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TheIriaeban
Senior Scribe

USA
462 Posts

Posted - 21 Jun 2020 :  15:35:08  Show Profile Send TheIriaeban a Private Message  Reply with Quote
What about Kanchelsis? There is another god that hates elves and it would make sense that it would take his knowledge of blood/blood magic to create a living being. It could be that those 13 beings are his initial foothold in the Realms and may be part of some greater plan. That would also explain why it took place in Westgate. Kanchelsis was able to send a vision to the Night King about this so that is why the Night Masks allowed it to happen there. Of course, Vampshoon comes along later and kills the Night King and completely messes that plan up.

"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."

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TBeholder
Great Reader

2025 Posts

Posted - 21 Jun 2020 :  16:00:28  Show Profile Send TBeholder a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison

Phalse clearly said he was a rival of Moanders, I guess that is why he wanted to kill Moander so badly.

If that is true, Phalse is a godly being of some sort.

Or he's just feeling ambitious. Being a fiend, and all that.
quote:
Further support is that Elminster sealed the portal to Phalse's domain, there would be no need if Phalse were truly dead.

There's no need to close a portal to Lower Planes unless there's specifically Phalse on the other end?

quote:
Also the citadel of white exile. The sky is a series of white swirls. This could easily be the steel sky of abeir.

Of what?
quote:

Makes far more sense to exile nameless to a planet out of phase with this one than some demiplane that any idiot can create a gate to (cassana did it easily).

First, exactly how would "any idiot" create a gate to a place if its very existence is unknown?
Second, not a demiplane, but one of the border citadels, between the Mineral and Positive planes.
No one is going to just walk in there by accident. And to visit it on purpose, one needs very good reasons and some way to find it. Because:
- Mineral happens to be full of precious gems, yet plundering it is quite an uncommon pastime, between tough and aggressive inhabitants and petrification of non-natives.
- Positive is an infinite mostly-empty expanse of blazing nothingness that quickly destroys those unprotected, thus practically no one stays for a long while, much less travels through it in hope of accidentally running into something interesting in all the blinding light.

quote:
Originally posted by Seravin

Everyone gives plausible reasons for Phalse to work for Moander, my issue is that the authors didn't give us this in the book

Sure they did: the conspiracy needed participation of a deity, because they just couldn't do some things without one.
Implicitly, they also had to find a god who
- will work with them,
- will not take over, and perhaps
- has the right abilities.
There just isn't a great market for such co-conspirators. And Moander was right there.
Also, they could guess that immediately upon release It would make a huge mess, which hopefully could help them by distracting everyone else.

People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch

Edited by - TBeholder on 21 Jun 2020 16:06:37
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
5279 Posts

Posted - 21 Jun 2020 :  16:48:34  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well the any idiot came from the fact that cassana was able to discover the existence of this place and create a portal to it after only finding a mention of the nameless bards existence in a letter written by one of his apprentices. I don't believe cassana is particularly long lived, she certainly isn't very wise (just ruthless and ambitious).
So either the apprentice was stupidly informed of nameless' fate, or cassana was able to find out of the existence of a prison for a person imprisoned centuries ago, and which the Harper's spent a long time trying to expunge his name and works from existence.

So in the final battle we find the portal cassana made (or had phalse made), then there is the portal to phalses domain or moanders domain (either the author was confused or phalse cannot be believed), and then elminster appears and says he should make note of the portal cassana/phalse made to get there, implying there is another one.

So this super secret place that shouldn't exist has at least 3 portals to it.


As for the planar nonsense, I don't believe travelling the planes comes with a guide book, so what it is described as being is only where they believe it to be located based upon its characteristics. If we can find anywhere else with similar characteristics then they could be wrong.

And lastly phalse says the portal goes to moanders domain, later it is mentioned as the portal to phalses domain. The assumption is that it is to the abyss, but in truth it could be to anywhere.


I am a big fan of the unreliable narrator. I'm not going to take anything in these novels as written, it makes it much more interesting to think of how these older novels would fit into the realms with the lore we have now about people and places.

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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
34002 Posts

Posted - 21 Jun 2020 :  17:17:35  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison

Well the any idiot came from the fact that cassana was able to discover the existence of this place and create a portal to it after only finding a mention of the nameless bards existence in a letter written by one of his apprentices. I don't believe cassana is particularly long lived, she certainly isn't very wise (just ruthless and ambitious).
So either the apprentice was stupidly informed of nameless' fate, or cassana was able to find out of the existence of a prison for a person imprisoned centuries ago, and which the Harper's spent a long time trying to expunge his name and works from existence.

