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prototype00
Acolyte
48 Posts |
 Posted - 27 Apr 2020 : 07:58:29
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So I’m playing a Chultan character in one of my games (Dino Druid!) and I was wondering what deities the Chultans currently pay homage to? Most of the other sources on Chultan religion are 2e so they might be accurate anymore.
- Ubtao? I didn’t even see mention of him in the SCAG, I’m guessing he’s more aloof than ever if he is still around? Mezro is an undead infested ruin and that was the only place (?) that seemed to worship Ubtao as an entity anyway (Overseen by the Mazewalkers, do these guys even exist anymore?)
- Spirits? Well there were the 9 lost gods which are considered powerful animal spirits but they were captured by Acerak, so do they still garner specific worship? If not, do the Spiritlords just worship, in aggregate, the jungle/nature spirits in Chult (who are also Ubtao in a way)
- Speaking of the Jungle, do Jungle Druids pay homage to the spirits of the jungle too? Or are they more nature oriented?
And the common folk of Chult what do they look to? As I recall there was an arrangement between the gods and Ubtao that no other deity would hold sway in Chult (Thard Harr, Sseth and Eshowe nonwithstanding) is that still in force?
Many thanks for the answers from the sages of Realmslore.
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Edited by - prototype00 on 27 Apr 2020 15:37:47
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Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
Posted - 27 Apr 2020 : 17:33:24
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This is honestly one of the cases where I'd throw canon out the window and just do what's right instead, if your DM is willing.
Chult got such an offensive hackjob done on it over the last two editions that being respectful to what it represents basically requires pulling away from the recent books. This series of articles talks a lot about how it's been turned into a colonialist playground: https://pocgamer.com/2017/10/13/tomb-of-annihilation-review-part-1-chult-in-5e/ |
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Delnyn
Senior Scribe
USA
890 Posts |
Posted - 27 Apr 2020 : 18:11:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Arivia
This is honestly one of the cases where I'd throw canon out the window and just do what's right instead, if your DM is willing.
Chult got such an offensive hackjob done on it over the last two editions that being respectful to what it represents basically requires pulling away from the recent books. This series of articles talks a lot about how it's been turned into a colonialist playground: https://pocgamer.com/2017/10/13/tomb-of-annihilation-review-part-1-chult-in-5e/
So if Ubtao is gone, who is watching the gate in the Peaks of Flame to prevent Dendar from entering Toril? It would be possible to blame the no-resurrection bit on Dendar. The allegation being she was consuming souls. Maybe Kezef tired of chasing Mask and is back in the business of hunting Faithful. I also agree with the article raising the question about the loss of souls angering Kelemvor.
I would see an adventure just finding out the culprit rather than pointing out Chult at the outset. It sounds a bit too close to railroading.
You would think much like Abeir, Chult would also be a treasure trove of lore about the Dawn War lost from the rest of Faerun. After all, as a primordial who sided with the gods (Estelar) against his own kind, Ubtao would impart a unique perspective to his worshippers. |
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prototype00
Acolyte
48 Posts |
Posted - 28 Apr 2020 : 00:41:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Arivia
This is honestly one of the cases where I'd throw canon out the window and just do what's right instead, if your DM is willing.
Chult got such an offensive hackjob done on it over the last two editions that being respectful to what it represents basically requires pulling away from the recent books. This series of articles talks a lot about how it's been turned into a colonialist playground: https://pocgamer.com/2017/10/13/tomb-of-annihilation-review-part-1-chult-in-5e/
Unfortunately it’s AL, so I can’t just make up stuff willy nilly.
Hmm, I think my take on it will be:
Spirit Lords and Jungle Druids: No change, you still need people to intercede between the spirits, nature and the people. (Spiritlords facilitate People-spirits and Jungle Druids facilitate Nature-people as recorded in Canon). Apparently both groups pay homage to the lingering essence of Ubtao in the form of the spirits according to a Twitter reply by Ed, just in different ways.
Maze walkers: The disappearance of Ubtao and the holy city of Mezro (they do not believe the current replacement is Mezro, just a grim caricature) represents a Waukeen-during-the-ToT like situation for his worshippers. They probably still get their spells from somewhere (Thard Harr maybe? Filling in for his friend?), but they are a very small minority, just only holding on, looking forwards to the day the Master of Chult returns. (A very conservative group decrying the new direction of the merchant princes and new gods in Chult, maybe?)
How does that sound? |
Edited by - prototype00 on 28 Apr 2020 03:06:24 |
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TomCosta
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
954 Posts |
Posted - 28 Apr 2020 : 19:23:09
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| If it's AL, you could certainly be a jungle druid who worships Ubtao and maybe start with knowledge of several dinosaurs you can shift into. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11701 Posts |
Posted - 28 Apr 2020 : 23:36:44
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You know, with the heavy hints that have been given that Ubtao and Qotal are the same being, and also the links that exist between Parrafaire and Qotal and Ubtao (i.e. Qotal as child of Kukul <=> Parrafaire as child of Jazirian … and both Ubtao and Parrafaire are obsessed with mazes... Qotal leaves Maztica to "go east" and Ubtao shows up in Chult…. Ubtao is known as a betrayer and Qotal raped his sister Kiltzi and then goes to sleep and doesn't listen to the suffering of his mortal worshippers before leaving Maztica in shame)… I'm very much convinced that these are all the same being going by different names in different areas.
