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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
5279 Posts

Posted - 15 Jul 2020 :  21:40:42  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm nearing the end of Pool of Radiance and given how rushed the novel is becoming (the Valhingen Graveyard lasted a few pages and the final encounter with the vampire took about 20 lines), i can't imagine there being any lore revelations along the way.

I've been surprised how little i'm hating the novels so far, even the avatar trilogy was fine for the most part (except the cyric personality change).

The names in Pool of Radiance are awful, Porphyris Cadorna, why choose a name similar to the disease porphyria. Shal Bal, i get the feeling he spent much of the book trying to come up with a second name for her and then just gave up. No secret revelations in this book but lots of potential.

Porphyris Cadorna, last of the Cadornas, trying to manoeuvre himself into ruling Phlan. The textile house has a spellcasting chamber in the master bedroom so his father was possibly a powerful spellcaster. It hints that his father was believed to be involved in causing the Dragon Run that destroyed Phlan because he was known to have contacts with dragons.

Tyranthraxus was in the realms for more than a millennia, he spent much of his time possessing humans (occasionally lizards and squirrels), but his latest victim is a centuries old bronze dragon that was already the victim of a wizards mind control.

Could the dragon tyranthraxus possessed have been one that Porphyris Cadorna's father had cast mind controlled on.

Porphyris has a connection and contact to Tyranthraxus, letting him know about the heroes movements while also trying to exploit the situation.

Gensor the mage in service to Porphyris wears black robes. He has contacts among the Black Watch mercenary band and hires them for Cadorna. Given his proximity and alignment and clothing choice, could he be a renegade or practising Zhentarim mage.

Tyranthraxus is trying to complete this Figure of Power that will allow him to massively augment his telepathic powers so that he can dominate the minds of anything at any distance. This sounds a bit too powerful for just a run of the mill hexagon anchored with ioun stones. What if it is a unique, custom designed ritual that uses unique ioun stones. The premise that tyranthraxus hired assassins to kill a thief in Waterdeep to acquire her ioun stones is a bit weak when you consider the distance (there has to be closer stones), so why kill Tempest unless she had the particular and unique ioun stones required for this ritual (not just of a particular type of ioun stone but uniquely individual stones perhaps crafted by Congenio Ioun himself).


The mage in the silver pyramid is trying to create aquatic and amphibious human hybrids i think. Knowing what we now know about the creator races i'd be tempted to say that he didnt build the pyramid himself but found it and raised it. Then he tried to recreate the lifeforms found in the ruins (batrachi) using various magics. If i wanted to go a step further i could have the mage be a batrachi himself released from stasis or a human who accidentally transformed himself into a part batrachi. Either way a creator race ruin that is being awakened by a magic user that loses control of it and himself.

Valhingen Graveyard has an old vampire that appears to have occupied an ancient mausoleum but an old hidden tunnel linked to an even older catacomb. The vampire could have been here to whole time. The vampire also appears to have links to Tyranthraxus (the teleport pad to Valjevo Castle hidden in the catacombs), so perhaps Tyranthraxus once knew this monster and released him when he occupied the castle.


Lastly what if Cadorna's father was controlling the dragon that tyranthraxus now inhabits. What if Tyranthraxus possessed the dragon and used it to direct the Dragon Run to destroy Phlan, that would make the rumour that Cadorna's father was involved in the destruction of Phlan become slightly true.


Also i'm actually liking the depiction of the Order of Tyr as a separate sect, it can become an alternative to the main church of Tyr with its own dogma and hierarchy and area of influence.

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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
9635 Posts

Posted - 15 Jul 2020 :  21:54:29  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison


I've been surprised how little i'm hating the novels so far, even the avatar trilogy was fine for the most part (except the cyric personality change).



It must be odd seeing so many lore things that you had seen in game books only and then seeing them play out in the novels, and then realize how much is left unsaid. The sheer volume of material that's been released over the course of FR is so enormous that sometimes I find myself pleasantly surprised when I return to something that was developed 30 years ago and see an entirely different spin on it than the original author ever could have surmised (because literally 30 years worth of other material wasn't available to him yet). Unfortunately, at the same time, the contradictions stack up over time as well.

Just curious, how many novels in are you now? Were you collecting them previously, or picking up used copies, or are you reading ebook versions now?

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
5279 Posts

Posted - 15 Jul 2020 :  22:02:35  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
It's weird, the stories themselves i could take or leave, but whenever I come across a new bit of lore that I can twist or explore I get all excited and my brain starts to wake up. I think I'm enjoying them so far because there is so much lore in them, contrast that to the moonshae books that I didn't enjoy and they had hardly any lore in.

I'm an digital only person and pdfs are easiest to search. I think I've read about 10 novels in total and they are all copies I've had for years just in case.