So in the final battle we find the portal cassana made (or had phalse made), then there is the portal to phalses domain or moanders domain (either the author was confused or phalse cannot be believed), and then elminster appears and says he should make note of the portal cassana/phalse made to get there, implying there is another one.

So this super secret place that shouldn't exist has at least 3 portals to it.



Or maybe the Citadel predated Nameless being put there, and Cassana found out about it some other way. She could have already known about it, but didn't have any reason to look there until she learned about Nameless.

Or maybe when she found out about Nameless she put a lot of time and effort into looking for him.

The letter didn't even have to explicitly refer to Finder or the Nameless Bard -- it could have been something like, "I wish we could still perform this ballad my former teacher wrote" without anything more specific.

Plus, we know that Harper efforts weren't entirely successful, since Olive was able to discover his name.

And having two portals created leading to a particular place AFTER the portal creators learned of its existence doesn't mean it wasn't secret before -- unless you want to ignore the 300ish years that Finder was there alone.

Elminster's presence there does not imply the existence of a third gate. As I recall, he said he didn't travel directly there -- but even if he did, as a high-level wizard, he had other options for getting there.

Really, there are plenty of very reasonable and likely scenarios, if you would take a moment to look for them instead of automatically leaping to attack something.

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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
5279 Posts

Posted - 21 Jun 2020 :  20:09:20  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I wouldn't say I was attacking the book or the writer. The villains are stupid, it's a common theme in most realms novels that many others have identified, they behave in a fairly simple manner blinded by their own cruelty, ambition, and lust for power.

I think there is a reason for this, elminster said it in spellfire, certain mages want purely the power that magic brings, they are blind to its intricacies, and these are the villains that adventurers will most often come up against.

The smart villains are the truly dangerous ones that you never see or hear about, that are hiding behind the scenes.

So cassana the cruel is stupid, powerful yes but stupid, she links her health and vigour to a wand that she uses on a regular basis and brandished for all to see. The fire knives are stupid enough to be duped by cassana and pay for the entire azure bonds experiment. Moander is stupid in that he immediately goes on the rampage once released rather than rebuilding his strength, zrie is stupid in that he is just a puppet of cassana, and phalse is probably the only dangerous one there manipulating all the others but the novel leaves his motives and backstory completely undetailed.

The realms are also full of deus ex machina and bizarre set pieces that exist only as plot devices. The citadel of white exile is one of these. As a super secret prison it's a poor choice, being situated in the planes that are open to travel from every outer planar being capable of such travel plus the sum total of every material plane wizard capable of planar travel. The only limitation to finding such a place is that it is not meant to be well known but there is at least one letter still known to detail it and enough clues for one of the stupid villains to follow. Even worse it has at least 3 portals connected to it.

Now a pre existing prison is a great idea, I will use that, but it would have been better situated in a world phased out of existence that almost nobody knew about (until the spellplague).

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Seravin
Master of Realmslore

Canada
1141 Posts

Posted - 21 Jun 2020 :  21:30:44  Show Profile Send Seravin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
So really, Cassana, Zrie and Phalse either have very shallow petty un-interesting motives (vanity project for Cas) or no motive mentioned or given by the authors to go through all the trouble of creating Alias and ultimately die for creating her and gain nothing from it. Nor do we know what Phalse hoped to gain by creating a midling sell-sword golem that can't even dispatch a level 2 unsuspecting fat priest midspell cast or a level 0 (at the time) nobleman. I may tweet or FB Jeff Grubb so he can explain more about why Phalse wanted her beyond a curiosity? I get that Phalse needed Moander or some god to give life to Alias, I don't get why he wanted Alias so badly he'd work with Moander who he hated. That was my point. It would be much more understandable if Alias was some sort of one man army, immune to magic, perfect killing machine. But she isn't *in the books*..though Wooly has a good point in that she may have been spoiled from reaching her fighting potential, even if the novel again doesn't say anything of the sort.
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
5279 Posts

Posted - 25 Jun 2020 :  22:06:44  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Streams of Silver is almost as hard a slog to read as the Moonshae trilogy.

Almost no lore of any value. They trudge endlessly across the north slaying hundreds of trolls with single blows. They get disheartened and start to lose, they have a bit of a morale booster and win. A repeated pattern over and over.

If drizzts eyes flash lavender flames one more time I might just one shot my laptop.

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TheIriaeban
Senior Scribe

USA
462 Posts

Posted - 25 Jun 2020 :  23:47:54  Show Profile Send TheIriaeban a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison

Streams of Silver is almost as hard a slog to read as the Moonshae trilogy.

Almost no lore of any value. They trudge endlessly across the north slaying hundreds of trolls with single blows. They get disheartened and start to lose, they have a bit of a morale booster and win. A repeated pattern over and over.

