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TheIriaeban
Senior Scribe

USA
462 Posts

Posted - 30 Jul 2020 :  19:12:48  Show Profile Send TheIriaeban a Private Message  Reply with Quote
What is the cost of a resurrection compared to the cost and risk of having to attack that family yourself? I would say that Lolth would not allow speak with dead or resurrections spells to operate in this case or the drow do something to the bodies to prevent these spells from working on the remains. Without that, you would not have anyone able to confidently attack another family.

"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."

My FR writeups - http://www.mediafire.com/folder/um3liz6tqsf5n/Documents
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
34002 Posts

Posted - 30 Jul 2020 :  21:16:53  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Or perhaps there's an unmentioned side of wiping out a House: disposing of the bodies so magic can't be used to bring them back.

Or maybe it's just some odd side-effect of their culture: you died, that means you failed, and while it's possible to bring someone back, it's pretty much ingrained in them not to waste magic on a failure.

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Kentinal
Great Reader

4486 Posts

Posted - 30 Jul 2020 :  23:24:28  Show Profile Send Kentinal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Burning tended to be a very good way to prevent resurrection in most cases.

However disposing a House by killing in most cases can not leave anyone that would desire to raise the House.

Another House cheating by raising one would face destruction for interfering with House Law I would guess as the only reason another House would do that was to prove the attacking House failed to kill all, thus must be destroyed.

"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
5279 Posts

Posted - 01 Aug 2020 :  11:44:27  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Exile (1338 – 1340 DR)

Other Lore
Piwafwi cloak, magical ones make the wearer invisible against the stone
Diatryma, a gigantic underdark bird (flightless???)
Myconids communicate through different hued fungal spores (and telepathy)
Many underdark races can judge magnetic variations in the rock, allowing them to judge direction like a compass.
Baruchies, known as crimson spitters, a rare red moss in the underdark, releases spores that choke those who disturb the moss. Unknown near Menzoberranzan, rare in the wilds beyond Blingdenstone.
Grubbers, huge caterpillar like creatures (bigger than a basilisk) that have a symbiotic relationship with the baruchies. Baruchie spores do not choke grubbers. Look like huge pale grey worms with little legs. Fiercely territorial of baruchies. Grubbers have tiny mouths and eat baruchies, they kill intruders (usually by rolling in the baruchies and releasing spores) and the baruchies feed on the corpses.
Dire corbies found most often (but rarely) in the southern reaches of the underdark, crude methods and few in number, often ignored by other underdark races. Highest honour of their race is to die in battle.
Brister Findlestick, a human wizard living in the Underdark in the wilds west of Blingdenstone, gone mad with isolation. Has an adamantine tower that he can move around the Underdark. Polymorphed a pech into a hook horror called Clacker. Brister slain by the hook horror/pech but his tower remained in place.
Illithid community in a stone castle in the wilds west of Blingdenstone (Elviddinvelp is a former member). The illithids capture Drizzt, Belwar, and Clacker. Drow make excellent masseurs of the elder brain. Guenhwyvar injured the elder brain and freed Drizzt and co, Zaknafein zin-carla kills the illithids.
Pech can create stone out of nothing (a magical ability to create a stone wall)

Language
“Magga cammara”, means “by the stones” in svirfneblin

Guenhwyvar
Immune to poison gas
Can be summoned for 12 hours every 2 days
Called an Entity Stone by the illithids
On the astral plane it is locked in an endless hunt with an entity elk.

Menzoberranzan
House Hun’ett and House Do’Urden had been in conflict for 10 years since Drizzt left.
All drow dress in a practical and quiet manner with symbols of Lolth adorning their clothes. Any armour (leather or chain link hidden beneath the piwafwi).
House Hun’ett attacks House Do’Urden but fails. House Hun’ett is “destroyed” by drow justice. Matron Sinafey Hun’ett assumes the identity of Shi’nayne Do’Urden (Matron Malice’s fictional eldest daughter returned from Ched Nasad. This type of thing has happened many times in secret in Menzoberranzan’s history.
Crossed arms across chest mean surrender or a sign of truce
Zin-carla (meaning spirit wraith), the greatest gift Lolth can bestow upon the drow. Animates a corpse, requires the soul of another in sacrifice. The body required ten weeks of preparation with spells and salves. The corpse possesses the skills it had in life, the spirit is returned to the body but the memories are removed (by the ritual).
Drizzt survived for years in a fungus grove outside of Menzoberranzan, grove was protected by myconids. Zaknafein the zin-carla slew all the myconids and hacked apart the fungus trees.
Drow rarely mine in the Underdark, and when they do they dont do it well. They prefer to get ore from others like duergar etc.
Lloth is a regionalism peculiar to the drow of Menzoberranzan
No other house has ever attacked another during zin-carla
Zin-carla withers the body due to the constant stress and magic required to control the spirit wraith.


Bregan D’aerthe
Houseless males (former nobles???) act as mercenaries to the highest bidder
Exorbitant cost
Jarlaxle wears a bright shimmering cloak (magical, shimmers in colour and heat signature), ornamental eye patch, plumed hat, and a crop-top. Brash and flamboyant. Head clean shaved. Jewelled shiny boots that jangle when he walks (only when he wants, magically silenced???). Has a whistle that only Bregan D’aerthe mercenaries can hear. Low sweeping bows used for hellos and goodbyes.
Bregan D’aerthe had hired itself out to both House Do’Urden and House Hun’ett
Bregan D'aerthe on permanent hire to House Baenre


House Do’Urden
Matron Malice and Briza had been at odds since the conflict with House Hun’ett, both houses constantly hiring new recruits and mercenaries for the repeated battles.
Briza felt that House Do’Urden should have attacked House Hun’ett the day that Drizzt left (House Hun’ett lost both its wizards Alton and Masoj)
Matron Malice paid Bregan D’aerthe whatever it wanted to turn on House Hun’ett
Vierna, Maya, and Dinin hate Briza
Matron Sinafey Hun’ett joined House Do’Urden as the pretend eldest daughter Shi’nayne. Matron Malice sacrificed her to Lolth as part of the Zin-carla ritual.
Zaknafein failed (threw himself into acid). Briza killed Malice. House Baenre attacked House Do’Urden. Maya was slain. Vierna was taken to House Baenre’s chapel. Dinin joined Bregan D’aerthe. House Do’Urden was destroyed.

