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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6351 Posts

Posted - 30 Nov 2019 : 09:03:39

A new home for random thoughts since the original is gone.

I decided on a date for the founding of port Nyanzaru.

1133 DR is when amns merchant houses bought a permanent presence in nyanzaru from chief Na N'buso.

Its after 1099 when trade with zakhara is opened. Its before house normal is exposed as trafficking slaves (I figure they are chultan slaves), it's also before a trade war in amn over chultan spices.

More importantly its after the disappearance of mezro in 863 DR which I figure gives rise to a time of great chiefs among the chultans in omu, mbala, and nyanzaru in the absence of mezros guiding light, each tribe forming it's own little kingdom and subjugation its neighbours.

Edited by - Gary Dallison on 16 Dec 2019 17:25:16

shades of eternity
Learned Scribe

288 Posts

Posted - 02 Dec 2019 : 20:33:08

I think it could work.

Since Amn no longer controls port Nyanzaru, it could be a source of contention.

check out my post-post apocalyptic world at www.drevrpg.com

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6351 Posts

Posted - 03 Dec 2019 : 08:18:49

Doing some thinking about all the super powerful examples of creatures in chult, there seems to be an awful lot of them, aramag, grumog, nangnang, king of feathers, etc.

Papazotl is one of them but his name strikes me as couatl in origin, perhaps his name is derived from an evil couatl

ElfBane
Learned Scribe

USA
275 Posts

Posted - 03 Dec 2019 : 09:28:28

It is possible that The Wayback Machine could have some of the "Reimagining Chult" thread. You may wish to give that a try. Also, the Mods/Webmasters may do sitewide backups that include all threads. They probably don't, but it wouldn't hurt to contact Wooly or Alaundo.

Edited by - ElfBane on 03 Dec 2019 09:29:44

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6351 Posts

Posted - 03 Dec 2019 : 10:02:44

I hadn't thought of the way back machine, good idea.

Alaundo has known about it since I initially raised the problem of at least one missing thread. I'll presume he is still investigating and I'm happy to wait until he is ready.

It's not a big deal if the thread never reappears, I'm not sure chult is a very popular place (whether that is anything to do with the tomb of annihilation module or just my meddling). Thankfully I use candlekeep as an idea splatboard and then consolidate those ideas on my own site so I don't think I'm missing anything.

I've decided on a trio of couatl (nany pupu can be the third, one each for the spellweaver ruins they are guarding. Two of them turn to evil, the other (eku) remains good and is trying to stop the other two and the yuan ti and the atropal shard in the peaks of flame.

Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
36779 Posts

Posted - 03 Dec 2019 : 11:04:34

quote:
Originally posted by ElfBane

It is possible that The Wayback Machine could have some of the "Reimagining Chult" thread. You may wish to give that a try. Also, the Mods/Webmasters may do sitewide backups that include all threads. They probably don't, but it wouldn't hurt to contact Wooly or Alaundo.

That would be a Big Al thing. I just occasionally glare at people.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6351 Posts

Posted - 03 Dec 2019 : 20:49:45

A provisional date of 1195 DR for Ilybur Kitcher's expedition to Chult.

The date is after Amnian presence in Chult, is over a century before 1358 DR (nearly 2), and is after dates when Cormyr becomes a merchant presence in the inner sea and begins to unite as a kingdom so would begin to amass riches and make connections in far off nations.

sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist

USA
11691 Posts

Posted - 03 Dec 2019 : 22:34:54

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by ElfBane

It is possible that The Wayback Machine could have some of the "Reimagining Chult" thread. You may wish to give that a try. Also, the Mods/Webmasters may do sitewide backups that include all threads. They probably don't, but it wouldn't hurt to contact Wooly or Alaundo.

That would be a Big Al thing. I just occasionally glare at people.

You also give out hamster hugs.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6351 Posts

Posted - 05 Dec 2019 : 10:56:21

The legend of Ch'gakare is an odd one.

So a legendary Chultan warrior / hero stole the kings mastodon and was banished to the nine hells, after battling through baator the warrior slew Ch'gakare and fashioned a chalice out of his skull.

Now i've got a few problems with this story. A hero that steals something from the king, doesnt sound very heroic to me, although it fits with the conan anti-hero vibe that Ed wanted for Chult.

A mastodon is a wholly unsuitable creature to live in a rainforest.

