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Copper Elven Vampire
Senior Scribe

596 Posts

Posted - 10 Sep 2019 :  23:45:54  Show Profile Send Copper Elven Vampire a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
The Laughing Hand; (Specialty Cleric of Erevan Ilesere}

Laughing Hands are the Sacred fists of the church of Erevan Ilesere. They establish independent organizations found within many temples of the trickster. Their ascetic members have turned their divine magic inward, bringing their bodies and wills into harmony.

Laughing Hands have forsworn the use of weapons and heavy armor. They consider their bodies and minds gifts from their deity, and they believe that not developing those gifts to their fullest potential is a dogmatic problem. Spellcasting does not dishonor them or their deity, provided the sacred fist casts spells with a range of touch. Sacred fists are strong in faith, will, and body. Clerics are excellent candidates for sacred fists orders. Paladins may also choose to join them, but are seldom comfortable surrendering the trappings of their calling. Fighters, rogues, bards, and even ex-monks may make good candidates, provided they have enough levels in a class that grants divine spells. Druids often find the class's combat skills useful, as do sorcerers and wizards who have some levels as a cleric or other source of divine spells.

NPC sacred fists are as varied as their faiths. In general, they travel the land individually, lending their skills to those who need protection or assistance. While a sacred fist from a temple of Pelor might humbly assist almost anyone who asked, one from Erythnul's faith might help only when it gains him something. Sacred fists from the temple of Kord tend to be genial brawlers, humble in victory and gracious in defeat. All sacred fists seek challenges that allow them to further develop their fighting skills.

Requirements
To qualify to become a Sacred Fist, a character must fulfill all the following criteria:

Skills: Knowledge (religion) 8 ranks, Spellcraft 8 ranks.
Feats: Combat Reflexes, Improved Unarmed Strike, Stunning Fist.
Base Attack Bonus: +4.
Spells: Ability to cast 1st-level divine spells.
Domains: Must have the Trickery and Elf domains.

Class Skills
The sacred fist's class skills are Balance, Concentration, Escape Artist, Heal, Jump, Profession, and Tumble.

Skill Points at Each Level: 6 + Int modifier.

Class Features

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Sacred fists gain no proficiency with any weapons, armor, or shields.

Spells per Day/Spells Known: When a new sacred fist level is gained, the character gains new spells per day (and spells known, if applicable) as if he had also gained a level in whatever divine spellcasting class he possessed before he added the prestige class. He does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained (improved chance of controlling or rebuking undead, wild shape ability, and so on). This essentially means that he adds the level of sacred fist to the level of whatever other spellcasting class the character has, then determines spells per day accordingly.

If a character had more than one spellcasting class in which he could cast divine spells before he became a sacred fist, the player must decide which class to assign each level of sacred fi st for the purpose of determining spells per day and spells known.

AC Bonus (Ex): At 1st level, a sacred fist is highly trained at dodging blows, and he has a sixth sense that lets him avoid even unanticipated attacks. When unencumbered and wearing light or no armor, a sacred fist gains a +1 bonus to his AC. This bonus increases to +2 at 5th level and to +3 at 10th. This bonus to AC applies even against touch attacks or when the sacred fist is flat-footed. He loses the bonus when he is immobilized or helpless, when he wears any armor heavier than light armor, when he carries a shield, or when he carries a medium or heavy load.

Unarmed Fighting (Ex): At 1st level, a sacred fist is highly trained in fighting unarmed, giving him considerable advantages when doing so. A sacred fist's attacks may be with either fist interchangeably or even with elbows, knees, and feet. There is no such thing as an off-hand attack for a sacred fist striking unarmed. He may choose to deal either subdual or normal damage with his attack. He deals more damage than normal, as summarized on the table below.

Size of Sacred Fist:
Level	Small	Medium-size or larger
1st	1d4	1d6
5th	1d6	1d8
8th	1d8	1d10
10th	1d10	1d12


Flurry Attack (Ex): At 1st level, the sacred fist may strike with a flurry of blows at the expense of accuracy. When doing so, he may make one extra attack in a round at his highest base attack, but this attack and each other attack made that round suffer a -2 penalty apiece. This penalty applies for 1 round, so it affects attacks of opportunity the sacred fist might make before his next action. The sacred fist must use the full attack action to strike with a flurry of blows.

Puissant Fists (Su): At 1st level, a sacred fist ignores some damage resistance. At 1st level, treat his strikes as +1 weapons for the purposes of damage resistance. Starting at 3rd level, treat his strikes as +2 weapons for that purpose. Starting at 6th level, treat them as +3 weapons, and at 9th level, treat them as +4 weapons. This ability does not change the sacred fist's chance to hit or the damage dealt.

Extra Domain: At 2nd level, upon adopting the sacred fist class, the character chooses one extra domain from his deity's list.