If drizzts eyes flash lavender flames one more time I might just one shot my laptop.



Well, those were all the "runt" trolls (1 hp/die) that escaped up North because the other trolls were mean to them.

Also, lavender flames is what the drow call pink eye so cut the poor guy a break. He was crying the whole time.

"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."

My FR writeups - http://www.mediafire.com/folder/um3liz6tqsf5n/Documents
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Seravin
Master of Realmslore

Canada
1141 Posts

Posted - 26 Jun 2020 :  14:53:36  Show Profile Send Seravin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yeah, I think the lore in Streams of Silver would be around The Arcane Brotherhood, Longsaddle, Uthgardt Barbarians, Nesme, Silverymoon, The Herald's Holdfast (spelling?), Alustriel, and obviously Mithral Hall.
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
5279 Posts

Posted - 26 Jun 2020 :  20:54:55  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Finally something interesting.

Huge monolith at the entrance to keepers dale that were ancient long before the dwarves settled here.

Given its location and size I'd be tempted to make them of giant construction.

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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
5279 Posts

Posted - 27 Jun 2020 :  10:55:19  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Based upon a stray comment about Clan Battlehammer being cursed to craft a perfect item and then lose all interest in crafting forever, i'm starting to wonder where and when this began.

Streams of Silver mentions a hero called Bruenor, the namesake of Bruenor himself. Bruenor the hero it would seem owned (and presumably crafted) armour, a shield, and an axe that King Garumn would wear in his last defence of Mithril Hall.


So i wonder if Bruenor the hero is not the founder of Clan Battlehammer, and he made some kind of deal with a dark power ages ago during the time of Delzoun perhaps. With that pact he crafted the greatest of items known in the dwarven realm, and achieved great notoriety as a result. He founded Clan Battlehammer and became a great hero with these relics of power.

Unfortunately his entire bloodline was cursed through the pact he made. Driven to craft the perfect items the clan was kept on the move searching for the purest of materials to craft their great works, eventually coming to find Mithril Hall.


So what dark power could the bargain have been made with to grant such an powerful gift and equally destructive curse. There are the hags found in the north, there are the demons and devils of Ascalhorn (although i dont think they would do much more than slaughter the dwarves).

Any thoughts?

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TheIriaeban
Senior Scribe

USA
462 Posts

Posted - 27 Jun 2020 :  17:11:31  Show Profile Send TheIriaeban a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Why go outside the dwarven pantheon? Abbathor, if you go back far enough, could have been the culprit. Demi-human Deities has this to say:

"The Great Master of Greed was once interested purely in the natural beauty of gems and metals, but became embittered when Moradin appointed Dumathoin the protector of mountain dwarves - a position Abbathor felt should be his. From that day onward, Abbathor has become ever more devious and self-serving, continually trying to wreak revenge on the other dwarven gods by establishing greed, especially evil greed, as the driving force in the lives of all dwarves."

Over time, he has focused on greed but if the curse happened closer to the event listed above, he could have easily created a crafting curse. Plus, the dwarf that actually made the deal may not have thought of Abbathor as evil but looking back through modern eyes, he would be considered a "dark power".

"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."

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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
5279 Posts

Posted - 27 Jun 2020 :  17:25:01  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The problem with blaming the curse on a god is that it takes the focus away from the realms.

If I blamed it on an annis hag for instance I have a being that I can flesh out that may have lived in the savage frontier, that I can tie to other people and places and may have tempted more dwarves in the same way.

For example given the timeline it may be that bruenor battlehammer were from ammarindar and he fled south to the far hills and then made his way north to citadel adbar and others. Along the way he comes across an annie hag and makes a deal that will allow him to create a set of items powerful enough to help him reclaim his homeland.

Unfortunately such a pact always has a twist. He makes the armour and axe and shield but in doing so he loses his lust for life and falls into a depression and ultimately the hag claims his soul upon his death.

The curse passes to his children and their children and they lose the desire to retake ammarindar, instead lusting for the purest mithril do they can complete their life quest and make these true treasures.

Along the way the souls of all these dwarves claimed by the rigours of making these items all go to enrich the hag and she uses then to bargain with demons. Bruenor did not realise the hag he bargained with had a hand in the downfall of ammarindar and would ally themselves with hellgate keep to plague the north.



Or alternatively I blame it on abbathor and come up with a few rituals and rites and lore that means clan battlehammer always has a shrine to abbathor in its halls. But it's all very much devoid from the rest of the realms history. It's one of the primary reasons I always try to ground every event to a person or place in the realms even if the official line is a god did it.

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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
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USA
34002 Posts

Posted - 27 Jun 2020 :  17:41:53  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yeah, putting the blame on a deity of the Realms takes the focus away from the setting that deity is a part of.