House Hun’ett
Dipree Hun’ett, slain by Jarlaxle for Matron Malice

House Baenre
Elviddinvelp, Matron Baenre’s illithid companion.
Matron Baenre is considered Lolth’s representative, her approval or disapproval is Lolth’s approval or disapproval.
Matron Baenre has used zin-carla twice in the past (she has asked for it 3 times)

House Fey-Branche
9th House of Menzoberranzan
Matron Halavin Fey-Branche

Blingdenstone
Since the founding of the city most svirfneblin killed in the wilds had been killed by drow.
Big iron doors allow entry. Largest cavern just beyond the doors is home to the city guard and many tiers of defences in a huge maze.
Ruled by a king and 7 advising elders
King Schnicktick
Seldig, fledgling and pledgling svirfnebli, to be an expedition miner in 3 years.
Expedition miners are among the highest ranking svirfnebli in the city.
Svirfneblin can communicate via an empathic communal bond
Burrow Warden Krieger
Burrow Warden Belwar Dissengulp, dark grey eyes, hands chopped off by Drizzt and replaced by a mithril heavy pick and a mithril hammer. Has a brooch that emits a glow (permanent) as a gift from King Schnicktick. Has been a burrow warden for almost 50 years and led most of the far reaching explorations. Over a century in age (not by much)
Burrow Warden Brickers
The svirfneblin have agents in Menzoberranzan. Agents provide minor information in return for gemstones but cannot be relied upon to betray Menzoberranzan. One agent is Jarlaxle (he will not inform on Bregan D’aerthe). Other agents are svirfneblin transformed into drow by magic.
Firble, councillor / elder to the king. Chief of covert security
King and elders decide regions to be prospected/mined. Burrow Wardens gather volunteers for expeditions, everyone gets a cut of the profits.

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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
5279 Posts

Posted - 01 Aug 2020 :  11:51:56  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Finally, RAS novels finished for a bit.

Exile was lore light but a few interesting points. Yet again it highlighted how many survivors there can be of noble Houses in Menzoberranzan.

House Do'Urden had 5 members by the end (commoners do not really count when it comes to house destruction as they are easily traded and have no real rights beyond the protection of the house they belong to). Maya appears to have been slain (darts in the body but could have been sleep poison), Briza and Malice certainly were, but both Vierna and Dinin survive. So from a House seemingly destroyed almost half the members survive. From the other nobles this seems to be standard, although their survival is kept secret usually.


Other interesting notes are that Matron Baenre performed zin-carla twice (and asked for it a 3rd time).

Guenhwyvar is called an Entity Stone by the illithids which i kind of like as a unique name for a unique set of beings (including his other cat friends and the elk he chases).

Right at the end there is a minor typo where Drizzt refers to Belwar as "the Belwar", using that i think i will make Belwar the svirfneblin title for Burrow Warden, its an easy mistake for Drizzt to make, confusing a name with a title given his limited grasp of the svirfneblin language (he never officially learns and only spends a few months among them at the most and Belwar knows drow).

I'm still most interested in knowing who the drow was that lived with the svirfneblin before Drizzt (this is how Belwar knows how to speak drow). I'd be tempted to make it Jarlaxle since he is obviously an abandoned noble (like Dinin becomes) and has contacts among the svirfneblin (he acts as an agent / spy for the svirfneblin).

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ElfBane
Learned Scribe

USA
159 Posts

Posted - 01 Aug 2020 :  19:50:02  Show Profile Send ElfBane a Private Message  Reply with Quote
You will learn to like Jarlaxle, I think. RAS characterizes him very well IMHO. Such a charming (and vicious if you cross him) Rogue. It's a very "close" game he plays; not "quite" openly flippant with the Matriarchy, but never enough for the Matron Mothers to want to get rid of him.
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
5279 Posts

Posted - 01 Aug 2020 :  20:39:57  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Maybe, thus far I'm finding I dislike all the characters in RAS novels.

Wulfgar and Bruenor are what I would call assholes. They are always having a go, even at their friends, especially when life gets a bit difficult. Regis is evil and only hangs around with the others because they protect him. Drizzy is about as miserable as you can get, always thinking about how hard his life has been and not enjoying what he's got. They are all mass murderers that indiscriminately slaughter anyone that gets in their way, and bully those who wont do what they want.

If they were a bunch of PCs in my game I'd have to TPK them for being murderhobos

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PattPlays
Learned Scribe

162 Posts

Posted - 02 Aug 2020 :  02:56:18  Show Profile  Visit PattPlays's Homepage Send PattPlays a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison

Finally, RAS novels finished for a bit.

Exile was lore light but a few interesting points. Yet again it highlighted how many survivors there can be of noble Houses in Menzoberranzan.

House Do'Urden had 5 members by the end (commoners do not really count when it comes to house destruction as they are easily traded and have no real rights beyond the protection of the house they belong to). Maya appears to have been slain (darts in the body but could have been sleep poison), Briza and Malice certainly were, but both Vierna and Dinin survive. So from a House seemingly destroyed almost half the members survive. From the other nobles this seems to be standard, although their survival is kept secret usually.


Other interesting notes are that Matron Baenre performed zin-carla twice (and asked for it a 3rd time).

Guenhwyvar is called an Entity Stone by the illithids which i kind of like as a unique name for a unique set of beings (including his other cat friends and the elk he chases).