Evasion (Ex): At 2nd level, a sacred fist can dodge and avoid even magical and unusual attacks with great agility. If a sacred fist makes a successful Reflex saving throw against an attack that normally inflicts half damage on a successful save (such as a red dragon's fiery breath or a fireball spell), the sacred fist instead suffers no damage. Evasion can only be used if the sacred fist is wearing light armor or no armor.

Combat Casting (Ex): At 2nd level, a sacred fist gains this feat as a bonus feat.

Fast Movement (Ex): At 3rd level, a sacred fist gains an enhancement bonus to his speed. Your land speed is faster than the norm for a creature your size by 10 to 30 feet depending on your level. A sacred fist in medium or heavy armor or carrying a medium or heavy load loses this extra speed.

Uncanny Dodge (Ex): Starting at 3rd level, a sacred fist gains the ability to react to danger before his senses would normally allow him to do so. He retains his Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) regardless of being caught flat-footed or struck by an invisible attacker. (He still loses his Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized.)

At 5th level, the sacred fist can no longer be flanked, since he can react to opponents on opposite sides of his as easily as he can react to a single attacker. This defense denies other characters the ability to use flank attacks to sneak attack him. The exception to this defense is that another character at least four levels higher than the character can flank him (and thus sneak attack him, if a rogue). Uncanny dodge can only be used if the sacred fist is wearing light armor or no armor.

Blindsight (Ex): This ability, gained at 3rd level, grants sensitivity to vibrations, scent, and acute hearing so that the sacred fist maneuvers and fights as well as a sighted creature. His senses extend in a 30-foot radius. Invisibility and darkness are irrelevant, though he still can't discern ethereal beings. Sacred fists do not need to make Spot or Listen checks to notice creatures within range.

Sacred Flame (Sp): At 5th level, a sacred fist may use a standard action to invoke sacred flames around his hands and feet. Instead of normal damage, a successful attack with these sacred flames deals damage as follows: 1d6 + Wisdom modifier, + sacred fist class level. At least half the damage is fire damage, and the rest is sacred energy (and thus not subject to effects that reduce fire damage).

A sacred flame attack may be combined with a flurry attack.

No Shadow Blows (Ex): Starting at 8th level, a sacred fist may add her Wisdom modifier to both attack and damage rolls. Also, for purposes of countering damage reduction, his unarmed blows are considered magic weapons with an enhancement bonus equal to his Wisdom bonus, and this bonus is cumulative with that of puissant fists. The sacred fist's mind, body, and will are forged into one instrument.

Inner Armor (Ex): At 10th level, a sacred fist's inner tranquility protects him from external threats. He may invoke a +4 sacred bonus to AC, a +4 sacred bonus on all saves, and spell resistance 25 for a number of rounds equal to his Wisdom modifier. He may use inner armor twice a day and the rounds need not be consecutive.



Level	BAB	Fort	Ref	Will	Special	  AC Bonus	Unarmored Speed	    Spellcasting
1st	+1	+2	+2	+0	Unarmed damage	+1	+0 ft.	+1 level of existing divine spellcasting class
2nd	+2	+3	+3	+0		+1	+0 ft.	+1 level of existing divine spellcasting class
3rd	+3	+3	+3	+1		+1	+10 ft.	+1 level of existing divine spellcasting class
4th	+4	+4	+4	+1	Sacred flames 1/day	+1	+10 ft.	
5th	+5	+4	+4	+1		+2	+10 ft.	+1 level of existing divine spellcasting class
6th	+6	+5	+5	+2	Blindsense 10 ft.	+2	+20 ft.	+1 level of existing divine spellcasting class
7th	+7	+5	+5	+2		+2	+20 ft.	+1 level of existing divine spellcasting class
8th	+8	+6	+6	+2	Sacred flames 2/day	+2	+30 ft.	
9th	+9	+6	+6	+3		+2	+30 ft.	+1 level of existing divine spellcasting class
10th	+10	+7	+7	+3	Inner armor	+3	+30 ft.	+1 level of existing divine spellcasting class


(NOT DONE YET.) Under construction.

Any and all help wanted.

Edited by - Copper Elven Vampire on 13 Sep 2019 05:05:33

LordofBones
Senior Scribe

964 Posts

Posted - 11 Sep 2019 :  15:32:39  Show Profile Send LordofBones a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Maybe it's not such a good idea to copy-paste an entire prestige class, edit it a little, and try to pass it off as your own.

Notably, this is the 3.5e variant with the 3e abilities added back, and curiously keeping the 3e class skills. Why does a full caster progression class not have Spellcraft as a class skill?
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Copper Elven Vampire
Senior Scribe

596 Posts

Posted - 11 Sep 2019 :  16:41:48  Show Profile Send Copper Elven Vampire a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones

Maybe it's not such a good idea to copy-paste an entire prestige class, edit it a little, and try to pass it off as your own.

