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Originally posted by Seethyr


4. Are there other flying cities that crashed in off the charts regions we don't know about? That would be a fun homebrew. (hrmmm Maztica, Lopango, Anchorome, Katashaka anyone?)

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Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

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Originally posted by Seethyr


4. Are there other flying cities that crashed in off the charts regions we don't know about? That would be a fun homebrew. (hrmmm Maztica, Lopango, Anchorome, Katashaka anyone?)

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I think we've only gotten explicit information on like 6 or 7 of the flying enclaves, and even one of those is just a rumor.

I personally think it quite likely that they were scattered all over Toril. Once aloft, there was no reason for them to stay in one area.

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Originally posted by Seethyr

If you are planning on playing the adventure, by all that is holy, please stop reading now!

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2. Vecna???? Vecna was in the Realms at some point?

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Originally posted by Seethyr

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Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

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Originally posted by Seethyr


4. Are there other flying cities that crashed in off the charts regions we don't know about? That would be a fun homebrew. (hrmmm Maztica, Lopango, Anchorome, Katashaka anyone?)

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I think we've only gotten explicit information on like 6 or 7 of the flying enclaves, and even one of those is just a rumor.

I personally think it quite likely that they were scattered all over Toril. Once aloft, there was no reason for them to stay in one area.

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Well that certainly opens up a wealth of adventure sites, and incredibly interesting ones for higher levels at that.

I recently went back through Arcane Age's Netheril supplement and found dozens of ideas that could stretch into the modern age. I can't pick out though, if the flying enclaves mentioned in the sourcebook were the grand sum of all enclaves or not. I seem to remember a passage that said something like there being others off to the north. I wonder if others went in other directions.

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Originally posted by sleyvas

On other enclaves on other continents... between that and spelljammers, there's a lot of stuff we can do. That's why I'm surprised people keep going back to the same areas.

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Originally posted by sleyvas
Not that it would be amazing, but I've always suspected that the reason the "migration" to Halruaa happened was that there were already enclaves there and so people knew it was a place to head that they'd already explored and possibly even fortified. It might be interesting too if whatever smacked into Halruaa creating Lake Halruaa actually kept up a local weave when Mystryl's weave failed.

On other enclaves on other continents... between that and spelljammers, there's a lot of stuff we can do. That's why I'm surprised people keep going back to the same areas.

There is one thing I will say about rime of the frostmaiden that's irking me though. The idea that the harpers, the zhents, etc... have posted all kinds of spies up in Ten Towns is about as believable to me as the idea that elves fart (I mean, come on, we all know elves don't fart. They express scents that smell like maple and cinammon and stuff :-) ).

I'm also skipping ahead in the book and finding things that I find funny because we've talked about them here. Not that anyone stole an idea, just that we're using same tropes. I saw some stuff with a cloning chamber mentioned in an enclave and was like "I was talking about that last month". I think somewhere else there was an illusion coming to life.

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Originally posted by sleyvas


There is one thing I will say about rime of the frostmaiden that's irking me though. The idea that the harpers, the zhents, etc... have posted all kinds of spies up in Ten Towns is about as believable to me as the idea that elves fart (I mean, come on, we all know elves don't fart. They express scents that smell like maple and cinammon and stuff :-) ).

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Originally posted by Seethyr

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Originally posted by sleyvas

On other enclaves on other continents... between that and spelljammers, there's a lot of stuff we can do. That's why I'm surprised people keep going back to the same areas.

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Amen to this. That is part of what I love about Rime (and to a lesser extent Descent, even though in part it covers a highly explored area of the Realms).

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Originally posted by TheIriaeban

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Originally posted by sleyvas
Not that it would be amazing, but I've always suspected that the reason the "migration" to Halruaa happened was that there were already enclaves there and so people knew it was a place to head that they'd already explored and possibly even fortified. It might be interesting too if whatever smacked into Halruaa creating Lake Halruaa actually kept up a local weave when Mystryl's weave failed.