Right at the end there is a minor typo where Drizzt refers to Belwar as "the Belwar", using that i think i will make Belwar the svirfneblin title for Burrow Warden, its an easy mistake for Drizzt to make, confusing a name with a title given his limited grasp of the svirfneblin language (he never officially learns and only spends a few months among them at the most and Belwar knows drow).

I'm still most interested in knowing who the drow was that lived with the svirfneblin before Drizzt (this is how Belwar knows how to speak drow). I'd be tempted to make it Jarlaxle since he is obviously an abandoned noble (like Dinin becomes) and has contacts among the svirfneblin (he acts as an agent / spy for the svirfneblin).




Ooh burrow warden tidbits? I went hella deep into them in 2016-2017 for some Blingdenstone stuff. Belwar Dissengulp's story is ridiculous and I don't see why his name wouldn't become a shorthand for something. For some reason I recalled his name as Belwar Stonehewer at first, despite that surname being completely nonexistent on the internet or my own notes..

I am certainly hand-writing that Belwar nick/title into my OOTA copy.

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T_P_T

Edited by - PattPlays on 02 Aug 2020 02:57:50
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
5279 Posts

Posted - 02 Aug 2020 :  21:22:09  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
On to Song of the Saurials now.

Liking it so far, lots of lore and half truths and although the gods are involved its thus far from a mortal perspective (Akabar having dreams and Zhara interpreting them).

Just got to the bit where Grypht killed Kyre the bard. I'm assuming she doesn't come back to life but it's possible. I'm also assuming Kyre is in fact Kyre and not someone else (although if she is it doesnt matter).

So Kyre is an agent for Moander, but everyone thinks she is a Harper, and at some point in the past she probably was.

She is serving as a judge on a Harper retrial of Nameless, so she must have been fairly similar. I'm also going to assume she is from the Berdusk branch of the Harpers and not the much older branch of the Harpers in the Dalelands run by Elminster and Storm.

So a Moander agent in the Harpers means that there is possibly many other infected moander agents in the Harpers. And didn't Cyrilia fall I'll suddenly, could they have gotten to her much later. I forget if moanderite infiltration of Harpers is dealt with anywhere as I havent looked at the Harpers much, but I'm definitely going to be expanding on that potential hook.

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maransreth
Learned Scribe

Australia
121 Posts

Posted - 05 Aug 2020 :  11:28:34  Show Profile Send maransreth a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Gary, If I havent said it recently - thank you for the effort and time you are putting into this project. I hope it is not dragging you down and possibly making you sometime in the future not continue.

After finishing Salvatore's latest book "Relentless" over the weekend, I have started re-reading the early novels commencing with SpellFire. I wont read the Icewind Dale or Moonshae series as I know them quite well.

I am not far into SpellFire yet, but after listening to Ed talk about writing his first novel, compared to writing game material, on the weekend it has given me some new insights as to why the book has been written the way it has.

EDIT - Dammit, I forgot to ask, where are you getting your dates from when you detail the novel's contents/lore?


Edited by - maransreth on 05 Aug 2020 11:29:55
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
5279 Posts

Posted - 05 Aug 2020 :  11:36:43  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thankyou for the thankyou

As long as there is new lore to discover in the novels I'm fairly certain I wont burn out.

I'm sorely tempted to skip the RAS novels from this point. I'm reading the novels to discover lore I can use and twist beyond the usual interpretation and RAS novels just aren't worth the effort for the 1 page of lore i commonly find in them.

Loved spellfire though, tons of information about the dalelands, lots of room to expand the cult of the dragon in the dalelands and to setup a zhentarim infiltration into the Sembian cell which might help explain the later north south split in the cult (1370 onwards) as the cult is supposed to hate the zhentarim.

And if you feel like it you could even double check my homework and make sure I got everything.

The Gencon seminar on saturday has me even more convinced that novels (and sourcebooks) should not be taken as read and there is plenty of room for interpretation in any lore we discover.

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Seravin
Master of Realmslore

Canada
1141 Posts

Posted - 05 Aug 2020 :  12:19:59  Show Profile Send Seravin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Kyre was a bit of a fascinating figure...I do wonder how she and other agents of Moander in the Realms got infected in the first place. It indicates she is some sort of planar traveller and got infected on another plane of existence where Moander is still strong? I need to re-read the book to refresh my memory.
I don't know how the Beholder got infected, but I love how Moander and Phalse's rivalry is brought up and still I don't understand why they would work together in the project or what Phalse's motivations are in creating Alias and her sisters. Beyond evil for evil's sake because it got him killed (not on his home plane so he's still alive) and the benefit was just a decent sellsword that he could have had for 50 silver pieces from the Flaming Fist or some such...
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
5279 Posts

Posted - 05 Aug 2020 :  12:54:58  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm probably going to make kyre infected in faerun because that's what everyone is interested in (faerun). It is possible that kyre could have been doing what Alias did and spent all of 1357 searching out bases of moanders cultists and got infected there. Didn't know the beholder was a moanderite as well.

I'm going with phalse was actually a stooge of Flattery. Flattery was an archmage of immense power (reactivating a netherese enclave) and had allies in the abyss (or so he claimed). So phalse pretends to be working for someone while actually hiding that he is a free agent while truly hiding that he works for flattery (which else would know all about Finder than his own simulacrum).

Flattery wants to kill finder and the whole wyvernspur clan, but I'm wondering if he wouldn't also blame the harpers and so want to destroy them from the inside with agents that are awesome bards but totally obedient

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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
5279 Posts

Posted - 05 Aug 2020 :  15:54:09  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
So Breck sex pests Kyre when he's 18 in 1356 DR. She leaves and disappears for a year or more (extending into 1357 when curse of the azure bonds has happened).