And trying to strip away every single reference to something built into the setting by its creator, that's TOTALLY not taking away from the setting.

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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
5279 Posts

Posted - 27 Jun 2020 :  17:57:33  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Not really. Where it says a god did it, I change that to be a priest of the god or a fortuitous accident. There is nothing to say the god wasnt involved and didn't influence the person to act on his behalf or didn't manipulate events in his favour, but equally it is not explicitly written in stone that the deity appeared and did it himself.

One way allows for multiple different ways for an event to be manipulated and caused. The other way is that the god did it and that's it because nothing can really challenge a god.

So take for example a fictitious event in which a certain god created an artefact. This happens off stage, it's totally down to that god, it works only towards the gods will and there is nothing that can be done about it. Then take the alternative, a priest of the God actually crafted the artefact, or perhaps just some random nutter that was influenced by dream visions (because he happened to have the components or the skill necessary to perform the task) he makes it according to his design and not some divine plan so it is flawed and unpredictable, and while its purpose may be to kill certain types of people it may have other powers and motivations.
Furthermore the creator was aided by several assistants and they all had their own motivations and agendas (some may have even served rival gods or been influenced by different visions), they add in their own powers and purpose that may have been counter to the original creators.
The components they used might have been flawed as the creator ran out of money partway through and bought some on the cheap or a rival church caused a shortage in some vital ingredient.


In the non God version there are a hundred and one little interesting bits to be added to the history of an item. It's still that the god was involved and in fact multiple divine beings and even powerful planar beings could be involved and at cross purposes. Whereas if the god did it then he made it spontaneously using his divine power and that is the end of its creation story and it's all very one sided.

Gods do not add to the richness of the setting when used as plot protagonists and antagonists, they detract from the variety. They should always be secret movers and shakers rather than the main players.

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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
34002 Posts

Posted - 27 Jun 2020 :  18:42:18  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
We've seen your posts. Even if they're not protagonists or antagonists, you still voice your dislike of them and do everything you can to pretend they don't exist.

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TheIriaeban
Senior Scribe

USA
462 Posts

Posted - 27 Jun 2020 :  18:50:06  Show Profile Send TheIriaeban a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Depends, really, on how they are used. Maybe the original dwarf prayed to Moradin and Moradin didn't think the dwarf worthy enough for the gift. The dwarf then prayed to Abbathor so Abbathor twisted it into a curse. Moradin had been watching (since the dwarf had already gotten his attention) and decided to use this as a teaching moment so he gave the dwarf an out once the dwarf realized it was a curse: A prophesy that the curse would be lifted when a dwarf of his line had named a drow his best friend, had a human as his offspring, taught an enemy everything he knew, and reclaimed his home. Bruenor may not even know about that but it gave his ancestors hope and it could be that he would only know of it when a priest of Moradin showed up and said "Behold! The great wisdom of Moradin makes itself known." The losing the desire to create anything again is gone but the gift at making great items remains. That seems like something a god would do and also gives the gods that air of mystery while also putting a framework around seeming random events.

"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."

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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
5279 Posts

Posted - 27 Jun 2020 :  19:09:59  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The moradin and abbathor thing sounds plausible for either/both gods, but what lore did it add to the realms itself, any new characters or history or items.

In order to beat the gods curse you need another god. Whereas the curse of a living creature can be broken by a suitable quest, by fulfilling whatever contract was made originally or by bargaining with more powerful individuals. All of this could add to the realms itself, some great quest, some new item, some powerful new antagonist.

Beating the god requires a more powerful god and just leads to that power creep problem that resulted in Ao.

I like the gods in the realms, I have detailed more on their churches than most other organisations, they provide relics, people, power, motivation. But when a god turns up and solves or causes a problem directly it adds very little to the realms itself which has always been about real people.

Name your favourite realms events. Time of Troubles many people hated because of the gods (some loved it but it divided the fanbase). Who loved the lolth going silent and the killing of selvetarm, vhaeraun, eilistraee, and the destruction of loads of drow cities without any detail. Who loved Shar doing so much evil in the realms. Who loved the bit where cyric killed mystra and caused the spellplague.


Whereas, who liked or found interesting the death of azoun and the war in cormyr. Who was interested in the manshoon wars or the Harper schism. If you didn't like these events did you hate them so much that you ignored them completely (because many ignored the god events completely or wish they had never happened).

A player can take part in the manshoon wars or the Harper schism, what can he do about cyric killing mystra and helm marrying whoever.