On other enclaves on other continents... between that and spelljammers, there's a lot of stuff we can do. That's why I'm surprised people keep going back to the same areas.

There is one thing I will say about rime of the frostmaiden that's irking me though. The idea that the harpers, the zhents, etc... have posted all kinds of spies up in Ten Towns is about as believable to me as the idea that elves fart (I mean, come on, we all know elves don't fart. They express scents that smell like maple and cinammon and stuff :-) ).

I'm also skipping ahead in the book and finding things that I find funny because we've talked about them here. Not that anyone stole an idea, just that we're using same tropes. I saw some stuff with a cloning chamber mentioned in an enclave and was like "I was talking about that last month". I think somewhere else there was an illusion coming to life.

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There was something about an illusion coming to life that was named Ry'mer. He hung out with a human, a wereleopard/werepanther, and a warforged. I believe they were somewhere near the Great Rift.

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Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I personally think it quite likely that they were scattered all over Toril. Once aloft, there was no reason for them to stay in one area.

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quote:

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Originally posted by sleyvas

Not that it would be amazing, but I've always suspected that the reason the "migration" to Halruaa happened was that there were already enclaves there and so people knew it was a place to head that they'd already explored and possibly even fortified. It might be interesting too if whatever smacked into Halruaa creating Lake Halruaa actually kept up a local weave when Mystryl's weave failed.

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Originally posted by George Krashos

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Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I personally think it quite likely that they were scattered all over Toril. Once aloft, there was no reason for them to stay in one area.

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Well, other than to feed themselves.

-- George Krashos

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Here’s the thing: at the height of the “empire” of Netheril, Netheril consisted of many enclaves, a lot of them what are now referred to as “flying cities” (which, yes, fly about and so are mobile), created by Netherese archwizards. They all had wards or mythals or other magic arrangements to alter their local environments to what the creators wanted (even if it was just tinkering with ambient temperature and acting as a local umbrella).

Looking back, we now refer to these enclaves as “High Netheril,” and the ground farms and forests and lakes that provided the enclaves with fuel and food and other raw materials as “Low Netheril.”

The city of Thultanthar (aka “Shade”) was one such flying city enclave among many, and despite their self-aggrandizing propaganda, not mightier than most other Netherese cities; its “Princes” were mighty Netherese archwizards, but not necessarily the mightiest. And they were the only enclave often found in Anauroch.

As most of the enclaves were mobile, they could travel nigh anywhere (that then-mighty elves, dragons, and giants wouldn’t react with hostility when they showed up, that is). So there needn’t be an Anauroch connection with Thultanthar, and Thultanthar isn’t Netheril, any more than, say, real-world Poughkeepsie is all of the United States. It’s logical that a surviving Netherese city not known to the wider public in Toril today would be “hidden” in a remote and inhospitable locale, or folk would have “found” and identified (and likely occupied) it long ago.
#Realmslore

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Originally posted by George Krashos

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Originally posted by sleyvas

Not that it would be amazing, but I've always suspected that the reason the "migration" to Halruaa happened was that there were already enclaves there and so people knew it was a place to head that they'd already explored and possibly even fortified. It might be interesting too if whatever smacked into Halruaa creating Lake Halruaa actually kept up a local weave when Mystryl's weave failed.

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Except that it was the "no flying enclave cities" Low Netherese who built skyships and travelled there.

-- George Krashos

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Originally posted by George Krashos

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Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I personally think it quite likely that they were scattered all over Toril. Once aloft, there was no reason for them to stay in one area.

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Well, other than to feed themselves.

-- George Krashos

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Originally posted by sleyvas

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Originally posted by TheIriaeban

quote:

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Originally posted by sleyvas
Not that it would be amazing, but I've always suspected that the reason the "migration" to Halruaa happened was that there were already enclaves there and so people knew it was a place to head that they'd already explored and possibly even fortified. It might be interesting too if whatever smacked into Halruaa creating Lake Halruaa actually kept up a local weave when Mystryl's weave failed.

