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 Epic Spellcasting [Pathfinder]
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LordofBones
Senior Scribe

961 Posts

Posted - 18 Sep 2019 :  10:48:40  Show Profile Send LordofBones a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
Epic spells in Pathfinder follow the standard research rules. However, in the Realms, the knowledge of epic magic is restricted by order of Mystra. To learn an epic spell, arcane spellcasters - including sorcerers - must undertake long years of study and epic quests, deciphering fragments of ancient languages in forgotten tombs, and such eldritch tasks to learn such potent dweomers. The same is true of clerics and druids - the gods will not allow another Netheril, whether from a proud mageling or a vaunted priest.

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<spells to come>

Copper Elven Vampire
Senior Scribe

596 Posts

Posted - 21 Sep 2019 :  07:23:03  Show Profile Send Copper Elven Vampire a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones

Epic spells in Pathfinder follow the standard research rules. However, in the Realms, the knowledge of epic magic is restricted by order of Mystra. To learn an epic spell, arcane spellcasters - including sorcerers - must undertake long years of study and epic quests, deciphering fragments of ancient languages in forgotten tombs, and such eldritch tasks to learn such potent dweomers. The same is true of clerics and druids - the gods will not allow another Netheril, whether from a proud mageling or a vaunted priest.

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<spells to come>



Break the rules a little. especially when creating epic spells in any format or any world. It took only tens of Elven High Mages to create the Killing Storms that wiped out four elven, human and dwarven nations, and hundreds of elven high mages to create the Sundering before that. An Archmage is paltry in power compared to a elven high mage, singular or in unison. If a human Archmage wanted to spell battle a Elven High Mage, I'd put my money on the elf any day or night.

Example... A Human Wizard 20/ Archmage 5. Versus a Elven Wizard 20/ Elven High Mage 5 would be moot. The elven high mage has a pocket of power that is alien to humans. They tap a part of the weave that humans could never do even if they lived long enough to be a Lich. Then add the Lich template to the human... lol. Still in game terms the human couldn't hope to freely cast epic spells in the way a elven high mage could. Not to mention casting epic High elven magic spells, which are far beyond human casters of any level.

Again... if you go by D&D FR rules... an epic high elven spell has more power than a epic human archmage spell ever could. Elves are part of the weave... humans are not.

Larloch vs, The Shrinshee.... The Shrinshee wins every time in a spell battle.

I would just create your epic spells as you see fit considering they are epic and you play by the rules. Tweek and warp the spell as you see fit for your game. Maybe craft a epic spell that only requires a wave of a hand and no spoken words, Or a epic spell that requires no S,M or V component. Even casting a spell with the blink of an eye is Somatic in my world.

Break the rules a little and cast an epic spell with a mere thought? That would be along the lines of elven high magic, but not entirely broken, as elven high magic was meant to break things on titanic, epic levels. lol.

3.5ed gave humans and halflings and gnomes and all humanoids the capability of coming close to elven high magic. The Epic Archmage is as far as a humanoid can go in the arcane arts without casting Elven High Magic spells.

Example... Sinderphaz Shadowstone is a CN Rock Gnome male of Baravar Cloakshadow... Sorcerer 10/ Shadowcrafter 10/ Archmage 5/ Epic Archmage 5. This Gnome is a 30th level caster... Insanely powerful to any normal FR game... average in a epic level game. But compare him to this...

Swindlestix Sullenhollow is a Moon elf male of Erevan Ilesere... Sorcerer 15/ Arcane Devotee 5/ Elven High Mage 10.

KAPOW!!!... those 10 levels of EHM just upped the spellcasting power and casting of spells to a new nasty level.

Even though they are both level 30 arcane casters, the EHM has the advantage in sheer power and insanity of crafting new epic and high magic spells that cannot be touched in game play. It's unfair really, but you have to keep the humans in check somehow.

Pathfinder... FR... Greyhawk.... Dragonlance.... Darksun... whatever... Epic rules are yours to control.

A Unchained Rogue in Pathfinder makes a Rogue in FR look like a pansy.

