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keftiu
Senior Scribe
656 Posts |
 Posted - 28 Jan 2020 : 04:01:23
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Has anyone ever ran a game in the first decade of the 4e timeline (immediately during and after the Spellplague)?
I’ve been chewing on the idea for a couple days that the fanbase could’ve handled the timeskip or the magical cataclysm, but not both, and it had me wondering about play in the final years of the 1300s. I know I saw a developer comment somewhere where they regretted focusing so much on the Spellplague given that it was a century prior to the present, and it had me wishing there was more reason to feature its immediate effects.
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4e fangirl. Here to queer up the Realms. |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4429 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2020 : 04:30:12
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| I had, using the E6 rules for 3.5 to show how limited magic got after those first tumultuous years. |
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keftiu
Senior Scribe
656 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2020 : 09:13:19
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Where is the ideal setting for such a thing?
I’m feeling torn between Ormpur and Ormpetarr, for very different reasons. |
4e fangirl. Here to queer up the Realms. |
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Delnyn
Senior Scribe
USA
890 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2020 : 14:22:44
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quote:
Originally posted by keftiu
Has anyone ever ran a game in the first decade of the 4e timeline (immediately during and after the Spellplague)?
I’ve been chewing on the idea for a couple days that the fanbase could’ve handled the timeskip or the magical cataclysm, but not both, and it had me wondering about play in the final years of the 1300s. I know I saw a developer comment somewhere where they regretted focusing so much on the Spellplague given that it was a century prior to the present, and it had me wishing there was more reason to feature its immediate effects.
In my case, the problem was definitely the timeskip. The Spellplague was no more or less annoying than other RSE such as the Time of Troubles or the Cormyr/Shadowdale/Anauroch adventure of the Weave being attacked. I could adjust from 3.x ed rules to 4ed rules just as easily (even if not as comfortably) as I could adjust from 2ed to 3.0 ed.
The timeskip, on the other hand, completely wrecked my FR campaign because I could not find a plausible way for key humans to survive in a relatively healthy condition over a century through a magical catastrophe. When writers such as Rob Salvatore and Ed himself are forced to resort to ham-fisted measures as hanging out in Iruladoon waiting for rebirth, being held by an imprisonment spell, or being stored in a magical Blue Flame item, I would hope WoTC and more importantly, Hasbro, never do another tluining timeskip.
Scribe keftiu, my 2 coppers is 4ed could have started in 1385 or even four or five years later. |
Edited by - Delnyn on 15 Mar 2020 14:25:12 |
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keftiu
Senior Scribe
656 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2020 : 17:41:34
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| I really appreciate the reply, Delnyn! |
4e fangirl. Here to queer up the Realms. |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6646 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2020 : 23:07:07
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Just to be clear when a few of us Realms grognards were let in on the time jump for 4E, what was not spelled out was the fact that the 100 years would be a blank slate and no detail provided re events in the interim. I suspect that filling in the time gap might have been the intention (there is a reference in Dragon #362 I think, which states that they will be updating GHotR periodically - the only official updates were in that issue and both from Brian James) but the "difficulties" with 4E and the decision not to have a "home campaign world" for that edition likely put paid to that. I'm pretty sure that they will never do that again, but then again, I'm also pretty sure that the types of FR products that we saw in 1/2/3E will never be done again either.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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keftiu
Senior Scribe
656 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2020 : 23:15:00
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
Just to be clear when a few of us Realms grognards were let in on the time jump for 4E, what was not spelled out was the fact that the 100 years would be a blank slate and no detail provided re events in the interim. I suspect that filling in the time gap might have been the intention (there is a reference in Dragon #362 I think, which states that they will be updating GHotR periodically - the only official updates were in that issue and both from Brian James) but the "difficulties" with 4E and the decision not to have a "home campaign world" for that edition likely put paid to that. I'm pretty sure that they will never do that again, but then again, I'm also pretty sure that the types of FR products that we saw in 1/2/3E will never be done again either.
-- George Krashos
Fertile territory for Guild projects, if you ask me! |
4e fangirl. Here to queer up the Realms. |
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cpthero2
Great Reader
USA
2285 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2020 : 23:28:45
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Master Krashos,
That is a sad thing to read there: "I'm also pretty sure that the types of FR products that we saw in 1/2/3E will never be done again either."
What in your expert opinion, makes you feel that what was seen in 1e - 3e makes it where those would never be made that way again? I would honestly love to know!
