Candlekeep Forum
Candlekeep Forum
Home | Profile | Register | Active Topics | Active Polls | Members | Private Messages | Search | FAQ
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

 All Forums
 Forgotten Realms Journals
 Running the Realms
 Book of the World and Draconomicon
 New Topic  New Poll New Poll
 Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  

Qilintha
Seeker

37 Posts

Posted - 25 Aug 2019 :  18:32:43  Show Profile Send Qilintha a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
Hello everyone, I am looking for advice, I was rereading the Draconomicon 2ed and there are mentioned those two books. The first is a creation myth about how Asgaroth created the chromatic dragons and so on. The second one instead is an artifact, a spellbook with lot of interesting spells. Although their history is different first one was found in Asram, second one in Amn much later... it's clear they're connected, according to the sourcebook they're written in the same language, they're even made in a similar way by metallic pages.

What could be their history?...from Draconomicon "The Book of the World" was used as core of a religious cult probably humanoid...about the Draconomicon...nothing until 1278 in Amn...Could there be more books like those two?
I was thinking of a campaign revolving around those books, maybe a revamped version of the cult that wrote those books...maybe guided by an red halfdragon priest of Asgorath ( that could be a version of Tiamat or Io)...and they want to retrieve the books. Thank you for your help, any idea is appreciated ^^

Ayrik
Great Reader

Canada
6836 Posts

Posted - 07 Sep 2019 :  14:14:54  Show Profile Send Ayrik a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The Cult of the Dragon has a sacred tome - or rather, each Cult cell has a slightly different copy of it - which loosely fits the description, goes by various names, is typically attributed to Sammaster, and has some different content.

And the famous Nether Scrolls are golden metallic sheets. Probably created (at least in part) by the Sarrukh or by their (draconic) servitor races.

Planescape Guide to Hell contains a cosmic creation myth about the World Serpent, Jazirian and Asmodeus, which has some vaguely draconic qualities. The various PHBR race splatbooks offer a selection of other racial creation myths. I consider them apocryphal (because they're mutually incompatible, impossible, unprovable, metaphorical and mythological) but still interesting background.

[/Ayrik]
Go to Top of Page

Qilintha
Seeker

37 Posts

Posted - 12 Sep 2019 :  19:25:39  Show Profile Send Qilintha a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well I think the sacred tome from the Cult of the Dragon is actually the Draconomicon ( at least allegedly, this is what everyone thinks) but no definite proof of it and probably the other cells have nonmagical more recent copies made by Sammaster of the same book. I'll check the Planescape Guide to Hell for further ideas for other books of this mysterious cult. Thanks Ayrik :)
Go to Top of Page

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
4672 Posts

Posted - 12 Sep 2019 :  20:09:57  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I can tell you what i did with the Book of the World, its completely non canon but linked to lots of canon things.

First is i merged the Book of the World with another book called the Book of Dragons (can't remember which source i got it from)

The Book of the World is a creation myth about dragons from the point of view of a chromatic dragon which seems to be completely impossible.

The Book of Dragons is an item supposedly penned by Ioulaum that contained 26 stories about dragons which read in full would release a dragon from stasis.

So trying to figure out why two such wildly impractical books existed i merged the myths and then came up with a reason for both to exist. The Book of the World is merely one chapter of the Book of Dragons which Khelben Arunsun separated into individual works and hid throughout Faerun to try and hide the secrets it contained.

So why would Ioulaum create a book that imprisons dragons from over 4000 years ago. I figured the Ioulaum was attempting to find information about something and he trapped these dragons to interrogate later (but lost interest as other things caught his attention). The event in particular he was researching was in -3500 DR when a group of dragons attempted to blast the King Killer Star using a powerful ritual centred on the Hill of Lost Gods outside Westgate.

Each of the dragons imprisoned in the book were involved in or related to a dragon that took part in the ritual. Sammaster found the book of the world around 1250 when he returned and was researching it in his extradimensional base of Harrowsmouth when his own cultists betrayed him to the Harpers.

It was all part of my attempt to redo the Dracorage in a way that wasnt dependent entirely on mcguffins and deus ex machina that were previously unknown to us as novels always do.


Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions Candlekeep Archive
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 1
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 2
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 3
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 4
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 5
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 6
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 7
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 8
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 9

Alternate Realms Site
Go to Top of Page

Qilintha
Seeker

37 Posts

Posted - 13 Sep 2019 :  00:45:45  Show Profile Send Qilintha a Private Message  Reply with Quote
That's extremely interesting, thanks for sharing Gary! I'll look for this Book of Dragons on the net as it honestly picked my interest.

I just noticed something odd about the Draconomicon, I thought that it was stolen by Sammaster in 1311 because it held the notions on how to make dracoliches...but Sammaster completed the Tome of the Dragon ( his book about everything concerned how to make dracoliches) four hundreds years before that...so somehow he already knew how to turn someone in a dracolich ( maybe he learnt that from another book of that cult?). Sooo...who currently has the Draconomicon is a mistery.