Notably, this is the 3.5e variant with the 3e abilities added back, and curiously keeping the 3e class skills. Why does a full caster progression class not have Spellcraft as a class skill?


Firstly, I didn't try to pass it off as my own, and secondly, I can do whatever I want with my own D&D world, thank you very much.

Yes I'm combining the 3 and 3.5 ed's together and that is perfectly fine, and like I said... it's under construction. You NEVER have anything positive to say to me, so you are obviously self-restricted by black and white D&D.
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_Jarlaxle_
Senior Scribe

Germany
549 Posts

Posted - 11 Sep 2019 :  18:46:29  Show Profile Send _Jarlaxle_ a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm wondering for a longer time now why you keep posting this stuff
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
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USA
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Posted - 11 Sep 2019 :  21:42:46  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Play nice, folks. We have someone asking for for constructive criticism; let's keep the discussion there, please.

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Seethyr
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Posted - 11 Sep 2019 :  22:39:28  Show Profile  Visit Seethyr's Homepage Send Seethyr a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Im going to seem like a real noob here, but where is the original that this is based off of from? Im interested in the class and seeing it updated to 5e.

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Copper Elven Vampire
Senior Scribe

596 Posts

Posted - 12 Sep 2019 :  01:01:16  Show Profile Send Copper Elven Vampire a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Seethyr

Im going to seem like a real noob here, but where is the original that this is based off of from? Im interested in the class and seeing it updated to 5e.

Complete Divine accessory.
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Diffan
Great Reader

USA
3690 Posts

Posted - 12 Sep 2019 :  01:13:06  Show Profile Send Diffan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Seethyr

Im going to seem like a real noob here, but where is the original that this is based off of from? Im interested in the class and seeing it updated to 5e.



Initially it was in Defenders of the Faith, a 3.0 supplement. It was updated in Complete Divine for 3.5

4E Realms = Great Taste, Less Filling.

"If WotC were to put out a box of free money, people would still complain how it was folded."
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Seethyr
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USA
663 Posts

Posted - 12 Sep 2019 :  01:47:56  Show Profile  Visit Seethyr's Homepage Send Seethyr a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thanks so much. CEV, if I work this out for 5e, would you mind me adding an addendum to your version? Or should I start a new thread?

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LordofBones
Senior Scribe

964 Posts

Posted - 12 Sep 2019 :  11:55:26  Show Profile Send LordofBones a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Copper Elven Vampire

quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones

Maybe it's not such a good idea to copy-paste an entire prestige class, edit it a little, and try to pass it off as your own.

Notably, this is the 3.5e variant with the 3e abilities added back, and curiously keeping the 3e class skills. Why does a full caster progression class not have Spellcraft as a class skill?


Firstly, I didn't try to pass it off as my own, and secondly, I can do whatever I want with my own D&D world, thank you very much.

Yes I'm combining the 3 and 3.5 ed's together and that is perfectly fine, and like I said... it's under construction. You NEVER have anything positive to say to me, so you are obviously self-restricted by black and white D&D.



The first thing that I noticed is that this caster progression class doesn't have Spellcraft as a class skill.

The second thing I noticed is that of this post the progression chart is a direct copy paste of the 3.5e sacred fist chart.

The only change you've made thus far is to errata the spells per day of the class to the 3.5e version.

Everything else is word for word from the 3e class.

Seriously, this isn't black and white D&d. This is just me pointing out you could have escaped the hassle by fully revising the class before posting it. The flavor text also references Greyhawk deities.

As if this current post, your entire post can just be summarized thusly.

Sacred Fist: As page x of Defenders of the Faith, but replace the text under Spells/Day with the following:

When a new sacred fist level is gained, the character gains new spells per day (and spells known, if applicable) as if he had also gained a level in whatever divine spellcasting class he possessed before he added the prestige class. He does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained (improved chance of controlling or rebuking undead, wild shape ability, and so on). This essentially means that he adds the level of sacred fist to the level of whatever other spellcasting class the character has, then determines spells per day accordingly.

If a character had more than one spellcasting class in which he could cast divine spells before he became a sacred fist, the player must decide which class to assign each level of sacred fi st for the purpose of determining spells per day and spells known.

I can't give constructive criticism because this is a direct copy paste of a WoTC class.
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Diffan
Great Reader

USA
3690 Posts

Posted - 12 Sep 2019 :  14:35:49  Show Profile Send Diffan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Seethyr

Thanks so much. CEV, if I work this out for 5e, would you mind me adding an addendum to your version? Or should I start a new thread?



Honestly, how many Sacred Fist threads do we really need?

