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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
4766 Posts

Posted - 11 Oct 2019 :  08:56:45  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
Next project is going to be ruathym I think (and gundarlun, tuern, and the other little islands off the northern sword coast).

So I'm asking you wonderful scribes for all spurious mentions that you can find in any sourcebook or article (even fanon is fine with me, they are a great source of npc names), as well as any novels (It would appear i have to read them to get much needed flesh on the bones of these outlying areas).


A few things I've noted in my research thus far is that the migration pattern of northmen to the island is really messed up, with at least 3 separate migration routes and times to the island.

Another is that there are an awful lot of scribes and sages on ruathym even though it is supposed to be a brutal and warlike society.

Halflings in Holgerstead ??????

At least three mentions of the word Green when describing separate landmarks or npcs.

That's it for now. Much appreciation in advance for any sources you can point me to (I think I've found most, but there are always a few non ocr articles I miss).

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shades of eternity
Learned Scribe

262 Posts

Posted - 11 Oct 2019 :  22:02:07  Show Profile  Visit shades of eternity's Homepage Send shades of eternity a Private Message  Reply with Quote
well for starters

https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Ruathym

https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Gundarlun

https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Tuern

I'm already seeing a ton of Luskan Shenanigans you can play off of when it comes from these islands.

One of the islands appears to be an iceland analogue so you could have a ton of fun with that.

In fact one of the fun of the Realms is trying to figure out what they were reading when they made them so here's a list.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_islands_of_Europe

Plus doing a version of Oak Island off the isles is practically pitch perfect for a dungeon with it's own nautical theme.

Hope this helps. :)

check out my post-post apocalyptic world at www.drevrpg.com
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
8347 Posts

Posted - 12 Oct 2019 :  00:37:38  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Definitely for Fanon, look at AJA's stuff of 5 NPCs. He's got some great stuff there for NPC's of those islands.

From the novel Tangled Webs, they visit Ruathym and visit Yggdrasil's Child
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Yggdrasil%27s_Child

https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Tangled_Webs

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
5615 Posts

Posted - 12 Oct 2019 :  08:09:29  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
FR5 The Savage Frontier remains the best source for islands of the Trackless Sea lore.

— George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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Thauramarth
Senior Scribe

United Kingdom
667 Posts

Posted - 12 Oct 2019 :  10:21:16  Show Profile Send Thauramarth a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I seem to recall that in FR7 Hall of Heroes, there’s some lore on Aumark Lithyl, ruler of Ruathym, who was a member of the Knights of Myth Drannor.

Club Secretary of the Dragons on the Hill RPG Club of London, UK: http://dragonsonthehill.co.uk/.

Edited by - Thauramarth on 12 Oct 2019 10:22:00
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
4766 Posts

Posted - 13 Oct 2019 :  17:53:27  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
All good sources. I think I also need to read tangled webs which has more than a few mentions of ruathym in it.

I've read somewhere that the source of the green light in the shaft at inthar is actually a banshee which seems a huge waste of a plot hook.

Aumark Lithyl appears to have united four separate kingdoms into a single kingdom, which at the very least gives an indication of how many different tribes might currently exist on ruathym (illuskans being one tribe, Rus being another, both of which left the island in whole or part at some point in the past.


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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
8347 Posts

Posted - 13 Oct 2019 :  20:04:57  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
From Dungeon 196 regarding Yggdrasil's Child. I know you aren't big on godly involvement, nor events that likely happened after the spellplague (because this was written during 4e), but it does kind of reveal the power or purpose of Yggdrasil's Child.

The truth behind the child Hergatha is known by none but the gods. Her mother was a young lass on Ruathym, left with child by a berserker who went off raiding and died at sea. Pregnant and with no one to protect her, the young woman wandered away from her village. Lost and confused in a storm, she found shelter under the boughs of a tree, known as Yggdrasil’s Child, within a clearing in the forest. The child was born there, and the mother—both joyful at the birth of a daughter and distraught at the prospects for an unwed woman and a fatherless daughter in her society—felt the urge to carve her daughter’s true name into the tree with the same dagger that she used to cut the umbilical cord. While doing this, she begged Tempus to watch over her daughter and give her the strength to survive. Tempus heard the call of the woman, but so did Umberlee, whose storm was beating down upon the island at that exact moment.

