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sleyvas
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USA
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Posted - 29 Jun 2020 :  13:51:09  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
So, I just recently posted some NPC's in another thread, and its got my juices going to think about how to better remake the general idea of the moon, while keeping a lot of the truisms of realmspace of what's there. I know some people just want to throw the entirety of realmspace out the window, but then if you do so, what do you do instead exactly?

Now, I've made it very clear that I picture the moon as being inhabited by the fey, but a different kind of fey. I'm interested in having the ellefolk/Arak/Shadow elves from Shadow Rift as being "the main race" (though it in itself is several subraces), with some slight modifications like the idea that they "breed true" now in realmspace. However, I'm not adverse to there ALSO being other groups up there on the moon (other elves, shadar-kai, humans, other races, etc..).

So, after writing what I just wrote on NPCs, I realized I don't want there to be one predominant religion as is presented in realmspace (i.e. just Leira). I also don't want it to all be Selune either (or elven gods of the moon either). I also don't necessarily want a mirror of Faerun on the moon. So, I just figured, hey, let's throw out some ideas for what gods we'd love to see on the moon. I'll start out by stating some I specifically see useful.

1) Leira - I see Leira being worshipped because she helped these shapechanging fey escape the plane of shadow long ago, where they were servants. She placed a light filtering illusion over the surface of the moon that also allows them to live on the surface without being burned. This is why these fey stay on the moon by the way (without preparatory magic or a ship with no light exposure, they would burn).

2) Lurue - in addition to fey, I'm picturing the moon having a bit of a "fey" feel to it, in that they possibly have quite a few enchanted pegasi, asperii, and hell, maybe even flying reindeer that pull a sleigh/chariot/wagon. The moon might also have some tiny races of fey as well. Lurue would be something like a goddess of magic on the moon, instead of having Mystra worship strong there.

3) Selune - in some respects, Selune would be like a version of Chauntea for the folk there. She's not some distant light to them. She's the firmament beneath their feet. She might also be something of a magic goddess, and perhaps there are things LIKE faerzress on the moon.

4) The Raven Queen - I've liked the idea of the Raven Queen ever since I've seen it. However, it doesn't fit well in the Faerunian pantheon because there's already Kelemvor (unless she becomes his wife). It doesn't fit the Mulhorandi pantheon because Osiris is there. However, given her ties to shadows, the recent ties to the Shadar-kai, etc... this goddess of death, winter, and fate could work as a goddess for the ellefolk on the moon. She's also somewhat like the Queen of Air and Darkness in some respects, but a lot less evil (not good mind you, just less evil).

So, all the gods I've mentioned so far are female, and apparently the moon is a matriarchy. However, I think there should be some male gods as well. So, what male gods do you think work well for the moon (even if from outside realmspace)? What other female or asexual gods do you think work?

I'm going to throw out a few other ideas that I think might work as well for possibly other cultures, and to also give a little variety to the moon itself.

What we know of the dark side of the moon is that "there are about 50 ports that make up the Leiran Trading Center, that all run along the equatorial line". So, basically, multiple separate but possibly joined via subsurface means docking facilities.

But what if one veers away from the equator on the "dark side" of the moon (which is simply the side that doesn't face Toril, and I guess in theory would receive sunlight half the month and darkness the other half with some varying shades between)? Might there be areas that are icebound? I'm picturing that maybe there are snow "fey" of sorts there (frost sprites, snow elves, bheur hags, and maybe even frost goblins, frost giants, ice trolls, and/or white dragons). These might be dangerous places that the inhabitants from other parts of Selune stay away from. I'm picturing that if this were true, then we could introduce relatively unknown deities like Rellavar Danuvien (the frost sprite king) and Tarsellis Meunniduin (the exiled Seldarine god of the snow elves).

Also, if I do have these Ellefolk worshipping the Raven Queen, then perhaps some kenku on the moon might make sense as well. Possibly they are leftovers from the Aearee. If this is true, they might also feature Quorlinn as a trickster god amongst the pantheon that even the ellefolk might appreciate.

Any other ideas? Do any of these suck? Better ideas or a different twist? I know a lot of these are like some of what I want to do with things like Katashaka and Anchorome, so I definitely have a case of "same thing on the mind"... so a different twist might be good. For instance, perhaps several isolationist colonies of Illumians (from races of destiny, the frail human-like entities with floating glyphs around their heads) who have settled here to study the strange magical glyphs that line the interior shell of the crystal sphere. Maybe they've adapted to a surface god like Deneir. Maybe Auppenser is strong amongst them as well.

Also, given the ties of the moon to dragonkind, maybe there are dragons, linnorms, dragonkin, dragonborn, and/or faerie and pseudodragons found more commonly on the moon.

I'd also been talking about ideas of Abeiran Gargoyles and Trolls that are affected by sunlight (mirroring a lot of the Disney Gargoyles and Trollhunters look and some of the concepts), and maybe that might work as well.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas

Edited by - sleyvas on 29 Jun 2020 14:09:38

Baltas
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Poland
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Posted - 29 Jun 2020 :  15:18:23  Show Profile Send Baltas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I like your ideas.

Leira being worshiped on Selune, is quite fitting, as it's was noted in canon she is even predomimant deirty on Selune, with Selune's inhabitans there even calling their home/The Moon "Leira".
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Sel%C3%BBne_(moon)#Inhabitants

I don't think you would like for Leira to be so dominant. I guess though Leira could be seen as the favored daughter of Selune (and I wouldn't be surprised if Leira was in canon one of Selune's children)

Some drow could live there, (me getting this idea from drow living in the moon Celene), possibly Eilistraeens who migrated there, but you might not like the idea.

