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Rinaldo
Acolyte
USA
10 Posts |
 Posted - 27 Aug 2020 : 02:41:45
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My gaming group is campaigning in the Forgotten Realms and we're thinking of starting a magical university but can't decide where to put it, so I thought about asking the most knowledgeable people on the net for their opinion. Some details:
Playing 3.5
Set before the Spellplague
The University will consist of six colleges:
College of Lore (mundane subjects)
College of Wizardry (general arcane magic)
College of Theology (dedicated to Azuth and Mystra)
College of Swords (dedicated to warmages)
College of Songs (bardic college)
College of Artifice (artificers from Eberron, which we're passing off as "ancient arcane secrets of Netheril")
The University is founded upon a full set of the Nether-scrolls, looted from the Netherese Library-Enclave of Blethered (We found the enclave drifting abandoned on the Astral Plain, all it's people dead or fled).
To recap, where would you put it and why?
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1842 Posts |
Posted - 27 Aug 2020 : 03:57:57
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| Waterdeep because if your group has a full set of the Nether Scrolls you're going to need the help of the Chosen and the Watchful Order to retain them. Not to mention all the resources and prospective students there. The other option is Silverymoon but it already has several academies. I wouldn't go with Cormyr because Vangerdahast would want exclusive access to the scrolls (IMO). |
I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
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Omenborn
Acolyte
Germany
16 Posts |
Posted - 27 Aug 2020 : 06:42:53
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I would place it either in Waterdeep or Baldurs Gate.
With the income from your University you can pay the Flaming Fist (if it is still active) for Protection. Also your Party will gain very much Students since Baldurs Gate is good accessible from the North (Waterdeep) and the South (Calimport,Lantan) by Sea and even Cormyr, Sembia, Westgate and the Citys around the Sea of Fallen Stars by the Trade Way. |
Some Adventure for Gold,
others for Fame,
ME i just like to KILL THING |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7968 Posts |
Posted - 27 Aug 2020 : 07:56:32
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Baldur's Gate is also conveniently located just a few hours away from Candlekeep.
Unlike Waterdeep, it isn't inconveniently located right on top of Undermountain and Underdark access.
And unlike Waterdeep, it doesn't get quite as cold in the winter.
Kind of like San Francisco vs Seattle. |
[/Ayrik] |
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see
Learned Scribe
235 Posts |
Posted - 27 Aug 2020 : 10:10:25
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| I, personally, would go with Saerloon, recruiting the Tower of Mysteries (a major temple of Mystra) and the House of the High One (a major temple of Azuth) in that city as powerful sponsor-protectors whose interests are fully aligned with the goal of disseminating magical knowledge. |
Edited by - see on 27 Aug 2020 10:10:57 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 27 Aug 2020 : 11:51:30
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| Wherever it is, once word gets out that there's a full set of Nether Scrolls there, you're pretty much done as an academy -- every spellcaster and their brother is going to be trying to lay claim to those scrolls for themselves and/or their faction. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11691 Posts |
Posted - 27 Aug 2020 : 13:02:39
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You kind of buried the lead with two things. A full copy of the Nether Scrolls and you found an empty Netherese Enclave in the Astral? I can't find any lore on an enclave named Blethered, and I don't see it amongst the best list I can find of enclaves
http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8458&SearchTerms=Netherese+Enclaves
So, I'm assuming its a homebrew enclave, which you're saying had a full copy of the Nether Scrolls and was some kind of Ancient Library as well. First off, the second word gets out, you're going to have to defend that enclave against predators (both human and monster) who want the Nether Scrolls AND the other books (but mostly the Nether Scrolls). Your best resort is to simply HIDE your enclave through misinformation for everyone except those who earn the highest tiers of trust within your academy (and most likely are at that point your own teachers). How best to do this? Well, the answer is right in front of you, in that you already have an empty enclave city in the astral filled with ancient books.