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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
5279 Posts

Posted - 16 Jul 2020 :  09:35:29  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Pool of Radiance (1340 DR)

Cormyr
The Great Ranthor of Cormyr, has a keep between Eveningstar and Arabel. Trains Shal. Wizard, old, suffers from rheumatoid arthritis. Blue robes (meticulously pressed), commanding presence.
Ranthor killed by dark shape with a dagger wearing a snakes-head armlet

Ranthor
The Great Ranthor of Cormyr, has a keep between Eveningstar and Arabel. Trains Shal. Wizard, old, suffers from rheumatoid arthritis. Blue robes (meticulously pressed), commanding presence.
Ranthor killed by dark shape with a dagger wearing a snakes-head armlet
Cerulean, a blue-white stallion serves as his familiar, can speak telepathically, is from the eastern realms (Kara-Tur or Hordelands). Can turn invisible. Absorbs magic from his surroundings (and glows blue), can project that energy as a shield. Can fly.
Owns two potions of healing, a wand of wonder, a small square of shimmering indigo velvet (cloth of many pockets), a ring of 3 wishes, and a straight rosewood staff of power (taller than Shal). The staff was a gift from a wizard friend of Ranthor (unknown number of charges left)
Ranthor was a specialist in protection spells (Abjurer). Ranthor’s Keep was very secure and well protected.
Given the wand of wonder as a gift when he was younger and danced (30 or 40 perhaps???)
Used the wand of wonder first in the Deadwood Forest looking for secil (a fungus)
Murdered by Porphyris Cadorna
Worked with Denlor against Yarash

Shal Bal of Cormyr
Tutored by Ranthor of Cormyr for 3 years
Shoulder length auburn hair, attractive, but vain, green eyes
Her father, mother, and brothers were all sell swords (mercenaries)
Apprenticed to Ranthor at 16, when he announced he was looking for an apprentice.
Accidentally used a wish to make herself stronger and muscly.
6 ft 3 inches tall (after her wishing accident)


Other Lore
Wa herb, rare, used to enhance incendiary spells
Denlor, old friend of Ranthor, shorter and stockier than Ranthor, dresses in red, rumpled, disheveled appearance. Asked Ranthor for aid via a crystal ball.
Rasal, magic word to float small objects (cantrip)
Gnarlep, (arcane word or unholy deity???)
Chimera leather, expensive but will last a lifetime if treated right
Harak, word used to activate lightning from staff of power
Secil, a rare fungus used as a spell component
Annonwood trees, orange leaves.
Lystam calantatem, words used to dismiss poisonous mist trap in Denlor’s Tower
Magic items in Phlan seem to glow when danger is near
Gnolls, lazy, stupid, strong, guard everything but terrible at it. Fight in lines
Euphorbia juice, a rare spell component

Phlan
Denlor’s Keep near to The Pit, protective magics around the keep. The keep is beset by a horde of monsters coming from The Pit
Much of Phlan in ruins, leveled by dragons 50 years ago (1290). Some of it is being rebuilt. The Stojanow River, also known as the Barren River) is now poisonous, greenish black colour, smells awful, kills all vegetation within 100 ft struggles to survive.

Old Phlan
The Lord of the Ruins controls the goblinoids of Old Phlan and actively works against the council of Civilised Phlan. Communicates with Porphyris Cadorna, 10th councilman of Phlan. Has connections with council of Thentia, arranged a marriage between Cadorna and the daughter of the head councilman of Thentia.
Lord of the Ruins has access to a Pool. His servitors kill people, pool glows brighter and he grows stronger.
Valhingen Graveyard - Skeletons and zombies and wraiths within the city walls, animating right out of the graves. A vampire rules Phlan’s graveyard. Located 5 miles from Phlan’s shipping docks in the Merchant’s Quarter. Vampire laired in an old mausoleum in a hidden trapdoor leading to an older catacomb. Vampire was a former priest of an evil deity (tried to corrupt the Hammer of Tyr) and used an unholy word of power on brother Anton. Teleport pad in the vampire’s lair that connected it to Valjevo Castle.
Kuto’s Well, located in Kuto’s Square, located in the slums near New Phlan. Dilapidated gateways on either side of the square
Podol Plaza
Stojanow Gate, visible from Merchant’s Quarter
Valjevo Castle, visible from Merchant’s Quarter
Hobgoblins, goblins, kobolds ogres in Old Phlan serving the Lord of the Ruins.
Thorn Island, south of Civilised Phlan, across the bay. Sokol Keep is a fortress on Thorn Island, inhabited by monsters that prey on ship traffic. Old and very devout sect of Tyr based out of Sokol Keep 50 years ago (before the Dragon Run). A dark shadow hangs perpetually over Thorn Island. Low slate cliffs make up the islands shoreline.
Cadorna Textile Mill, located in a corner of Phlan, overrun by Gnolls. Located next to Scholar’s Square. Has a wizard locked spellcasting chamber in the master bedroom. The spellchamber has a secret vault filled with gold bars, a gold brooch inlaid with ivory and coral and emeralds, a shatter glaze vase from Kara-Tur, a dwarven made (dwarf sized) chainmail masterwork vest, two gold armbands and a locket with a coiled snake symbol (a common design in Phlan)
Scholars Square - Large section of the city used to be used by scholars, exists beyond the slums near New Phlan. Filled with libraries, schools, colleges, trade houses.
Shrines to the Lord of the Ruins all over Old Phlan, gold diorama of a cavern pool filled with acid (coloured gold) surrounded by 6 gems (two missing)
Yarash, a mage whose magic pollutes the Stojanow River. Contact of Porphyris Cadorna. Lord of the Ruins wants Yarash dead, but Yarash is powerful and greedy and wants to be left alone to experiment without restriction. Unstable, possibly crazy

Sokol Keep
Sokol Keep, charred walls, fortress sits atop the cliffs of Thorn Island. Mould and saplings try to grow through the walls. Mess hall (unburned), stable, blacksmith, shops, temple (of Tyr) all lie within the courtyard.
Skeletons inhabit the ground, but they are former devout of Tyr and are not evil.
Sokol Keep was burned by dragons during the Dragon Run.
Giant frogs n Sokol Keep, wear a collar with a silver triangle and a silver pyramid suspended inside the triangle.
Magic hammer and magic dagger in the ruins (remnants from the Order of Tyr)
Ferran Martinez, high priest of the Order of Tyr temple in Sokol Keep, died of starvation after the dragons burned everything. The temple in Sokol Keep was newly built before the Dragon Run (had no lay worshippers, only priests). Ferran Martinez knew of Tyranthraxus and was against him before the Dragon Run.
Holy Scales of the Order of Tyr are sacred relic to be used in the new temple in Civilised Phlan.