I'm guessing she went to investigate the moander rumours in yulash and cormanthyr and Westgate. She gets herself infected and returns to the Harpers and infects several of the more weak willed members as well as a few treants.

It was kyre that asked for breck to be on the tribunal knowing he would choose whatever she did.

I'm not going down the route of Moander controlling Kyre and wanting Finder captured because the gods motives should be mysterious and unknowable and it's all unreliable narrator, but at the very least the cult of moander would want finder and alias and dragonbait dead.

I'm also thinking the moanderite and the harpers have an ancient enmity extending back to when the elves of myth Drannor first trapped moander in yulash. Maybe some of those elven wizards went on to found the first incarnation of the harpers at twilight.

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maransreth
Learned Scribe

Australia
121 Posts

Posted - 07 Aug 2020 :  05:11:22  Show Profile Send maransreth a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison

Thankyou for the thankyou
Loved spellfire though, tons of information about the dalelands, lots of room to expand the cult of the dragon in the dalelands and to setup a zhentarim infiltration into the Sembian cell which might help explain the later north south split in the cult (1370 onwards) as the cult is supposed to hate the zhentarim.

And if you feel like it you could even double check my homework and make sure I got everything.



Just discovered something interesting - Gary, you must be reading the original book written in 1988, not a reprint Ed did in 2005. The reason - no mention of the Blood of Malaug - the malaugrym.

As my paper books are original prints, many years ago I invested in ebooks and that is what I am using to re-read the Realms. My copy in Chapter 6 Death in the Dark has a scene with two spawn of a malaugrym by the name of Amarune. I looked over your notes and there is no mention of the malaugrym at all.

So I went over to Goodreads and the original novel has 382 pages, while the revised edition has 416 pages. This would be where Ed got his way and had some of the edited scenes re-added.

So something to think on lore-wise - original or updated. I might add a section on malaugrym and you can edit the original post with the Spellfire information. There is mention of Doomstones and the Most High Shadowmaster having all the doomstones, yet one of the spawn found a "dead" doomstone in one of Malaug's Toril lairs.

Btw I remembered Amarune as that is the name of one of Ed's offspring, who appeared in Death Masks. Amarune is also the name used by some 5e publishers as there are two sets - Amarune's Almanacs: done by region type (artic, coasts, etc) and Amarune's Adventures.
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader

USA
3428 Posts

Posted - 07 Aug 2020 :  06:21:37  Show Profile Send Lord Karsus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
-That's interesting. I got into the realms in the early-2000s, and they started reprinting a lot of the older books around then, and I don't think I ever heard anyone mention anything about revisions or edits or changes. The only thing I can think is that the Avatar Trilogy was released with the authors' actual names (Scott Ceincin & Troy Denning) instead of "Richard Awlinson", the pseudonym that was on the covers of the original books.

(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)

Elves of Faerûn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerûn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
5279 Posts

Posted - 07 Aug 2020 :  08:02:25  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Good spot on the revised edition, I shall have to find a copy of it and read the whole thing again to make sure I didn't miss anything.

Cheers

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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
34002 Posts

Posted - 07 Aug 2020 :  11:52:36  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus

-That's interesting. I got into the realms in the early-2000s, and they started reprinting a lot of the older books around then, and I don't think I ever heard anyone mention anything about revisions or edits or changes. The only thing I can think is that the Avatar Trilogy was released with the authors' actual names (Scott Ceincin & Troy Denning) instead of "Richard Awlinson", the pseudonym that was on the covers of the original books.



Crystal Shard was revised. Originally it said Drizzt was over 200 years old, but after the Dark Elf trilogy came out, it was revised to be inline with those books.

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Gary Dallison
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Posted - 07 Aug 2020 :  11:58:27  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Aww no, i really dont want to have to read an RAS book again, i think my copy said he was over 200 years old.

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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
5279 Posts

Posted - 07 Aug 2020 :  15:11:24  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Song of the Saurials (1358 DR)

Shadowdale Lore
The Nameless Bard held in the Twisted Tower of Ashaba awaiting judgement by the Harpers
Heth, a page boy in the Twisted Tower of Ashaba
Elminster was a good friend to Nameless before his imprisonment, but would not speak at his initial trial because he was angry at Nameless and felt betrayed (why???)
Han, a male songhorn player at the Old Skull inn (possibly a farmer???)
Durgo, middle aged farmer and son of Jhaele Silvermane, no sense of rhythm, dislikes dancing
Nelil, sister of Durgo and daughter of Jhaele Silvermane
Grypht (means High One in saurial, may be a name or a title) a saurial (has two horns on its forehead and a larger horn sticking out of its snout, a bony frill running down its neck and a serpentine tail, covered in green scales. He transported into the Harper trial (displacing Elminster to a place filled with brightly coloured feathered dragons, and larget cats twice the size of tigers) while looking for Dragonbait (he tracked Olive who is not with Alias). The Harper’s thought him an enemy and attacked. Grypht is a powerful mage.
Caitlin a guard in the Twisted Tower of Ashaba.
Captain Thurbal, a guard in the Twisted Tower
Sar, a guard in the Twisted Tower.
Shend, guard in the Twisted Tower.
Oakwood Knoll, west of the River Ashaba, a hill crowned with a single immense oak covered in mistletoe, ivy, and moss, surrounded by many small oaks.
Treants have been infected by Moander (like Kyre)

Alias Lore
She has been losing control and singing songs in strange unknown languages, not Nameless’ tunes, or twisting the words to darker versions about death and decay and darkness.
Sings Nameless’ tunes to defy the Harpers.
Knows thieve’s cant, magically implanted by the Fire Knives.
Emotionally immature
Alias and Dragonbait have been searching Moander’s temples since spring and finding them all abandoned.
Spent last winter serving as a guard in the Twisted Tower.
A trusted friend of Mourngrym
Alias does not dream.
Alias believes Zhara is a religious zealot, using Akabar to go on some fool quest and bring glory to Tymora.
Conditioned by Cassana to dislike priests.
Alias’ chainmail is heavily enchanted, very immodest looking, she acquired it from Cassana, offers more protection than a full breastplate. She has spare armour
One Alias clone is a sage in Candlekeep, Zhara a priestess of Tymora in Turmish, Jade a thief in Immersea (slain by Flattery), Cat a mage in Immersea, one a warrior in the eastern lands, one a lady of some power in Waterdeep.