So, set aside modern day notions that you can walk up to a counter and get any book in that library within minutes. Instead make it that you must REQUEST said book officially, be approved of access to it via a committee of librarians, and the next day you will be presented with the book (possibly books if you are particularly trustworthy) by the local librarian. You will notice I haven't mentioned a city. That's because perhaps instead of setting up a large university using prime material plane real estate and then trying to defend such, you instead setup small campuses, spread out across the face of Toril and using local resources (such as local inns to provide housing). You then buy some local manor to serve as a local library of arcane books and purchase the services of some local teachers. Then SOME of those teachers are tested and deemed trustworthy enough to be librarians, but you don't let on how picky you are being about who is chosen for this service. In fact, you instruct them to complain about "the duty" of being a librarian so that other power seekers don't start sniffing around the truths of your school (it will happen mind you, just try and not blatantly advertise it). So, what's so special about being the librarian? Well, you then establish portals between these universities... but limited portals... in fact portals that can only pass texts back and forth (i.e. books made of paper, metal, dead skin, etc...). Each day, the librarian meticulously makes a list of what books they need in a ledger, for whom each book is to be loaned, the date, etc... and passes said ledger THROUGH the portal at a prescribed time, using a special key, and some special pass phrase that is specific to that individual (any mixup of which sends an alert to the true heads of the library). Furthermore, this portal should have to be opened from the other side (which also has its own key, passphrase, etc..). Perhaps even this passphrase is changed daily and is communicated magically via animal messenger, etc... This goes to some place that's not in any city anywhere. Perhaps its in some closed off underdark hole in the ground, or some cave in the mountains, etc... where there's a cadre of even more trusted librarians and a hidden library to which all these separate portals open. These librarians not only look at the compiled list, but they also gather the books and prep them for shipment (carried by a construct, or rather WITHIN a construct, made to use the portals... perhaps some kind of simple paper golem), magically scry the destination before sending the new books back to the other side with a crystal ball or similar, etc...
But things shouldn't end there, because what if this hidden library is discovered? It after all shouldn't be hard for someone to discover what the "remote" librarians are doing, and then they might setup a spell to track said portal's destination. So, the "hidden library" is simply a waystation which holds the most commonly requested, low level magic books. It also serves as a place for maybe Deneiran priests to sit there and scribe copies of books that are commonly requested (said Deneirans might be librarians). In fact, this hidden library might be a temple to Deneir. But more importantly, there's ANOTHER portal located here which is kept hidden even from the "trusted" librarians, except for the people that truly run the school. This portal connects to your astral netherese enclave, which becomes the place where you put your most carefully guarded books, etc... Thus, only your most trusted inner circle knows that you're keeping your copy of the Nether Scrolls in this Netherese Enclave, and only this most trusted inner circle is allowed to study such (because not everyone in the world needs to know you have such if you want to keep them). Thus, you have an academy that you can setup quickly by using the local resources in several cities, hidden through secrecy as to its actual extent, and not prone to the leadership whims of any one given city. If one of these remote libraries is invaded, you can destroy the portal (or simply deactivate it by removing the key which opens it at the main hub, or just simply quit opening it).
Along with this university being a collection of texts that you can pass along, perhaps you as well setup some kind of means for upper tier teachers to traverse from one academy to another in a rotation of some sort. This might also be done via teleportation portals. However, it might also be done with lower tier magics that enable simply faster transport between locations (i.e. something like shadow walk which enables several miles to be travelled in the real world for each mile traverse in shadow). Thus, you might have a teacher of invocation focusing on one school for a tenday's worth of lessons while a teacher of illusion focuses on another school and they swap out. If you provide these teacher's a dwelling for their family in each remote location, they might actually enjoy this, as his family "lives" somewhere pleasant at all times while he travels between say 3 schools (so for instance, the family may have a summer home in Silverymoon and a winter home in Tethyr and a spring home in Impiltur, and the teacher is home 1/3rd of the time, but his family is always somewhere nice... or his partner might enjoy travelling with him).
In the end, try to think up ways in which magic changes our traditional views of what a university might be like, and then factor in that your characters apparently aren't TIED to any specific liege, nation, etc... and thus they don't need to tie themselves down. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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TheIriaeban
Master of Realmslore
USA
1289 Posts |
Posted - 27 Aug 2020 : 14:22:58
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| What about working out a deal at Candlekeep? They would LOVE to have a copy of the Nether Scrolls. Tell them that if you are allowed to open up a school of magic there, they get to have unfettered access to the scrolls. That way, you get the protection of the 'keep AND maybe have access to other sources of magical knowledge, too. |
"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."
My FR writeups - http://www.mediafire.com/folder/um3liz6tqsf5n/Documents
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 27 Aug 2020 : 15:14:32
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quote:
Originally posted by TheIriaeban
What about working out a deal at Candlekeep? They would LOVE to have a copy of the Nether Scrolls. Tell them that if you are allowed to open up a school of magic there, they get to have unfettered access to the scrolls. That way, you get the protection of the 'keep AND maybe have access to other sources of magical knowledge, too.