The Chultans do not believe in the nine hells. I can find nothing before Tomb of Annihilation that indicates the Chultans had any belief structure involving Baator.

So, what do Chultans consider to be hell. I would suggest that punishment for bad deeds and for not following the tenets of Ubtao would be for one to be trapped in the maze of his life, a shadowy planar prison perhaps where their souls are pursued and ultimately devoured by great serpents.

So the Omuans were actually the secret remnants of the Eshowe, mingled with tabaxi and other tribes. Ch'gakare was one early king of Omu and a worshipper of Eshowdow. A great Chultan hero (perhaps one of the Barae or future Bara) tries to kill the king and is banished to this prison, but he later escapes and completes his mission to kill the King. The mastodon could easily be some other prehistoric type of elephant (the Ambelodon, a shovel toothed elephant), but completely inconsequential to the tale.

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6351 Posts

Posted - 05 Dec 2019 : 22:17:05

Worked a bit on the ytepka.

The big problems were how did an organisation of effectively iron age humans manage to communicate over hundreds of miles of hostile territory, and how did they remain secret.

Canon says there were 2-3 agents in each settlement which means there are enough to gather Intel but not enough to enact punishment without revealing their allegiance.

So I figure the agents are the spies, but the executioners always come from another settlement.

Then came communication. Magic is strictly controlled so it couldn't be communication via magic without everyone realising the shaman was an agent. Humans cant travel fast enough through jungle, and the dangers of moving regularly between villages would lead to a high turnover of agents.

So I settled on birds who can move long distances in a single day. I figure the birds would travel to mezro each day to use the enchanted wall to hide from predators and return every evening to their home region. I have the headquarters of the ytepka be in the great library.

Then all I needed was the method of communication. I figure some birds can repeat songs they hear and the tongue of the dur-authalar is a trilling song type language so the agents of the ytepka use dur authalar language to the birds who then repeat it in mezro and are taught a return song the the ytepka elders.

The ytepka was formed to battle kyuss originally and they learned dur authalar language when the humans, dwarves, and aarakocra allied against kyuss long ago.

Dalor Darden
Great Reader

USA
4211 Posts

Posted - 05 Dec 2019 : 22:20:11

I hate that they implemented anything to do with Kyuss in the Forgotten Realms. That is just one of my "hatreds" though. lol

The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me!

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6351 Posts

Posted - 06 Dec 2019 : 05:34:30

I don't believe "they" have actually mentioned kyuss anywhere in FR apart from in a dragon mag supplement. I've included him however because he does seem to be a good fit and plus I love Eric's work so I cant leave him out.

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6351 Posts

Posted - 07 Dec 2019 : 14:00:58

So the eshewtak, there appear to be a number of separate organisations in this cult/church. The children of the ebon hand are a military order while the Abuya deimshowa are a mystical order.

Like everything in chult logistics is a problem, how can a pre medieval tech organisation exist spread out across the large island with so much hostile territory in between.
Even more of a problem is that the eshewtak are a secret people following a secret God and thus are secret organisations.

Given the proximity of omu to the valley of lost honour, I'm tempted to make the eshewtak a secret cult within the city of omu. The abuya deimshowa act as the priests while the children of the ebon hand are an order of assassins

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6351 Posts

Posted - 09 Dec 2019 : 21:00:14

Noted the Fane of the Night Serpent beneath the royal palace of Omu. Its an ancient temple so i figure it was part of the original ruins that Omu was built upon.

Given the proximity to the Peaks of Flame i figure this was the site where Sseth (and earlier the Sarrukh of Merrshaulk) broke into the tunnels that lead under the Peaks of Flame and it was here that the sarrukh of Merrshaulk unleashed the sleeping curse on themselves (Sseth later did the same).

I also noted in the Serpent Kingdoms sourcebook a set of items known as the Emeralds of Merrshaulk, which i will be treating as a prototype version of the Netherscrolls.

I gave a name to the hero that killed king Ch'gakare. Atozoar, i figure i might as well go along with the conan theme and make him a large and muscly thief, from Mezro who came to kill the evil Ch'gakare. Ch'gakare discovered the Fane of Serpents and used the magic therein to dominate the tribes around Omu into a united city and then to expand that city into a kingdom. Ch'gakare is also one of the descendants of the Eshowe that hid among the varied tribes of Omu after Mezro vanished from Chult.

