Candlekeep Forum
Candlekeep Forum
Home | Profile | Register | Active Topics | Active Polls | Members | Private Messages | Search | FAQ
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

 All Forums
 Realmslore
 Sages of Realmslore
 Novel Lore
 New Topic  New Poll New Poll
 Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Previous Page | Next Page
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic
Page: of 17

Thojan Ralwens
Seeker

Belgium
29 Posts

Posted - 03 Sep 2020 :  10:34:31  Show Profile Send Thojan Ralwens a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Delicious, delicious work so far. Thank you again. :)
Go to Top of Page

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
5279 Posts

Posted - 08 Sep 2020 :  12:30:41  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The Canticle (1361 DR)

Aballister Bonaduce
Aballister was powerful in 1358 DR during the ToT but directionless until Talona appeared to him [prologue]
Druzil the imp, his familiar, sent by Talona with a recipe for the Chaos Curse. Toothy smile, long potty teeth.[prologue, 2]
Has a ring of protection against cold [prologue]
Has a mirror of scrying that will also transport him to far flung places of the realms (like the Great Glacier [prologue,5]
Aballister is searching the Great Glacier (travels by magic) for the last ingredient for the Chaos Curse (Yote)[prologue]
Has killed 100 men in his quest to gather the ingredients for the Chaos Curse. Has aged with every stage of his quest, inflicting pain on himself whenever he failed. Is obsessed with the Chaos Curse [prologue].
Talona instructed Aballister (how, through dreams, a random old hag appeared) to summon Druzil the imp, who would give him a recipe for entropy.[2]
Uses a golden, everburning brazier on a tripod in his room. This is his gate to the lower planes (through which he summoned Druzil). Creates an interlunar gate when certain powders throne into the brazier.[2]
Once handsome, now hollow and worn out after his 2 year quest. Bony fingers, hawkish nose, thinning hair.[2,5]
Allowed Barjin to rise to power in Castle Trinity, needs his support and finances to hold Castle Trinity together (internal or external strife recently???) and to finance the creation of the Chaos Curse [2]
Once studied at the Edificant Library but was asked to leave because of his fascination with the lower planes and his inability to distinguish between good and evil.[5]
Was at the Edificant Library 20 years ago, intelligent, always experimenting (often called a Gondsman by Avery). Was sent away and returned only once to deliver his son to the library.[9]

Druzil
Former master was another wizard (a century ago).[2]
Discovered the ancient recipe for the Chaos Curse in an obscure manuscript. He kept it secret from his former master.[2]
Smarter than most imps, and most humans.[2]
All other members of Castle Trinity think Druzil is a statue, he stands still whenever they enter Aballister’s chambers.[2]
Can use telepathy, plane shift, suggestion.[4]

Chaos Cure
Yote (grey brown mushroom from the Great Glacier region.[prologue]
Eyes of an umber hulk.[2]
Blood of a druid.[2]
Pentads of a displacer beast.[2]
Should not be imbibed, the consequences are too grave. Combined with the smoke of an Eversmoking Bottle to release its effects “safely”.[2]
Those affected lose all inhibitions and follow their desires without compunction.[2]

Other Lore
Arcite, Newander, Cleo, initiate druids, rarely travel to the Edificant Library unless they discover a rare tome or a new recipe for potions. Last time these 3 visited Edificant Library was 14 years ago with a powerful druid named Shannon (she died peacefully several years ago.[1]
Cacasa nut, available at the Edificant Library (grows in Erlkazar or nearby???)[1]
Artefact museums of Caliport.[1]
Oil of impact, made from hill giant fingernails and crushed oxen horn.[1]
Most Fatal Horror is a title referring to the highest ranking and most devout priests of Talona.[2]
Priests of Talona, usually undergo grotesque tattoos and scarification.[2]
Clerics of Oghma fancy themselves as wrestlers.[3]
Ribotan monks not celibate.[3]
Priests of the Edificant library not celibate.[3]
Stone chuck, an ancient and archaic halfling weapon from southern Luiren, a crystal yoyo.[3]
Talona’s symbol, a triangle with 3 teardrops inside it.[4]
Edificant Library symbol for Talons is a triangle with a trident inside and each prong tipped by teardrop shaped bottles.[4]
Carradoon, human settlement, near Impresk Lake on the southeastern edge of the Snowflake Mountains.[4]
Grandmaster Penpahg D’ahn of the Ribotan monks of Ashanath, died 500 years ago. Studied fighting and concentration techniques.[5]
Arcite takes the form of a bear, Cleo takes the form of a tortoise.[9]
Priest of Ilmater engage in self flagellation as a minor ritual [11]
Drow sleep poison becomes useless when exposed to sunlight [12]
the renown housekeeping skeletons of Maid Land [13]
Ghouls are attracted to the raising of corpses, especially undead [14]