Valjevo Castle
One of the mightiest castles in the realms, constructed of massive slabs of marble and granite. People were amazed the dragons were able to raze any of its great walls.
Great works of magic were undoubtedly used to create the castle.
Towers once reached 100 feet tall
100 ft below the castle Tyranthraxus lies in the Pool of Radiance
Quarrel, half orc female spy for Tyranthraxus, possibly serves as messenger between Cadorna and Tyranthraxus. Assassin in charge of a number of other assassins searching for ioun stones (found none in Surd or the rest of Sembia. Slain by Cerulean.
Tyranthraxus trying to complete a Figure of Power, a hexagonal symbol anchored using ioun stones that allows him to influence all humanoids (goblinoids, humans, elves, dwarves, etc) at a distance (several miles). Has 4 ioun stones, needs 2 more.
Elf mage in service to Tyranthraxus
Maze of poisonous thorned hedges surrounds the castle.
Ebony door with an elaborate carving of a dragon on it leads to a subterranean cavern large enough to hold a dragon and the pool of radiance (door too elaborate for a goblinoid to make, was a dragon always on guard in the castle before it was ruined).
The dragon’s hoard hidden in the depths of the Pool of Radiance.


Civilised Phlan (Old Merchant’s Quarter)
Civilised Phlan (where people still live), are now sending criminals to battle the monsters in Phlan, the convicts are very young (perhaps being framed for crimes???)
Laughing Goblin Inn run by Sot (fat innkeep likes Ren???), Phlan’s busiest inn (not the fanciest), frequented by ships captains and traveling merchants. Offers safe, overproced lodging, good food.
Salen (brunette, older, leader), Jensena (blonde and muscular), Gwen (brunette, swordmaid), 3 adventuring ladies strangers in Phlan staying at the Laughing Goblin Inn.
Seamstress shop
Denlor’s Tower, located in northeast quarter of Civilised Phlan (newly reclaimed region for several months), but lost it to monsters. Red brick walls surround the tower. Huge brass door at the entrance, trapped with electrical energy. Denlor was a teacher (lecturer in magic???), he had a chultan cook and servants in the tower
Watch Guards deal with all outbreaks of disorder including tavern brawls
The noble Cadorna family once owned the Cadorna Textile House in Phlan (famous landmark) but it was destroyed during the Dragon Run 50 years ago. Cadorna crest, a snake with its tail coiled around a weaver’s shuttle. Porphyris Cadorna’s father was suspected of having involvement in the Dragon Run because he had dealings with dragons (was he involved with the bronze dragon that would become Tyranthraxus’ host). Past Cadorna’s were magic users.
Gensor the mage, a council sponsored magic user who strengthens the defences of civilised Phlan. Wears black robes. His skin is ashen and shriveled, eyes a steel grey colour, looks like a corpse. Contracted the Black Watch for Porphyris Cadorna
First Councilman deals with magic (might be a wizard???).
Eighth Councilman deals with religion (he’s the high cleric of Tyr)
Second Councilman Silton, exposed as being incompetent by Porphyris Cadorna.
Councilmen can advance in position only if an existing councilman is removed.
Watch Warden (head of the Watch Guard)
Dessel, cleric of temple of Sune, rivalry and disputes with the temple of Tempus.
Park bordered by annonwood trees in the northeast corner of civilised phlan, near Denlor’s tower
Slums around the outside of Civilised Phlan, inhabited by slums and half breeds, acting as a buffer between New and Old Phlan
Black Watch, a band of efficient mercenaries used to secure Scholar’s Square. Operating near Phlan. Have access to a number of ships (schooners) to sail the Moonsea.
Cadorna becomes First Councilman and is later possessed by Tyranthraxus. The High Cleric of Tyr becomes Second Councilman (probably first now that Cadorna is gone)

Porphyris Cadorna
Porphyris Cadorna, tenth councilman of Phlan, last of the noble family of Cadorna, patient man, desires to rule Phlan. Ambitious, ruthless. Glutton but always skinny.
Carries a poison dagger held in a gold armlet (a family heirloom adorned with the Cadorna crest).
Communicates with the Lord of the Ruins by sending messages through hobgoblins.
Advanced to 4th Councilman after having Sokol Keep cleared and exposing Second Councilman Silton as incompetent.
Advanced to 2nd Councilman after having Cadorna Textile House cleared and then using the Black Watch mercenary group (Zhent mercenaries ???) contracted through Gensor to secure Scholar’s Square. Donated large sum of money to the Order of Tyr to secure backing of the 8th Councilman (head priest of Tyr in Phlan).
Plans to assassinate First Councilman and assume his position (orcish arrow most will assume is from goblinoids in Old Phlan). Black Watch will be ready to assume position as guards in New Phlan.
Stabbed Ranthor