On other enclaves on other continents... between that and spelljammers, there's a lot of stuff we can do. That's why I'm surprised people keep going back to the same areas.

There is one thing I will say about rime of the frostmaiden that's irking me though. The idea that the harpers, the zhents, etc... have posted all kinds of spies up in Ten Towns is about as believable to me as the idea that elves fart (I mean, come on, we all know elves don't fart. They express scents that smell like maple and cinammon and stuff :-) ).

I'm also skipping ahead in the book and finding things that I find funny because we've talked about them here. Not that anyone stole an idea, just that we're using same tropes. I saw some stuff with a cloning chamber mentioned in an enclave and was like "I was talking about that last month". I think somewhere else there was an illusion coming to life.

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There was something about an illusion coming to life that was named Ry'mer. He hung out with a human, a wereleopard/werepanther, and a warforged. I believe they were somewhere near the Great Rift.

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Lol, seriously? I make a reference to the wizard of Oz and this one's "the lion, the tin man, Dorothy"... guessing the illusion would be the scarecrow that develops intelligence? Just wondering if you know what that was in? If its an actual Faerunian realms reference, it would be better with a helmed horror or a nimblewright that gains free will.

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Originally posted by sleyvas

Seethyr,

So, in the other thread about spelljamming, I was just talking about the idea that the island known as the Ship of the Gods which had seemingly disappeared from 4e maps, and I was posing the idea that perhaps the spelljamming vessel previously used by the Mulhorandi gods known as the Matet was once again joined with the artifact known as the Beacon of Light from Volo's Guide to All Things Magical while on Abeir and that's possibly how all the godkings are now returned again as noted in the SCAG.

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Originally posted by sleyvas

That kind of got me thinking about the idea yet again that maybe the gods were over in Abeir in avatar/lesser avatar/manifestation type form, and I know you had written up that the Maztican gods weren't there, but I just thought about floating one idea your way, since everything is always uncertain narrator and seemingly you were fine with Intiri being over there. You had fleshed out Mount Mixhuacan as a possible spelljamming place up in the mountains. We've established what appear to be links between Qotal and Ubtao. Ubtao is missing and so is his whole city of Mezro.


This also got me to thinking about your entry of Mount Mixhuacan having these "natican lines" that form some kind of giant symbol/mazes/runes. What if the city of Mezro (which is also linked to mazes) is some kind of "spelljammer"/"plane travelling" city and its been transported here during the time that they were on Abeir? Maybe Qotal returned to his select people only in the city of Tukan when he was needed. Maybe he's been hiding out in Tehwaca the city of the gods while working against the other primordials (assuming that Ubtao is actually a primordial as the 4e campaign setting suggests and its not just another case of those in the know being wrong again). It would actually fit with the prophecies of Qotal returning as well.

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Originally posted by sleyvas

Similarly, I know in your maztica guide you also made a hint that the Maztican gods came to Maztica via "the Great Skyhome" pyramid ship also via wildspace. Why the heck not use this reference for something fun rather than tease it. Heck maybe both Kukul and Maztica are back, just like Ra is returned, because new "manifestations" of them all were sent over to protect their people. I could definitely get into more of "the gods are in their special cities and their priests have to bring them gifts to prove their subservience".

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Originally posted by Seethyr

quote:

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Originally posted by sleyvas

Seethyr,

So, in the other thread about spelljamming, I was just talking about the idea that the island known as the Ship of the Gods which had seemingly disappeared from 4e maps, and I was posing the idea that perhaps the spelljamming vessel previously used by the Mulhorandi gods known as the Matet was once again joined with the artifact known as the Beacon of Light from Volo's Guide to All Things Magical while on Abeir and that's possibly how all the godkings are now returned again as noted in the SCAG.