Well, among male Ptah could have some worship, seeing he is stated to be worshiped in the Realmspace, and his worship both in real life, and D&D) had some connection to Moon (he wasn't though a lunar god).

Mask could also be worshiped, if maybe seen as more feminine form, as opposed to Toril were he is seen as masculine (well more masculine,as Mask is described as often appeared as either sex), but he also has feminine forms, and according to Crucible: The Trial of Cyric the Mad the goddess Diancastra is apparently such aspect/form, as is implied there Kali.:
http://www.forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=17204
link 2

I think though it's possible the Maskarrans could be persecuted for Mask's betrayal of Leira.

With Shadar-Kai, 5E basically equated them with Arak (but to be fair, the 3E Shadar-Kai, were a bit like Shadow Elves). Although I guess you might want to use them as a separate race.

Moon Dragons, would very fit as fauna, if possibly a percentage could be non-evil, due to Selune's influence:
https://spelljammer.fandom.com/wiki/Moon_dragon

Edited by - Baltas on 29 Jun 2020 15:33:37
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TheIriaeban
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Posted - 29 Jun 2020 :  16:57:47  Show Profile Send TheIriaeban a Private Message  Reply with Quote
How about some lychanthropes? Being on the moon would affect them in a couple different ways: they could not return to their human form and being on the moon calms the bestial side of their personalities. That way, you could have a group of werewolf scholars who don't feel the need to rip everyone to shreds. In fact, maybe it would turn them away from Malar completely so you could see werebears and werewolves living together in peace.

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ericlboyd
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Posted - 29 Jun 2020 :  17:45:50  Show Profile  Visit ericlboyd's Homepage Send ericlboyd a Private Message  Reply with Quote
So, here's a weird idea. What if the moon and Toril are tied together via magic. We already know that the fey can move via crossroads and backroads across Toril. (Essentially backroads are the Realms equivalent of "ley lines.") What if those "ley lines" actually travel across the moon? So the crossroads are essentially places that occur both on the moon and on Toril, while the backroads are paths across the surface of the moon? The "other stuff" you discuss lies in the open areas of the moon between the ley lines. This would also explain small pockets of fey who "wandered off the backroads" and vanished into the wildlands of the moon.

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TheIriaeban
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Posted - 29 Jun 2020 :  18:13:02  Show Profile Send TheIriaeban a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Supposedly, any heavenly body would have ley lines so that is reasonable. Also, planets tied together via magic is an established concept. It is why conjunctions are considered so powerful and needed for some extremely high powered magical ceremonies. In fact, a conjunction could also explain how people got there in the first place: someone(s) starting out on a Trail of Mists path and a conjunction re-routed it to the moon.

On a side note, has there ever been a ley line map of Toril produced?

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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
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Posted - 29 Jun 2020 :  19:01:01  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by TheIriaeban

Supposedly, any heavenly body would have ley lines so that is reasonable. Also, planets tied together via magic is an established concept. It is why conjunctions are considered so powerful and needed for some extremely high powered magical ceremonies. In fact, a conjunction could also explain how people got there in the first place: someone(s) starting out on a Trail of Mists path and a conjunction re-routed it to the moon.

On a side note, has there ever been a ley line map of Toril produced?



Ed has confirmed the Realms has ley lines -- I'm not sure this has ever even been stated, in published Realmslore. It certainly hasn't been mapped.

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sleyvas
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Posted - 29 Jun 2020 :  19:11:40  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
So, looking over Baltas' ideas, just some quick notes

having drow worshipping Eilistraee…. I could see it. A small colony of them, but without ties to the spelljamming station, maybe somewhere under the surface when the dark side is lit up, and then they come to the surface when its dark for the other half of the month.

On the Mask thing, the one thing I personally view (totally me) is that Mask and Leira are in cahoots and even "sometimes lovers". They will betray each other, but more often than not, they enjoy pulling cons together. So, I could see Mask being worshipped on the moon, but I'm not sure how to work it in as a good plot, so his worship may not be big (unless someone gives a really good plot.... and I do know he has had ties to shadow in the past... so that's one path).

On the Arak and the Shadar-Kai... the Shadar-Kai are like some of the arak, but the arak are not like the shadar-kai (some of the arak are tiny fairies, some look like beardless dwarves, some look somewhat gnome like with eerily long fingers, etc.... I do see the similarity you are talking about though between the Arak-Sith and the Shadar-Kai, in that both have very strong ties to shadow. If I were to write up anything linking the two, it might be something where the Raven Queen and Gwydion (the shadowy being that was controlling the ellefolk) had some kind of involvement. So, long story short, yes, I would like them to be separate.

Moon dragons... they'd need some serious work, but the idea of a dragon whose coloration changes with the moon phases is interesting. If I did have polar areas, they could work well with a breath weapon that literally freezes around people to lock them in place instead of just doing damage. The whole schizoid alignment changes might have to go.

I'd be real hesitant to put anything for Ptah there though. I get that he's a spelljamming god, but for the most part the people there aren't spelljamming around.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
9635 Posts

Posted - 29 Jun 2020 :  19:14:34  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by TheIriaeban

How about some lychanthropes? Being on the moon would affect them in a couple different ways: they could not return to their human form and being on the moon calms the bestial side of their personalities. That way, you could have a group of werewolf scholars who don't feel the need to rip everyone to shreds. In fact, maybe it would turn them away from Malar completely so you could see werebears and werewolves living together in peace.