Order of Tyr
Refer to themselves as Tyrians, not Tyrrans
Twelve from the Order of Tyr sent to deliver the sacred Hammer of Tyr to the first new temple in Phlan (it will provide symbolic strength), to be wielded by the head cleric of the temple
Donal, Anton (huge man), warriors and clerics of a sect worshiping Tyr the Even Handed, god of Justice and war. Tarl is a trainee in this sect.
Sontag, warrior cleric, eldest and leader of the twelve brothers
Test of the Hammer, Test of the Shield, Test of the Ball and Chain, tests to master basic techniques of each weapon.
Test of the Sword, a secret test to prove swords should not be used (they make a man bloodthirsty).
Adrian and Seriff drive the wagons
The Hammer of Tyr, a holy weapon (imbued with positive energy, destroys undead), returns when thrown. Emits a holy radiance (aura) of positive energy. Can shoot rays of positive energy. Can reflect magic.
Brother Tern, elder of the Temple of Tyr in Phlan
Order of Tyr Temples have an inner chamber where the first of four concentric squares clean of body, the second clean of extraneous thoughts, the third with a focus of purpose, and the final one with a focus on his god. While technically open to any worshiper of Tyr, few who were not grounded in the faith through years of clerichood and service bothered to enter, since a spiritual barrier prevented most from passing beyond the first or second square.
Pictures of Tyr depict a burly but gnarled, bearded old fellow with a hammer as big as his arm. The irony of references to his evenhandedness was that, from all accounts, he was missing one hand

Tarl Desanea
Junior brother in a sect that worships Tyr god of justice and war
20 years old. Joined the Order of Tyr at 18
Trained at Temple of the Order of Tyr in Vaasa
Has excellent healing abilities, said to be a gift from Tyr (wild talent???)
6 ft tall, silvery white hair

Ren o the Blade
Lived in Waterdeep a year ago, thieving with his girlfriend Tempest. They stole gems (ioun stones) and daggersfrom the head of the assassins guild and fled east. She was killed for the theft.
Ren now working in the Laughing Goblin Inn in Phlan for 3 weeks as a serving hand.
Large and muscular, 6 ft 7 inches
Ren thinks Shal looks like a twin of Tempest
Formerly a ranger in the wilds around the sword coast north.
Owns gloves that perfectly meld to his skin and hold a hidden lockpick and sneezing powder.

Tyranthraxus
Lord of the Ruins
Tyranthraxus the Great Possessor
Currently submerges himself in a Pool of Radiance
Needs ioun stones to create a circle of power and dominate all Phlan
Can mentally dominate all goblinoids within a large range
Been on the Material Plane for more than a millenium
Possessed lizards and squirrels on occasions but most often humans. Some powerful creatures can resist his possession.
The dragon was centuries old and already subverted by a powerful wizard’s mind control spell when Tyranthraxus possessed it.
Spent years researching the Figure of Power (the hexagonal symbol and ioun stone combination).
Tyranthraxus hired assassins to kill Tempest in Waterdeep.

Pool of Radiance
100 ft or more below Castle Valjevo
“Created” by Selune, used to purify her followers before arcane rituals
Tyranthraxus “Corrupted” the Pool of Radiance (by his presence or by blood).
Blood adds energy to the Pool of Radiance, that energy can be transferred to Tyranthraxus when immersed in it, boosting his magical power and making him immortal.

Pyramid of Yarash
Large silver pyramid upstream on Stojanow River, in the centre of an island of black sand in a large boggy lake
Silver pyramid is the symbol on the giant frogs.
Yarash rules at the pyramid, attempting to create new sea creatures.
Creating aquatic and amphibious humanoids is causing the pollution. These creatures can live in the pollution.
Teleport platform allows access to the inside of the pyramid
Denlor and Ranthor were working against Yarash and his plans.
Yarash wanted to dominate and pollute the entire Moonsea with his creations

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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
5279 Posts

Posted - 16 Jul 2020 :  11:37:21  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Been having a read of all things Phlan, think i will be looking at the Moonsea next when i do a reimagining.

Tyranthraxus supposedly tricked Srossar the bronze dragon into bathing in the pool of radiance around 100 years ago.

I reckon it was actually around 1270 Srossar entered the pool. A horde of humanoids rampaged out of Thar but seemingly did not damage Phlan (all other hordes had). What if Tyranthraxus tricked Srossar into delving into the pool by manufacturing a crisis that would require him (as the guardian of Phlan) to use the pool in its defence.

There are multiple pools of radiance and they are all linked so Srossar dives in and uses its magic to beat off the horde, but Tyranthraxus possesses him. To make the mind control hook true it is possible that Srossar was mentally linked to some of the noble rulers in Phlan (so they can call on him), which opens his mind to possession. Perhaps as a further twist, the symbol of the Cadornas was not originally a snake but was a wyrm.

Also found something about a barbarian called Dirg encountering Tyranthraxus. I reckon this Dirg and his lizard released Tyranthraxus from his prison that the baron placed him in in Longreach Lake.

Lots of interesting stuff happening in Phlan.

Now onto another Salvatore novel (urgh), the Halflings Gem.