So Atozoar tries to kill Ch'gakare but is discovered, he steals Ghom the elephant and rides away but the Omuans chase him into the Great Rift. However, Atozoar is not killed, instead he falls into a rift that deposits him into the same shadowy demi plane prison where the Night Serpent is kept.

It takes Atozoar 30 years, but eventually he escapes using his knowledge of mazes, and reappears in Omu, using Ghom to trample Ch'gakare and take his skull before fleeing into the jungle.

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6351 Posts

Posted - 11 Dec 2019 : 20:40:20

Randomly came across the Ghost Lantern in Tomb of Annihilation. Contains the spirit of an elven warlock slain 1000 years ago by a fomorian.

Well 1000 years ago is during the war with Kazgoroth on the Moonshae Isles and they have Fomorians so StarFallen (translated into Lledaoine) was one of the elves of Winter's Glen, enchanted a number of magic items for the elves of Synnoria (when the two groups began to merge following a marriage alliance between the rules) and was slain by a fomorian but preserved in a magic item of her own making.

Now how did it get to Chult - pirates, adventurers, a mix of both.

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6351 Posts

Posted - 12 Dec 2019 : 15:31:20

Found a random quote from a novel about a hand which if you light candles on the fingers it bends tomorrow into yesterday.

Decided to make it connected to kyuss (for lack of any other suitably evil magic user in chult) and make it a bit monkeys claw like. You hold it and it replaces your hand (your hand withers and drops off), then you can use lots of hideously evil magic powers and if you light the fingers you can travel back in time.

The curse is that after a month (or sooner if you use lots of magic) then you turn into a spawn of kyuss.

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6351 Posts

Posted - 12 Dec 2019 : 21:50:14

Renamed Eku the couatl from ToA to be Ts'ikil from the house of serpents novels and then made Ts'ikil pronounced as Seku with Eku for short.

Also came across bronzewood, which I presume is actually teak as I find references to chultan teak furniture a lot in novels.

Kaaxlaat is now a warrior arm of the maze walkers of ubtao (his religion doesn't have a name so I used the name for his speciality priests.

I have a growing lexicon of words mostly derived from names on maps. Shilku Bay for instance is the Bay of Boars on handsomerobs map so I assume Shilku means boar.

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6351 Posts

Posted - 15 Dec 2019 : 21:14:41

Added in a lot more trees, calantra, zalantar, and rubber trees (I called them whitesap).

Found green spinels that are found only in chult and if crushed and ingested allows the recall of the last spell a person has cast.
I decided to make a link between the spinels and the sstar gems (chardalyn) of the savage frontier because I'm having a tiny of spellweaver in chult.
So the green spinels are again the transformed remnants of spellweaver, and if magic is cast into them they release it when crushed. I figure ras Tfima was using spinels in the ring of winter.

Also begun working on my idea for the cult of frost, trying to make them more than a throw away villain and organisation for a mediocre novel.

Merging the rimefire eidolons and witches and the lore on hleid and iborighu, with ulutiu and annam. I figure the cult of frost is based upon the titans (children of annam) and their attempt to save ostoria and recover the necklace of ulutiu to stop the great glacier covering their empire. They may have succeeded in part and broke the necklace into pieces and scattered it.
Individuals of various races retrieves these pieces and they eventually returned to the great glacier (thanks to rimefire eidolons) and may have been stolen again many times, causing the power and size of the great glacier to expand and shrink many times over the ages.

When humans discovered ruins of ostoria and found carvings depicting the retrieval of the necklace and its pieces they misinterpreted it and the cult of frost was born.

Alaundo
Head Moderator
Admin

United Kingdom
5692 Posts

Posted - 16 Dec 2019 : 16:28:28

quote:
Originally posted by ElfBane

It is possible that The Wayback Machine could have some of the "Reimagining Chult" thread. You may wish to give that a try. Also, the Mods/Webmasters may do sitewide backups that include all threads. They probably don't, but it wouldn't hurt to contact Wooly or Alaundo.

Well met

Apologies for the delay. Alas, the Wayback machine doesn't have many snapshots of Candlekeep, and whilst there is one on the date in question, it is two hours after the issue we had. Typical. Previously to that, it's some months prior, unfortunately.