Worth exploring, but I feel like there needs to be more to this before we turn it into a colony of them or something. It might be just some individuals though. We already know that in 2nd edition Selune gave her priests who were lyncanthropes control over changing, so the idea isn't too far out there. How might this be something special and highly usable for gamers?

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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sleyvas
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USA
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Posted - 29 Jun 2020 :  19:29:01  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd

So, here's a weird idea. What if the moon and Toril are tied together via magic. We already know that the fey can move via crossroads and backroads across Toril. (Essentially backroads are the Realms equivalent of "ley lines.") What if those "ley lines" actually travel across the moon? So the crossroads are essentially places that occur both on the moon and on Toril, while the backroads are paths across the surface of the moon? The "other stuff" you discuss lies in the open areas of the moon between the ley lines. This would also explain small pockets of fey who "wandered off the backroads" and vanished into the wildlands of the moon.



This is already a definitive for me, and I was going to try and do SOME kind of research of something like this. Personally, I think there's something linking Nimbral and the moon. Also, at spots where the tears have fallen to earth, I wouldn't be surprised if linkages are made. However, given that the tears have been "separate" for a long time from the moon's surface itself, I'd be hesitant to make this too common. There might even be some underdark rivers that on certain nights open a portal and everyone travelling down that river suddenly finds themselves in caverns on the moon. Similarly the star mounts and unicorn run may have ties with the moon, as well as the moonwood.


Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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TheIriaeban
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Posted - 29 Jun 2020 :  19:46:33  Show Profile Send TheIriaeban a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

quote:
Originally posted by TheIriaeban

How about some lychanthropes? Being on the moon would affect them in a couple different ways: they could not return to their human form and being on the moon calms the bestial side of their personalities. That way, you could have a group of werewolf scholars who don't feel the need to rip everyone to shreds. In fact, maybe it would turn them away from Malar completely so you could see werebears and werewolves living together in peace.



Worth exploring, but I feel like there needs to be more to this before we turn it into a colony of them or something. It might be just some individuals though. We already know that in 2nd edition Selune gave her priests who were lyncanthropes control over changing, so the idea isn't too far out there. How might this be something special and highly usable for gamers?



Well, how about a group of lycanthropes that are working to getting all lychanthropes to live in harmony with others of their kind and the other races? This "Council of The Full Moon" could be directing agents on Toril to work towards this goal. Players could encounter these agents who may direct them to remove a group that rebuffed their suggestions and now need to be excised for the greater good of lycanthropes everywhere. These agents could also supply aid to a group "courtesy of the Council". There was a Dragon issue that had a bunch of magic for lycanthropes. They could be the ones that introduce that magic to your campaign.

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Gary Dallison
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Posted - 29 Jun 2020 :  20:02:21  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I looked at key lines a bit for the moonshaes and it seems the path can be altered by menhir, trilithon, and dolmen. You can access a leyline and travel along it using a trilithon and dolmen, or you can open a gateway to the Fey planes using a dolmen.

Not that its directly related but if you aligned the standing stone circles with certain star and moon alignments then that would be a good time to allow portals to be opened or leyline access allowed.

Of course leyline do occur naturally linking rivers and mountains and forests but only the Fey can access them at will and humans need to be part Fey or know Fey magic or build a trilithon / dolmen to access even a natural leyline.


Just my take on structuring the chaotic splatboard approach of leylines development seems so far.

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sleyvas
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USA
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Posted - 29 Jun 2020 :  20:39:17  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by TheIriaeban

quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

quote:
Originally posted by TheIriaeban

How about some lychanthropes? Being on the moon would affect them in a couple different ways: they could not return to their human form and being on the moon calms the bestial side of their personalities. That way, you could have a group of werewolf scholars who don't feel the need to rip everyone to shreds. In fact, maybe it would turn them away from Malar completely so you could see werebears and werewolves living together in peace.



Worth exploring, but I feel like there needs to be more to this before we turn it into a colony of them or something. It might be just some individuals though. We already know that in 2nd edition Selune gave her priests who were lyncanthropes control over changing, so the idea isn't too far out there. How might this be something special and highly usable for gamers?



Well, how about a group of lycanthropes that are working to getting all lychanthropes to live in harmony with others of their kind and the other races? This "Council of The Full Moon" could be directing agents on Toril to work towards this goal. Players could encounter these agents who may direct them to remove a group that rebuffed their suggestions and now need to be excised for the greater good of lycanthropes everywhere. These agents could also supply aid to a group "courtesy of the Council". There was a Dragon issue that had a bunch of magic for lycanthropes. They could be the ones that introduce that magic to your campaign.



Ok, this is getting a little more interesting factor. If you don't mind some back and forth, why don't we try and develop this more (and anyone else that wants to chirp in with ideas, I have no problem with it... after all we are all realms fans)?

So, this group of lyncanthropes is on the moon. They have control of their changing. They are CURSED lyncanthropes. That I see is the big thing here, because CURSED lyncanthropes are actually supposedly not in control of themselves when they change (so the idea we have of good and evil is hard to apply to them, as they aren't truly responsible for their actions).

Why? We can say its a blessing of Selune.... but maybe its got something to do WITH the moon. Maybe they're mining a certain type of "moon stone".... not moonstone mind you... a certain type of stone on the moon. With it they can make maybe jewelry that gives people control over their lyncanthropy. Maybe it just prevents their urge to hunt and kill when their change is forced.

But, lets take this concept maybe a little differently, because the above kind of smacks of a lot of TV shows with "daylighter rings" or somesuch. What if instead of a stone and a piece of jewelry... you know, something that's permanent... what if instead its something that has to be renewed? What if its a "tea" that must be drunk and it comes only from a plant that's known to grow ON Selune?