Thus, two deities blessed the child. Tempus gave Hergatha strength and skill in battle, while Umberlee gave her an overpowering force of personality and the will to see her enemies suffer. Umberlee also gave the girl both a blessing and a curse. She could never drown, yet she would wish to see the whole world die beneath the waves. To seal the pact, Hergatha’s mother died in a lightning strike, and Umberlee carried the child to the shores of Northland.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
4766 Posts

Posted - 13 Oct 2019 :  20:28:03  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well I've decided to ignore the deific stuff as you suspected, I've come up with an alternate explanation.

I have seen in places that labelas and clangeddin warred on the island during the ToT (an event I will also ignore), and I've seen a fanon explanation that they were trying to use the tree to access other planes, which is a fairly sensible explanation for the fight given its connection to the world tree (supposedly).

I've still got hergatha though and her name was carved in the tree, and she has super strength and other powers. No gods though

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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer

USA
1544 Posts

Posted - 13 Oct 2019 :  23:45:07  Show Profile  Visit ericlboyd's Homepage Send ericlboyd a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison

Well I've decided to ignore the deific stuff as you suspected, I've come up with an alternate explanation.

I have seen in places that labelas and clangeddin warred on the island during the ToT (an event I will also ignore), and I've seen a fanon explanation that they were trying to use the tree to access other planes, which is a fairly sensible explanation for the fight given its connection to the world tree (supposedly).

I've still got hergatha though and her name was carved in the tree, and she has super strength and other powers. No gods though



I like that explanation, as the battle's location on Ruathym otherwise didn't make much sense.

FWIW, the battle takes place in the comics.

--Eric

--
http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
5615 Posts

Posted - 14 Oct 2019 :  06:53:45  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I like that explanation too. I think that the portal that the Rus and the other Northmen/Illuskans have used must be that tree itself and that it operates as an internal portal nexus as well as an interplanar nexus. Who knows, it may have been an aearee nest, and a secret base of the Ba'etith and then later co-opted by other races who learned how to harness its inherent magic ...

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
4766 Posts

Posted - 14 Oct 2019 :  07:26:45  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I was thinking Fey myself, they are one of the creator races after all (although I think they are more of a conglomeration of individuals than a race), and the moonshaes is a major Fey place and is only next door.

I'm thinking the Fey made it first but for their own purpose (like a super Fey crossroad, and they grow it rather than make it). The other races then co-opt the use of an arakhor for their own purposes.

After all we have dates to show that the sarrukh, batrachi, and aearee gained supremacy in roughly that order but nothing for the Fey, and I suspect they lives alongside all these empires the whole time.

Just my thoughts though. It does seem like a good place for an aearee enclave to anchor itself to the land and refuel (as it were - more likely get nutrients into their living tree flying fortress)

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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
8347 Posts

Posted - 15 Oct 2019 :  00:01:33  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yeah, I like that explanation as well for why those particular deities were there in conflict during the ToT. If the tree had links to the world ash, that would make a great interplanar link, and one with links to a realm of dwarves (svartalfheim) and a realm of elves (Alfheim)

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
4766 Posts

Posted - 15 Oct 2019 :  08:30:47  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thinking about inthar and the green light, what if its sat atop the end of one of the roots of yggdrasils childe, and that root is the last functioning/accessible means of using the celestial staircase function of this tree.

This also means that all kinds of horrors from any plane could be in that pit and the denizens likely change over time.

The big question is who built a fortress on a tiny islet in the middle of the raging trackless sea. Dwarves could possibly do it but the sea is not their natural setting, so is it a sarrukh/batrachi/faeree legacy. Why would you build a fortress in the middle of the ocean especially since the sarrukh and batrachi had no neighbours or any enemies that a fortress would stop. Perhaps it's a prison (I'm thinking baldurs gate 2 style, perhaps they made several prisons).

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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
5615 Posts

Posted - 15 Oct 2019 :  12:17:57  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
If it's a Ba'etith stronghold, then being isolated from other Creator Race settlements would be appropriate.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
4766 Posts

Posted - 15 Oct 2019 :  13:34:46  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Very true, and they would probably be interested in studying the roots of the tree if one were to thrust up in that particular location. Baetith stronghold it is. No reason it cant be a prison now after the baetith abandoned it and their living experiments were left behind.

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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer

USA
1544 Posts

Posted - 15 Oct 2019 :  13:52:38  Show Profile  Visit ericlboyd's Homepage Send ericlboyd a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison
Dwarves could possibly do it but the sea is not their natural setting ...



Just to play devil's advocate, why not the Madbeards of Haunghdannar? " ... ship after ship that put out did not return ..."

