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 Scyllua Darkhope from 1368-1375
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Forgotten Realms Designer

1544 Posts

Posted - 24 Sep 2019 :  14:37:24  Show Profile  Visit ericlboyd's Homepage Send ericlboyd a Private Message  Reply with Quote
For the curious, the original reference to Errtu is in the AD&D DMG (1e), page 198, in the appendix that lists all the monsters.

There you will find a list of the "top 6" Type VI demons. The first was "Balor", which became the name of the subrace in AD&D2 and beyond. The other five include Alzoll, Errtu, Ndulu, Ter-Soth, and Wendonai.

Errtu first appeared in a Realmsian context in The Crystal Shard, IIRC, which was written during the AD&D1 era. Ndulu first appeared in a Realmsian context in FR4 - The Magister (although there may have been a preceding Dragon article, AJA!!!). I think it was me who added Wendonai in Lost Empires of Faerun, pages 54-55. I don't think Alzoll or Ter-Soth have been mentioned in a Realmsian context yet, but I might be forgetting. Another Balor who has been mentioned in the Realms is Grintharke.

In my mind, Errtu, Ndulu, and Wendonai are examples of elite balors. In 1e and 2e, that means they have a balor's stats. In a 3e/3.5e context, if detailing them, I would probably advance them in HD (to the max if it fit the mechanics-requirements, less if I wanted lower level PCs to be able to battle them) or give them levels in an appropriate prestige class (e.g. fiend of corruption 6 for Wendonai). I would not, however, consider them demon lords or princes. (They were not mentioned in the list of demon lords and princes given in the AD&D Monster Manual II (1e), page 35).

I would add that my theory is that the Abyss is filled with infinite demons, demons acquire specific "associations" with specific regions of specific Prime Material Worlds. So, Ndulu is "associated" with The North and Ndulu is associated with Narfell and its heirs. Wendonai is a bit of an outlier, and has moved around Faerun from an initial association with the Ilythiiri to drow in general (Dark Court Slaughter) to Narfell.

I should note that Soneillion, from Champions of Ruin, is noted on the list of demon lords (not princes) in AD&D Monster Manual II (1e), page 35. In her case though, I left it ambiguous (moreso in my original draft) as to whether she was THE Soneillion or not.

Just my two cents.



Edited by - ericlboyd on 24 Sep 2019 17:30:38
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Learned Scribe

321 Posts

Posted - 24 Sep 2019 :  14:57:37  Show Profile Send AJA a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by ericlboyd
(although there may have been a preceding Dragon article, AJA!!!)

Dragon Magazine #91, "Treasure Trove," p.60, under the "Demonbane" entry.
"Forty-seven fantastic magic items for the AD&D game, from the imaginations of DRAGON Magazine readers!"

(Also has three Ed articles, including one of his "Nine Hells" pieces. Good issue! )

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37 Posts

Posted - 24 Sep 2019 :  22:39:28  Show Profile Send rangerstranger a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Copper Elven Vampire

Originally posted by ericlboyd

I assume you saw that Lashan appears in Shadowdale: Scouring of the Land, page 57, in the form of a nycaloth.

Could make for an interesting plot twist for Scyllua to confront her dad, if you want her to have a redemption arc.


Lashan the Nycaloth almost destroyed our entire party during that module. Our DM had to implement divine intervention from Erevan Ilesere to win the battle. I'm not sure that Scyllua is a high enough level to destroy her father in one on one combat.

Our party consisted of Curudin Ahmaquissar: Trickster-Touched Moon elf Rogue 5/ Cleric 5/ Mischiefmaker 5/ Shadowtrick Priest 5 of Erevan Ilesere.

Lairlefain Starleaf: Copper elf Rogue 5/ Swashbuckler 10/ Shadowblade 5.

Terrindill Shaelarra: Gold elf Rogue 10/ Shadowdancer 10.

Pheyloo Audark: Wild elf Rogue 5/ Assassin 10/ Quietknife 5.

Nym Nightsong: Star elf Rogue 5/ Sorcerer 5/ Shadowmage 10.

All 20th level PC's. In the end of the module we had our epic battle against Her Nycaloth father and herself, and our DM had to send an Avatar of Erevan to even up the fight. I do understand that the module is not a "High-level" adventure, but our DM tweaked all the stats in the game to bring everything up to a 15th thru 20th level module.

Even at the normal level adventure, I'm not sure Scyulla could defeat her father in single combat for redemption. unless her redemption was to die at her fathers hands to save the party. A basic, standard Nycaloth is powerful to begin with. Now add class levels to his profile and Ka-pow... you have a CR 20 Nycaloth minimum. It's that kind of horror that helped Myth Drannor fall before the elven crusade. Even the legendary elven warrior Starbrow was slain in combat fighting a Nycaloth during the fall of that city.

Just saying that not every demon or devil or Nycaloth is standard black and white stats. Most of the more prominent ones have class levels in something. A Nycaloth is a Nycaloth... but then add 10 levels of fighter or sorcerer to a particular prominent Nycaloth and you have a denizen of the lower planes that Scyllua cannot hope to defeat herself.

It would make a great redemption arc if she helped the PC's to slay her father, or die doing so. But she couldn't slay him herself unless the DM was sleeping. lol.

Scyllua also defeat Arbarax, a Pit Fiend, CR 20. I assume she had help from Fzoul and getting rid of Arbarax and bringing Scyllua under his wing was all a part of the plan. But she defeated a put fiend none the less.

Edited by - rangerstranger on 24 Sep 2019 22:45:56
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Senior Scribe

961 Posts

Posted - 25 Sep 2019 :  02:52:52  Show Profile Send LordofBones a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Novels are independent of game stats. That's how pit fiend killer, Scyllua Dark hope has a Str of 13 and an attack roll that will never hit a typical pit fiend AC.
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Copper Elven Vampire
Senior Scribe

596 Posts

Posted - 27 Sep 2019 :  21:47:43  Show Profile Send Copper Elven Vampire a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by LordofBones

I'm fairly certain, however, that Abraxis is really Abraxas, who's a different demon Prince with no ties to Grazzt.

You are correct. Sorry, I was thinking Thraxxia (sp), whom I had read somewhere was a union of Grazzt and a monk female and transcended into a female Balor.
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Master of Realmslore

1683 Posts

Posted - 22 Oct 2019 :  20:20:58  Show Profile  Visit Icelander's Homepage Send Icelander a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Does anyone have a rough idea of where Scyllua Darkhope was, month by month, tenday by tenday, in the years 1368-1375 DR?

There are mentions in numerous novels and sourcebooks. Can we get any kind of unified timeline, establishing rough geographic position at certain times and what kind of resources she commanded at that time?

My PCs have from 1371-1373 DR run into knights in her service in Calaunt, Scardale, Yhaunn and Ravens Bluff, as well as heard all sorts of rumours, primarily that she is the reightful heir of Scardale. Her knights seem willing to provide the first duty of a liege lord, protection.

I'd like to establish how much time she has to spend entangled in Zhentarim-wide schemes with dubious success rates and how much time and resources she can free up for her legitimate bid for rulership of at least one Dale.

Za uspiekh nashevo beznadiozhnovo diela!

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