Why does this help? Maybe these "moon lyncanthropes" use the crossroads to travel to the surface, trying to bring this tea to surface lyncanthropes that need it to control themselves. But maybe SOME lyncanthropes or SOME priesthoods seek to stop the flow of this resource.... and they seek to find these crossroads and those who cross them and kill them.

Also, maybe this "resource"/"tea" has other uses, and other people want it because of those uses. For instance, maybe a doppelganger that drinks it is forced into his natural form. Maybe it affects other shape changers in a similar way with a type of poison able to be made that you can put on arrows, or in a drink, or some such. How can we make this idea more useful? So, now the lyncanthropes on the moon have to fend off those who seek to get this resource to sell it as a profit to nobles, wizards, etc... who want to research it for other uses.

As a way to give it a bit more of a questionable vibe as well.... what if brewing this "material" requires that just before "picking the leaves" or "picking the berries of the plant" requires something else that's relatively hard to obtain. For instance, the ellefolk that I'm talking about having on the moon... they are all shapechangers. What if it requires some of their blood, spit, or some other bodily fluid to be "fed" to the plant just before harvesting? It shouldn't require the death of the provider, but it should be painful to obtain so that they don't do it freely, so that's why my first thought was blood. Maybe the ellefolk don't like to give up this stuff and they're actually forced or tricked into doing so for the greater good. Maybe it has to be gained when they're in their other form (for instance, when a arak/fir is in hedgehog form). This might get a little too dark, but it could also add some edgy "realism" to it as well. This might be why the people that run the Leiran Trading Center are afraid that surface worlders are going to invade.

Is this better? Does it make this more useful? How can we improve on this idea even more?

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas

Edited by - sleyvas on 29 Jun 2020 21:21:06
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Wooly Rupert
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Posted - 29 Jun 2020 :  21:32:05  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
It is canon that cursed lycanthropes that become specialty priests of Selûne can control their lycanthropy.

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TheIriaeban
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Posted - 29 Jun 2020 :  23:47:31  Show Profile Send TheIriaeban a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well, actually, I was looking at the idea of lycanthropes, cursed or not, lose control of their form change and are locked into their transitional forms simply because they are so close to the object that inspires the change. If that type of werebeing doesn't typically have one, they gain a transitional form when on the moon.

Dragon mag #266 has a bunch of spells for/against lycanthropes. One of them, New Moon (the reverse of Full Moon) suppresses the forced shapechange caused by the moon for cursed lycanthropes so having something to do that may or may not be needed.

If you want to have a resource that comes from the moon only, how about Selunite. When mined, it looks similar to bauxite (it has an almost cratered appearance). When it is processed, it becomes a translucent metal that can either aid (it is a translucent white) or hurt a lycanthrope (it is a translucent dark grey). Another option is that the metal matches the phases of the moon no matter where it is (once enchanted) so that on a full moon, it is translucent white and during a new moon, it is translucent dark grey. Either way, the ore has to be taken to Toril to be processed because there is something about the moon itself that doesn't allow the Selunite to separate properly during the smelting process. Both pro- and anti-lycanthrope groups would be interested in the ore.

As for lycanthropes being on the moon, perhaps they fled to there or were transported there when Selune destroyed Myth Lharast (I found this in my notes and I don't remember where it came from):

"The Wood of Sharp Teeth is home to a number of intelligent humanoid species. Satyrs are found here in large numbers, as are their reported counterparts, the dryads. It is also believed that a number of wolfwere clans call the Wood of Sharp Teeth home. A small population of werewolves has also lived here for centuries, although in recent decades they have been retreating from the more numerous wolfweres. Legends hold that a ruined city stands forgotten somewhere in the forest’s depth, a city from which a most remarkable werewolf—one who had a talent both for sorcery and for organizing his otherwise chaotic and independent kind under a single banner—had intended to conquer the surrounding area and establish a kingdom where his kind would rule supreme. His dreams of empire crumbled when a mighty wizard—some say Elminster—laid waste to the city.

As with many legends, this one has a basis in truth. The scrolls Arahnar acquired from Angah Lalla (see Parts Two and Three) contain historical fragments copied from a temple devoted to the elven moon goddess Sehanine. They relate the tale of Vehlarr, a highly unusual natural lycanthrope who was an accomplished sorcerer and who was a favored servant of both Malar the Beast Lord and Sehanine the Lunar Lady. With the support and aid of these otherwise antagonistic entities, Vehlarr started to organize the werewolf packs of the Wood of Long Teeth into a coherent nation, even building a fortified city deep within the forest.

Vehlarr had grown increasingly disturbed by the number of lycanthropes that were falling victim to the magical lure that the would-be destroyer of the Shoon Empire, Syri Mhaal, had placed upon Myth Lharast. The deities, too, resented Syri Mhaal’s actions, particularly Sehanine who felt Syri Mhaal had corrupted a city that was built partly in her honor.

In the year 712, with hundreds of werewolf packs organized around him, safely within the city that came to bear his name, for Sehanine blessed the area so it was protected from the Myth Lharast’s magical draw, Vehlarr started drafting plans to strike at Syri Mhaal. Vehlarr knew that he could not attack Myth Lharast without falling victim to the city’s unholy charm effects. Instead, he endeavored to construct a gate that would allow him and his loyal soldiers to enter Myth Lharast directly from Vehlarr’s city. Through secrets revealed to him by Sehanine, he built his gate so it was keyed to the other city’s mythal. The gate, called the Circle of Vehlarr, was completed in 720, and Vehlarr launched his assault in a coordinated attack with the Cowled Conjurers who also sought to stop Syri Mhaal.