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Seravin
Master of Realmslore

Canada
1141 Posts

Posted - 16 Jul 2020 :  12:33:04  Show Profile Send Seravin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The silver pyramids always intrigued me. I believe there are 3 others in the Realms and they pre-date Dale Reckoning? Very neat little tourist stop for the Phlan area.
On reflection, it's odd the Pool of Radiance novel didn't try to tie in the Zhents, as the game and module the book is based on had a Zhent base for the heroes to encounter. I guess the authors didn't feel comfortable using Ed's faction properly in those early days. But I like the take that Gensor is a Zhent operative very much. Makes a lot of sense.

In other canon, Phlan is under the Zhentarim thumb anyway.
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
5279 Posts

Posted - 16 Jul 2020 :  13:27:32  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yeah, I decided a long while ago that all these pyramids are spellweaver colonies (george gave me the idea).

Spellweavers started the baetith and the baetith was part of all the creator races so the pyramids presence explains the lizard men and frogs in the region and the weird magic yarash uses.

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ElfBane
Learned Scribe

USA
159 Posts

Posted - 16 Jul 2020 :  14:51:44  Show Profile Send ElfBane a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison


Now onto another Salvatore novel (urgh), the Halflings Gem.



Just wait till you get to the RAS novels that have Drizzt and Entreri do their 5-7 page long swordfights. I DO NOT like to read that stuff, so I just skim to see who wins. But, of course, the "loser" always has a convenient escape possibility... just so they don't die. AND WE CAN HAVE MORE 5-7 PAGE SWORDFIGHTS IN THE FUTURE!!!
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
5279 Posts

Posted - 16 Jul 2020 :  15:18:39  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm not super enthusiastic about this Ra
AS novel to be honest, never mind the uber mary sue pantomimes I expect them to become.

The last few novels have been great because they are full of pages of lore I can use, people places, snippets of history.

The crystal shard was surprisingly in the lore full category, streams of silver was less so and I expect halflings gem to be even less. I'm willing to give it the benefit of the doubt for now but I have resisted starting to read it immediately whereas I just dived straight into the next book.

Fight scenes just don't do it for me in novels, I'm all about the characters and the history and the interactions.

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ElfBane
Learned Scribe

USA
159 Posts

Posted - 16 Jul 2020 :  23:14:47  Show Profile Send ElfBane a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I just don't like the RAS swordfights. I like how he makes Drizzt, Entreri, and especailly Jarlaxle, become "alive" characters. He does a good job, IMO, of making the villains like Entreri and Jarlaxle become almost like anti-heroes. I think Jarlaxle is classic Neutral Evil... he does things for money. If paid enough, he will do a "good" thing. It's just 'show me the money' with him. RAS also does this with more minor characters in his novels.
BTW, Jarlaxle has a pet peeve,,, he will do anything, good, bad, or neutral, that will vex the Maiden Mothers.
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
5279 Posts

Posted - 19 Jul 2020 :  20:14:11  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
A quarter of the way through and so far I have 8 lines of lore, none of which I didn't already know and which couldn't be found in sourcebooks.

There isn't a single new npc in it so far, not even the name of a ship captain.

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Gary Dallison
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United Kingdom
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Posted - 21 Jul 2020 :  19:03:22  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ye gods will the combat never end. I'm on page 147 and the last 60 pages have been combat.

Thankfully it's nearly over and there was some lore, a handful of people spread over baldurs gate, memnon, and calimport. One or two inns.

The taros hoop has the expected amount of lore about it. I'm not entirely sure what it does, it appears to open a portal, but lavalle said it was so hideously evil that he felt that he lost a piece of himself every time he used it.

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Gary Dallison
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Posted - 22 Jul 2020 :  10:17:25  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Halflings Gem (1356 DR – 1357 DR)

The Tower of Twilight
Phases into existence during the hours of twilight, on a little pond amid Neverwinter Woods
Malchor Harpell, not eccentric like his kin in Longsaddle. Has played advisor to kings in the North. Was an adventurer in his youth.
Has a shining mithril shield, the crown of a long dead king, ancient tapestries and priceless gems.
Gives Drizzt the sword Twinkle, a sword forged by elves of a past age.


Other Lore
Pirates gather at the end of summer to prey on the last merchants of the season.
Calimport is 2000 miles south of Waterdeep
Waterdeep, Jewel of the North, ten times the size of Luskan
Dwarves have an old superstition against killing spiders (bad luck)
Waterdeep and Calimport do not always allow ships flying the colours of their rival city to dock in the harbour.
Pirates of Asavir’s Channel usually avoid pirating ships flying the colours of Calimshan. Pirates in the north usually avoid pirating ships of Waterdeep.
Pirate encounters usually end bloodless if the ship surrenders they sacrifice their cargo for their lives.
South of the Tethyrian Peninsula is a stretch of water called the Race, named for merchant vessels fleeing from pirate pursuit.
Calimshan claims all waters south of the Purple Hills.
Pinochet commands most of the pirates of the Pirate Isles. The pirates have a code of sorts that keeps them from open warfare with Sword Coast kingdoms. If a pirate vessel is captured by a merchant then the pirates will forego any vengeance against that merchant.
Sundews, creatures that are lumpy masses of raglike sticky tendrils that exude a syrupy sweet odour and capture (engulf and wrap in tendrils) and very slowly dissolve anything that gets too near. Used by the drow of Menzoberranzan and wererats of Calimport. Some substances can break the hold of a Sundew so they are also used to capture creatures.
General Dagnabit of Citadel Adbar leads 8000 dwarves to retake Mithril Hall General Dagnabit and 2000 dwarves stay in Mithril Hall, swearing allegiance to King Bruenor after it was retaken.
Barbarians from Icewind Dale settle in Settlestone and act as market bearers for Mithril Hall.