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TheIriaeban
Senior Scribe

USA
462 Posts

Posted - 27 Jun 2020 :  19:54:18  Show Profile Send TheIriaeban a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Oh, I am just spit-balling. If desired, the Moradin/Abbathor thing could be filled out with the members of Bruenor's line, the item(s) that each of them made, and maybe even some events where they tried to "move the prophesy along" by marrying a human or being killed because they thought they had found a drow they could trust. You asked for suggestions so this is what popped into my head.

"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."

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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
5279 Posts

Posted - 27 Jun 2020 :  22:53:44  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I did ask, and you gave a good suggestion, I'm just setting out the limitations I like to work under, my response was more towards Wooly.

I will be looking for any connection between abbathor and the likes of ammarindar, delzoun, oghrann, and any other dwarven state in the realms because while a hag is most likely able to provide the gift/curse to a dwarf I do not think any self respecting dwarf would accept such a thing from a hag. However he might accept help from a priest of abbathor (even a disguised being posing as a priest) if all other avenues of help were exhausted.

It may be that the original bruenor battlehammer was to prideful to be given divine aid in the final days of his people and so feeling he had been abandoned he turned to abbathor. The current bruenor is very proud and it leads him astray several times.

I vaguely recall a group of abbathor worshippers near the labyrinth in the underdark. It's a growing possibility.

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Lord Karsus
Great Reader

USA
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Posted - 28 Jun 2020 :  00:18:28  Show Profile Send Lord Karsus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
-Slightly related, I found the Novel Index that was started on the WoTC boards. A lot of it wasn't indexed it seems like, and only the basic things in the first post, but it's something for a couple of locations and characters.
https://web.archive.org/web/20090430101828/http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1062902

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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
34002 Posts

Posted - 28 Jun 2020 :  03:10:21  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison

I like the gods in the realms, I have detailed more on their churches than most other organisations, they provide relics, people, power, motivation. But when a god turns up and solves or causes a problem directly it adds very little to the realms itself which has always been about real people.



And yet, despite this one claim to like the gods, you constantly bitch about every single mention of them and go out of your way to remove them from everything you possibly can.

Religion is a very real thing in the Realms. Even without gods directly turning up (which is quite rare, despite your assertions otherwise), there is still a lot that happens due to divine influence -- usually, people acting on behalf of the gods they worship, or in ways they think their deity will want. Your constant efforts to remove everything divine is robbing the setting of one of the things that makes things happen.

You can say the Realms is about people, but it's more accurate to say that the Realms is about its characters. Human, elf, dwarf, orc, lich, dragon -- and deity. It's all one huge, complex mix of elements. Each of those elements influences others in countless, ever-changing ways. It's a melting pot of motivations and causes and effects and every taste is going to contain a different combination of flavors.

The gods of the Realms are as much a part of the setting as any mortal characters are. We knew about them before we knew about most of the mortal characters of the setting -- because they are an intrinsic part of it.

Constantly trying to ignore them or write them out doesn't add to the setting -- it detracts from it.

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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
5279 Posts

Posted - 28 Jun 2020 :  14:49:24  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Streams of Silver (1356 DR)

Shimmergloom
Shadow dragon, part of an attack on dwarves, Shimmergloom devoured the bulk of the dwarven army that fought its allies?.
Now attended by a host of slaves, given regular sacrifices.
Referred to as a demon spawned dragon by the dwarves of Mithril Hall. Shimmergloom broke open the walls of the Hall of Dumathoin, breached many other dwarven defences and slew 9/10 of all dwarves.
Duergar servants
Shadow Hound servants.
When Mithril Hall fell, Shimmergloom slew the majority of dwarves in the mines but could not finish the job as many dwarves fled to the western halls of the upper levels where Shimmergloom could not fit.
A powerful entity on the shadow plane (lord???) before coming to Mithril Hall (why???)
Supposedly slain by the companions, fell burning into the depths of Garumn’s Gorge with Bruenor atop his back.


Icewind Dale
Barren tundra
Wind always blows from the east
Once past the Spine of the World its a hundred miles or so to Luskan
Fender Mallot – one of the dwarves of Icewind Dale, best fighter in Icewind Dale (after Bruenor)
Grollo – one of the dwarves of Icewind Dale


The Ten Towns
Right of Possession – anything left abandoned for more than a week can be claimed by the next to find it.


Bruenor Battlehammer
Red hair
Notched axe
Shield emblazoned with a foaming mug
Horned helm, dented a lot


Artemis Entreri
Best assassin in Faerun
Tracked Regis the halfling since he fled Calimport, all the way to the Ten Towns of Icewind Dale.
Carries a jewelled dagger


Regis
Halfling thief, served Pasha Pook in Calimport
Kept a signet ring that identified him as a thief in Pasha Pook’s service.
Owns a ruby pendant that can implant suggestions. Victims of the suggestion become angry after a short time.


