the heroine or hero of the story have a huge fight with her/his parents, and she/he leave on an adventure and after the "saga" is over we see the heroine/hero go on a bus toward her/his home, but we never get to see the conclusion, we never get to see her/his reunion with the parents etc.... we used to get that in movies before and that is how I felt in this last book, like a missing page or something :P

**btw, there are two threads that discuss the book:

http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=23597

http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=23594**

thx, but this was discussion for the entire serie, not just the last one :)

btw did you have any reply on the resurrection part? Zak was brought back without a body, so why cant they bring back Amber or others?

Btw2, what happened to Kimmuriel? I listened to the book 2 times and still did not get it, he is caught, chained, put on display on a blue disc with a mindflyer up his brain and then one of the matron mother daughter is tortured to death by being put in a bath, forced to be turned in a fly/worm hive, but what happened to Kimmuriel? Did he deal his way out? Did the mind flayer wipe his memory?

Again thx for answering some or my questions :)

Edited by - Belnick on 15 Oct 2020 13:21:43
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader

USA
2536 Posts

Posted - 15 Oct 2020 :  23:56:00  Show Profile Send CorellonsDevout a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
I agree, but that is why I thought he might use ghost writers that write most of it and RA Salvatore fill in the story parts he wanted, but you are saying that he might actually forgot what he himself wrote(created)?


He's basically said as much lol.

quote:
"THE GAME" is there a specific game you are talking about or is it any d&d within Wizards of the Coast?
You are saying that the novels will cause changes into the game, but it seem like the reverse here? That changes into the game force changes into the books?


By "the game", I mean D&D, specifically Forgotten Realms. There are often changes made when they shift from one edition to the next (often with a big event such as Time of Troubles, Spellplague, Sundering). It's a bit of both--they reflect each other. The novels are often used to present the changes made in the game, but game changes will also affect the novels.

quote:
Im an Atheist, I was born into Christianity like most people in my country, we are baptised in the church when we are given our names, but as soon as I was of legal age(18) I left the church, I had also studied Satanism(LaVey) since i was 15. Satanism felt much like how i live my life, but I never considered my self a satanist, but the Atheism and how you support your self and your inner strength that is in Satanism fit me.....also their the worst sin is Stupidity...so i loved that :o
What Im getting to is that im an Atheist, but I do not hate anyone for their religion, I might think some are sheep, but that is my personal feeling which im willing to discuss with anyone, but I do not attack them for their religious believes. If people need religion to be able to pass through this life, then let them. I see the anti Christianity more and more, especially on the news from USA, so I get what you mean with RA Salvatore using his personal beliefs....It is very common with hollywood writers as well now days, in most tv shows and movies they hate on religions..... I dont want to move this into politics, but I see where you are going. Personally I was not really interested in the Eilistraeens, dancing drows, right? :o like how Scandinavian "witches" dances nude in the moon light? ;o
Mielikki supporting genocide got me going "hmmm?" as well, I thought she was a lawful good, but found out later she was neutral good which was quoted like this:
"They did good for goodness' sake, rather than being directed to by law or by whim. Such characters would obey the law or break it when they felt it would serve a greater good."
so i went with it, but I ofc have only read the drizzt novels


I love Eilistraee, and she's more than just dancing in the moonlight lol. She's about hope and redemption for the drow (the Starlight and Shadows novels does a good job with her lore). But my main point was that Bob was trying to show that Drizzt wasn't the only goodly drow, just the one who got away, yet he completely ignores the Eilistraeens (and even the Vhaeraunites, though Vhaeraun is technically "evil"). He was trying to show they weren't all evil, yet he completely disregarded a whole society of goodly drow.

I don't care if Bob is Catholic or atheist in real life--the problem he's projecting his bitterness to real world religion into a world where, 1) the gods are real and a part of the setting, and 2) the religion of the Realms isn't the same as the monotheistic religion most of the western world is used to. Sure, there are evil deities in FR (Lolth), but the problem is that, 9/10, he shows how religion is bad (like how he uses Catti to declare goblins must die because Mielikki said so).

I highly recommend reading other Realms novels :)

quote:
I wish there were a short redemption arc(ark?) for Doumwi'elle, we see her face up with her mother etc...


Or at the very least, a hint of her whereabouts. I also hated the end for Tos'un. I had hopes for him.

quote:
thx, but this was discussion for the entire serie, not just the last one :)


They still may be of interest to you.

quote:
btw did you have any reply on the resurrection part? Zak was brought back without a body, so why cant they bring back Amber or others?

Btw2, what happened to Kimmuriel? I listened to the book 2 times and still did not get it, he is caught, chained, put on display on a blue disc with a mindflyer up his brain and then one of the matron mother daughter is tortured to death by being put in a bath, forced to be turned in a fly/worm hive, but what happened to Kimmuriel? Did he deal his way out? Did the mind flayer wipe his memory?

Again thx for answering some or my questions :)


As for Zak, I hadn't actually thought much about the fact he didn't have a body lol. I was just thrilled to see his return.

In regards to Kimmuriel, that was something I--and many others--have wondered. If I remember correctly, someone said something about it on FB, so I'll check when I go on again and see if I can find it.

Sweet water and light laughter
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