Kyre Lore
Kyre, Bard, one of 3 judges. Beautiful, half elven woman, lustrous black hair, remote and aloof, not shy.
Wears an enchanted bright red orchid in her hair (enchanted to keep it in bloom). The tendrils of the stem are entwined in her hair, entering her ear and her temples. The orchid’s tendrils are spread throughout her body and allow her to shoot them out of her mouth and fingertips.
Kyre is an agent of Moander
Kyre knows of Grypht, was hunting him
Kyre was going to break Nameless out of his prison cell.
Kyre attacked Grypht with a walnut that produced a black substance that responds to the word “Darkbringer”, it trapped Grypht inside a soul trapping black gem. Kyre then tried to use it on Nameless (but he had remembered his name of Finder)
Walnuts function as soul trapping gems
Stunned Akabar
Thistledown seeds find a target and create fast growing, killing thistles with dagger like thorns that attack and smother the target.
Kyre was sent by Moander to find Akabar (it was thought Akabar was with Alias because magic could not detect his whereabouts). Kyre “recruited” many other servants on her way to Shadowdale.
Kyre brought Breck Orcsbane into the Harpers, the two have worked together on many occasions.
Kyre was killed by Grypht, the entire inside of her body was filled with rotting tendrils and vegetation.
Kyre was known for not making mistakes.
When Breck was 18 (2 years ago), he confessed his love for Kyre and pestered her so much that eventually she said they should stop working together and she went away for a whole year. When Kyre returned after Finder had been released Kyre asked that Breck be assigned to the Harper tribunal.
Kyre was different (unapproachable) after she returned from going missing for a whole year.
Kyre found the saurials and was living among them when the tribe was attacked by minions of Moander, Kyre was captured and became a minion of Moander

Dragonbait Lore
Communicates by releasing odours
Has learned thieve’s cant from Alias
Honeysuckle smell means tender concern
Ham smell means worried.
Brimstone smell means interested
Fresh baked bread means anger
Vanilla smell means amused
Roses means grief
Mint means shame / remorse
Garlic means stubborn
Violets means warning / fear
Lemon means joy
Chicken soup means impatience
Earthy smell means frustration
Warm tar means elation
Cinnamon means love
Known as Champion to the saurials.
From the same tribe as Grypht. Dragonbait and Grypht are friends.
Was in love with Coral but left over religious differences. Left to fight evil elsewhere and got captured by Phalse.
Has a new magic sword (flameblade???)
A circle symbol in the air (parallel to the ground) is the saurial symbol for death.
The planet where the saurials live has many followers of Moander around. The power of Moander is so great in the Saurial’s world that he can prevent Elminster from leaving.
Saurials refer to dragons as Lair Beasts
Grypht is known by the nickname Old Lair Beast (old dragon)
Soul singing is a sacred ability among the saurials (female only ability???). Allows the soul singer to voice the thoughts and feelings of the entire tribe in a soul song. Saurials believe soul singing is a gift from the gods.
Dragonbait’s mother had the gift of soul singing.
Dragonbait’s tribe are ruled by Overlord’s. Moander has possessed all the Overlords. The Overlords know that young cannot work so they break all the eggs and slay all the young and add them to Moander’s new body.

Other Lore
Moander’s temples around the Dalelands have all been abandoned
Priests of Milil wear crimson robes embroidered with gold dragons (standard ceremonial garb)
Transference, a spell that allows a wizard to swap places with another wizard (presumably he must know their name and location). It has no chance of error like Teleport.
Lhaeo bet his father’s sword that Elminster wasn’t dead. Is the sword valuable and or magical.
There arent any halfling bards according to Morala. Do the Harpers not admit halflings.
Cassana and Zrie Prakis originally lived in Ravens Bluff. They had too many powerful friends for the Harpers to get rid of them so Morala wrote an opera that exposed her worst secrets. Cassana couldnt stand ridicule and so was forced to flee to Westgate
Sarcasm is wasted on halflings in general.
Songhorn, a musical instrument, played in Shadowdale
Korhun Lherar, a sour cynical old man killed in the first battle of Shadowdale, his lands are overgrown
Halfling luck, a superstition about the good or bad luck of halflings (good for them, bad for everyone else)
Ironwood doors resist being chopped down.
Corx, an orc of the Torn Ear tribe near Spiderhaunt Woods that guards the tunnels of Finder’s Keep
The Torn Ear tribe of orcs is led by the beholder Xaran, they have been preying on small caravans in the Dales for 20 years. The Torn Ear tribes are able to detect and avoid adventuring bands disguised as merchants. They cut of ears and loot the most precious treasures. Experts at covering their tracks. In 1358 they attacked 3 times as many caravans as normal. Mourngrym sent two two parties searching for the Torn Ear warren this year, neither came back.
Xaran a beholder leads the orcs near Spiderhaunt Woods, it desires the secret of Finder’s simulacrum knowledge. Its eyes covered in a milky film, its eye stalks droop, silver moss hangs about the stalks like grey hair. It hovers awkwardly like an old man. Xaran described Phalse as a “bottle imp”. Xaran is in league with Moander. It wants Finder to retrieve Akabar and bring him to Xaran.
Grypht’s staff functions as his spell book (notches on the staff record the spells)
Supposedly Phalse created the Alias clones to kill Moander
Turmite, considered a vulgar form of reference by Turmishmen
Minions of Moander are able to produce a seed pod that burst and release a cloud of spores (seeds of possession). These can be used to make more Minions of Moander. Tendrils come to infest the body of the minions. Those possessed for several months cannot be cured, the tendrils rot their body and they would die anyway. Tendrils can be removed by cure disease or with cold (or fire).