Best regards,
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Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring |
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keftiu
Senior Scribe
656 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2020 : 23:46:47
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quote:
Originally posted by cpthero2
Master Krashos,
That is a sad thing to read there: "I'm also pretty sure that the types of FR products that we saw in 1/2/3E will never be done again either."
What in your expert opinion, makes you feel that what was seen in 1e - 3e makes it where those would never be made that way again? I would honestly love to know!
Best regards,
If you don't mind a reply from me, instead: because WotC has seen D&D explode to a new height of popularity and sales with books that have minimal lore or tie to setting, in favor of fewer books with more focus on mechanics and being more approachable. Needing to know thousands of pages' worth of lore and history to join or run a game is a lot of fun for the sages here at Candlekeep, but it's anathema to a new player, and likely for a decent chunk of the enfranchised base as well.
The last time WotC tried to focus on the lore of the Realms, the moves they made alienated so many of the old fans so loudly that they received hate for a decade and saw quite a few of them quit. While there are arguments to be made about how reasonable that backlash was, it seems clear to me that the message WotC got was "if we don't focus on the lore, the old fans can't be mad that we messed it up again, and the new fans won't be too intimidated to join." |
4e fangirl. Here to queer up the Realms. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2020 : 00:43:37
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quote:
Originally posted by keftiu
The last time WotC tried to focus on the lore of the Realms, the moves they made alienated so many of the old fans so loudly that they received hate for a decade and saw quite a few of them quit. While there are arguments to be made about how reasonable that backlash was, it seems clear to me that the message WotC got was "if we don't focus on the lore, the old fans can't be mad that we messed it up again, and the new fans won't be too intimidated to join."
I would say the issue was that they didn't focus on the lore of the Realms. They ignored what came before, in favor of doing their own thing. And though they walked back a lot of that, they've clearly decided to not worry about lore overmuch -- because they're still tromping on it when they do touch it, even though they're barely doing that. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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keftiu
Senior Scribe
656 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2020 : 02:41:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by keftiu
The last time WotC tried to focus on the lore of the Realms, the moves they made alienated so many of the old fans so loudly that they received hate for a decade and saw quite a few of them quit. While there are arguments to be made about how reasonable that backlash was, it seems clear to me that the message WotC got was "if we don't focus on the lore, the old fans can't be mad that we messed it up again, and the new fans won't be too intimidated to join."
I would say the issue was that they didn't focus on the lore of the Realms. They ignored what came before, in favor of doing their own thing. And though they walked back a lot of that, they've clearly decided to not worry about lore overmuch -- because they're still tromping on it when they do touch it, even though they're barely doing that.
We can argue about how true that is - but either way, I can very easily see a bunch of corporate suits going "hey, the nerds get mad when we do a bunch of story writing stuff, let's lay off on that." I think that's why, for example, the Tomb of Annihilation team decided to avoid describing the history or culture of the native Chultans; their wordcount budgets for "fluff" are likely very thin.
See also: the ongoing fight with how to tell the story in Magic: the Gathering, where they've gone from novels, to free web content, to trying to tell the story through the cards, to novels again, then abruptly doing nothing at all with the last set's story when the novel for the one before was panned. |
4e fangirl. Here to queer up the Realms. |
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cpthero2
Great Reader
USA
2285 Posts |
Posted - 22 Mar 2020 : 21:51:46
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Master Rupert,
That is five billion percent correct.
quote:
They ignored what came before, in favor of doing their own thing. And though they walked back a lot of that, they've clearly decided to not worry about lore overmuch -- because they're still tromping on it when they do touch it, even though they're barely doing that.
This is exactly why, speaking only for myself of course, having spent so many thousands of dollars to own all FR materials/products before 4th, I've spent zero dollars on WotC Realms products since 2007.
They've made their choice. Perhaps it was the right one for the bottom line. I don't know.
Learned Scribe keftiu, you are correct about why they chose to do so, as I commented on in your Second Sundering post. It was a pure business decision. It's saved me a lot of money at least. :)
Best regards,
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Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring |
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Copper Elven Vampire
Master of Realmslore
1078 Posts |
Posted - 25 Mar 2020 : 00:08:51
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During the Wailing years most elves went to Evermeet. Some went to Evereska in search of forbidden lore. Some sought forbidden tombs and ancient powers. Most ended up dead.