Cattie-Brie
Auburn hair, blue eyes, beautiful
Orphaned by a goblin raid a dozen years ago, adopted by Bruenor Battlehammer.


Luskan
The City of Sails
Home to 15000 people
Encompassed by a wall with guard towers at regular intervals.
Gates are open for merchants, regular travelers are turned away
Dislikes non humans, including dwarves and elves.
Nightkeepers man the gates after sunset. Daykeepers man the gates after dawn.
Jierdan, guard at the Northgate of Luskan, accompanied Sydney and Entreri to look for Drizzt and companions. Stabbed in the back by Entreri
The merchants of Luskan pay the wage of the guards of Luskan.
Last lane (called Half Moon Street before the piers along the north wall by the docks is where the Cutlass lies, the Cutlass is an inn. It is a place for thieves, criminals, and vagabonds.
Luskan’s streets tightly packed with 3 story buildings, people want to stay safe within the city walls so build up rather than outward.
Dock section is the roughest part of the city Perpetual fog blows in from the sea to cover the alleys and streets.
Rat Alley, a street in Luskan, just off the piers, parallel to the sea. Warehouses on both sides. Whisper (a young woman) can be contacted in Rat Alley. Whisper is a fence of information (including maps, has a map with Mithril Hall on it). Stabbed in the back by Artemis Entreri
City code states that travelers must leave their horses with the stables inside the wall.

Hosttower Arcane
Sydney, 25 years old, not pretty, lesser mage in the hosttower arcane, uses Jierdan (guard) as a contact to monitor people coming into Luskan. Sydney serves under Dendybar the Mottled. Keeps Harkle Harpell (in Longsaddle) as a contact pretending to like him, they communicate through scrying devices (magic mirror, etc)
Dendybar the Mottled, Master of the North Spire, uses Jierden as a contact and Bok as his guardian against other rival wizards.
The Hosttower Arcane secretly controls all activity in the city of Luskan. Captains of the guard are only appointed with consent from the Hosttower
The Hosttower Arcane has one of the finest conjuring rooms in the North.
Morkai the Red created the conjuration room in the North Tower of the the Hosttower. Morkai the Red was once the Master of the North Spire (before Dendybar the Mottled arranged for his murder)
Trial of Succession used to choose new masters of the spire (when previous masters are dead or no longer capable)
Dendybar is scared that Drizzt wants to bring the Crystal Shard to the Drow and start an uprising of Drow against the surface.
Bok, a flesh golem made by Dendybar the Mottled


The Crags
Wild and orc filled
A narrow stretch of broken mounds and rolling hills.
Uthgardt ancestor mound in the Crags
3 days ride can cross the Crags.

Sky Pony Tribe
Uthgardt barbarians, warriors paint their cheeks white, single braid in their hair, worship Tempus and Uthgar. Carrying weapons near the ancestor mound is punishable by death.
Valric “High Eye”, shaman of the Sky Ponies. Wears an eye patch with a large green gemstones sewn into it.
Jerek Wolfslayer, chief of the Sky Ponies
Torlin son of Jerek, largest and strongest warrior, never before defeated, slain by being transformed into the Sky Pony by Valric
Pegasus is the sacred totem of the Sky Ponies
Shaman can bestow part of the spirit totem to their warriors. The spirit totem animal itself can also possess a warrior, morphing him into a half human, half animal hybrid.


Longsaddle
Home of the Harpells
Protected by Longriders that patrol the roads in groups of 5 mounted men.
Ivy mansion resides just north of the town on a hill, it is the home of the Harpells and is comprised of three buildings on a hillock. Two are farm buildings (one houses experimental animals), the third is a building full of sharp angles and dozens of spires and windows everywhere (the great house), filled with scrying rooms, conjuring rooms, alchemy rooms, meditation chambers.
A force barrier protects the entire outer edge of Ivy Mansion. Roads and fences are painted onto the wall to look real. Gaps exist in the wall with illusory fences in place.
All animals entering Ivy Mansion are shrunk to the size of cats.
Regweld Harpell, fat wizard with some bad luck in magical experiments (has made him grumpy and unhelpful)
Harkle Harpell – contact with Sydney in the Hosttower Arcane.
Chardin Harpell, incredibly old, once a great wizard, he made the stream of Ivy Mansion flow up the hill. For 20 years he has been obsessed with the invisibility field under the bridge (everything under the bridge is invisible except to things under the bridge and vice versa – may be a tear in reality).
To get to the Ivy Mansion you must pass under the bridge (reverse gravity field) that crosses the stream flowing up the hill.
DelRoy Harpell, eldest Harpell in Longsaddle at the moment. Former adventurer. Body is failing.
Matherly Harpell, accidentally turned himself into a stone statue when mixing potions
Bidderdoo Harpell, second cousing to Harkle Harpell, turned himself into a dog while mixing potions.
To leave Ivy Mansion one must pass over the bridge that crosses the stream flowing up the hill.
The Fuzzy Quarterstaff, the visitors inn at Ivy mansion, a scrying gemstone on each table is used to order food and drinks, magical prestidigitation provides entertainment, floating forcefields deliver drinks and food to the table. Interesting patrons are allowed to stay for free if they provide information, tales, riddles, etc.