Maybe they were headed to a portal ...

--
http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/

Edited by - ericlboyd on 15 Oct 2019 13:53:54
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
4766 Posts

Posted - 15 Oct 2019 :  14:11:48  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm certain the madbeards were involved here but I'm not certain they built inthar (maybe repaired it). If I recall correctly haugnadar (cant even begin to spell that from memory) was founded by dwarves from another kingdom (like all dwarven kingdoms) and so ultimately they were landlubbers at the start. They may have developed seafaring skills although I'm not sure if this was pre or post madness (ie did they go mad and then find the ruins or did they find the ruins and go mad).
Building in the middle of the ocean is not a simple task, especially oceans that are frequently violent like the trackless sea. Huge swells can smash into small islands with frightening regularity and just getting supplies to an island like that would be a monumental task, never mind building something.

That's kind of why I think the dwarves went a sailing and found these ruins and rebuilt them (easier to rebuild a fortress than start from scratch, at least the foundations are there and offer some shelter), and it was their rebuilding and excavating that uncovered the thing that made them madbeards.

I suspect you and George may already have an idea on this though. Haugnadar has always been intriguing as to why they went a few rocks short of a pile crazy.

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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
5615 Posts

Posted - 16 Oct 2019 :  00:39:45  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison

I suspect you and George may already have an idea on this though. Haugnadar has always been intriguing as to why they went a few rocks short of a pile crazy.



Oh we'll get there. Never fear.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
4766 Posts

Posted - 25 Oct 2019 :  20:51:40  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
So ive been wondering about a few things.

-3000 DR the illuskans discover Ruathym

-1000 DR: For the next few centuries, the Illuskans of Ruathym colonize the Gull Rocks, Gundarlun, Mintarn, the Purple Rocks, the Teeth, Tuern (a.k.a., Uttersea), Umukek, the Wave Rocks, and the Whalebones. In time these Illuskan seafarers become known as the Northmen. Thinking them cursed, the Northmen stay clear of the Moonshae Isles and its mischievous fey inhabitants.


So why did it take over 2000 years for them to colonise other islands.
Were the northlanders so small in number that they had no need to spread out, nor could they spare the men to do so.
Were the northlanders enslaved to another group that they finally overthrew.
Were the northlanders so happy on their island that they saw no reason to leave it.
Did the northlanders somehow lose the ability to build ships and sail.
Were the northlanders prevented from sailing by the climate at the time.

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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
4766 Posts

Posted - 25 Oct 2019 :  20:55:56  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
1) Exploring the first idea. Were the northlanders so small in number that they had no need to spread out, nor could they spare the men to do so.

The northmen migrated to Ruathym in at least 3 separate migrations. One group coming south from the northern seas. Another group heading north from calimshan. A third appearing inland and heading west toward the Sword Coast (i reckon these are the illuskans).

They are nomadic tribal groups. The settle an area, deplete it of resources, attack everything around them (because they are aggressive), and then move on when things get too problematic.
They migrate to Ruathym beginning -3000 DR onwards, but numbers are very low (due to them attacking everything along the way) and it take an age or two to recover.

When finally their numbers grow too large for the island they expand outwards in a series of migrations known as the Shattering (a religious festival i found that i think fits quite well with the northmen lore).



2) The northmen were enslaved by another race already on the island of Ruathym and it took a long time for them to shake off their shackles. Tuern is home to fire giants and red dragons (supposedly imprisoned their by inferno), it is possible that Frost Giants or Stone Giants haunt Ruathym and ruled it.

Against this theory is the fact that dwarves lived on the island a thousand years earlier, and they would not get on with giants.

Perhaps the northmen were enslaved by whatever made the dwarves made, and then they later conquered that presumably magical enslavement.



3) The northlanders were happy and didnt want to leave. Unlikely given the harsh environment of Ruathym. It doesnt have a lot of resources, the weather is awful.



4 and 5) The northlanders lost the ability to sail and or climate prevented them from leaving Ruathym.

One possibility is that the northmen didnt leave Ruathym because they couldnt. The climate for the north is a bit of a mess (thanks to the -2550 DR in GHoTR, i still maintain it should be -25500 DR), but in the modern age there are glaciers floating around Tuern.

The High Ice in Netheril covered the majority of the Narrow Sea every year until the Netherese stopped it by building Mythallars along its edge (i pegged that to about -2880 DR).
-2550 DR onwards the Great Glacier expands to cover Vaasa and Damara.