I'm not sure that even they would want that level of trouble.
Honestly, I think the best option is to leave the Scrolls out of the equation, entirely. They're too much of a game changer -- you wouldn't have just single wizards coming for those, you'd have entire magical factions wanting to lay hands on them (Shades, Red Wizards, the Twisted Rune, etc), as well as powerful non-human casters like alhoon, beholder mages, dragons, etc.
Normal magical academies tend not to last long in the Realms -- adding in the most power magical items known to exist? Nope, that university will be lucky to make it to lunch time. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 27 Aug 2020 15:15:34 |
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1842 Posts |
Posted - 27 Aug 2020 : 15:31:24
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If you read the 2e supplement College of Wizardry you'll find that they had something very similar to the Nether Scrolls there so you may mine some ideas from there.
Wooly is correct that every powerful faction on the planet and beyond will want to snag the scrolls so secrecy is of the utmost importance. Your PCs may want to travel to Elmwood an consult Mystra (I believe the site I'm about to mention is near there). There's a glade near there that Mystra always looks over where she sometimes appears to those who pray to her for guidance. New priests of hers often make a pilgrimage there. |
I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
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Rinaldo
Acolyte
USA
10 Posts |
Posted - 27 Aug 2020 : 22:33:23
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First, thank you all for replying.
Secondly, we're quite well aware of how valuable the Nether Scrolls are and how every faction in the Forgotten Realms will want to get their hands on them but we do have a plan.
First we will the information in the Planus Mechanus to create our own Demiplane. This will be our hidden fortress and storehouse and where we will keep the Nether Scrolls (it was decided it would be best if the Scrolls never set foot on Toril again), and the majority of the books we found (by the way, the Library of Blethered was founded by, and dedicated to, Ioulaum). Instead we will use the Scrolls and books to develop our curriculum. Of course some of the books will be copied and brought to Toril for use in our own University Library (and for trade with Candlekeep).
As for the Enclave itself, it will be stripped of it's most valuable arcane and mundane objects and plane shifted to Toril. Not only is a floating University impressive as heck (giving major bonuses to our reputation), but it still has it's mythallor, and by using that we can use quasi-magic items to really hold down on expenses.
And thirdly, we're going to use the mythallor to raise a mythal over the enclave and ground University.
Arcanamach- I did think of Waterdeep (1st choice) and Silverymoon (2nd choice). We don't want the Chosen involved because they tend to take action without getting consent from others and have a bad habit of doing things "for your own good". I could see Khelben stealing the scrolls himself for various reasons. I actually own the College of Wizardry supplement from 2e (I believe that's where spellpools came from) but I haven't read it in decades. Thanks for reminding me.
Omenborn-I didn't think of Baldur's Gate and you have several very good points to consider, especially the Flaming Fist.
Aryk- Yeah, staying the heck away from Halaster and Undermountain is definitely a good idea.
Wooly Rupert-They can only come after us for the Scrolls if they know we have them. And we're not telling.
Sleyvas-Your right, Blethered is homebrewed by our GM. And we're not planning on telling anybody (including our teachers) for a long time. If anybody asks, we found the information in various abandoned places and tombs.
The Portal-Library sounds very complex and hard to make work practically, but it's something to think about.
Having a floating academy pretty much guarantees we won't be tied to any specific politcal polity and gives us freedom, although I bet we have to make an alliance with somebody sooner or later, probably the Lord's Alliance.
As another question, what powers would you want a mythal for a university to have?
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11691 Posts |
Posted - 27 Aug 2020 : 22:48:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinaldo
First, thank you all for replying.
Secondly, we're quite well aware of how valuable the Nether Scrolls are and how every faction in the Forgotten Realms will want to get their hands on them but we do have a plan.
First we will the information in the Planus Mechanus to create our own Demiplane. This will be our hidden fortress and storehouse and where we will keep the Nether Scrolls (it was decided it would be best if the Scrolls never set foot on Toril again), and the majority of the books we found (by the way, the Library of Blethered was founded by, and dedicated to, Ioulaum). Instead we will use the Scrolls and books to develop our curriculum. Of course some of the books will be copied and brought to Toril for use in our own University Library (and for trade with Candlekeep).