These days... elves are worried about shadow-casters invading their hierarchy. Who is to say that the elf you bring in isn't a Phaerimm writing lore in disguise? |
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2442 Posts |
Posted - 25 Mar 2020 : 01:05:34
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From the points of view of my campaigns: during the Wailing Years, the dragonborn would be struggling to survive in a broken land surrounded by violent plaguelands and invaded by plaguechanged thingies. They woyld also be looking for survivors among the ruins of fallen Tymanchebar.
In Neverwinter, an aging Nasher would be acclaimed as king, and will be trying to deal with the chaos ensuing the disappearance of the Many-Starred Cloak and the refugee crisis affecting the Sword Coast.
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Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
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Copper Elven Vampire
Master of Realmslore
1078 Posts |
Posted - 25 Mar 2020 : 01:39:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X
From the points of view of my campaigns: during the Wailing Years, the dragonborn would be struggling to survive in a broken land surrounded by violent plaguelands and invaded by plaguechanged thingies. They woyld also be looking for survivors among the ruins of fallen Tymanchebar.
In Neverwinter, an aging Nasher would be acclaimed as king, and will be trying to deal with the chaos ensuing the disappearance of the Many-Starred Cloak and the refugee crisis affecting the Sword Coast.
The elves of ancient Illefarn would want to usurp that knowledge. That power. The Dragonborn was a ill-fated union to the elves of Faerun. Their power lied mainly from the Nether Scrolls. From the creators of the Nether Scrolls even. |
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keftiu
Senior Scribe
656 Posts |
Posted - 25 Mar 2020 : 02:31:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X
From the points of view of my campaigns: during the Wailing Years, the dragonborn would be struggling to survive in a broken land surrounded by violent plaguelands and invaded by plaguechanged thingies. They woyld also be looking for survivors among the ruins of fallen Tymanchebar.
In Neverwinter, an aging Nasher would be acclaimed as king, and will be trying to deal with the chaos ensuing the disappearance of the Many-Starred Cloak and the refugee crisis affecting the Sword Coast.
Only you could make me crave a “first generation Thymari” campaign. |
4e fangirl. Here to queer up the Realms. |
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Delnyn
Senior Scribe
USA
890 Posts |
Posted - 26 Mar 2020 : 00:27:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Copper Elven Vampire
During the Wailing years most elves went to Evermeet. Some went to Evereska in search of forbidden lore. Some sought forbidden tombs and ancient powers. Most ended up dead.
These days... elves are worried about shadow-casters invading their hierarchy. Who is to say that the elf you bring in isn't a Phaerimm writing lore in disguise?
I thought Evermeet shifted to the Feywild. Are you saying elves plane shifted to Evermeet as opposed to sailing the Trackless Sea? |
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2442 Posts |
Posted - 26 Mar 2020 : 01:09:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Delnyn
I thought Evermeet shifted to the Feywild. Are you saying elves plane shifted to Evermeet as opposed to sailing the Trackless Sea?
While Evermeet indeed was send to the Feywild during the post-Spellplague years, the isle was still connected with the now totally normal isle that was left in Faerûn. And elves can placeshift at will to Evermeet while on the isle. |
Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
Edited by - Zeromaru X on 26 Mar 2020 01:48:53 |
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Delnyn
Senior Scribe
USA
890 Posts |
Posted - 26 Mar 2020 : 01:16:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X
quote:
Originally posted by Delnyn
I thought Evermeet shifted to the Feywild. Are you saying elves plane shifted to Evermeet as opposed to sailing the Trackless Sea?
While Evermeet indeed was send to the Feywild during the post-Spellplague years, the isle was still connected with the now totally normal isle that was left in Faerûn. And elves can placeshift at will to Evermeet at will while on the isle.
This information is greatly appreciated. |
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2442 Posts |
Posted - 26 Mar 2020 : 01:52:01
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| Glad to help. I guess that this eventually lead to the current state of Evermeet: being linked to Arvandor as well, and with an isle in all mortal worlds that have elves (as detailed in Mordenkainen's Foam of Toes... I mean, Tome of Foes). |
Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
Edited by - Zeromaru X on 26 Mar 2020 01:52:35 |
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cpthero2
Great Reader
USA
2285 Posts |
Posted - 27 Mar 2020 : 06:46:38
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Learned Scribe Delnyn,
Damn, you hit the nail on the head with Rob and Ed having to do ninja tricks! After reading that kind of material is exactly why I've done my own timeline that doesn't include the Spellplague. Too messy, unnecessary, and too much work!
Best regards,
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Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring |
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The Wailing Years