Great Glacier
Taer, white, primitive, humanoid, carry crude spears, gather in large groups [prologue]
Yote (a grey, brown mushroom) can only be found on the Great Glacier, growing in mountain caves (often inhabited by taer) [prologue]

Cadderly
21 years old, average height and build, more muscular than most priests, grey eyes, curly brown locks.
Wears a tan-white tunic and trousers (robes of a priest of Deneir). Wears a light blue silken cape, a blue wide brimmed hat banded in red (with plume on the right hand side). Porcelain and gold pendant in the centre of the band depicting a candle burning above an eye (symbol of Deneir) [1]
Priest of one of the sects of the Edificant Library [1]
Has a silver handled walking stick with the handle sculpted into a ram’s head.[1]
Mother died when he was 5 years old, father was too busy and neglected the child.[1]
Eidetic memory [1]
Recently inscribed a spellbook from memory for a wizard (his original spellbook was inscribe by Cadderly and he lost it in a fire.[1]
Low ranking priest.[1]
Impulsive, impatient.[1]
Is making a replica of a drow hand crossbow with darts covered in Oil of Impact.[3]

Newander
Bearded, gentle features, thick blonde shoulder length hair [1]
Druid, follows Silvanus.[1]
35+ years old
Cannot shapechange yet.[9]
Slain by Barjin [15]

Edificant Library
High in the Snowflake Mountains.[1]
Rarely take children before the age of ten.[1]
Thobicus, current Dean of the Edificant Library, has been Dean for at least 16 years (allowed Cadderly into the Edificant Library.[1]
Stood for 600 years and never been closed to scholars (except perhaps evil ones)[1]
Ivy veiled stone. Huge, a self contained town, secluded in the Snowflake Mountains, 400 ft across, more than 200 ft high. It has 4 aboveground levels (how many below ground).[1]
Rumours of miles of storage tunnels and catacombs.[1]
Has survived orc attacks, giant boulders, and brutal mountain winters.[1]
Is open to all as long as they do not use knowledge for baneful purposes. [1]
Has alchemy and herbalist shops, a small topiary garden. Well manicured grounds.[1]
Dedicated to Deneir and Oghma [1]
A place for study, poetry reading, painting, sculpting, and discussion.[1]
Recently recovered treatise on woodland mosses. Druids have been invited to study it.[1]
Vicero Belago, alchemist in the Edificant Library.[1]
Histra, priestess of Sune, visiting the Edificant Library, housed in the southern wing on the third floor. 41 years old, alluring, wears a crimson habit cut to show her curves.[1]
Headmaster Avery Scheil, rotund, red faced.[1]
Kierkan Rufo, 22 years old, toothy smile, matted black hair. Cadderly’s friend and rival. Likes Danica. Latest game involves getting each other into trouble[1]
Holds many scrolls written by Grandmaster Penpahg D’Ahn[3]
Severl headmasters.[2,3]
Headmaster Penelope, knows a lot about Drow, prizes here collection of art above all else, has hazel eyes.[3,6]
Brother Chaunticleer, perfect soprano voice, leads prayer song (canticles). Likes fishing. Among the most devout priests of Deneir, his job was leading the midday canticle.[3,8]
Warded so that uninvited people cannot enter by any known entrance, except for an ancient tunnel into the catacombs below the wine cellar.[5]
Mullivy, groundskeeper, dirty, stubbly face wrinkled sun-browned skin. Been groundskeeper for 4 decades.[5]
The catacombs are the original structure of the Edificant Library (it has been expanded a lot since then). The Edificant Library was originally built underground (easier to defend). A medium sized chamber in the catacombs was once the original library room.[5] Original builders were orderly and designed the catacombs and tunnels well with layered stonework (for defence).[7]
Catacombs are filled with jewelled casks and sarcophagi.[5]
The Order of Deneir.
4th floor, normally reserved for novices of the host sects (Order of Deneir, etc), servants, and for storage. Visiting druids like to be placed here as well.[9]
Priests of Ilmater at the Edificant Library, only visiting [11,16]
Half goblin servant died several years ago [12]
All priests at the library are required to train with a weapon.[12]
A small mining town once existed a few short miles (less than 10???) from the Edificant Library (now abandoned or destroyed???)[13]
The Edificant Library has been overrun twice in its history, both times the priests retreated to the cellars and held out (the heavy oaken cellar doors stopped the goblins getting in).[13]
Main doors blessed and heavily warded against undead.[14]
A year quest, a year long period of study, an honour usually given only to the top ranking priests of Deneir (usually only the high priests)[16]