Neverwinter Woods
Agatha a long dead banshee, once an elf maiden and a mage, haunts the woods and terrorizes farmers. Her legend makes Conyberry famous and prevents bandits from making home in the woods nearby. Her lair is a cave of trees with a single crawl-hole to enter. Has a magical mask that disguises the wearer in any humanoid form he wants, elf, human, etc. It is a plain mask with a single cord
Birch trees

Artemis Entreri
“He had sold his soul for his skill, and if Drizzt Do'Urden defeated him, or even proved his equal, the assassin's existence would be no more than a wasted lie.”
Referred to Baldur’s Gate as home, knows it well and has been here many times before.
Used to control the streets of Calimport and allied himself with Pasha Pook. Built a network of allies in Calimport as part of his empire.

Conyberry
Inhabitants do not want Agatha harmed, they gave her the name Agatha

Waterdeep
Orlpar, a fence with contacts among every ship and sailor in Waterdeep. His brother is head of a noble house and that is of great benefit to Orlpar, but Orlpar’s exposure would cause great embarrassment. Arranges passage for people at a price, has cut many an unfair deal
Captain Deudermont of the Sea Sprite sets sail from Waterdeep heading south. Known as a fair and honest seaman. Tall, blue jacket, yellow beard. Refined man accustomed to dealing with lords and ladies.
Mirky, veteran sailor on the Sea Sprite.
Mermaids Arms, inn near Dock Street. Cheap wine and ale, full of rowdies. Sells exotic weeds (for smoking). Bungo is the brawling bully at the inn, has been so for 7 years.
Dock Street runs the length of Waterdeep Harbour. Every corner holds a tavern but the watch are always in sight. Hardy adventurers and warriors abound here.

Mithril Hall
Duergar of Clan McUduck, Clan Trilk
Lower mines lead to the furnaces of the undercity and finally the upper halls.
Undercity, located in a huge chasm with walls tiered into steps and lined with decorated doorways. The entirety of clan Battlehammer housed here with room to spare. Furnaces on the lowest floor level. Ten tiers in the chasm. One bridge tier ten (the highest tier traverses the chasm. Tunnels on tier five lead to the western end of the upper halls.
Three central forges on tier one (lowest tier). All the furnaces have chimneys leading up, all chimneys connected by passages (for cleaning), chimneys are connected to the surface not to any other part of Mithril Hall. The chimney exists are blocked by iron grates (prevent monsters getting in).

Baldur’s Gate
Halfway to everywhere, a common phrase in Baldur’s Gate
Harbourmasters office is a small shack just off the pier. Harbourmaster is known as Pellman, wiry, finely dressed.
Lower City of the docks, Upper city beyond the inner wall
The city burst its bounds with the wild growth of trade along the Sword Coast.
Oberon, a powerful wizard in Baldur’s Gate, an associate of Pasha Pook (loyal to him). Has a house in the Upper City. Owes Entreri a few favours as Entreri had killed for him several times several years ago.
Pinochet, a pirate lord that preys upon shipping around Baldur’s Gate, former associate of Pasha Pook and Oberon. Operates out of the Pirate Isles on ships in Asavir’s Channel, has at least 3 fully crewed pirate ships under his command (one with a catapult). Pinochet has lost several pirate ships before in battle.

Calimport
Pasha Pooks thieves guild is located in a nondescript, boarded up shack on Rogues’ Circle. Inside the guidhouse rivals the royal palace for luxury. Building is 3 floors high with 2 more floors below ground. Highest level reserved for Pasha Pook, has an octagonal audience chamber with 4 antechambers off it.
Pasha Pook guarded by4 hill giant eunuchs, has golden teeth. Pasha Pook has brought sultans to their knees.
Pasha Pook allied with the wererats 2 years ago and that brought him much additional power, enough to become the most powerful guild in Calimport. Dockside merchants pay him protection money.
Rassiter, wererat allied with Pasha Pook, wields a rapier, thick brown curly hair. Rassiter leads a group of wererats that aid Pasha Pook’s guild. Wererats act as enforcers and assassins.
Pasha Pook’s guild has limited power outside Calimport.
LaValle, wizard, works for Pasha Pook as an aide, old man with a diamond in his turban. Closest thing to a friend to Pasha Pook. Maintains contact with Oberon.
Entreris dispatched to retrieve the gem 3 years ago.
Regis stole the ruby pendant over 8 years ago, causing Pasha Pook’s guild to lose power and forcing an alliance with the wererats.
Mancas Tiveros, Mancas the Mighty, a wizard in Calimport that once rivaled with LaValle over claims about who created a spell. Mancas disappeared suddenly and was never seen again.
Devil Dancer, a fast merchant ship registered in Calimport
Pasha Pook runs the brothels in Calimport, thats how he met Regis and made him a thief
Cells of the Nine, a dungeon below Pook’s thieves guild. The central cell holds the prisoner, the other cells arranged around it hold Pasha Pooks favoured hunting animals (large cats). Prisoners left along in the dark surrounded by hungry great cats.
The Coiled Snake, a cheap inn
Dondon, a halfling fence and master con artist, used to work for Artemis Entreri, rents a room at the Coiled Snake. Is a wererat in service to Rassiter (but he does not like being a wererat or Rassiter).
Pasha Pook controls the docks and the merchants, through Rassiter and his gang he has the streets under control as well.
The Spitting Camel, an inn on Rogues Circle
Rassiter and the wererats live in the sewers below Calimport.
Pasha Pook’s guildhouse has a secret entrance from the sewers.
The Taros Hoop, an artefact of evil owned by Pasha Pook, the hoop itself is large enough for a man to walk through. The hoop is filled with spidery web like strands of immense strength that hold the portal open. Linked to a thin sceptre capped by an enormous black pearl (used to activate the hoop). Opens a two way portal to anywhere in the planes.
Pasha Pook carries a meticulously carved, silver shod walking stick given to him by the Pasha of Calimshan (magic???). Owns an enchanted heavy crossbow, very magically powerful (enough to allow a bolt to pierce the magical shield of the king of mithril hall).