As for the Enclave itself, it will be stripped of it's most valuable arcane and mundane objects and plane shifted to Toril. Not only is a floating University impressive as heck (giving major bonuses to our reputation), but it still has it's mythallor, and by using that we can use quasi-magic items to really hold down on expenses.
And thirdly, we're going to use the mythallor to raise a mythal over the enclave and ground University.
Arcanamach- I did think of Waterdeep (1st choice) and Silverymoon (2nd choice). We don't want the Chosen involved because they tend to take action without getting consent from others and have a bad habit of doing things "for your own good". I could see Khelben stealing the scrolls himself for various reasons. I actually own the College of Wizardry supplement from 2e (I believe that's where spellpools came from) but I haven't read it in decades. Thanks for reminding me.
Omenborn-I didn't think of Baldur's Gate and you have several very good points to consider, especially the Flaming Fist.
Aryk- Yeah, staying the heck away from Halaster and Undermountain is definitely a good idea.
Wooly Rupert-They can only come after us for the Scrolls if they know we have them. And we're not telling.
Sleyvas-Your right, Blethered is homebrewed by our GM. And we're not planning on telling anybody (including our teachers) for a long time. If anybody asks, we found the information in various abandoned places and tombs.
The Portal-Library sounds very complex and hard to make work practically, but it's something to think about.
Having a floating academy pretty much guarantees we won't be tied to any specific politcal polity and gives us freedom, although I bet we have to make an alliance with somebody sooner or later, probably the Lord's Alliance.
As another question, what powers would you want a mythal for a university to have?
I had wondered if you would try to transfer the enclave itself across planes and use it for the school. Bear in mind that that will probably draw as much ire as the nether scrolls as well, in more than one way. Personally, I can't see any groundling city being happy with a floating enclave above it (unless its really small) unless they have certain controls over it or extreme benefits from it. Second, the enclave itself will be a draw for other power factions. The Shadovar were able to maintain hold over two of them (I don't think they had more than that), and even at that one of them got assaulted and taken out. Granted, maybe you're playing in a campaign where your players wouldn't have balked at the idea of taking on all of the returned Netherese, etc...
On the portal network setting up versus building your own demiplane... if you have problems working out a portal network only capable of passing books between a few locations because of maintaining the security.... all I can say is baby steps |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Rinaldo
Acolyte
USA
10 Posts |
Posted - 28 Aug 2020 : 02:03:41
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| The enclave just has too many advantages to ignore. One, it's going to put us on the map, for good or for ill. Yeah, it's going to attract enemies, but it's also going to attract potential students and teachers, as well as other staff. The quasi-magical infrastructure is intact, so we have water, plumbing,lighting, heating, and cooling, all of which will save us a ton of money trying to build it ourselves. The enclave will hold parts of all the colleges, but mainly the Lore College and Bardic College, as well as an aerial stables and skyship port (the enclave is 200 acres and can hold 2,000 people comfortably). We weren't going to fly it over any cities (unless we have to). I asked the GM about the Shadovar attacking, but he just made a joke about moving to "Shady Acres" (the bad side of town), so who knows. |
Edited by - Rinaldo on 28 Aug 2020 02:06:17 |
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see
Learned Scribe
235 Posts |
Posted - 28 Aug 2020 : 16:34:19
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200 acres? Really?
A circle 3,200 feet in diameter is 184.6 acres, which is pretty darn big by the standard of Realms cities. For example (checking against the Forgotten Realms Interactive Atlas), that's larger than any of Arabel, Berdusk, Hillsfar, Marsember, Mulmaster, Ordulin, Scornubel, Selgaunt, or Suzail. |
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Rinaldo
Acolyte
USA
10 Posts |
Posted - 28 Aug 2020 : 18:16:23
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Yep, big place. Plenty of room. And we haven't even explored the rooms under the city yet.
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1842 Posts |
Posted - 28 Aug 2020 : 19:20:21
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It sounds like your group has some power under its belt and your arcane casters are about to get a big boost (perhaps too big relative to the others in the party). I don't know what kind of DM you have but, according to Ed, the Nether Scrolls tend to drive their readers to madness. I think this is why the Netherese culture turned out the way it did, with so many of the wizards who were allowed access to them being eccentric (at best). Even Iolaum does not appear to have been entirely immune to this. I'm just throwing that out there as a potential warning but it depends on your DM.