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Oh what a cool angle. There seems to be no better canonical explanation as to how they came back. Ao's will or somesuch? No matter what or why this seems like a nice vehicle to explain it away. I wish someone would ask Ed what exactly has become of the Beacon of Light these days.

quote:

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Originally posted by sleyvas

That kind of got me thinking about the idea yet again that maybe the gods were over in Abeir in avatar/lesser avatar/manifestation type form, and I know you had written up that the Maztican gods weren't there, but I just thought about floating one idea your way, since everything is always uncertain narrator and seemingly you were fine with Intiri being over there. You had fleshed out Mount Mixhuacan as a possible spelljamming place up in the mountains. We've established what appear to be links between Qotal and Ubtao. Ubtao is missing and so is his whole city of Mezro.


This also got me to thinking about your entry of Mount Mixhuacan having these "natican lines" that form some kind of giant symbol/mazes/runes. What if the city of Mezro (which is also linked to mazes) is some kind of "spelljammer"/"plane travelling" city and its been transported here during the time that they were on Abeir? Maybe Qotal returned to his select people only in the city of Tukan when he was needed. Maybe he's been hiding out in Tehwaca the city of the gods while working against the other primordials (assuming that Ubtao is actually a primordial as the 4e campaign setting suggests and its not just another case of those in the know being wrong again). It would actually fit with the prophecies of Qotal returning as well.

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I really fear touching on this because it gets me out of my element and delves into lands I know less about than Maztica by a factor of about 10000. I also fear getting trounced on by canon which doesn't seem to be a problem when I avoid the more cosmic sized and metaphysical issues and stick to the True World. Chult is popular and getting revisitied relatively often. Maztica, not so much.

On the other hand, you inadvertently brushed up against the reason I have yet to revisit Lopango. I want Mount Mixhuacan to have a good Spelljamming presence like I had originally done in 3e, but I am waiting for some official SJ rules so I can do a better job. If one of these "three old settings" does happen to be Spelljammer, I want to revisit this bigtime.

quote:

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Originally posted by sleyvas

Similarly, I know in your maztica guide you also made a hint that the Maztican gods came to Maztica via "the Great Skyhome" pyramid ship also via wildspace. Why the heck not use this reference for something fun rather than tease it. Heck maybe both Kukul and Maztica are back, just like Ra is returned, because new "manifestations" of them all were sent over to protect their people. I could definitely get into more of "the gods are in their special cities and their priests have to bring them gifts to prove their subservience".

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I know this concept was kind of a blatant rip off the Egyptian gods, but it seemed feasible. When I originally wrote about this, I wanted to somehow connect the current location of the Great Skyhome to an underwater (in the deepest of trenches) location near the dagon worshiping Shalarin of the Sea of Corynactis and somehow also work the titan sea-scorpionfolk race known as the palophonti in (as guardians perhaps - leading to a tie in with the CANON tlincalli deities Huoxopica and Ixtilli).

Anyway, pardon my bizarre ramblings here, you just entered areas that have been bouncing around in my brain for quite some time now.

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Originally posted by Prodigalson

I was wondering if they planned on using Vecna and the obelisks to do a time reset for the Forgotten Realms. They could reset to a different time, for instance back to an earlier time like prior to the Time of Troubles for the entire setting. It seems interestingly placed in every book for it to never be used for a cross-campaign idea.

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Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

I think, at most, the time travel thing is a future setup, and that the intent is for it to be a major part of a later adventure.

While I, personally, would prefer to see a reset to the Realms, I recognize just how problematic that would be -- and given the current design team's willingness to disregard prior canon (and their willingness to import from other settings!), there really isn't much need for them to do a reset. They're picking and choosing what canon to use or ignore as it is, and they already did the Sundering and launched the subsequent Era of Vagueness to refuse giving a definitive answer to anything.

There's really no benefit, given their current approach, to rebooting the setting.