Danica Maupoissant
Danica, 5 ft tall, brown eyes, shoulder length strawberry blonde hair.[3]
Owns a pair of daggers with crystal blades, one has a golden tiger’s head hilt, the other has a silver dragon hilt. Both are enchanted to make them as strong as steel.[3]
Raised in Westgate by Master Thrkel since she was 13 and her parents died. The daggers were a gift from Master Turkel.[3]
Her father Pavel, small, grey eyes, hair white at the temples. was reputedly the finest wagon maker in Westgate, originally from far eastern lands (possibly Tabot) and maybe related to Turkel Bastan. Her parents were assassinated by the Night Masks ,hired by rival wagon makers jealous of Pavel’s skills. [3,13]
Mother also called Danica, raven black hair, looked like Danica. [13]
Apprenticed aged 12 to Turkel Bastan, 80 years old at least, a potter in Westgate from the far off eastern land of Tabot. Also a Ribotan monk, a disciple of Grandmaster Penpahg D’Ahn. He trained Danica to be a monk and achieve harmony of soul and body for 6 years before declaring he could teach her no more.[3,13]
Does not trust Kierkan Rufo.

Trinity Castle
At the northeastern edge of the Snowflake Mountains, built atop an unnatural mountain spur.[2]
A dozen separate tunnels lead under the castle, and to death (trapped).[2]
A fortress for an evil brotherhood obsessed with power.[2]
For many years has desired to conquer the Shilmista Forest and the nearby settlement of Carradoon.[2]
Barjin, Most Debilitating Horror (a lesser title than Most Fatal Horror), the clerical leader of Castle Trinity, and his priests. Barjin and his priests had been at Castle Trinity for only a year. Travelled from Damara after Paladin King banished his deity (Orcus???). Claims to have encountered Talona’s avatar and she directed him to Castle Trinity. Commanded armies across the plains of Vaasa[2,15]
Barjin brought many treasures with him (artefacts of old Damara???), was welcomed by the triumvirate. Is charismatic, frowns upon worship of Talona, has not undergone scarification like many priests. Has risen to leadership of the castle clerics despite his beliefs. Lost his army, his prestige, and several magic items in his flight from Damara.[2]
Ragnor, orc faced, ogrillon, and his brutish warriors.[2]
Aballister commands 2 other wizards.[2]
Aballister, Barjin, and Ragnor make up the triumvirate that rules Castle Trinity.[2]
Haverly, young fighter, arrogant, ambitious, desires Ragnor’s position.[2]
Dorigen, female wizard, darting amber eyes, long greying black hair always unbrushed, middle aged, thin, drawn.[2,9]
Men, orcs, and a few giants serve as fighters at Castle Trinity.[2]
Barjin served another master (Witch King) in Damara as a wizard, lead an army and had many exploits in Narfell.[4]
Barjin claimed 3rd priest title within a month of arrival in Castle Trinity. Within several months he was the head priest (killed the others???)[4]
Barjin does not believe in Talona and lied about meeting her avatar during ToT.[4]
The Screaming Maiden, a magical mace owned by Barjin, it obsidian head takes the form of a pretty girl or a fanged maw opening wide (switching between the two). Forged in the lower planes (Abyss, Baator, Tarterus), hungers for blood. Terrible power. The fanged maw opens and sprouts venomous spikes when it strikes a foe. Has enchanted, purple silken robes as strong as armour. The Screaming Maiden is sentient, capable of biting at foes of its own volition, can emit a cone of frost[4,5,15]
Barjin owns a gold brazier and tripod like Aballister’s, a gem encrusted bowl of beaten platinum, a fist sized black sapphire (a necromancer’s stone used to contact and summon the dead), and an urn containing the ashes and spirit of a long dead Prince Khalif, he discovered the ashes of Prince Khalif among some ancient ruins when he was an apprentice to a long dead wizard way before his time in Vaasa. (how many of these treasures are stolen from Damara???).[4,5]
Barjin and his priests now revere the Chaos Curse elixir as if it were a high priest.[4]
A few weeks earlier a conspiracy had been discovered in Castle Trinity. Barjin persuaded the traitor to give up his co conspirators, and then bashed his skull in. (who is trying to infiltrate Castle Trinity???)[4]
Creating the Chaos Curse has depleted Castle Trinity’s resources.[4]
Ragnor joined Castle Trinity 5 years ago after the elves of Shilmista defeated his tribe and drove the refugees far from the wood.[4]