So my point is just craft those epic spells in Pathfinder as you see fit. Follow the rules but tweak them a bit. It's epic after all.

CEV
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LordofBones
Senior Scribe

961 Posts

Posted - 21 Sep 2019 :  07:49:35  Show Profile Send LordofBones a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The actual elven high mage prestige class is terrible. You get 5/10 casting and marginally cheaper epic spells, except that the in-game epic spellcasting rules can be hilariously exploited. In all your examples, the dude without EHM levels is actually a better caster than the rest, since he gains full spellcasting progression while the elf is stuck 5 levels behind.

I'd also contest elves being part of the weave, since Mystra is a human deity.

Also, Larloch is a better caster than the Srinshee. She's 30th level in-game, Larloch is 32nd; in Ed Greenwood's canon, Larloch is 46th while she's 54th level...as a multiclassed sorcerer/wizard that has less CL than Larloch in either class.
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Copper Elven Vampire
Senior Scribe

596 Posts

Posted - 21 Sep 2019 :  10:42:28  Show Profile Send Copper Elven Vampire a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones

The actual elven high mage prestige class is terrible. You get 5/10 casting and marginally cheaper epic spells, except that the in-game epic spellcasting rules can be hilariously exploited. In all your examples, the dude without EHM levels is actually a better caster than the rest, since he gains full spellcasting progression while the elf is stuck 5 levels behind.

I'd also contest elves being part of the weave, since Mystra is a human deity.

Also, Larloch is a better caster than the Srinshee. She's 30th level in-game, Larloch is 32nd; in Ed Greenwood's canon, Larloch is 46th while she's 54th level...as a multiclassed sorcerer/wizard that has less CL than Larloch in either class.



Kapow! She wins every time. kinda unfair. And yes, it is stated in Elves of Evermeet that elves are actually part of the weave. Just because its ruled by a human woman doesn't mean they are less connected. Perhaps Corellon has a deal with Mystra in conjunction?

I'm just going by canon.
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Copper Elven Vampire
Senior Scribe

596 Posts

Posted - 21 Sep 2019 :  12:19:40  Show Profile Send Copper Elven Vampire a Private Message  Reply with Quote
So you're saying a Rogue 5/ Cleric 5 is not as good as just a simple Cleric 10?

At lower levels it makes a world of difference. Yes your cleric 10 has 5 levels of spells on your game, but at 5th level you can cast 3rd level spells and SA for 3d6 added damage on top of your regular melee. Even at higher levels it matters... A 15th level cleric cannot deal as much damage as a 5th level rogue/ 10th level cleric in melee during a SA... as a rogue you'll have that chance every round. Once you learn how to properly cast divine spells you'll understand that at 10th level cleric you can only cast 5th level spells max. as a 3d6 rogue and 3rd level divine spells you can fully destroy a common 10th level cleric.
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Copper Elven Vampire
Senior Scribe

596 Posts

Posted - 21 Sep 2019 :  12:57:21  Show Profile Send Copper Elven Vampire a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Sorry... wrong post. Wrong thread. I'm sorry.

That being said... Larloch vs. The Shrinshee... Besides obvious powers I mentioned above, she is chosen of 2 gods/ goddesses. LOB... even wielders of the Silver Fire fear her. In game terms Larloch is a ultra epic caster.... Even Elminster cannot deal with Larloch alone. But The Shrinshee is pretty much a elven demi-goddess. Divine Rank of 0.

And that's without her Silver fire from Mystra. lol.

I would stat her as thus...

The Shrinshee: CN Chosen of Corellon Larethian, Chosen of Mystra Moon elf female of Cormanthyr. CR 50; Sorcerer 20/ Wizard 10/ Archmage 5/ Elven High Mage 10/ Epic Archmage 5.

Plus Silverfire and older than Larloch (whom is Netherese) and reader and protector of a Nether Scroll, and can basically create a new epic spell with a fart. lol. She knows all the seeds to create epic elven high magic spells and a dealer of death to make Zazz Tam look like an alter boy.

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