So it is entirely possible that the northmen tribes did not sail to Ruathym, but walked across the ice (there is a huge horn that belonged to Uthgars brother Morgred which came from huge white mammoths that once roamed the north). If they did sail to Ruathym then its equally possible that glaciers prevented them from sailing away. Tuern is volcanic, Ruathym is mountainous, i expect all the islands are a little bit warmed by volcanic activity and sheltered by the mountains, making them perfect places to settle in ice age conditions.

Then around -2475 DR the elves of Larlotha work magic to limit the expansion of the Great Glacier and perhaps the ice started to thaw across the north. Eventually the seas become ice free and the northmen are able to start sailing once more, but they have to relearn it. It takes them 2000 years before they are able to leave and discover other islands.

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Edited by - Gary Dallison on 25 Oct 2019 21:12:36
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Gary Dallison
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United Kingdom
4766 Posts

Posted - 25 Oct 2019 :  21:27:22  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
My last thought is -1000 DR, the northmen start colonising Tuern, Gundarlun, Whalebones, Mintarn, etc.


First of all, such generalised dates pose nothing but problems in realmslore. Most people tend to take the dates as an absolute (ie -1001 they were all on Ruathym, -1000 they are on all the islands), when the truth is usually more of a measured scale.
Secondly these generalised dates tend to be way off.


So what if by -1000 DR the seas around Ruathym are ice free and the northmen begin sailing and discovering other islands but it is not until much later (the original quote says "For the next few centuries", what if it was as many as 8 or 9 centuries) that colonies actually appear on other islands.

My thought is -105 DR the Rus move from Ruathym to Rashemen.
95 DR Uthgar sacks netherese illusk.

What if the migration of the Rus is as a result of the Shattering and one of many migrations. The illuskan tribe grows too powerful and forces many of the other northmen tribes to leave Ruathym (they leave or are subjugated, not all leave, some stay and become one of the 4 jarldoms on Ruathym). They head to Tuern (the Turr), Gundarlun (the Darr), the Whalebones, Mintarn (the Intar - sounds like the fortress near Ruathym), led by an infamous northman explorer who would become revered.

This Shattering probably begins around -300 to -200 DR, and ends by around 0 DR.

Once Ruathym is majority illusk, then they spread out and begin to reconquer their homelands. First is Illusk. Oddly enough Illusk is owned by seafarers (implied northmen) in -2368 DR, long before Ruathym begins to colonise other lands. If the illuskans came from the land they could have founded Illusk on the shore of the Sword Coast before they then sailed to Ruathym, then when they lost contact because of glaciers they could have returned to find out the Netherese now lived there (that would really tick them off).



Just a series of thoughts about Ruathym and its migration pattern and trying to weave in a bit of lore about Valkur (yes it says he was from Mintarn, but what if that is just where he ended up colonising).


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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
5615 Posts

Posted - 25 Oct 2019 :  21:36:36  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Maybe they spent 2000 years raiding in a westerly direction ... just saying.

— George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
4766 Posts

Posted - 25 Oct 2019 :  21:41:06  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
True, but humans are naturally lazy and always take the path of least resistance, and 10000 miles of ocean isn't the easy way.

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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
4766 Posts

Posted - 25 Oct 2019 :  21:56:15  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I realise I rambled a lot so here is the short version

Northmen tribes migrate to ruathym, one found illusk on the way (forcing out the ice hunter). Glaciers prevent northmen from leaving ruathym for a long time. Illusk is annihilated by orcs and refunded by netherese.

Ice melts, illuskan tribe gains supremacy. Other northmen tribe begin to leave ruathym in a migration event known as the shattering.
Rus head to whalebones, others head to turn, Gundarlun, mintarn, etc.

Illuskans return to mainland and find netherese in their ancestral city of illusk and attack it.

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BadLuckBugbear
Learned Scribe

USA
92 Posts

Posted - 26 Oct 2019 :  01:54:44  Show Profile Send BadLuckBugbear a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Rus?

Are those people from Earth, then? Some of Rurik's Norse followers gone astray or men from Kievan Rus, Novgorod, Muscovy?

Or is this just a case of coincidence?

Ewan Cummins
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
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Posted - 26 Oct 2019 :  17:45:13  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I don't doubt that at least in some stage of their development they were meant to draw parallels with the Rus tribes in the real world. I make no such link myself, they are simply a nomadic tribe of Norse like people that came to faerun from elsewhere

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