Ivan and Pikel Bouldershoulder
Dwarf brothers, yellow beards.[3]
Pikel is several years older than Ivan, dyes his beard and braids it into his hair so it hangs over his shoulder and down his back.[3]
Pikel likes druids, wears sandals (a gift from Newander).[3]
Pikel is the cook at the Edificant Library.[3]
Originally hail from the Galena Mountains.[3]
Had been at the Edificant Library for over a decade.
Gave up adventuring long ago, have armour dusty from decades of idleness. Ivan wields an axe, Pikel a four foot long black club [11,12]

Shilmista
Elf prince Elbereth, skilled warrior and archer, owns a finely crafted sword. [Epilogue]
Elves of Shilmista are not numerous, their magic is on the wane.[Epilogue]
Elves fought a scouting party of trained and armoured bugbears.[Epilogue]

Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions Candlekeep Archive
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 1
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 2
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 3
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 4
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 5
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 6
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 7
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 8
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 9

Alternate Realms Site
Go to Top of Page

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
5279 Posts

Posted - 08 Sep 2020 :  12:33:09  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Canticle took a while to get through, and i can't be certain i got the chapter numbers correct because my copy didnt have a table of contents or any chapter numbers.

Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions Candlekeep Archive
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 1
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 2
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 3
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 4
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 5
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 6
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 7
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 8
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 9

Alternate Realms Site
Go to Top of Page

cpthero2
Master of Realmslore

USA
1363 Posts

Posted - 13 Sep 2020 :  03:13:52  Show Profile  Visit cpthero2's Homepage Send cpthero2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Great Reader Dallison,

First of all: thank you for your endeavors in this regard!

I will make a humble request to tear into Tymora's Luck with great zeal! ;)

Best regards,



Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring
Go to Top of Page

PattPlays
Learned Scribe

162 Posts

Posted - 13 Sep 2020 :  04:08:07  Show Profile  Visit PattPlays's Homepage Send PattPlays a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison

Canticle took a while to get through, and i can't be certain i got the chapter numbers correct because my copy didnt have a table of contents or any chapter numbers.


My heart.... my heart bleeds for that, damn. That sounds so painfull..

:The world's greatest OOTA fan/critic: :"Powder kegs within powder kegs!": :Meta-Dimensional Cheese: :Why is the Wand of Orcus just back?: :We still don't know the nature of Souls and the Positive Energy Plane: :PC on profile, Aldritch Elpyptrat Maxinfield: :Helljumpers, Bungie.net: :Rock Hard Gladiator, RIP Fluidanim, RIP Pluto: :IRC lives:


https://thisisstorytelling.wordpress.com

T_P_T
Go to Top of Page

cpthero2
Master of Realmslore

USA
1363 Posts

Posted - 13 Sep 2020 :  04:52:05  Show Profile  Visit cpthero2's Homepage Send cpthero2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Learned Scribe PattyPlays,

I feel that for sure. The Canticle was indeed difficult to get through; however, once through it, you realize the point of that novel: to set up, in such a perfect manner, the remaining four books in that epic quintet. I loved that quintet so very much by the end! :)

Best regards,



Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring
Go to Top of Page

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
5279 Posts

Posted - 13 Sep 2020 :  11:01:08  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm currently reading Red Magic which is next in publication order. Not bad so far, no gods doing anything which is also great.

No realmslore surprises yet. Maligor irks me a bit, his claim to be a master strategist and then doing a fairly simple feint attack is not all that genius but I suppose Red Wizards are as arrogant as they are ambitious.

Asp the Spirit Naga is also bothering me I wasnt aware that they had arms, and she has 2.