Regis
Grew up as a waif on the streets of Calimport
Charmed his way into being a cook in a brothel. The ladies introduced him to Pook

Memnon
Sali Dalib, has gold and ivory teeth. Pretends to be a merchant and lures people into ambushes with desert raiders.

Guenhwyvar[/b]
The statuette cannot be harmed by any mundane means, the mightiest smith could not harm it with his heaviest hammer.
Guenhwyvar cannot be killed (slaying the cat returns it to the Astral Plane).
Guenhwyvar is only one of many panthers trapped with Guenhwyvar. The statuette is not a figurine of wondrous power it is a key to allow travel between the Material Plane and their Astral prison.


Drizzt Do Urden[/b]
The ice scimitar drains the energies of the demodand when plunged into its heart and desires more, giving some of the energy to the wielder.


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Edited by - Gary Dallison on 22 Jul 2020 14:40:27
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Gary Dallison
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United Kingdom
5279 Posts

Posted - 22 Jul 2020 :  10:26:07  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thankfully that is over. Hopefully the Wyvern's Spur will be crammed full of lore.

A few things to think about.

The Taros Hoop, it repeatedly mentions spidery webbing, and it is mentioned as a hideously evil artefact. I wonder if it is drow in origin, a way for them to easily summon their demon allies.

Guenhwyvar, at the end of the book he appears with an army of panthers through the statuette that Regis held. Now the first question is where did these other panthers come from. I've come to the conclusion that Guenhwyvar is not a figurine of wondrous power at all. The descriptions of how the statuette works make it seem like these panther like creatures were imprisoned in a demiplane and the statuette acts as a portal generator to and from that plane. So who imprisoned these panther creatures, where did they come from, when did it happen, and how many other statuettes exist.


The names were truly awful in this book, almost as though RAS was consciously taking the p**s to see how far he could push the editors before they would stop him. Pinochet, Dagnabit, Clan McUduck, Deudermont. I will have to phonetically alter all of these to make them less crap.

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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
5279 Posts

Posted - 22 Jul 2020 :  13:59:46  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The wyvernspur is more like the novels I like, 20 pages in and I already have 2 full pages of notes and a host of people and places detailed.

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Seravin
Master of Realmslore

Canada
1141 Posts

Posted - 22 Jul 2020 :  14:28:52  Show Profile Send Seravin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The Wyvern's Spur is about my favorite Realms novel (well, top 3 anyway) so I'm looking forward to your lore review! Only issue is that I've deliberately not read it in years (saving it for a special occasion to re-read) and I kind of want to forget as much as possible before I re-read it again lol.
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Thojan Ralwens
Seeker

Belgium
29 Posts

Posted - 23 Jul 2020 :  08:39:46  Show Profile Send Thojan Ralwens a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Admirable work, Gary. Thank you very much ! I can't wait for the next collections.

Edited by - Thojan Ralwens on 23 Jul 2020 08:40:13
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Gary Dallison
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United Kingdom
5279 Posts

Posted - 23 Jul 2020 :  09:32:42  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Glad to see people are getting something out of it. Im doing it for purely selfish reasons as I need the novel lore to flesh out my rework of various regions, but I figure why not share it.

I think I have a problem lore wise. The wyvernspurs founded immersea but there were only 15 generations of wyvernspurs which approximates to about 375 years. So unless immersea was founded around 1000 DR or some of the wyvernspurs are incredibly long lived there may be a problem. I need to look into cormyr more to explore this.

It is possible that whatever immersea was before 1000 DR was razed by some baddie like the witchlords, and then refounded by the wyvernspurs. Of course some of the early wyvernspurs could be long lived. Finder Wyvernspur is still alive and there is no indication of how or why as yet. It could be that the wyverns spur Grant's longevity and that no longer applies because it's been locked in the crypt for many generations.

I'm also not buying the story that Patton wyvernspur rescued a bunch of baby wyverns from bandits and returned them to their mother. More likely the wyverns were an allegory for some group or individuals that are symbolised by wyverns. The witchlords owned the wyverncrown so perhaps Paton wyvernspur (he would have had a different name before that) actually rescued some of the witchlords).

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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
5986 Posts

Posted - 23 Jul 2020 :  17:50:17  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Paton Wyvernspur was indeed the founder of this house and he lived from 926 DR to 976 DR (as per the family tree in the front of he novel). And yes, I suspect that there is more to their story given that they are able to shapechange into wyverns. A link to the Witch Lords is likely, although the battle that defeats them occurs in 900 DR, before Paton is born. I suspect that his grandfather fought in that war, obtained the wyvern's spur as booty and then Paton went on to be raised to the nobility by Galaghard III in that king's declining years or by Rhigaerd I due to "services rendered". There's a story there, that's for sure.

