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AlexMcClay2000
Acolyte
Australia
13 Posts |
 Posted - 07 May 2020 : 15:23:00
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So I was looking into the Cloak and Dagger supplement for 2e, and I noticed that the population mentioned in Westgate was 98,000 , rising to 118,000 in summer, and then I looked at the 3e FRCS and its population 29,800. Now Cloak and Dagger is set in 1368DR-1370DR and I'm wondering why the population declined so much in a span of two years.
The same goes for Irieabor, in 1358 DR its population was around 81k, and up to 119k in summer, now in 1372 DR its population is 16k, that's a massive drop. Iriaebor's population obviously dropped due to Mark Anthony's novel Crypt of the Shadowking, but that happened in 1363 DR according to the Grand History of the Realms. So during that time, the population should have increased at least. In Volo's Guide to the Sword Coast, it mentions that its armed forces are 8k strong, so half of the population is its police force, that doesn't really make much sense.
Im just trying to understand the population decline, so if anybody can help that would mean a lot to me. Thanks!
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Alex McClay |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11690 Posts |
Posted - 07 May 2020 : 21:43:22
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| Bear this in mind.... Waterdeep was originally said to reach a little above 100k at its peak (and the 3e frcs shows it at 132,661). Similarly, Bezantur when it was originally written about was said to be upwards of 100k people (3e FRCS has it at 136,800). I think the 3e population changes were meant to try and standardize what populations would be in smaller places. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Werthead
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
170 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jun 2020 : 14:43:39
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FR population levels were all over the place in 1E and 2E, with sometimes sourcebooks in the same edition line contradicting themselves. A good example is that the Empires of the Sands (1E) has pretty huge populations for Calimshan's cities and then Empires of the Shining Sea (2E) pulled them all down pretty heavily and even stated that the earlier figures were incorrect and exaggerated. 3E then tried to give global population figures that were more realistic.
The problem is that population counts are by their nature fluid depending on what's going on in the vicinity and also what population is being counted. There's the city's population within the walls, there's areas outside the walls, there's the population within say 2 days travel who help feed the city and would be expected to retreat behind the walls in the event of a threat etc. It just gives the DM some wriggle room to speculate. One thing to remember is that x number within the city walls requires y number living outside the city walls in farms to keep the people fed, so if a city has a population of 100,000, it requires a vast area of farmland to keep the people alive, which in some corners of the Realms is more practical and realistic than others (Waterdeep has this worked out in a lot of detail, other cities not so much). |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6643 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jun 2020 : 08:34:48
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Sean K Reynolds lowered all the FR city populations in the 3E FRCS. Nothing "happened".
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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TomCosta
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
954 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2020 : 22:03:58
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| The explanation given was that the population numbers through 1e an 2E were all over the place so they tried to look globally and rejigger the numbers into something more believable given medieval times and consistent across the world. |
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cpthero2
Great Reader
USA
2285 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2020 : 00:18:28
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Tom,
Wow, this is extremely interesting. I have no idea why population never came to mind, but it just never has. Is there any canonical reference to numbers of other sentient races such as Goblins, Kobolds, etc.?
Best regards,
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Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring |
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Population decline from 2e to the 3e FRCS?