I actually like the idea of bringing in an old enclave but I'd wait until your group is quite sure they stand a reasonable chance of holding onto it. Even if you have a gracious DM, it shouldn't be too easy to retain...you guys should really have to work hard to keep it.
The Chosen, in my opinion, will get involved regardless. I mean, it's a returning enclave. And I'd be willing to bet some of them would be informed directly by Mystra that the scrolls were in play. I'd say you're going to need help from them just to keep the more powerful/persistent factions at arm's length. But that's just my take on it if I were running such a campaign.
I'm trying hard to come up with an idea that is 'best' but I'm coming up short on it. You'll need LOYAL followers and many of them will need to be wizards, something I assume you won't have right away. Reading the scrolls before bringing the enclave to Toril is almost a must (and by as many in the group as are willing to do so). Developing spells and creating new magic items for security purposes is necessary as well.
Bottom line: If I were a player in this game I'd be thinking of all sorts of things to ensure success before revealing ourselves to the wider world. |
I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 28 Aug 2020 : 19:59:13
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If I had a floating Netherese enclave, I'd park it over water, someplace. It doesn't have to be that far out -- a few miles offshore would be far enough away from even the most concerned neighboring city, so long as you were away from the sea-lanes to their port.
Parking offshore means no one claims the land you're parked over; there's no territorial concerns and you're not causing any issues for anyone on the ground. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11691 Posts |
Posted - 28 Aug 2020 : 20:06:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinaldo
The enclave just has too many advantages to ignore. One, it's going to put us on the map, for good or for ill. Yeah, it's going to attract enemies, but it's also going to attract potential students and teachers, as well as other staff. The quasi-magical infrastructure is intact, so we have water, plumbing,lighting, heating, and cooling, all of which will save us a ton of money trying to build it ourselves. The enclave will hold parts of all the colleges, but mainly the Lore College and Bardic College, as well as an aerial stables and skyship port (the enclave is 200 acres and can hold 2,000 people comfortably). We weren't going to fly it over any cities (unless we have to). I asked the GM about the Shadovar attacking, but he just made a joke about moving to "Shady Acres" (the bad side of town), so who knows.
Yep, lots of advantages, and it will attract young wizards as well. It's also hard to keep ahold of. To put it in one perspective, there's a lot of sports teams that have a ton of advantages that lose to someone else who is willing to put in the effort to take it away from them. Just fair warning, because were I your DM you'd best have some security prepped way before you ever bring that thing over to the realms as a clarion call for all wizards to come and get it. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1842 Posts |
Posted - 28 Aug 2020 : 20:08:06
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| Don't forget that a floating island would be prime real estate for dragons. Oh yes, there will be dragons. Be on the lookout for cloud giants too (I'm assuming the generally good-aligned storm giants would leave you alone). |
I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
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SaMoCon
Senior Scribe
USA
403 Posts |
Posted - 28 Aug 2020 : 22:25:20
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If we are only being asked about where to set up a magic school then I would suggest Suldolphor in Calimshan. I consider Calimshan to be the most advanced, wealthy, & cultured human nation in Faerun that is secong in population size only to Mulhorand. The city of Suldolphor itself is considered necessary for both national trade & defense resulting in considerable efforts by the government at all levels to ensure the good order & safety of the metropolis. The city is East of Almraiven, the mecca of magical study in Calimshan known as the City of Spells, but is mostly independent from direct rule by the syl-Pasha. The city population is larger than Waterdeep's and more than 3 times larger than Baldur's Gate during the years covered by 3.xE (late 14th century to pre-Spellplague) and the general population of Calimshan has a tolerant to favorable attitude about spell casting.
Your players don't need to bring in the Nether Scrolls or a Netherese Enclave since either one would just make enemies of people, organizations, and nations that would otherwise be friendly or indifferent. Really, there is no need for such things if the PCs are already powerful enough to even think they can protect them from all comers. |
Make the best use of the system that's there, then modify the mechanics that don't allow you to have the fun you are looking for. |
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Rinaldo
Acolyte
USA
10 Posts |
Posted - 29 Aug 2020 : 03:27:08
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Archanamach- We have 5 players right now, and of those five, four wield arcane magic in one form or another, so most of us are getting a boost right now (I've already read the Arcanus Fundare!). And I always thought it was the advanced age and arrogance of the typical Netherese that did them in, not the magic itself...