Mithril Hall
Known as “the mine where silver rivers run”
Founded after Citadel Adbar (which was old when Mithril Hall was settled)
The Hall of Dumathoin, a large decorated chamber used to display the greatest works of smithing art to future generations of Clan Battlehammer.
Less than 3 generations of dwarves ever lived in Mithril Hall
Rarely did they let anyone visit Mithril Hall. The dwarves emerged in the dark of night via a complicated series of tunnels and a secret and intricate chain of dwarven agents to bring goods to market.
Settlestone was used as part of the secret trail to bring Mithril goods to market.
King Garumn – King of Mithril Hall, Bruenor’s grandfather, died fighting Duergar as the last of Clan Battlehammer escaped.
King Elmor – King of Settlestone in the time of King Garumn
Settlestone – known as Dwarvendarrow to the dwarves. Lay north of Nesme and the Evermoors on the southernmost peak of the southernmost spur of the Spine of the World. Abandoned for more than 100 years. Constructed of great slabs of stone laid to form dwellings.
Mithril Hall lies in Keepers Dale, a valley situated between several mountains. Can be accessed only by carved steps running down the side of a cliff.
Keepers Dale entrance guarded by huge stone monoliths, they were ancient even before the dwarves ever founded Mithril Hall. A secret door in the mountain side allows entry into Mithril Hall, a password must be spoken to open the door, the password expires after a time, striking the door with a magical weapon will also open the door.
Mithril Hall abandoned around 200 years ago.
Duergar fought the dwarves of Mithril Hall. A great battle fought at the entrance to Mithril Hall between the Duergar and the fleeing Clan Battlehammer. King Garumn and Bangor Battlehammer fell covering the retreat, the Duergar did not return to loot the dead (Garumn laid a curse upon the place/Duergar)
Bangor, Bruenor’s father, died fighting Duergar as the last of Clan Battlehammer escaped
Bruenor – the name of a hero of Clan Battlehammer (founder perhaps???) King Garumn died bearing the weapons and armour of Bruenor (magic relics???), mithril armour, a golden shield (deflects magic), a mithril axe, a jewelled mithril helmet (the crown of the king of Mithril Hall).
Bruenor claims the title of 8th King of Mithril Hall.
The top level of Mithril Hall was trapped and contained habitable chambers for King Elmor and the dwarves from Settlestone when they came to collect works for market.
Shadows (the monster) haunt the halls of Mithril Hall. Shadows used to ally with the drow of Menzoberranzan.
Centre of the top level is a series of 10 rooms with 10 doors, each door can be bolted from the other side to prevent exit. The centre room has a trapdoor leading to a cubby hole for resting.
Garumn’s Gorge (now Shimmergloom’s Run), lies beyond the Entrance Hall and the habitable areas and the defensive alcove, a one way exit from Mithril Hall lies at the end of the Gorge over the bridge, as well as stairs leading further down into the mines.
The Halls of Gathering, a meeting place where the dwarves of Clan Battlehammer would assemble to meet visitors or hear the words of King Garumn. On the top level, before Garumn’s Gorge. The Halls of Gathering had many concealed passages to the lower levels.
The Hall of Dumathoin on the top level, accessed from the Halls of Gathering. Holds all the great crafting works of the dwarves as well as any gifts from friends of the dwarves. The metal doors are magically sealed to only allow those of Clan Battlehammer entry and it is guarded by a hundred or more traps. The walls had been breached and the treasures despoiled by the duergar.
Taulmaril the Heartseeker, a bow crafted by Lady Anariel “Sister of Faerun”, a longbow (of elven make???), undamaged by 200 years (magic???). The quiver replenishes arrows when used, the bow can fire arrows into solid stone (fire damage???)
The Undercity of Mithril Hall. Lies atop the mines, with one side of the wide gorge carved to hold huge steps leading right down to the gorge bottom, with rows of doors (and dwellings) carved into the gorge-side.
At the bottom of the gorge lies the central forges of Mithril Hall, hot enough to melt mithril ore from the stone.