One eye to lift and one eye to sleep,
One to charm man and one for beast.
One eye to wound and one eye to slow,
One to bring fear and one to make stone.
One eye makes dust and one eye brings death,
But the last eye kills wizards more than all of the rest. The adventurers rhyme about beholders

a tune of Finder's, "The Hero of the Watch," a seemingly innocuous song about a cat that saved a regiment of soldiers from an attacking horde of goblins.
The Shards of Selune (guardians and powerful minions of Selune) sing one of Finder’s songs (The Tears of Selune) as a duet with one of the temple’s priests in honour for their goddess. The song was designed by Finder to be sung as a solo.
Charon, the boatman of the Styx in Tarterus, red eyes, haggard face, nearly skeletal hands. Finder paid for passage with the Horn of Blasting.



Moander Lore
Moanderites are building him a new body
Moander wants Akabar to possess him again and to witness his return.
Moander possessed Coral, a saurial priestess of a god of luck, she has pearly white scales and leads a tribe of saurials. Coral’s sister Lily died last week but she laid an egg
Moander controls the mind and bodies of many saurials in the tribe.
Coral is sacrificing many beings to give life to Moander’s new body.
Coral loved Dragonbait but the two argued over theology (Coral worships a luck god, Dragonbait worships a justice god), so Dragonbait left to fight evil elsewhere (where he was captured in Tarterus by Phalse)
Moander’s minions travelled to the saurial world and kidnapped Dragonbait’s tribe and marched them through Tarterus to Faerun.
Coral wears the garb of a high priest, a clean white robe with a red eye painted in the centre surrounded by a mouth of fangs.
Coral is the Mouth of Moander, the most powerful Minion of Moander.
Akabar’s blood is the seed of Moander needed to animate his new body. The seed is a blood red gem created from a single drop of Akabar’s blood (while he consumed a strange mushroom).
Moander’s new body had been built around the gate to Tarterus.


Harper Lore
A Harper tribunal involves 3 Harpers (senior or just nearby agents???)
Morala of Milil, Harper and eldest of the 3 judges at Nameless’ trial. Ancient woman, Morala sentenced Nameless to prison after he created Flattery, she never liked Nameless. Snow white hair, wrinkled skin
Breck Orcsbane, youngest of the 3 judges. Ranger, male, long plait of yellow hair that reaches his waist, brawny. 20 years old
Kyre, Bard, one of 3 judges. Beautiful, half elven woman, lustrous black hair, remote and aloof.
The Harpers are accustomed to abiding by Elminster’s counsel
In the past Harpers were able to intimidate ordinary folk into obedience.
Elminster is the most powerful ally and adviser of the Harpers.

Nameless Lore
Born 350 years ago in a small village in one of the northern nations (Cormyr), second son of local gentry. Completed training at bardic college. Chose the life of a wandering adventurer, his music became popular and his fame attracted young adventurers to his cause. Nameless and his companions became the founding fathers of the Harpers.
Using magic and blessings of the gods he lived well beyond the natural years of a human but mortality prompted him to look to preserve his songs. He created the finders stone to record his work.
Viewed Finders Stone as a failure so tried to create a simulacrum of himself containing his personality and his knowledge of music (memories???)
Finder created Flattery, used a shard of paraelemental ice (learned how from Elminster but was told not to do it) to create him and it exploded killing and apprentice and causing another to lose her voice (she later killed herself). This story was a lie Finder told when he summoned the Harpers
Harpers removed Nameless’ name from everywhere, even his own memory. Imprisoned him on another plane where he would live in good health and relative immortality due to the nature of the plane.
Nameless was exiled 200 years ago
Nameless was a Master Harper
Nameless was able to scry on the realms while in exile in the Citadel of White Exile
Nameless was tricked into making Alias for Cassana and the Azure Bonds cabal
Nameless was always adept at charming people to spending their lives on his schemes.
Finder left the Wyvernspurs, feeling they did not understand him. He established Finders Keep in the southern edge of Spiderhaunt Woods.
Owned an exquisite songhorn made of black wood and decorated with gold.
Maryje was one of Nameless’ apprentices, the one that killed herself. She loved Nameless but could not speak the truth of the accident.
Finders Keep is a ruined manor house. The tunnels beneath the house are partially collapsed (caused by Flattery), they lead to Finders Workshop where Flattery was created.
Flattery was created with Finder’s thoughts and memories. Finder hit Flattery when he couldn’t sing his songs (at only 3 days old). Flattery refused to sing or speak anymore, he escaped on his 13th day of life.
Finder had two apprentices when he created Flattery, Kirkson and Maryje. Flattery killed Kirkson with a disintegration ring aimed at Finder (Kirkson jumped in the way) and injured Maryje (slashed her throat) then ran away. Kirkson gave Flattery his name as a joke. Nameless lied about the incident because he thought the Harpers would hunt down Flattery.
Nameless teleported the injured Maryje to Shadowdale and then returned to Finder’s Keep to hide all evidence of Flattery’s existence. He then asked Maryje to lie for him. Maryje couldnt lie (why???), but couldnt betray Finder either, so she stopped speaking.
Finder was never allowed to wield the Wyverns Spur because his brother used it all the time (jealous)
Finder’s Dagger is inset with emeralds and topaz. Was a gift from his grandfather (Paton Wyvernspur). So magical it survived a beholder’s disintegration ray. It has “certain power against evil creatures”.
Also known as the Crafter (because he made magic items)
Finder’s mother used to use the saying “sweet Selune” all the time.
Now that Finder is away from the Citadel of White Exile, he is starting to age rapidly.
The tunnels and workshop beneath Finder’s Keep are inhabited by orcs who used a secret passage to gain access
Finder used to hit Flattery when he did not sing his songs.
Flattery gained access to the workshop three years after he escaped and Finder was imprisoned, he stole all of Finder’s magic. Flattery helped the orcs trap the tunnels so they could catch and slay intruders (Flattery hoped Finder would return and be killed).
The Harpers removed all mention of Finder and his songs from popular culture within 18 months of Finder’s imprisonment.
Kirkson took pity on Flattery and used to give him books to read (including one of Finder’s spellbooks). Flattery escaped his cage using magic and stole a disintegration ring from Finder’s desk (why did Finder have a disintegration ring???). Flattery tried to disintegrate Finder (and wanted to disintegrate Maryje as well) but Kirkson jumped in front of the green disintegration ray (Flattery was going to leave Kirkson alive)
Maryje went mad after Finder was imprisoned. Flattery returned to stalk her and drove her to suicide using nightmares and suggestion.
Finder had a horn of blasting in his workshop beneath Finder’s Keep (it survived Flattery’s rampage).
Finder had earrings made by elves (from Myth Drannor) that bestowed tongues ability on the wearer.
Finder is obsessed with immortality
Finder gets infected by a seed of possession (from Xaran) but the potions he consumed earlier mean he cannot be possessed by Moander. The vines growing inside him will now make him immortal.
Finder owns a ring of protection and a ring of cold resistance.
He blew a fanfare he'd once composed in honor of a legion of soldiers who had all been killed in a single day in battle