Alaundo
Candlekeep Forums Head Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

An Introduction to Candlekeep - by Ed Greenwood
The Candlekeep Compendium - Tomes of Realmslore penned by Scribes of Candlekeep

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6351 Posts

Posted - 16 Dec 2019 : 17:24:10

That's fine, cheers for looking into it. I'll just use this thread instead.

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6351 Posts

Posted - 16 Dec 2019 : 20:40:04

So according to Tomb of Annihilation

quote:
The Black Opal Crown was once worn by the archmage
Sadamor of Netheril. Legend speaks of how Sadamor
saw the depths of humanity's evil reflected in the opal
of his crown. Heartbroken, he created a doomsday device-
a sphere of annihilation- to swallow the world but
was consumed by his own creation.

Given the proximity to Halruaa, the tale sounds slightly similar to that of Raumark who was an excellent seer and who jumped into a sphere of annihilation (i think).

Do we know what Raumark's surname (or first name, you could easily have Raumark be either) was?

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6351 Posts

Posted - 17 Dec 2019 : 13:04:58

Noted repeated mentions (in other sources) of calishite mines and slave gangs in the jungles of chult, but can find nothing in the main sourcebooks (Jungle of Chult adventure and Tomb of Annihilation) on the region.

So I figure a mine needs to be near mountains. It also needs to be near the coast if it is a foreign enterprise (so they can be resupplied.

The mistcliffs are out because the jagged coastline and cliffs make it impossible to establish a beach head.
I figure amn wouldn't exactly welcome calishite satraps into port nyanzaru. The kobold mountains and peaks of flame are on the southern edge of chult and a bit far away.

That leaves the luo peaks / sky lizard mountains which has no details on it other than pteramen live there. I figure calishite satraps have coastal villas and send teams of slaves through the jungle to the mountains. Any slaves that die in the jungle or killed by pteramen are replaced by any natives they can find or from slaves bought from pirates / slaves- I figure this is where the jahan pirates come in.

Found an entry in undermointain about captains of the ship the storm kraken who sell chultan slaves in skull port and I presume take slaves from skull port to chult and sell to calishites.

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6351 Posts

Posted - 18 Dec 2019 : 11:26:01

Finished working on my mythology surrounding the sarrukh and Merrshaulk and the yuan-ti.

Apparently Merrshaulk and the other serpentfolk gods were created when the World Serpent fractured after the creation of the yuan-ti and the naga.

However, the yuan-ti and naga only existed in Mhairshaulk at that time, so how did Okoth and Isstosseffifil learn about this new deity when there is no indication of any connection between the sarrukh of these empires (and possible hints that the empires were not friendly to one another, with Okoth having outcast the sarrukh of the other empires).

Furthermore, Merrshaulk or Sseth or some other deity that resembles the World Serpent is the only deity worshipped in Okoth and Isstosseffifil, none of the other fractured gods are worshipped which says that they were unknown in those lands.

Only Mhairshaulk and those successor realms of Mhairshaulk (Serpentes, Najara, Hlondeth) worship the likes of Shekinester, Varae, and other gods that supposedly arose from the fracturing of the World Serpent.

Lastly if Merrshaulk came into being after the yuan-ti were created then that means Merrshaulk was named after Mhairshaulk. That seems a little like yuan-ti vanity.

I believe that the stories of the sarrukh gods are all from the perspective of the yuan-ti, and have been corrupted by the passage of time. I reckon the World Serpent fracturing myth was caused by the fracturing of Okoth society and the migration of the sarrukh to other empires. It might also have been further confused with the tales of Jazirian and Ahriman from the Outer Planes.

Merrshaulk was likely a real being, who probably led the sarrukh to found Mhairshaulk. He used fleshwarping powers on himself and became the first anathema (not a yuan-ti anathema but a sarrukh anathema). It was Merrshaulk who created the yuan-ti and the naga by consuming other creatures and combining their DNA to form new beings.

Ultimately Merrshaulk took his fleshwarping abilities too far and his own body fell apart to form other great serpentine creatures of legend (Varae, Shekinester, Ssharstrune, Squamata, Amphisbaena, Dendar).

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6351 Posts

Posted - 18 Dec 2019 : 20:38:51

Found mentions of halflings in Chult, a perilous gateway article hints that there may have been a tribe of wild halflings in the jungle at one point (before they were slain and raised from the dead).