Something, however, went wrong. The combined might of the werewolves and the Cowled Conjurers proved not to be a match for Syri Mhaal’s forces. As they were on the brink of defeat, the patience of Selune, the other goddess to whom Myth Lharast had originally been dedicated, came to an end. She blasted the city from the face of the Realms, killing almost all the combatants in the process. Magical energies surged through the Circle of Vehlarr and shattered much of the surrounding city. Without their leader, the werewolves who dwelled there scattered to the four winds rather than attempt to rebuild it.

However, a persistent legend has arisen among the werewolf packs of the Wood of Long Teeth—Vehlarr lives still, existing on another plane where Myth Lharast still exists. Everyone there is un-aging except for the nights of the full moon when the city returns to Aber-Toril and can still be accessed through the Circle of Vehlarr. Unfortunately, no one who has attempted to locate the lost ruins of Vehlarr’s city has ever returned to verify whether there is truth to the story or not. This includes Arahnar’s pack."

Edit: fixed typos

"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."

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Edited by - TheIriaeban on 29 Jun 2020 23:50:48
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sleyvas
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Posted - 29 Jun 2020 :  23:59:36  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

It is canon that cursed lycanthropes that become specialty priests of Selûne can control their lycanthropy.



Yeah, I mentioned that earlier. But the idea here would be for a "group" of some sort that isn't necessarily all priests entirely devoted to Selune developing some kind of possibly temporary means that can be given out to anyone that is inflicted with lyncanthropy. After all, should a priest of Tyr, as a for instance, suffer the curse of lyncanthropy because they refuse to convert from the religion in their heart? Then there would need to be a network that's both acquiring what they need to make this material, and then some who are making the material, then some who are devoted to delivering it where it needs to go (because not all lyncanthropes should have to up and leave their families and move to the moon just because they got cursed).

Granted, I'm building out all these arguments in my head for why it shouldn't be just some colony on the moon itself and then feeding that into Eric's idea of using crossroads. Hmmm, another possibly interesting idea.... perhaps the lyncanthropes can't USE the crossroads (because they require fey blood perhaps)…. or maybe there are some crossroads they can use because of their "moon blood" or lyncanthropy, but those are guarded over and watched by the inhabitants of the moon because of beings like followers of Malar. So, maybe they have to work out with other groups to transport the "medicine" to the surface worlders via crossroads meant for fey use OR they use spelljamming themselves.

To note, if it is say blood that's required, maybe it would be enough blood that it would kill the tiny fairy kind (Portunes and Alfen, both of whom might be inclined to help), but the larger ellefolk are more neutral and less good oriented. So, maybe some Portunes (who are skilled herbalists/potion makers) are actually working with the lyncanthropes, but only by providing what spilled blood they get when someone's hurt, etc.... But there are other groups of these good lyncanthropes who might go overboard and extract what they need "for the greater good" in a fashion that doesn't kill, but isn't kind either. After all, just because someone is doing "good" doesn't mean it needs to be seen as "good" by all involved. Sometimes the world just isn't fair and this is the crux of moral quandaries and ethics.

How else can we build on this idea to make it somewhat believable, able to drive a story idea, and possibly center adventures around it?

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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sleyvas
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Posted - 30 Jun 2020 :  00:13:22  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hmmm, so in that previous thread, I like the idea of that city being transported by Selune (at least partially), and perhaps it had a portal connecting it to the surface city PRIOR to the surface city's destruction (kind of like the one in the Shaar where the same city existed on 2 sides of a portal). However perhaps the portal only opened during the new moon, and now the surface side portal is either destroyed or malfunctioning.

Oh, and I really like the idea of a metal that can be mined from the moon but can't be WORKED there. I'm not sure what to do with that, but perhaps while its on the moon its like mercury, but when it leaves the moon it hardens. Maybe something else can be done with it. However, with the idea I was proposing of a tea... maybe it must be BREWED in a teapot made from this material. We can come up with a lot of gotchas for requirements for a temporary respite/cure for cursed lyncanthropes, and the main reason is to make something that's not just "yay, we have a city of good lyncanthropes up there" but instead "there are some good lyncanthropes up there, and their working to make the lives of surface lyncanthropes better by bringing them a temporary cure". There can also be other things going on with them as well, such as protecting the secrets of this old city, etc....

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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TheIriaeban
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Posted - 30 Jun 2020 :  00:22:48  Show Profile Send TheIriaeban a Private Message  Reply with Quote
So, if the metal is worked into a white translucent pot, the tea inhibits change. If the metal is dark translucent, it is a poisonous to lycanthropes (or shape changers in general). Also, depending on your time period, Myrmeen Lahl heard a rumor about the metal where it can easily detect and kill members of the Night Parade so Cormyr and the War Wizards are highly interested in obtaining this material (it is up to the DM if this is true or not).

"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."

My FR writeups - http://www.mediafire.com/folder/um3liz6tqsf5n/Documents

Edited by - TheIriaeban on 30 Jun 2020 00:23:58
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sleyvas
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Posted - 30 Jun 2020 :  00:50:51  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by TheIriaeban

So, if the metal is worked into a white translucent pot, the tea inhibits change. If the metal is dark translucent, it is a poisonous to lycanthropes (or shape changers in general). Also, depending on your time period, Myrmeen Lahl heard a rumor about the metal where it can easily detect and kill members of the Night Parade so Cormyr and the War Wizards are highly interested in obtaining this material (it is up to the DM if this is true or not).