Finders Stone
The Finders Stone was originally an artefact that Finder altered by inserting a shard of paraelemental ice into it so he could store spells and knowledge (and a sentience???)
Serves as a compass of detection emitting a beam of light to indicate a path
Can protect itself with blinding light
Has a mind of its own, directs the wielder to help find the lost find their way.
Has a shard of paraelemental ice at its heart
Can act as a rechargeable wand, allowing the wielder to cast spells that Nameless knew. Wielder needs to sing particular tunes or melodies to access the songs. Only a Wyvernspur can use these spells. Alias is classed as a Wyvernspur.
Can store information like a journal, can recall an entire library of tomes.
Can recall and sing songs in Nameless’ voice, exactly as he sang them.
Can project an illusion of Nameless singing the song.
Finders Stone can only sing when commanded, has no grasp of listeners reaction or emotions. Nameless viewed the stone as a failure. A sharp for a tongues spell. E flat for a teleport spell.
Nameless spent a decade searching for the stone. Spent another decade improving it at the risk of his own life (adding the paraelemental ice).


Akabar bel Akash
Third wife is Zhara, priestess of Tymora, reddish brown hair, an Alias clone. Zhara once broke Kazim’s arm.
Akash and Kazim are Akabar’s other wives.
Akabar has been experiencing nightmares. Zhara says they are warnings from the gods of light and that Moander the Darkbringer is returning
Akabar has 4 children
Akabar’s blood is the seed of Moander needed to animate his new body

Turmish Lore
“Of no small water” – means not insignificant
“Of the first water” - means first rate
Akabar’s wife is heavily veiled.
Turmish women are proud of their homes and children, run efficient households and businesses, always polite and softly spoken (respectful)
Multiple wives allowed if they can be afforded, referred to as sister-wives

Languages
Kyre, means flawless in elvish

The Lost Vale
The Lost Vale lies beyond the Desertsmouth Mountains between Mount Andria and Mount Drix, just south of Mount Hans.
Wizard’s Folly, a mountain in the Desertsmouth Mountains that looks like its been sliced in half (vertically). Was a whole mountain 30 years ago until two wizards decided to use it as a battlefield.
Magically hidden, you cannot find the vale, you have to be taken to it by someone who has been there. The magic of the vale keeps the vale warm in winter.
There is a gate to Tarterus near the Lost Vale.
Singing Cave at the edge of the Lost Vale (you can find the Singing Cave, so not protected by the magic of the vale???). Home to orange swallows, red and yellow skinks, a carpet of moss and ferns just inside the cave mouth.
Vale is 5 miles wide.
Borders Anauroch in the west
Steeper slopes of the vale are meadows covered with wild flowers and woods filled with a great variety of trees and ferns.
Most of the vegetation has been hacked down by the saurials, leaving reddish brown earth bare. The rotting vegetation has been dumped in the centre of the vale to form a large hill (Moander’s new body)
Three different kinds of saurials. A few were as small as halflings and had long slender necks and snouts and leathery wings hanging beneath their forearms. These flew into the clearing laden with nets of captured birds and fish and eggs and small forest creatures. Another large group of the saurials were approximately the size and shape of Dragonbait. They carried underbrush and small saplings or buckets of water. A third group, the largest.in number, were bigger than Dragonbait, a little taller than Akabar, but much more powerfully built, with sharp diamond-shaped blades running from their skulls and down their backs to the ends of their spiked tails. These creatures dragged great trees toward the pile. None of the saurials appeared to be as big as Grypht.
Coral, a soul singer (same subrace as dragonbait), pearly white colour
Lily, Coral’s sister (same subrace as dragonbait)
Overlords rule the tribe
Sweetleaf (same subrace as dragonbait), a stranger to the tribe, possibly from another tribe. Cleric
The Lost Vale was once the home of elves, they left long ago.

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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
5279 Posts

Posted - 07 Aug 2020 :  15:36:57  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Song of the Saurials finished, another solid novel filled with realmslore, not quite as good as Finder's Stone and to my mind it is because of the god stuff. Moander creating a new body and taking saurials through Tarterus, Finder walking through Tarterus and the Abyss to kill Moander, the last two chapters were lacking in detail or interest.



A few thoughts on the lore present in the novel.