I really DON'T like the idea of the Chosen getting involved, for reasons I said above. And if they do offer us a deal, I will vote no to that.
I still say the beast defence would be a mythal and maybe an army of constructs to help.
Wooly Rupert- The idea of putting the Enclave over water is a good one, but we're still going to need ground facilities somewhere.
SaMoCon- Calimshan is a bit too far away and I think too political to want to set up there.
Your ALL right about probably needing a small army to hold onto the enclave, but I'm hoping to use the Maior Creare to craft an army of construcs to use for defence. But right now we're on a quest to the planet Coliar in Realmspace to find a former archwizard whose now an archlich, one who actually studied at Blethered, to hopefully secure his help in raising a Mythal to protect us. After that, we're going to try to make a deal with a certain Tome Dragon in Candlekeep... |
Edited by - Rinaldo on 29 Aug 2020 03:41:17 |
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Rinaldo
Acolyte
USA
10 Posts |
Posted - 29 Aug 2020 : 03:34:57
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Oh, and here's the basic structure I worked out for the College of Wizardry (or College of Magic, i still haven't made up my mind). Anything I missed or need for a school of magic? Any ideas are welcome.
College of Magic
Faculty of the Arcana
Department of Arcane Knowledge (arcana)
Department of Spell Casting
Department of Magical Artifacts (how to make and use scrolls
and potions, and identify other magic devices)
Department of the History of Magic
Faculty of the Elements
Departmnet of Fire
Department of Water
Department of Earth
Department of Air
Department of Ice
Faculty of the Ars Magica
Department of Abjuration
Department of Enchantment
Department of Necromancy
Department of Illusion
Department of Transmutation
Department of Divination
Department of Evocation
Department of Conjuration
Department of Metamagic (advanced course)
Faculty of Mysteries
Department of Magical Phenomena (spellfire, portals, mystic
maelstroms,etc...)
Department of Arcane Research (inventing new spells)
Department of Natural Magic (magical plants and animals)
Department of Exotic Magic (eastern magic, elven magic,
etc...)
Department of Cosmology (the Inner and Outer Planes)
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Edited by - Rinaldo on 29 Aug 2020 05:00:52 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 29 Aug 2020 : 04:53:01
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I think Arcane Research is redundant -- I would think that new spells would fall under the existing categories. Why have a separate person to think up a better fireball instead of having the fireball expert cover that?
Not sure there's going to be a lot of use for History, aside from "you could find long-lost spells and nifty magic goodies in this spot..." |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11691 Posts |
Posted - 29 Aug 2020 : 10:34:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinaldo
Archanamach- We have 5 players right now, and of those five, four wield arcane magic in one form or another, so most of us are getting a boost right now (I've already read the Arcanus Fundare!). And I always thought it was the advanced age and arrogance of the typical Netherese that did them in, not the magic itself...
I really DON'T like the idea of the Chosen getting involved, for reasons I said above. And if they do offer us a deal, I will vote no to that.
I still say the beast defence would be a mythal and maybe an army of constructs to help.
Wooly Rupert- The idea of putting the Enclave over water is a good one, but we're still going to need ground facilities somewhere.
SaMoCon- Calimshan is a bit too far away and I think too political to want to set up there.
Your ALL right about probably needing a small army to hold onto the enclave, but I'm hoping to use the Maior Creare to craft an army of construcs to use for defence. But right now we're on a quest to the planet Coliar in Realmspace to find a former archwizard whose now an archlich, one who actually studied at Blethered, to hopefully secure his help in raising a Mythal to protect us. After that, we're going to try to make a deal with a certain Tome Dragon in Candlekeep...
Just to note, raising a mythal often involves a sacrifice of one of the casters if it has any decent level of use. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Rinaldo
Acolyte
USA
10 Posts |
Posted - 01 Sep 2020 : 02:03:36
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Wooly Rupert- Arcane Research would be various secret projects.
Sleyvas- If I have to take one for the team, so be it. I'm about ready for a new character anyway.
What prestige classes do you think a magical university would teach? |
Edited by - Rinaldo on 01 Sep 2020 02:04:30 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 01 Sep 2020 : 03:00:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinaldo
Wooly Rupert- Arcane Research would be various secret projects.