Evermoors
Known as the Trollmoors
Everyone salutes the bravery of Nesme for keeping the trade route along the Surbrin open.
Prone to violent weather and storms (lots of rain and lightning) rolling down from the Spine of the World.
Riders of Nesme venture into the Evermoors each spring and light long lines of fires to keep the monsters away from the borders of the town.
Huge acid spitting worm, decades old, sleeps in the riverbed beside the moors.


Griffon Tribe
Uthgardt barbarians
Worship at Shining White ancestor mound

Other Lore
King Harbromm and the dwarves of Citadel Adbar went looking for Mithril Hall (west of Silverymoon) a few years ago, but came back convinced it was lost or destroyed.
Old Night and the Heralds Holdfast has not entertained visitors (except for Alustriel and a few select scholars) for decades
Bausin saumine, arcane words for to open doors

Silverymoon
Inn of Wayward Sages, near the centre of the city.
Mizzen, wizard of the Second School of Knowledge
Gavin, one of the Knights of Silver
Potion of memory recall, often used by elves

Heralds Holdfast
A squat stone tower in a small dell against a steep hill. The tower appears ruined
Old Night, an ancient looking man with skin like wooden (his face had not hollowed)
The Chamber of Man, the largest chamber in Heralds Holdfast (except for the library), filled with tapestries and weapons and armour from the ancient history of the kingdoms of humans.
Contains the greatest library in the North.
Book of Mithril Hall written in High Dwarven (a script nearly lost in the Realms today)
The Chamber of Dwarves
Magical wards prevent people from approaching (were they lowered to allow Drizzt and companions through, do they only affect evil people, did Drizzt carry a key to the wards???)

Duergar
Serve Shimmergloom
Helped slaughter the dwarves of Mithril Hall
Live in the mines (ignoring the Top level)
Clan Bukbukken
Mucknuggle, duergar of Clan Bukbukken

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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
5279 Posts

Posted - 28 Jun 2020 :  15:03:42  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Getting really tired of the fight scenes now. The monster has an attack and nearly kills the party, then they all attack it at once with renewed vigour and it just sits there and gets pummeled to death. The dragon, the worm, Bok (although it was a stupid golem so thats allowed).



One thing that bothered me about Mithril Hall's history. Its supposed to be an accident that the dwarves stumbled upon the dragon by digging too deep and presumably discovering a rift to the Plane of Shadow. Shimmergloom then forces his way through and slaughters 9/10s of the dwarves of Mithril Hall and the Duergar finish off the rest.

The issue is that at the start it states that Shimmergloom played his part in the fall of Mithril Hall, killing the bulk of Mithril Hall's army for his allies. Now presumably the Duergar are his allies, but that is not true because they are actually Shimmergloom's servants. But the Duergar did kill the rest of the dwarves in the western end of the top level (where Shimmergloom couldnt fit), so at what point where they subordinate to Shimmergloom.


I'm wondering if the fall of Mithril Hall was not actually orchestrated by some other power and these are the unnamed allies of Shimmergloom. Shimmergloom certainly rampaged through the lower levels of Mithril Hall and slew most of the dwarves, but did the duergar just happen to be there at that moment in time, or were they sent there at that exact time to finish off the dwarves Shimmergloom could not reach.

I'm initially thinking the drow of Menzoberranzan were the unnamed third party. It is implied in Crystal Shard that the drow were working with Errtu to destroy a svirfneblin community (presumably Blingdenstone) and so perhaps the Drow have been working with other powers to try and destabilise dwarven powers in the Northdark so that they can dominate.
The drow ally with Shimmergloom (who is apparently a powerful ruler of sorts in a region of the Shadow Plane) who dwells in the shadowy analogue of the mines of Mithril Hall. They send duergar mercenaries to breach the dwarven mines and allow Shimmergloom in. So when Shimmergloom is freed the duergar are already there and he enslaves them (they probably werent aware of what was to happen, they were just exploiting a lower entry into the fabled mithril mines) and then uses these duergar to finish the dwarves he can't get.


That way Mithril Hall and Blingdenstone are linked not just by Drizzt but by the drow of Menzoberranzan that are trying to destroy these powerful allied communities (i wouldnt be surprised if they were involved in the fall of Citadel Felbarr as well somehow).

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TheIriaeban
Senior Scribe

USA
462 Posts

Posted - 28 Jun 2020 :  17:31:14  Show Profile Send TheIriaeban a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Or, it could be another group trying to counter the moves of Menzobarranzan. I am not that familar with post-2E drow events but I do seem to remember that there was a fight between Menzoberranzan and another drow city. Maybe this was the first move of their plan and Bruenor reclaiming the Halls threw a wrench into that group's plans?

Edit: Fixed horrible grammar. I obviously need more caffeine.

"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."

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Edited by - TheIriaeban on 28 Jun 2020 17:34:29
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