The Finder's Stone was an artefact before Finder started messing with it, so Finder didnt originally create it, might be good to try and link that to another magic item in the realms (i'm tempted to try and find one linked to Tymora since he invokes her name so much).

Finder's Dagger belonged to Paton Wyvernspur, it has power against evil creatures, i'm wondering if that was used to slay the wyvern and gain the wyvernspur from it.

The saurials supposedly come from another planet, but Moander was able to control the entire planet to put a dimensional lock on it and prevent Elminsters from escaping. That level of control is usually limited to pocket planes created by mages that want to control it. Apart from the "planet" the saurials come from being large enough to hold "lair beasts" (dragons) and several tribes of saurials (sweetleaf is described as a stranger to the tribe so he must have come from another), i see nothing that proves it was a separate planet the saurials come from (that is only the interpretation of the word the saurials used to describe their homeland). So given the unreliable narrator and the potential translation issue, i'm going to have the saurials come from a pocket plane created by sarrukh of Isstosseffifil, or from Abeir.

The last two chapters where Finder went to Tarterus and killed Moander's true body are not good so i'm getting rid of that. Finder became immortal as a result of the vines, and there are many instances in realmslore of beings absorbing the power of things they slay, so Finder kills Moander's body in the Lost Vale and gains enough power to become a demigod, no need for the other planes stuff that nobody else witnessed and so may not be true (he just vanishes into a gate and is never seen again).

Flattery had Finder's thoughts and memories so despite both books saying he did not know about the Wyvernspur that cant be true and he did know. He may not have known about the crypt and where it was hidden (because the wyvernspur was not always hidden in the crypt, that could have happened after Flattery was made, probably as a result of accidents befalling the wyvernspurs who held the Wyverns Spur). It is also intimated that Flattery worked with the orcs to guard the workshop in the event of Finder's return (Flattery collapsed the tunnels and someone created those intricate locked doors that were well beyond the skill of orcs but formed part of a trap the orcs used).

A few of Finder's songs seem like they might be written about real events, most likely in Cormyr or the Dalelands. A legion of soldiers slain in a single day, a cat that saves a regiment of soldiers from a goblin horde all seem like likely Cormyrean events.
Finder himself went to bardic college, i'm not aware of any bardic colleges in Cormyr (most certainly not 350 years ago), i think bardic colleges were mostly concentrated in the north so perhaps he went to Silverymoon.

Lastly it looks like Cassana and Zrie Prakis used to live in Raven's Bluff before being forced to move to Westgate because of the opera Morala wrote that made public much of Cassana's dirty secrets (she couldnt start being criticised).



There were a few inconsistencies regarding the speech of saurials and who could understand them. At several points it was made clear that not everyone could understand Grypht but then in other places everyone was joining in an argument with the Saurial. Finder's Stone could translate any language in the realms but not the saurial language because it was not from Toril, but then later Finder had a nice cosy saurial chat with Coral, implying he knew more about the saurials than he let on. Finder also knew everything about the Lost Vale despite it being hidden for ages and i believe destroyed long before Finder ever existed. Hidden motives and links could be made between Finder and the Lost Vale and the saurials based upon the amount of knowledge he has regarding them.


All in all a realmslore rich novel.

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Seravin
Master of Realmslore

Canada
1141 Posts

Posted - 08 Aug 2020 :  00:43:56  Show Profile Send Seravin a Private Message  Reply with Quote

"Turmish Lore
“Of no small water” – means not insignificant
“Of the first water” - means first rate
Akabar’s wife is heavily veiled.
Turmish women are proud of their homes and children, run efficient households and businesses, always polite and softly spoken (respectful)
Multiple wives allowed if they can be afforded, referred to as sister-wives"

Well...if you read The Jewel of Turmish you'll see zero of that lore and see instead a very typical fantasy setting with forests and druids and ye olde port towne with a handful of references to square beards.
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
5279 Posts

Posted - 08 Aug 2020 :  07:00:45  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Cant say I'm surprised, some novels are just bad, but as I'm discovering they aren't all bad, they just need reworking a bit

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maransreth
Learned Scribe

Australia
121 Posts

Posted - 08 Aug 2020 :  12:41:14  Show Profile Send maransreth a Private Message  Reply with Quote

Going back a track, after reading Spellfire I had a thought - don't dracoliches have a phlactery, similar to a standard lich?

If yes, then I assume Spellfire is powerful enough to destroy the dracolich so that it cannot regenerate?
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
5279 Posts

Posted - 08 Aug 2020 :  15:50:00  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
That is something many have discussed over the years. Reading the novel recently I think that rauglothgor could have been utterly annihilated because his entire body was atomised and so the negative energy that animates him could likewise have been destroyed but more crucially it is possible that his phylactery was hidden in his new, secret, and super protected lair, and so the phylactery could have been destroyed by he balhiir or by spellfire. So I reckon rauglothgor is likely gone forever but there is a chance the balhiir drained the magic of his phylactery and released his soul, then his body was destroyed and so his soul could hang around as a ghost dragon.

Shargrailar was only blasted by spellfire and was still in unliving when Delg was smacking its head in with his axe. He is almost certainly back in his phylactery but I reckon the zhentarim infiltration of the cult and or cult infighting means that shargrailars phylactery was stolen and hidden so as to weaken those allied with shargrailar. His blood has been kept in a goblet that a fang dragon near aglarond has, and I vaguely recall a piece of the original body is needed, his phylactery could have been sent or sold to anywhere (probably in the opposite direction). Which means the cult are almost never going to find him.

The other dracolich probably suffered a similar fate to shargrailar as its body wasnt totally destroyed by spellfire and its phylactery must therefore have been stolen and hidden so that he couldn't animate a new body.


Just my thoughts but as everyone has pointed out, the dracoliches should have reanimated, and only rauglothgor could possibly have been prevented by spellfire. So other mundane means (theft) must stop the reanimation process.

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