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perlmugp
Seeker

USA
61 Posts

Posted - 22 May 2020 :  04:54:24  Show Profile  Visit perlmugp's Homepage Send perlmugp a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
There is an obscure street in Waterdeep which connects Presper and Shrimp Streets in the Dock Ward. In the old City System map this street is labelled Haring's Way. In Volo's Guide to Waterdeep on the map on page 205 this same street is labelled the Street of Six Casks. These are the only two references to this little street I can find. Does anyone have any other references, especially any hints as to why the name changed?

--Zoomable Map of Faerun--

ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer

USA
1745 Posts

Posted - 22 May 2020 :  19:30:52  Show Profile  Visit ericlboyd's Homepage Send ericlboyd a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Here's what Ed says ...

Sure. Out-of-game, someone used City System to cram TSR staff names onto every street and alley of Waterdeep they thought didn't have a name, but they didn't refer to my master maps, so a lot of streets they thought were unnamed had perfectly good names that were referenced elsewhere. (So in this case, the street renamed for Scott Haring already had a name, the Street of Six Casks.)
Some of those commemorate-TSR-staff names were a bit clunky/sounded 'wrong' for the setting, and with passing time some heralded staff who'd since departed (like Scott), so over time, for later products, names were taken from my originals.

In-game, here's what I long ago came up with to cover this (and cleared with Julia Martin at the time, and Kij Johnson later, so that TSR/WotC would be on the same page as I was):

Just as some noble families sold their titles for a brief period, there have been at least two brief periods where "naming rights" to a street, or several blocks of a street, were sold off by city clerks at the Palace. Usually this meant someone wealthy, who wanted to buy prestige, would give several thousands in gold to the city in return for renaming the block of a street their residence fronted on, plus a few adjacent blocks to take the renamed street to an intersection with a major street. Then they could change their address, so "Melevart Thalundavur, Mending-Cobbler-For-Hire, Slut Street" would become "Melevart Thalundavur, Exclusive Fine Footwear For The Discerning, Thalunavur Way."
This practice was stopped to dispel confusion, and most of the older names were reinstated (yes, twice...or more). So in this case, Haring's Way went away, and the Street of Six Casks returned. The "Six Casks" were six competing coopers whose businesses once fronted on this street (so they made barrels, large and small, for Waterdhavian businesses and shippers). Two family lines died out long ago, and their businesses dwindled and closed down, two were bought by rivals, one being moved elsewhere in the city (North Ward) and the other being closed down (bought in order to close it down and so put it out of business and do away with its competition), and two of the Six Casks remain in business to this day (the firms survive, having been passed down through generations of the same families of owner/operators). They are: Lithandy Fine Casks and Burnleir's Barrels, both westfront (their front doors stand on the west side of the Street of Six Casks, to the north of the dogleg), one two doors south of Presper Street and the other four doors down). These days, both cooperages concentrate on small hangkegs and ornamental-finish "show" barrels; the "heavy" work of mass-making larger casks has been moved to larger premises outside the city where staves can be cut, dried, steamed, and stored in bulk.

--
http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/
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perlmugp
Seeker

USA
61 Posts

Posted - 23 May 2020 :  02:05:06  Show Profile  Visit perlmugp's Homepage Send perlmugp a Private Message  Reply with Quote
This is great. I was expecting a shoulder shrug of an answer. The more light you shine in the dark corners the more there is to see.

--Zoomable Map of Faerun--
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
9245 Posts

Posted - 23 May 2020 :  14:41:02  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd

Here's what Ed says ...

Sure. Out-of-game, someone used City System to cram TSR staff names onto every street and alley of Waterdeep they thought didn't have a name, but they didn't refer to my master maps, so a lot of streets they thought were unnamed had perfectly good names that were referenced elsewhere. (So in this case, the street renamed for Scott Haring already had a name, the Street of Six Casks.)
Some of those commemorate-TSR-staff names were a bit clunky/sounded 'wrong' for the setting, and with passing time some heralded staff who'd since departed (like Scott), so over time, for later products, names were taken from my originals.

In-game, here's what I long ago came up with to cover this (and cleared with Julia Martin at the time, and Kij Johnson later, so that TSR/WotC would be on the same page as I was):

Just as some noble families sold their titles for a brief period, there have been at least two brief periods where "naming rights" to a street, or several blocks of a street, were sold off by city clerks at the Palace. Usually this meant someone wealthy, who wanted to buy prestige, would give several thousands in gold to the city in return for renaming the block of a street their residence fronted on, plus a few adjacent blocks to take the renamed street to an intersection with a major street. Then they could change their address, so "Melevart Thalundavur, Mending-Cobbler-For-Hire, Slut Street" would become "Melevart Thalundavur, Exclusive Fine Footwear For The Discerning, Thalunavur Way."
This practice was stopped to dispel confusion, and most of the older names were reinstated (yes, twice...or more). So in this case, Haring's Way went away, and the Street of Six Casks returned. The "Six Casks" were six competing coopers whose businesses once fronted on this street (so they made barrels, large and small, for Waterdhavian businesses and shippers). Two family lines died out long ago, and their businesses dwindled and closed down, two were bought by rivals, one being moved elsewhere in the city (North Ward) and the other being closed down (bought in order to close it down and so put it out of business and do away with its competition), and two of the Six Casks remain in business to this day (the firms survive, having been passed down through generations of the same families of owner/operators). They are: Lithandy Fine Casks and Burnleir's Barrels, both westfront (their front doors stand on the west side of the Street of Six Casks, to the north of the dogleg), one two doors south of Presper Street and the other four doors down). These days, both cooperages concentrate on small hangkegs and ornamental-finish "show" barrels; the "heavy" work of mass-making larger casks has been moved to larger premises outside the city where staves can be cut, dried, steamed, and stored in bulk.




Please tell me there are a Boyd and Schend streets somewhere on those maps then. I'm not going to dig for them, but you guys deserve it more than some Scott Haring guy I don't even recall (google fu says he wrote the original empire of the sands, but not sure what else).

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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AJA
Senior Scribe

USA
497 Posts

Posted - 23 May 2020 :  18:46:18  Show Profile Send AJA a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Please tell me there are a Boyd and Schend streets somewhere on those maps then.

You can have Schend Street as soon as you can say it five times fast. Besides, Steven is already in the Realms (depending on how you view the 'canon'-icity of web articles, of course)
quote:
Originally posted by perlmugp

This is great. I was expecting a shoulder shrug of an answer. The more light you shine in the dark corners the more there is to see.


Always shine a light in dark corners. That way you don't get eaten by a grue.


AJA
YAFRP
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