I like this, adding more and more context to this helps. Yeah, so the pots AND the tea have to be kept away from outsiders. Also, if the metal is like mercury on the moon, maybe it has to be carefully mined somehow by the lyncanthropes, because maybe its actually deadly to them in that form.

Maybe if members of the night parade are touch by this metal it forces them to revert to their true form?

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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TheIriaeban
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Posted - 30 Jun 2020 :  01:40:56  Show Profile Send TheIriaeban a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

quote:
Originally posted by TheIriaeban

So, if the metal is worked into a white translucent pot, the tea inhibits change. If the metal is dark translucent, it is a poisonous to lycanthropes (or shape changers in general). Also, depending on your time period, Myrmeen Lahl heard a rumor about the metal where it can easily detect and kill members of the Night Parade so Cormyr and the War Wizards are highly interested in obtaining this material (it is up to the DM if this is true or not).



I like this, adding more and more context to this helps. Yeah, so the pots AND the tea have to be kept away from outsiders. Also, if the metal is like mercury on the moon, maybe it has to be carefully mined somehow by the lyncanthropes, because maybe its actually deadly to them in that form.

Maybe if members of the night parade are touch by this metal it forces them to revert to their true form?



Actually, how about it can ONLY be mined by lycanthropes because it is deadly to anyone else when in it raw form. That gives them a reason to really be there (and were maybe slave labor originally before they revolted/escaped).

If we go that route, I would say it would revert ANY shapechanger. That would mean that doppelgangers and the like would destroy this stuff on sight while governments of all kinds would want some as a defense against infiltration by those groups/beings.

This metal would be a pretty good reason to fear an invasion by Torilites.

"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."

My FR writeups - http://www.mediafire.com/folder/um3liz6tqsf5n/Documents
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Wooly Rupert
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Posted - 30 Jun 2020 :  01:53:21  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

Hmmm, so in that previous thread, I like the idea of that city being transported by Selune (at least partially), and perhaps it had a portal connecting it to the surface city PRIOR to the surface city's destruction (kind of like the one in the Shaar where the same city existed on 2 sides of a portal). However perhaps the portal only opened during the new moon, and now the surface side portal is either destroyed or malfunctioning.



Why transport a city all that distance, instead of just translocating there and building on site?

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Baltas
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Posted - 30 Jun 2020 :  02:01:24  Show Profile Send Baltas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
With Mask and Leira, yeah I know remember when you wrote that, and it makes sense, seeing how close the two are even in portfolio, and were allied in the past. I would get this could be all part of their alliance and romance, especially that there is a very strong suggestion at least Leira was indeed survived the attempt at her life by Cyric and Mask.

Both Leira and Mask are kinda "Fey" (from behavior and motives) when one thinks about it, and fit into with Arak.

With Arak being equated with Shaddar-Kai, I meant indeed specifically the Arak-Sith.

With Arak, it's also interesting all of them (aside from Sith) can transform to animal form, so I wonder if they would find some kinship with lycanthropes.

With Ptah, I though some of his Speljamming worshipers could stay or spread his worship to Selune (as Ptah has non-Spelljamming worshipers), rather than to hos worship on Selune to be focused on Spelljamming, but I'll understand if you won't like it.
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TheIriaeban
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Posted - 30 Jun 2020 :  02:03:48  Show Profile Send TheIriaeban a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

Hmmm, so in that previous thread, I like the idea of that city being transported by Selune (at least partially), and perhaps it had a portal connecting it to the surface city PRIOR to the surface city's destruction (kind of like the one in the Shaar where the same city existed on 2 sides of a portal). However perhaps the portal only opened during the new moon, and now the surface side portal is either destroyed or malfunctioning.



Why transport a city all that distance, instead of just translocating there and building on site?



Because NO ONE likes to pack and unpack for a move.

"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."

My FR writeups - http://www.mediafire.com/folder/um3liz6tqsf5n/Documents
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sleyvas
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9635 Posts

Posted - 30 Jun 2020 :  12:10:34  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by TheIriaeban

quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

quote:
Originally posted by TheIriaeban

So, if the metal is worked into a white translucent pot, the tea inhibits change. If the metal is dark translucent, it is a poisonous to lycanthropes (or shape changers in general). Also, depending on your time period, Myrmeen Lahl heard a rumor about the metal where it can easily detect and kill members of the Night Parade so Cormyr and the War Wizards are highly interested in obtaining this material (it is up to the DM if this is true or not).



I like this, adding more and more context to this helps. Yeah, so the pots AND the tea have to be kept away from outsiders. Also, if the metal is like mercury on the moon, maybe it has to be carefully mined somehow by the lyncanthropes, because maybe its actually deadly to them in that form.

Maybe if members of the night parade are touch by this metal it forces them to revert to their true form?



Actually, how about it can ONLY be mined by lycanthropes because it is deadly to anyone else when in it raw form. That gives them a reason to really be there (and were maybe slave labor originally before they revolted/escaped).

If we go that route, I would say it would revert ANY shapechanger. That would mean that doppelgangers and the like would destroy this stuff on sight while governments of all kinds would want some as a defense against infiltration by those groups/beings.

This metal would be a pretty good reason to fear an invasion by Torilites.