Tymoras Luck Is a long way away in the publication order list (about 8 RAS novels away). I cant say I'm looking forward to it, I get the feeling that things start to get a bit god stupid after the cyric stuff and his trial.


Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions Candlekeep Archive
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 1
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 2
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 3
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 4
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 5
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 6
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 7
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 8
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 9

Alternate Realms Site
Go to Top of Page

Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
34002 Posts

Posted - 13 Sep 2020 :  16:49:01  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison

I'm currently reading Red Magic which is next in publication order. Not bad so far, no gods doing anything which is also great.

No realmslore surprises yet. Maligor irks me a bit, his claim to be a master strategist and then doing a fairly simple feint attack is not all that genius but I suppose Red Wizards are as arrogant as they are ambitious.

Asp the Spirit Naga is also bothering me I wasnt aware that they had arms, and she has 2.

Tymoras Luck Is a long way away in the publication order list (about 8 RAS novels away). I cant say I'm looking forward to it, I get the feeling that things start to get a bit god stupid after the cyric stuff and his trial.





Finder's Bane and Tymora's Luck are really good stories -- but you'll hate them, because the gods are very prominent, and you've already proven that having a god do anything at all ruins a story for you.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Editor and scribe for The Candlekeep Compendium

I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
Go to Top of Page

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
5279 Posts

Posted - 13 Sep 2020 :  17:03:12  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I like the god mentions, such as the Shards being servants of Selune that guard her shrines and temples. Loviatar being worshipped in Thay, a symbol of Malar tattooed on Maligor's head, holy relics of Sune stolen by Zhents of Darkhold. The whole Parched Sea novel is great for immersion, so is Elfsong, and Spellfire, they have mentions of gods but no gods turn up and behave stupidly.


Then we have the scene in Song of the Saurials where Finder goes on a 20 page jaunt through some outer planes (it was so lame i didnt even register which ones he travelled through), turning up in the Abyss in Moander's home plane and basically one shot kills the god. The whole scene adds nothing to the realms (it doesnt even take place on the realms). It adds very little to the outer planes that Finder passes through. It makes the rest of the story seem hokey and the whole scene feels very forced. Darkwell is similarly forced with the end fight scene between Tristran and Bhaal (where he endlessly tries to step on Tristram, just uber lightning bolt him for f***sake), or the last Moonshae novel with the fight where the giant god turns up. Thus far any novel where a god is involved has been of much poorer quality than the non god one, and from a lore point of view there is on average 4 to 10 times more lore in the non god novels.

Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions Candlekeep Archive
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 1
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 2
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 3
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 4
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 5
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 6
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 7
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 8
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 9

Alternate Realms Site
Go to Top of Page

CorellonsDevout
Great Reader

USA
2534 Posts

Posted - 13 Sep 2020 :  20:49:55  Show Profile Send CorellonsDevout a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I feel like that is partly your own bias, since you dislike the gods so much, you're going to harshly judge any story involving them. Also, some of the stories involving gods contain quite a bit of lore.

Sweet water and light laughter
Go to Top of Page

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
5279 Posts

Posted - 13 Sep 2020 :  21:24:52  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Possibly true, I enjoyed the first book of the avatar series despite it being god centric.

Did you prefer curse of the azure bonds, wyverns spur or song of the saurials and which ending did you prefer and why.


Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions Candlekeep Archive
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 1
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 2
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 3
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 4
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 5
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 6
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 7
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 8
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 9

Alternate Realms Site
Go to Top of Page

CorellonsDevout
Great Reader

USA
2534 Posts

Posted - 13 Sep 2020 :  21:41:40  Show Profile Send CorellonsDevout a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hmm, good question. Wyvern's Spur was a fun story. The saurials took a bit for me to get used to, though I liked Dragonbait as a character. It's been a while since I read them (in fact I tried to refresh my memory when you asked lol). I had completely forgotten about Charon, for example. I liked the epic-ness of Song of the Saurials, though I can't say I was too happy about what happened with a certain mage; it least Moander didn't get him.


Sweet water and light laughter

Edited by - CorellonsDevout on 13 Sep 2020 21:56:02
Go to Top of Page

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
5279 Posts

Posted - 13 Sep 2020 :  21:48:16  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Most people seem to say wyverns spur, it is the only book of the series without direct divine intervention and it has the best plot and character development in the series (and in my opinion the larger amount of quality realmslore) and the novels are all written by the same author (important to make a comparison) and it's the middle novel so it's not better because the author had more practice.