Therefore, I think there's going to be some major nastybad that the PCs have to go back to Netheril to be able to defeat. Maybe they've got to get some item or spell from then, or maybe they've got to do some action that will stack things in their favor, later... Pick your plot from Chrono Trigger, it'll be one of those things. This is where my money is, on this one.

(This is not a bash, aside from bemoaning the current lack of information. There's more reason not to reboot than there is reason to reboot, and Chrono Trigger was an awesome game with a lot of time travel elements that likely did not originate in that game and that make sense to re-use)

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Originally posted by sleyvas

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Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

I think, at most, the time travel thing is a future setup, and that the intent is for it to be a major part of a later adventure.

While I, personally, would prefer to see a reset to the Realms, I recognize just how problematic that would be -- and given the current design team's willingness to disregard prior canon (and their willingness to import from other settings!), there really isn't much need for them to do a reset. They're picking and choosing what canon to use or ignore as it is, and they already did the Sundering and launched the subsequent Era of Vagueness to refuse giving a definitive answer to anything.

There's really no benefit, given their current approach, to rebooting the setting.

Therefore, I think there's going to be some major nastybad that the PCs have to go back to Netheril to be able to defeat. Maybe they've got to get some item or spell from then, or maybe they've got to do some action that will stack things in their favor, later... Pick your plot from Chrono Trigger, it'll be one of those things. This is where my money is, on this one.

(This is not a bash, aside from bemoaning the current lack of information. There's more reason not to reboot than there is reason to reboot, and Chrono Trigger was an awesome game with a lot of time travel elements that likely did not originate in that game and that make sense to re-use)

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Maybe someone else will go back in the past and cast Karsus' Avatar but choose a different target.... and that's how Talos came to be.

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Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:

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Originally posted by sleyvas

quote:

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Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

I think, at most, the time travel thing is a future setup, and that the intent is for it to be a major part of a later adventure.

While I, personally, would prefer to see a reset to the Realms, I recognize just how problematic that would be -- and given the current design team's willingness to disregard prior canon (and their willingness to import from other settings!), there really isn't much need for them to do a reset. They're picking and choosing what canon to use or ignore as it is, and they already did the Sundering and launched the subsequent Era of Vagueness to refuse giving a definitive answer to anything.

There's really no benefit, given their current approach, to rebooting the setting.

Therefore, I think there's going to be some major nastybad that the PCs have to go back to Netheril to be able to defeat. Maybe they've got to get some item or spell from then, or maybe they've got to do some action that will stack things in their favor, later... Pick your plot from Chrono Trigger, it'll be one of those things. This is where my money is, on this one.

(This is not a bash, aside from bemoaning the current lack of information. There's more reason not to reboot than there is reason to reboot, and Chrono Trigger was an awesome game with a lot of time travel elements that likely did not originate in that game and that make sense to re-use)

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Maybe someone else will go back in the past and cast Karsus' Avatar but choose a different target.... and that's how Talos came to be.

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I don't see WotC using a change the past option -- unless the quest is centered around preventing some major temporal change that would have undeniably catastrophic effects on the future. You start mucking around with something like that, you get paradoxes (I'll kill Karsus!) and people wanting to change time to their own benefit and things like that (Motley Lou!). Going the "bring some knowledge/long-lost item forward but not change anything" route keeps most of the potential time travel conundrums out of the equation.

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Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

You wouldn't even have to fake it, necessarily. Someone vanishes without a trace, and even divine inquiries* don't say where the person is? Death is a reasonable assumption.


*I'm assuming most deities wouldn't be able to say "oh, yeah, I can see this dude, 1800 years into the future."

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Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

If I was to run a post-Spellplague Realms, Halruaa would have never gone anywhere, and would would have weathered the Spellplague more or less intact (see my Five Companies Redux idea).

I'm not sure that a bunch of returned Netherese wouldn't be really disruptive. They've got a different approach to magic, they come from what is almost a different world, and some of them would have a hard time fitting into any society where they weren't on top and able to do whatever they pleased.

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