For 5e, I think emulating - to a degree - the Way of the Sun Soul path in Xanathar's Guide to Everything and Sword Coast Adventure's Guide as a simple stop-game measure. They're very similar in terms of sun/flashy fist magic with a divine bent to them. Though it does mean you'll probably worship some Sun deity like Lathander, Amaunator, or Ra.

For a completely unique version, taking some ideas from the Way of Shadows might be better suited since they do get spells added to their abilities by spending Ki. Shadow Arts could be converted to different spells granted by a Domain - chosen when you select the Monastic Tradition. Example might be a Sacred Fist of Tyr (War domain) gets divine favor, shield of faith, spiritual weapon but a Sacred Fist of Talos (Tempest Domain) gets [i]fog cloud, thunderwave, gust of wind, shatter). Things like that.

For the second feature instead of Shadow Step, maybe they can access one element of their domain's Channel Divinity ability?

The last two are a bit trickier. I'd hate to give these Monks basically all the cool stuff a Cleric gets in terms of features AND Monk abilities, but aside from just giving them spells on a limited basis (like the Eldritch Knight) I'm coming up blank. Divine Strikes (+1d8 to weapon attacks that are either Radiant - if good or Necrotic - if evil) might work? It also fits the theme of the Sacred Fist feature.

4E Realms = Great Taste, Less Filling.

"If WotC were to put out a box of free money, people would still complain how it was folded."
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Copper Elven Vampire
Senior Scribe

596 Posts

Posted - 12 Sep 2019 :  15:34:54  Show Profile Send Copper Elven Vampire a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Seethyr

Thanks so much. CEV, if I work this out for 5e, would you mind me adding an addendum to your version? Or should I start a new thread?



Sure, you can add an addendum to this thread as it would be fun to compare. :)
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TomCosta
Forgotten Realms Designer

USA
645 Posts

Posted - 13 Sep 2019 :  00:21:55  Show Profile Send TomCosta a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I included a 5E version in Forgotten Characters of the Realms on DM's Guild FWIW.
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Copper Elven Vampire
Senior Scribe

596 Posts

Posted - 13 Sep 2019 :  03:13:40  Show Profile Send Copper Elven Vampire a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by TomCosta

I included a 5E version in Forgotten Characters of the Realms on DM's Guild FWIW.



Can you post a link possibly Tom?

Guys, remember... this is a proxy, as I'm moving my family this weekend and I cannot really turn this into the specialized PRC I want. Maybe by bed time I'll finish this. As of now it's a proxy of 3 and 3.5 combined without restrictions.

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TomCosta
Forgotten Realms Designer

USA
645 Posts

Posted - 14 Sep 2019 :  12:58:06  Show Profile Send TomCosta a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Sure, here's the link to Forgotten Characters of the Realms, https://www.dmsguild.com/product/207031/Forgotten-Characters-of-the-Realms?term=forgotten+characters+of+th+. You can see the entire table of contents in the full size preview. There is some lore, but it is mostly character options.
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TomCosta
Forgotten Realms Designer

USA
645 Posts

Posted - 14 Sep 2019 :  13:01:07  Show Profile Send TomCosta a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Also, I combined it a bit with the 2E monk from Faiths and Avatars, since the 3E version was more numbers based rather than feature based (that is few features with lots of numerical increases, which 5E doesn't do as much). I also allowed for different kinds of damage from the sacred fist depending on the faith -- so fire for Amaunator, necromantic for Jergal, etc. I think I captured every god that has been identified as having monks in 2E or 3E.
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Copper Elven Vampire
Senior Scribe

596 Posts

Posted - 14 Sep 2019 :  19:34:35  Show Profile Send Copper Elven Vampire a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by TomCosta

Also, I combined it a bit with the 2E monk from Faiths and Avatars, since the 3E version was more numbers based rather than feature based (that is few features with lots of numerical increases, which 5E doesn't do as much). I also allowed for different kinds of damage from the sacred fist depending on the faith -- so fire for Amaunator, necromantic for Jergal, etc. I think I captured every god that has been identified as having monks in 2E or 3E.



I love it!! :)

Now I do understand that Erevan Ilesere has never had any mention of Monks being within his ranks of followers, but if Shar can have Monks of the Dark Moon, then I see no reason that Erevan couldn't have Monks of the Laughing Hand or whatever.

I can totally see a CN monk of Erevan, being a pure individual of choas in dogma, creed, technique, and personality. Imagine a "Drunken Master" type monk in service to the Trickster. I would assume he would cause Anarchic damage with fists, knees, legs and feet. Maybe his powers and abilities depend on how much Fey Wine he has consumed? Maybe a random polymorph effect on a critical strike? You punch a Gnoll in the face and they suddenly turn into a Ogre-Mage or a common canine perhaps?

Just my 2 Zhents, lol. (cents... get it? lol.)
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