People might like the god stuff, but that doesnt mean the god stuff is good for the setting.

Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions Candlekeep Archive
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 1
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 2
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 3
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 4
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 5
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 6
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 7
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 8
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 9

Alternate Realms Site
Go to Top of Page

CorellonsDevout
Great Reader

USA
2534 Posts

Posted - 13 Sep 2020 :  22:00:42  Show Profile Send CorellonsDevout a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Doesn't mean they're bad for it, either. They're a big part of the setting, always have been. Wyvern's Spur was a fun read, but you can have both; books that are gods-centric and books that aren't. Not all the books are going to be stellar writing, anyway, regardless of whether they involve deities or not (I find this particularly true for some of the older novels). Personally, I very much enjoy books involving gods, so a lot of this is a matter of opinion. You hate the gods, so you're going to be more likely to dislike books that involve them. Are they always handled well? No, but that doesn't mean they should be removed from every single plot or story. Elaine and Kemp did a good job with them, imho.

Sweet water and light laughter

Edited by - CorellonsDevout on 13 Sep 2020 22:01:50
Go to Top of Page

cpthero2
Master of Realmslore

USA
1363 Posts

Posted - 13 Sep 2020 :  22:27:39  Show Profile  Visit cpthero2's Homepage Send cpthero2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Great Reader Dallison,

I really liked that novel. It was the first novel that really exposed Thay to me, and just how awful that nation is with its culture, etc. Of course, it also made it a really great bad guy nation for adventures/campaigns, etc.

I think your evaluation of Maligor is spot on of course, predicated on the ego of the Red Wizards. It is interesting to see the ego displayed by Maligor in that novel too, because it is just four years after the Salamander Wars. Then again, Red Magic was written in 1991 and the Salamander Wars are first referenced in the Unapproachable East. Though, I don't think the ego of Maligor would have changed after the Salamander Wars. There was still a benefit to it all for Thay, it just took Szass Tam and others to square it away so it didn't get insane for Thay.

I also get your issue with deities being overly involved in the Realms. I really think though that Tymora's Luck was perfect for the kind of involvement by the deities that was presented in the novel.

Best regards,




Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring
Go to Top of Page

cpthero2
Master of Realmslore

USA
1363 Posts

Posted - 13 Sep 2020 :  22:30:07  Show Profile  Visit cpthero2's Homepage Send cpthero2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Master Rupert,

I agree as to the quality of those two novels. I really enjoyed Finder's Bane as well. I absolutely loved how the adventure made its way to Sigil in that novel. Very cool read for me.

Best regards,



Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring
Go to Top of Page

CorellonsDevout
Great Reader

USA
2534 Posts

Posted - 13 Sep 2020 :  22:40:38  Show Profile Send CorellonsDevout a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yeah, I liked the romp (if you will) through the planes and the stop in Sigil. Sometimes deities getting involved is part of the story, and for me, that's part of the fun. I feel like we can have and enjoy both types of novels (those that have deity involvement and those that are smaller in scale and more contained, like Wyvern's Spur, or the 4e Waterdeep novels, and ones that are in between. Ie, may have something involving deities, like a scene, but isn't centered on them. We can have and enjoy them all).

Sweet water and light laughter

Edited by - CorellonsDevout on 13 Sep 2020 22:43:53
Go to Top of Page

cpthero2
Master of Realmslore

USA
1363 Posts

Posted - 13 Sep 2020 :  22:42:36  Show Profile  Visit cpthero2's Homepage Send cpthero2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Great Reader CorellonsDevout,

I kind of find myself in the middle between Great Reader Dallison and yourself. I agree that having the gods in there is important because they are a very central aspect to the Realms; however, they really seem to be overly involved at times. It almost robs the story of some mystery when mom and dad are going to show up a lot and put the smack down. I like more deific mystery with much more limited involvement, than not. I think at that point, the few novels that would have significant deity involvement would seem much more intense.

Writing too much about the deities getting super involved just brings them down more to the level of mortals, and that steals some of the mystery and deific might from them because there is more known about them. People are always more afraid of the unknown.