Wild halflings to me say Ghostwise, and it would appear that there is a portal connecting the Mhair Jungle to the southern Lluirwood where the Ghostwise used to live (before they were driven out following -65 DR ish).

I reckon a tribe or two of ghostwise halflings hidden amid the Chultengar would fit quite well with the feel of Chult.

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6351 Posts

Posted - 20 Dec 2019 : 12:54:35

Came across an odd mosquito like creature that injected its victims with larvae that then chewed their way out of the host. I decided to make them one of a number of creatures I now term Kyusspawn that infest the Chultengar region.

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6351 Posts

Posted - 20 Dec 2019 : 21:27:21

Working on a lifecycle for the kyusspawn (my name for all the creatures of Kyuss - which thus far is the Bloodworm, the Quanlos, and the Spawn of Kyuss).

I figure that something in Kuluth-Mar is creating the bloodworms, either it is the creature known as the Herald of Kyuss (perhaps Kyuss' high priest before Kyuss murdered all his followers), or perhaps the obelisk in which Kyuss is imprisoned exudes these bloodworms (like Halloween 2).

The bloodworms crawl around looking for a host to infect. If its a humanoid then the worms burrow inside and lay eggs. They give the host accelerated healing, but require it to eat ever greater amounts of food (it eventually starves to death from the enormous energy requirements).

Once the host dies, the bloodworm eggs hatch and begin to feast upon the flesh of the corpse. They also reanimate the corpse (they are small at this point and dwell in the muscles, heart, brain, etc so they keep the body in a state between living and death - it is not undeath though) and move it towards other living creatures. This is the Spawn of Kyuss.

Anything struck by a Spawn of Kyuss is showered in bloodworms and if one burrows into the victim the lifecycle starts all over again.

If a bloodworm burrows into an insect egg, then it creates a Quanlos, like a large mosquito filled with larva. When the quanlos attacks a victim, it injects these larvae into the body. The larvae then eat the victims insides and emerge as miniature quanlos.

I might look for more aberrant style worm infested monsters to relate to Kyuss.

I figure the Great Conclave of spirit naga are actually trying to keep the monsters of Kyuss at bay (perhaps the naga cannot be infested and so live in Kuluth-Mar trying to kill the Kyusspawn which are a danger to all living things).

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6351 Posts

Posted - 25 Dec 2019 : 19:19:13

So the fourth peak of the peaks of flame became a shattered peak and a sacred temple to the wild dwarves around 700 dr.

I figure this means the volcano blew itself apart on this date, and thereafter became home to the great wyrm emerald dragon that now resides there and she gathered the dwarves to worship her.

So before that date I'm having the fourth peak be a lair of imvaerharno. The question is why would he have a lair here and in ruathym (see the legend of inferno and the fire newts). I think the gathering of fire newts was a means to an end.

The only thing I can think of that might be some use to inferno is the emeralds of mershaulk. I figure these prototypes for the nether scrolls are weave anchors but for their own mini weave. With them inferno could get people to access a weave he controls, or he could tune them into the weave and would be in direct control of these weave anchors and thus be able to bar people from the weave.

It's easy to imagine not all of the emeralds were stolen by tashalan slaves that fled to lapaliiya and then onto lhespen and then stolen by gnolls. It's also easy to imagine that from lapaliiya one or two might have been found by calishites and sold north or stolen by pirates or even northmen and ended up in ruathym (the light at the bottom of the shaft in the fortress ruins at ruathym is green I believe)

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6351 Posts

Posted - 29 Dec 2019 : 20:41:23

Found a quote from Ed's scrolls that says Ed's original chult was full of large maggot like parasites. I'll take that as justification that kyuss belongs in chult after all.

Dalor Darden
Great Reader

USA
4211 Posts

Posted - 29 Dec 2019 : 20:57:17

Sweet!

Where was that?

The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me!

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6351 Posts

Posted - 30 Dec 2019 : 02:46:48

quote:
createvmind, Ed did indeed create Chult, and populated it with lots of nasty insects and maggot-like parasites, too (never published by TSR). I'll prod him to dig up his old, old notes on this topic.

Its from 30th December 2008

Dalor Darden
Great Reader

USA
4211 Posts

Posted - 30 Dec 2019 : 02:54:41

That is awesome when something Ed did actually matches up with what you are doing! I mean, Kyuss was originally a �Greyhawk� thing, but you are really making him work in the Realms.

The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me!

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