-- George Krashos


"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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Gary Dallison
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Posted - 23 Jul 2020 :  17:58:02  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yes that sounds like a good place to start. There are several surviving witch lords and as well as commanding wyverns I wouldn't be surprised to find it granted shape change into them as well.

It's such a shame most of cormyr history is NDA, which means no one will touch it with a barge pole.

The tomb guardian is also a puzzle as well. It assumes the form of a wyvern shadow, knows about their curse, and has some connection to the wyvernspurs. It isn't linked to the wyvernspur itself but seems happy to guard it.
I suspect that Paton wyvernspur or perhaps some later wyvernspur found this creature in the tunnels beneath redstone (which I also think extend beneath the wyvernwater) and discovered they were related and bargained it to help them.
The wyverns spur wasnt always stored with the guardian (that happened only relatively recently). I'm guessing that the tomb guardian is actually an ancient ancestor of the wyvernspurs and possibly a former witchlord.

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Gary Dallison
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Posted - 23 Jul 2020 :  18:50:37  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Patons grandfather defected from the witchlords to cormyr side, helping turn the tide of the war with his inside information (I believe cormyr were losing at one point).

Patons granddad was related to the current reigning witchlord, maybe a son or grandson.

During the war patons granddad cuts the spur off a transformed witchlord (the curse of the wyverncrown turns them evil, what if it also transforms them into a wyvern). But in the confusion it becomes lost, that is why paton asks to lead the effort to refound immersea, it is not chance, he wanted to come back and search the battlefield for the wyverns spur

Patons grandad is not allowed to become noble because of his origins. His son is granted a non hereditary title. It is paton himself who is given a chance and earns his nobility by refounding immersea. In the tunnels beneath he finds the shadow of the slain witchlord and the wyverns spur itself (lost in the chaos of the war) and chooses the noble name of wyvernspur.

The story of him returning the children is a metaphor. The bandits are cormyr, the wyverns are the witchlord. Paton could be one of the children returned and perhaps he marries a local girl that is also of the witchlord line (marrying cousins is not unheard of, it even happened in the wyvernspur lineage that I glanced at quickly).

Just an idea or two.

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Edited by - Gary Dallison on 23 Jul 2020 18:52:35
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Gary Dallison
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Posted - 23 Jul 2020 :  20:53:59  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thought i'd found another potential error

Tales about Cole Wyvernspur, one set in "aught eight" when the gnolls came down from the north.

I wasnt entirely certain but i thought aught might mean zero. googling the word it seems aught is an old english word for zero so aught eight would mean 1308 is the year it happened but Cole was born in 1318 DR.

So add in that wonderful Cormyr Reckoning adjustment and gnolls came down from the north in 1333 DR or 1308 CR. Which means Cole first met Shar his future father in law in 1333 DR and then rescued he from a red wizard the following year most likely and married her soon after and had Giogi almost immediately.

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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
5986 Posts

Posted - 24 Jul 2020 :  00:17:13  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
As I recall that family lineage in the book (which comes wholly from Jeff and Kate - Ed's is very different) may have CR to DR issues. I'll have to take a look at it in detail.

And it does have some interesting aspects, like first cousins marrying ...and then second cousins marrying straight after. I wonder if the "Wyvernspur chin" is a thing ...?

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus

Edited by - George Krashos on 24 Jul 2020 01:17:32
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
5986 Posts

Posted - 24 Jul 2020 :  00:38:36  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison

Thought i'd found another potential error

Tales about Cole Wyvernspur, one set in "aught eight" when the gnolls came down from the north.

I wasnt entirely certain but i thought aught might mean zero. googling the word it seems aught is an old english word for zero so aught eight would mean 1308 is the year it happened but Cole was born in 1318 DR.

So add in that wonderful Cormyr Reckoning adjustment and gnolls came down from the north in 1333 DR or 1308 CR. Which means Cole first met Shar his future father in law in 1333 DR and then rescued he from a red wizard the following year most likely and married her soon after and had Giogi almost immediately.



The original book lineage has Cole born in 1294 DR which makes the "aught eight" reference work - kinda, as he is only 14 at the time. Will have to look at the "revised" lineage that's on the internet and work out why they changed some stuff. If memory serves me right this came up on the old Realms-L listserv list decades ago. Shame the archives are now gone. I believe the issue was Giogioni's birth date of 1310 DR which made him way too old by the time of the events of the novel. Strangely though they add 25 years, when it should be 26 if its a CR to DR transposition but then the changes only start from Lord Krohn and not earlier.

Obviously, as you have pointed out, the easy solution is that when they are talking about "aught eight" they are talking in CR which makes it 1334 DR. Might have to revise the updated and revised Wyvernspur lineage.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus

Edited by - George Krashos on 24 Jul 2020 00:39:32
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Eilserus
Master of Realmslore

USA
1410 Posts

Posted - 24 Jul 2020 :  00:44:42  Show Profile Send Eilserus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ed's Shadows of the Avatar trilogy has a goldmine of lore too. Which reminds me, I should ask Ed about The Door Obler Had Forgotten and that Lost Library of Netheril spells!
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