Best regards,





Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring
Go to Top of Page

CorellonsDevout
Great Reader

USA
2534 Posts

Posted - 13 Sep 2020 :  22:51:59  Show Profile Send CorellonsDevout a Private Message  Reply with Quote
It can be overdone at times, yes. Part of it depends on how it's done. For example, I personally enjoyed having the gods as characters in the Avatar series, the beginning of Evermeet, and Mask's cameo in the Erevis Cale books. Those were epic, fantastic stories (imho anyway). But Mystra coming for afternoon tea? Yeah, that can be a bit much. At least with the others (even getting inside their heads), there was still some mystery.

I think you can have them as active agents and still maintain some level of mystery. And again, being an active part of the setting means they are going to have some level of involvement (some deities are known for being actively involved, others not as much). Some of this is up to the writers and how they portray the involvement, and some are better at executing that than others. So in some cases, it indeed feels cheap (literal deus ex machina), but others can still manage that "wow" factor.

Sweet water and light laughter

Edited by - CorellonsDevout on 13 Sep 2020 22:55:14
Go to Top of Page

cpthero2
Master of Realmslore

USA
1363 Posts

Posted - 13 Sep 2020 :  22:53:26  Show Profile  Visit cpthero2's Homepage Send cpthero2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Great Reader CorellonsDevout,

So which novel, in your opinion, presents the more lore, pound for pound in it?

Mine would have to be Cormyr: A Novel, off the cuff.

Best regards,



Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring
Go to Top of Page

CorellonsDevout
Great Reader

USA
2534 Posts

Posted - 13 Sep 2020 :  22:57:48  Show Profile Send CorellonsDevout a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Cormyr: A Novel would definitely be one of them. Fully agree. I would also say Evermeet: Island of Elves.

Sweet water and light laughter

Edited by - CorellonsDevout on 13 Sep 2020 23:00:12
Go to Top of Page

cpthero2
Master of Realmslore

USA
1363 Posts

Posted - 13 Sep 2020 :  23:07:16  Show Profile  Visit cpthero2's Homepage Send cpthero2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Great Reader CorellonsDevout,

Good call on Evermeet: Island of Elves.

I really think the Murder novels were really good. I loved Murder in Halruaa. They offered a lot more of the tacit cultural lore by experiencing it by reading, as opposed to an almost historical read from the two we just mentioned.

Best regards,



Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring
Go to Top of Page

ElfBane
Learned Scribe

USA
159 Posts

Posted - 14 Sep 2020 :  08:14:57  Show Profile Send ElfBane a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Having gods floating around allows you to write badly, because then you always have the "Deus ex Machina" copout.
Go to Top of Page

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
5279 Posts

Posted - 14 Sep 2020 :  08:16:57  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
My thoughts exactly, the gods promote / cause bad plots and bad writing and poor character development.

Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions Candlekeep Archive
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 1
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 2
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 3
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 4
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 5
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 6
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 7
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 8
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 9

Alternate Realms Site
Go to Top of Page

Irennan
Great Reader

Italy
3302 Posts

Posted - 14 Sep 2020 :  08:39:00  Show Profile Send Irennan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
You can write a story *about* a deity, and give said deity an *actual* arc, and do all that without making a single narrative mistake. It could even come out as an inspiring story, but that has never happened in FR.

The thing is, as we discussed in the thread previously, making a deity directly act in a story about mortals with most of the conflict based on the classic fantasy trope "fight the bad guy" (i.e. all FR novels), is likely going to trivialize it simply because either you make the deity a "deity" (in that you dramatically limit their power) or they oscillate between instawinning, doing nothing for contrived excuses, and making the powers in the game so big that mortals are irrelevant.

The only stories that can involve divine and mortal characters at the same time are those in which the conflict and the stakes are such that the difference in fighting power matters nothing (a random example: stories about convincing people of something/to do something, and where dictating it with power is ruled out either because the deity doesn't want to becuase of how their character is, or because they can't).

The key is keeping meaningful conflict and development, and to not make the protagonists' conflict fade back (like it happens when the characters gotta do something minor while the big powers fight the real battle).

To all Facebook-using FR fans, you might be interested in checking out this page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/450517575051806/

Edited by - Irennan on 14 Sep 2020 08:40:04
Go to Top of Page
Page: of 17 Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
Previous Page | Next Page
 New Topic  New Poll New Poll
 Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Jump To:
Candlekeep Forum © 1999-2020 Candlekeep.com Go To Top Of Page
Snitz Forums 2000