Fine, but it's still redundant to consider it a separate thing. Again, why have a separate person to build a better fireball when you could use the fireball person you already employ? It's not like teachers/professors do nothing but teach -- especially with a university approach; an instructor may only have a couple of classes each day, and is likely to have at least one day free for planning/grading papers/other academic pursuits. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Rinaldo
Acolyte
USA
10 Posts |
Posted - 01 Sep 2020 : 03:24:03
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| Your partly right, but didn't go all the way. The instructor making the new fireball would be working on his own time for his own reasons (he's a pyromaniac), the researcher would be working on it because the University wants it done. There is a difference. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 01 Sep 2020 : 04:57:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinaldo
Your partly right, but didn't go all the way. The instructor making the new fireball would be working on his own time for his own reasons (he's a pyromaniac), the researcher would be working on it because the University wants it done. There is a difference.
Why couldn't the instructor do it because the University wants it done? |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Rinaldo
Acolyte
USA
10 Posts |
Posted - 03 Sep 2020 : 01:09:28
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| Woooly Rupert. Because a seperate researcher would be able to focus all their attention on the project at hand, instead of dividing their focus. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 03 Sep 2020 : 02:59:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinaldo
Woooly Rupert. Because a seperate researcher would be able to focus all their attention on the project at hand, instead of dividing their focus.
Unless you hire a person to research one spell and one spell only, they're going to be dividing their focus.
You're better off going with the person who knows his spells backwards and forwards and can teach it to others, rather than hiring some yahoo who may not know it as well. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11691 Posts |
Posted - 03 Sep 2020 : 12:45:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Rinaldo
Woooly Rupert. Because a seperate researcher would be able to focus all their attention on the project at hand, instead of dividing their focus.
Unless you hire a person to research one spell and one spell only, they're going to be dividing their focus.
You're better off going with the person who knows his spells backwards and forwards and can teach it to others, rather than hiring some yahoo who may not know it as well.
While I do have some trouble seeing this place surviving (but I have no idea of the power level of the campaign or what the DM has given them), I can understand his concept of a separate group for research. Unfortunately, I view magic design through the lens that I've seen with my own work in real life. In many ways its similar to IT. Sometimes you need someone with an outsiders perspective to come in and say something that makes even the expert go "wait, I never thought of it like that". Sometimes you need an outsider to have an overview look of a lot of things to go "hmmm, I think we need X created in order to do things better".
So, to put it into a different viewpoint, I guess an example from my job would possibly help. They were using one monitoring platform. Something happened monetarily and they needed to switch platforms. They setup a tools team to build out this new tool. Meanwhile, they told us we had 30 days to migrate all of our monitoring, and we had never even heard of the product. 30 days and NOTHING was monitored yet. So, what happened? I contacted the tools team and said "where's my fracking account then and I want to be an admin". So, they give me an account (I was one of the first people to get one), and they go on with their planning sessions. I skip all their meetings and try to teach myself, and I turn up monitoring on one of my devices. Next thing I know, my phone rings. Some guy I never heard of is calling me asking me how I had just discovered my device. I explained what I did and then proceed to put all my gear in after I ask HIM how I can make it so I can filter to just my devices. He tells me that piece. I start discovering my own stuff, and setting up reports, etc... with questions I give them and they research the idea and give me answers.
So, the moral of this story is that it took that tools team to find the base product and give a path forward, but they didn't have an idea of how to USE the product to achieve their ends. However, I knew what I needed, but I didn't have time to research any new tool, because I had stuff breaking I had to fix, new access I needed to open to get things working, new links I had to setup to get things working, etc... Sometimes you need a team whose focus isn't on developing that end product, but rather trying to find out if there's a new "methodology" out there that can be applied to many different things.
To give another example but in a more magical sense, one team might note that there's a new type of spell out there that's making use of a retributive aura (i.e. someone hits someone and they are affected somehow in return) like fire shield. The team decides they need to research a way to take that spell and distill out the metamagic part of it so that someone can learn how to make a retributive aura out of any spell. At first they're thinking to do do various damage types and they drag in all the top invokers. They're working out frost, lightning, acid, sonic, necrotic, radiant, etc... versions. But then someone they mention about it at lunch speaks up and says "well, why can't we make a version that can take on pretty much any kind of effect... for instance a charm or a dispel magic?". All of a sudden, the idea of a "rainbow shield" metamagic effect is born and a separate team gets handed the idea that they need to get down to how the most basic kernel of this functions. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
Edited by - sleyvas on 03 Sep 2020 12:51:33 |
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Founding a Magical University