We're on the same wavelength, after I wrote that I was thinking "any shapechanger". I do like your change that lyncanthropes are the only ones who can safely mine it though. It might be worthwhile to stress only CURSED lyncanthropes as well, just to make it "strange" and somewhat explain why any shapechanger can't touch the stuff. Maybe it can only be mined when they have NOT changed form, and when they do change form it becomes deadly to them if its not in a crafted form (so its like mercury, but after crafting, it becomes different). By crafting, I'm thinking they must make an alloy with it. So say a teapot made with the stuff maybe has to have a small amount of the material and then a lot of steel or mithril. Hmmm, and just to add a little more "mooniness" to it, maybe the "crafting" process involved powdered moonstone (the white rock) being mixed with it as its added to another metal. Maybe it makes a treatment for a metal, kind of like a blueshine treatment.... and it might be worth exploring its properties other than changing a shapechanged creature's form. Maybe if touched to the wound of someone bitten by a lyncanthrope within a round it nullifies the chance of curse spreading? Maybe some other abilities that aren't lyncanthrope related, such as if it comes into contact with the blood of a creature then said creature is surrounded by a "moonfire" effect which is somewhat like faerie fire but a silvery blue glow. Maybe some other ability that's really minor.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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sleyvas
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USA
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Posted - 30 Jun 2020 :  13:12:41  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Baltas

With Mask and Leira, yeah I know remember when you wrote that, and it makes sense, seeing how close the two are even in portfolio, and were allied in the past. I would get this could be all part of their alliance and romance, especially that there is a very strong suggestion at least Leira was indeed survived the attempt at her life by Cyric and Mask.

Both Leira and Mask are kinda "Fey" (from behavior and motives) when one thinks about it, and fit into with Arak.

With Arak being equated with Shaddar-Kai, I meant indeed specifically the Arak-Sith.

With Arak, it's also interesting all of them (aside from Sith) can transform to animal form, so I wonder if they would find some kinship with lycanthropes.

With Ptah, I though some of his Speljamming worshipers could stay or spread his worship to Selune (as Ptah has non-Spelljamming worshipers), rather than to hos worship on Selune to be focused on Spelljamming, but I'll understand if you won't like it.



Yep, I can see the idea that both Mask and Leira are "fey", and I guess that on the moon that I would have Mask's worship be focused on his ties to shadows and intrigues rather than thievery. That being said, I don't want a strong focus on the tiny ellefolk-powry, but they are indeed very thief oriented.

Which brings me back to "other gods". The idea of some drow following Eilistraee, who is a moon goddess, but she's also a goddess of dance. I was thinking that the Ellefolk-Muryan (or the "dancing men") might worship Lliira, but Eilistraee works even better, since she's also prone to dancing with a weapon and the ellefolk-muryan can be hotheads with blades. Perhaps those muryan who worship her do so in order to try and gain a semblance of calm, and maybe there's a mixed colony of muryan and drow.

BTW, I'm going to adopt that "naming" fashion for the ellefolk to show race/subrace… i.e. ellefolk-sith, ellefolk-muryan, ellefolk-shee, ellefolk-alfen, ellefolk-portune, ellefolk-fir, ellefolk-brag, ellefolk-powry, ellefolk-teg, etc...

On the idea of lyncanthropes and the ellefolk being similar, I had thought about that as well (that there would be so many shapechangers on this satellite) after we started discussing, and the similarities between them. The one thing I want to make sure to keep are the ellefolk's "alien/coldly fey" nature though. So, looking at things from THAT perspective let's see what we might do.

So, on the idea of these lyncanthropes brewing a tea that helps them control their changing of form, lets see some links. I see the ellefolk-alfen as tiny green "butterfly" fairies with plant growing skills and the ellefolk-portune as tiny black skinned fairy "moths" with herbalist/alchemy skills. Both are "good", and I could see them possibly growing materials and/or helping brew the tea these creatures need. Maybe most of the humans who actually work at the Leiran Trading Center are in fact lyncanthropes who have their changes controlled by the tea, so they try to help the ellefolk hide their nature from visiting spelljammers. Maybe these humans also seek to "sneak a ride" with a load of tea to travel to the surface with spelljamming vessels, or perhaps they simply have their own spelljamming ships for single use flight (like a flitter).

On the reverse of that, there's the ellefolk-teg (small feral fey humanoids with a passion for the hunt) and the ellefolk-powry (tiny fey with wasp wings, wiry beards, snake eyes, and feral teeth with a passion for murder). I'd like to make them less "directly murderous", or at least find some way to make their murderous tendencies more acceptable. Perhaps these individuals view hunting lyncanthropes who have been cursed as a "good thing for society", and so periodically they travel to the surface of Toril to go on hunts of Malar's worshippers. Maybe they capture rather than kill these creatures, steal their shadows, and bring them to the moon. In Ellefolk culture this is known as creating a "changeling" (see shadow rift for details). Changelings are kind of like taking a being and drawing out their strongest nature and making them focus on it (i.e. a master carpenter turned into a changeline has his mortal form become morose, but the shadowy changeling is obsessed with carpentry and crafting and nothing else). So, maybe when a lyncanthrope becomes a changeling, the mortal loses the ability to change but also becomes withdrawn and "elfshot", and the changeling is the hybrid form and is feral. So, maybe some of the dock workers of the Leiran trading center are these people who are just in a daze, because their shadows have been taken from them, and their shadows are hunted by the ellefolk-teg and ellefolk-powry. To note, I want the ellefolk-teg and ellefolk-powry to be a lesser portion of the populace, and perhaps this is because they have a tendency to get themselves killed due to their inherently violent natures. Since the ellefolk in realmspace will breed true (not randomly being an ellefolk type), this means that these two subraces are slowly disappearing.


Finally, to come back to the ideas of "what other gods might there be"... the idea of looking at the various ellefolk types for ideas.