Why do I bring this up? Well, the big thing that happened in the Maztica series of novels was that at the very end, the main priest of Qotal forsakes his god and basically has himself killed so that the avatar of his god would be cast from Maztica. Given that the whole spellplague and disappearance of Ubtao was only a few years later with the spellplague, might this be somehow worked into the reason for A) Ubtao's disappearance and B) something that starts the "merging of the two worlds". |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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prototype00
Acolyte
48 Posts |
Posted - 29 Apr 2020 : 01:10:05
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
You know, with the heavy hints that have been given that Ubtao and Qotal are the same being, and also the links that exist between Parrafaire and Qotal and Ubtao (i.e. Qotal as child of Kukul <=> Parrafaire as child of Jazirian … and both Ubtao and Parrafaire are obsessed with mazes... Qotal leaves Maztica to "go east" and Ubtao shows up in Chult…. Ubtao is known as a betrayer and Qotal raped his sister Kiltzi and then goes to sleep and doesn't listen to the suffering of his mortal worshippers before leaving Maztica in shame)… I'm very much convinced that these are all the same being going by different names in different areas.
Why do I bring this up? Well, the big thing that happened in the Maztica series of novels was that at the very end, the main priest of Qotal forsakes his god and basically has himself killed so that the avatar of his god would be cast from Maztica. Given that the whole spellplague and disappearance of Ubtao was only a few years later with the spellplague, might this be somehow worked into the reason for A) Ubtao's disappearance and B) something that starts the "merging of the two worlds".
So you are saying that Maztica disappearing (and being replaced with Abeir) during the Spellplague had something to do with Ubtao-who-may-be-Qotal disappearing during the same period as well?
And hints that the "True Mezro" has come back into existence somewhere might be linked to the return of Maztica (i.e. Ubtao followed that landmass out of Faerun during the Spellplague and only recently returned?)
Hmmm... |
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prototype00
Acolyte
48 Posts |
Posted - 29 Apr 2020 : 01:13:46
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quote:
Originally posted by TomCosta
If it's AL, you could certainly be a jungle druid who worships Ubtao and maybe start with knowledge of several dinosaurs you can shift into.
I mean, purely from a flavour standpoint, sure. But if someone was wanting to be a Cleric of Ubtao in AL, they would run into the wall of "Not a listed deity anywhere and we don't know what his domains are".
Druid no issue, I agree (but I think Ed tweeted at some point that Jungle Druids also are spirit worshippers, so its not a major imposition to stick to that.)
prototype00 |
Edited by - prototype00 on 29 Apr 2020 01:14:50 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11701 Posts |
Posted - 29 Apr 2020 : 14:48:22
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quote:
Originally posted by prototype00
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
You know, with the heavy hints that have been given that Ubtao and Qotal are the same being, and also the links that exist between Parrafaire and Qotal and Ubtao (i.e. Qotal as child of Kukul <=> Parrafaire as child of Jazirian … and both Ubtao and Parrafaire are obsessed with mazes... Qotal leaves Maztica to "go east" and Ubtao shows up in Chult…. Ubtao is known as a betrayer and Qotal raped his sister Kiltzi and then goes to sleep and doesn't listen to the suffering of his mortal worshippers before leaving Maztica in shame)… I'm very much convinced that these are all the same being going by different names in different areas.
Why do I bring this up? Well, the big thing that happened in the Maztica series of novels was that at the very end, the main priest of Qotal forsakes his god and basically has himself killed so that the avatar of his god would be cast from Maztica. Given that the whole spellplague and disappearance of Ubtao was only a few years later with the spellplague, might this be somehow worked into the reason for A) Ubtao's disappearance and B) something that starts the "merging of the two worlds".
So you are saying that Maztica disappearing (and being replaced with Abeir) during the Spellplague had something to do with Ubtao-who-may-be-Qotal disappearing during the same period as well?
And hints that the "True Mezro" has come back into existence somewhere might be linked to the return of Maztica (i.e. Ubtao followed that landmass out of Faerun during the Spellplague and only recently returned?)
Hmmm...
Yep, you are following my logic. Granted, the spellplague takes almost 20 years later to kick off, but we've already seen that the "second sundering" wasn't instantaneous either, and the separation from this "bumping" of the worlds took a century. I'd have to reread the module, because I don't remember WHAT has happened with Mezro, but I wouldn't be surprised if it and its people are somehow transferred into Maztica now and THIS is how the prophecy that Qotal would return home to Maztica has come true. If they returned in the jungles of Far Payit, Qotal/Ubtao MIGHT have protected the people of Maztica from dragons by importing dinosaurs or have even TRANSFORMED dragons into sauroid creatures to defned his home. He may have even possessed some powerful dragon(s) and created inner strife amongst dragonkind. As a primordial, he would like to see dragons punished presumably. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Chultan Religion in the Present.
