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 Verdant Commarth beyond Ulgarth?
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emorton
Acolyte

2 Posts

Posted - 01 Oct 2020 :  00:38:26  Show Profile Send emorton a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
From the Afterword on page 191 of Elminster's Forgotten Realms: "Aye, even I, who can tell thee undergarment fashions from Frozenfar to verdant Commarth beyond Ulgarth, know not it all."

My question: What is verdant Commarth? An internet search for Commarth turns up the name of a Sembian general, but nothing about a verdant place "beyond Ulgarth."

BadCatMan
Senior Scribe

Australia
369 Posts

Posted - 01 Oct 2020 :  01:32:36  Show Profile Send BadCatMan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Beyond Ulgarth is usually south of it, in the Utter East. But otherwise Commarth is new to me. Ed might be referring to something one of his novels for the Double Diamond Triangle Saga, but AFAIK, it's completely new.
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Utter_East

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Ayrik
Great Reader

Canada
7315 Posts

Posted - 01 Oct 2020 :  02:52:36  Show Profile Send Ayrik a Private Message  Reply with Quote
"Verdant" means "green". It most often describes plants or land which grows plants or things which are just richly lush and green.

But it's also what happens when authors have too much thesaurus. In this context Elminster is describing General Commarth as green - inexperienced, unsophisticated, lacking the savvy of true combat veterans.

[/Ayrik]
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
34213 Posts

Posted - 01 Oct 2020 :  05:16:24  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik

"Verdant" means "green". It most often describes plants or land which grows plants or things which are just richly lush and green.

But it's also what happens when authors have too much thesaurus. In this context Elminster is describing General Commarth as green - inexperienced, unsophisticated, lacking the savvy of true combat veterans.



...And this guy is associated with undergarments and said to be south of Ulgarth?

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Ayrik
Great Reader

Canada
7315 Posts

Posted - 01 Oct 2020 :  05:51:07  Show Profile Send Ayrik a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

...And this guy is associated with undergarments and said to be south of Ulgarth?

I make no attempt to explain (or excuse) Elminster's expansive knowledge of undergarment fashions, whether they're from the distant Frozenfar or from the "verdant" General Commarth beyond Ulgarth, or (it is implied) from anywhere and everywhere in between.

It's probably better to not delve too long nor too deeply on how Elminster acquired this detailed knowledge. Or on what compelled him to seek it in the first place.

Though even he admits that he cannot know it all.

[/Ayrik]
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emorton
Acolyte

2 Posts

Posted - 01 Oct 2020 :  20:08:10  Show Profile Send emorton a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thanks for all the prompt replies!
quote:
Originally posted by BadCatMan

Beyond Ulgarth is usually south of it, in the Utter East. But otherwise Commarth is new to me. Ed might be referring to something one of his novels for the Double Diamond Triangle Saga, but AFAIK, it's completely new.
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Utter_East

I read the Double Diamond Triangle Saga in an effort to glean more information about the Utter East but, alas, no mention of Commarth. As you say, Commarth is probably completely new (and seemingly unexplained).
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
9752 Posts

Posted - 02 Oct 2020 :  00:15:02  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Place from Abeir that switched over that didn't get detailed, because they didn't make it as far as Ulgarth? Just a thought.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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AJA
Senior Scribe

USA
547 Posts

Posted - 02 Oct 2020 :  00:32:39  Show Profile Send AJA a Private Message  Reply with Quote
If the reference is from Ed Greenwood Presents Elminster's Forgotten Realms, I'd say it's far more likely to be a vestigial remnant of Ed's original Realms before TSR dumped the Double Diamond series and Zakhara down there.

I suggest querying Ed on Twitter (but only on condition that you ask him to discuss in detail the good General Commarth's taste in undergarments first).


AJA
YAFRP

Edited by - AJA on 02 Oct 2020 00:33:27
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Ayrik
Great Reader

Canada
7315 Posts

Posted - 02 Oct 2020 :  00:51:32  Show Profile Send Ayrik a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Are you suggesting we need Volo's Guide to Undergarments of the Realms?

[/Ayrik]
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
34213 Posts

Posted - 02 Oct 2020 :  01:54:57  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik

Are you suggesting we need Volo's Guide to Undergarments of the Realms?



So long as Volo doesn't offer to model any of them... I, for one, prefer underwear models to be rather more feminine than Volo and considerably less hirsute.

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Thauramarth
Senior Scribe

United Kingdom
682 Posts

Posted - 02 Oct 2020 :  07:48:41  Show Profile Send Thauramarth a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
So long as Volo doesn't offer to model any of them... I, for one, prefer underwear models to be rather more feminine than Volo and considerably less hirsute.


Less hirsute? For someone who goes by the handle WOOLLY Rupert, thatís... cheeky... even for a giant hamster

Club Secretary of the Dragons on the Hill RPG Club of London, UK: http://dragonsonthehill.co.uk/.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
34213 Posts

Posted - 02 Oct 2020 :  13:53:26  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Thauramarth

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
So long as Volo doesn't offer to model any of them... I, for one, prefer underwear models to be rather more feminine than Volo and considerably less hirsute.


Less hirsute? For someone who goes by the handle WOOLLY Rupert, thatís... cheeky... even for a giant hamster



Ah, but I am not an underwear model!

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cpthero2
Master of Realmslore

USA
1774 Posts

Posted - 21 Oct 2020 :  20:14:58  Show Profile  Visit cpthero2's Homepage Send cpthero2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Acolyte emorton,

I believe Great Reader Ayrik definitely hit the nail on the head. I did some digging around and looked at the exact citations in the quoted material and came up with the following.

I believe what Elminster was saying in that quote is that he knew of all the undergarment fashions from every place in between two unknown or non-existant locations. Effectively, hyperbola regarding how profound his knowledge is regarding the well researched field of undergarments. ;)

The reason I come to that conclusion is that Frozenfar
quote:
"...did not have definable boundaries." It was sort of an unknown, specifically. Depending on from where you may hail, "The term "Frozenfar" was used by people across FaerŻn to include various areas. For example in Amn and the Inner Sea, the term "Frozenfar" referred to the city of Mirabar and everything north, including the Spine of the World mountains.[6] Sometimes the term "Frozenfar" also included the island of Ruathym.[7] However in the North, the term "Frozenfar" referred only to the lands north of the Spine of the World.[6] That was among the most commonly accepted usage.[3][8.]Yet others used "Frozenfar" to refer to all the lands of the North within which individuals could literally freeze to death during their travels.[4]


As to the Cult of the Dragon part of this, the Cult is well known for having many locations in which they operate, but it is largely in the north, with the most eastern location being in the far east of Faerun, in the Chessenta'ish area. The implication regarding General Commarth is that while the Cult is looking to be everywhere they can, they are most certainly not in the Ulgarth area, making Great Reader Ayrik's point spot on.

Nice determination Great Reader Ayrik!

Best regards,







Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring
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