So, Shee are singers/bards/poets, but I see their focus on Leira mostly. They are usually neutral beings. I'd be hesitant to bring a human god like Milil or Oghma and I'd also be hesitant to bring in a Seldarine god. But perhaps Lurue and Selune are also favored deities, and maybe Fionnghuala the swanmay goddess holds some sway since these beings due often shapechange into swans.

Ellefolk-Alfen are tiny butterfly fairies with plant growing focus - so again, maybe Lurue. But maybe Verenestra the goddess of the dryads and Relkath Many-branches, as well as Eldath. Oh, and there should be TONS of dryads, treants, wood woads, and animals with the woodling template on the moon as well, possibly even tended by the Alfen.

Ellefolk-Brag are short, muscular folk with construction/crafting skills who change into ponies. My first inclination is to Moradin, but I don't want these guys that strongly "dwarf-like". However, another dwarf deity, Laduguer, could fit them. His aspect amongst the brag wouldn't be evil focused, but more towards "do an honest day's work". However, the idea that the Brag DO take the shadows of people and turn them into basically changelings that work all day crafting could be seen as fulfilling Laduguer's goals. In an odd twist, some brag may reject their workaholic nature and might worship Lurue simply because of the form they take and be less workaholics.

Ellefolk - Fir are 3 foot tall, slender beings with eerily long pointy fingers and long silver hair who change into hedgehogs and love tinkering and clockwork creations. Unlike tinker gnomes, their stuff works. So, perhaps these are quintessential artificers and their worship is to Gond and to a lesser degree Deneir. Maybe these folk love to work on spelljamming craft as well, trying to make ever more lightweight and fanciful looking craft (such as glassteel or Selunite ships that look like swans, hummingbirds, etc..)

Ellefolk - Muryan are elven looking to a degree, and we discussed them above. I could see them worshipping Leira, but also Lurue and Eilistraee. I could also see them worshipping Fenmarel Mestarine as an outsider god of the Seldarine.

Ellefolk - Portune are tiny black skinned/moth winged fey with a penchant for studying herbalism/medicine/alchemy. They like to live in swampy areas. I'd be hesitant to bring them to the worship of Ilmater as he is TOO human. Eldath though could fit, with them maybe having some druidic skill.

Ellefolk - Powrie (the tiny murderous, wasp-winged fey). I see their numbers extremely limited, and perhaps they've even set themselves aside from the rest of their kin on the moon now that they breed true. I could see them focused on Leira and Mask both. However, they may also choose Fenmarel Mestarine as an outsider and hunting god. I'd like to see them less "murdery", but perhaps they are more selfish and have little-man syndrome and are quick to respond to slights.

Ellefolk - Sith - the very epitome of "shadow elf" - definitely the Raven Queen, but also Leira.

Ellefolk - Teg are small feral fey folk who change into foxes and are focused on the hunt. I could see them worshipping Fenmarel Mestarine, and maybe in their mythos he takes on the form of a wily fox instead of a wolf.



So, the list of gods I think we have so far are Leira, Lurue, Selune, Eilistraee, Fenmarel Mestarine, the Raven Queen, Verenestra the dryad goddess, Relkath Many=branches a tree/plant god, Fionnghuala the swanmay goddess, Eldath, Laduguer, Gond, and Deneir

That sounds like a good list of gods for the ellefolk, and maybe some other cultures might have some other deities. For instance, I'm wanting to think more on Illumians on the moon as well (so Auppenser, Deneir, and Gond do work for them as well... as well as Leira and the Raven Queen). Also Kenku having a presence is something I'm drawn towards as well (the Raven Queen... and I guess mask could work for their culture too if we didn't want to include Quorlinn… Leira too works for them). I also like the idea of a frozen area of the moon, and having "frost sprites" or "frost fairies" there who worship either the Raven Queen or Rellavar Danuvien.






Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas

Edited by - sleyvas on 30 Jun 2020 14:30:07
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sleyvas
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Posted - 30 Jun 2020 :  14:32:25  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm having a lot of fun with this, and its been something I've been wanting to explore but kept back burner'ing it. How about a minor and relatively easy thing for folks to develop that can turn into something based on the imagery it creates in the mind.

CITY NAMES:
Come up with some city names that fit these ellefolk, lyncanthropes, illumians, kenku, frost sprites, and maybe even other elves such as drow, moon, and star elves. Maybe some humans who migrated from Nimbral as well. If you can think of a good epithet to go with a city name (such as Chicago being the windy city), that might help create some good imagery.


ALONG THIS SAME VEIN: what are some words OR SOUNDS that immediately draw imagery of "moon" "stars" or "fey" to you. The ones that come to my mind are

LUN , as in lunar
shining
twinkling
crescent
orb
myth

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas

Edited by - sleyvas on 30 Jun 2020 17:06:34
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Baltas
Senior Scribe

Poland
775 Posts

Posted - 30 Jun 2020 :  16:12:42  Show Profile Send Baltas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Shee focusing on Leira is actually fairly brilliant - Leira and Oghma were rivals in past (and giess they are again, after she revealed her survival)in the past, so it would make sense for Leira to a deity who also took interest in bards as Oghma's rival.

Taking Laduguer as Ellefolk-Brag primary worship deity is also an idea I quite like - with Brag I think focusing on Laduguer aspects as "The Gray Protector" and "Master of Crafts".

Muryan being worshiping Eilistraee is also a very good idea, and i wonder if in distant past, the Eilistraee wasn't connected to the Muryans ancestors before in times before Araushnee's rebellion.

Edited by - Baltas on 30 Jun 2020 16:41:58
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