At the moment, my idea is to connect this to a cult of Kalzareinad (Dragon Demigod of draconic magic, especially his portfolio concerns magic used in the most reckless way possible), that want to collect those books for the draconic spells stored in there. A crazy prophecy that says that if enough draconic magic is cast...devoted to Kalzareinad, he can gain enough powers to severe the link that binds Dragons to Toril,alloowing them to planeshift freely.

Very few dragons know how to plane shift, and even when they do, they lose a lot of their abilities(Spell resistance, saving throw bonuses, all innate abilities) and all dragons fear plane shifting by instinct.

This is my idea, maybe I can relate this Book of Dragons to an original first cult that Ioulam stopped...

If anyone knows the source for this Book of Dragons, it'd be very much appreciated ^^

Sooo....this cult made by dragons in human forms, halfdragons...human slaves, maybe some sages curious about the books not knowing the intent of the cult, are collecting those tomes all around Faerun.

There is also a prophecy from Alaundo that seems to imply to imply some kind of transcendence a massive change in the place in the Grand Scheme. It could be how this crazy cult interpreted this prophecy.
Go to Top of Page

Zeromaru X
Master of Realmslore

Colombia
1363 Posts

Posted - 15 Sep 2019 :  19:41:57  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Qilintha

I just noticed something odd about the Draconomicon, I thought that it was stolen by Sammaster in 1311 because it held the notions on how to make dracoliches...but Sammaster completed the Tome of the Dragon ( his book about everything concerned how to make dracoliches) four hundreds years before that...so somehow he already knew how to turn someone in a dracolich ( maybe he learnt that from another book of that cult?). Sooo...who currently has the Draconomicon is a mistery.



There are dracoliches who have existed way before Sammaster created his methods (for instance, Melauthaur, the ruler of Malebrauth, a draconic empire from Abeir, or Daelfyrthimachian, a dracolich who plagued Tymanchebar at least a century before Sammaster created his first dracolich). Which means that dracolichdom is something old in the Realms, and Sammaster just rediscovered a method.

I guess Sammaster knew about this and was studying the older methods of dracolichdom.

Long ago, in the distant past, they fell into decay. The philosopher’s path... The river of glory... Even the saints resting in the darkness rise up without response and block the way...

Edited by - Zeromaru X on 15 Sep 2019 19:46:43
Go to Top of Page

Qilintha
Seeker

37 Posts

Posted - 15 Sep 2019 :  21:21:36  Show Profile Send Qilintha a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I imagined that there were dracoliches before Sammaster, didn't know the specific example as I have little material of 4-5 ed yet...but this should allow even more for the Draconomicon to be in the hands of someone else besides the Cult of Dragon , besides what everyone is thinking. Thanks Zeromaru
Go to Top of Page

Ayrik
Great Reader

Canada
6836 Posts

Posted - 15 Sep 2019 :  22:21:59  Show Profile Send Ayrik a Private Message  Reply with Quote
There were dracoliches before Sammaster.

Extremely rare. Because dragons apparently find undeath abhorrent and generally look forward to their expected afterlife.
But then, the same can all be said about humans. Who have found a variety of different ways to become lich.

[/Ayrik]
Go to Top of Page

Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
32289 Posts

Posted - 16 Sep 2019 :  02:18:08  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
We know of at least one dracolich that Sammy had nothing to do with... The name escapes me, but it was one that Talos turned into a dracolich. It was in the Druidhome books.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Editor and scribe for The Candlekeep Compendium

I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
Go to Top of Page

sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
8207 Posts

Posted - 16 Sep 2019 :  02:27:39  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Which maybe begs to question... did these books come from Abeir in some kind of transfer a few centuries prior to the spellplague? Did the dracolichdom process even come here from Abeir, since there are old dracoliches in Abeir documented, and said process have to be "modified" for weave magics and thus worked through by say Sammaster (or whoever created the first... I'd have to look).

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
Go to Top of Page

Zeromaru X
Master of Realmslore

Colombia
1363 Posts

Posted - 16 Sep 2019 :  19:09:53  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
My guess is that dracolichdom may have been created in the Time of Dragons, when Abeir and Toril were still connected, as it seems the dragons of the age maintained communication despite the worlds being separated (I asked Ed about this, and he confirmed it; the communication between worlds in this age, just to be clear).

Long ago, in the distant past, they fell into decay. The philosopher’s path... The river of glory... Even the saints resting in the darkness rise up without response and block the way...

Edited by - Zeromaru X on 16 Sep 2019 19:11:19
Go to Top of Page

Iahn Qoyllor
Seeker

United Kingdom
44 Posts

Posted - 17 Sep 2019 :  13:14:52  Show Profile Send Iahn Qoyllor a Private Message  Reply with Quote
That dracolich was Gotha who was a an Ancient Red, WR.
Go to Top of Page

LordofBones
Senior Scribe

937 Posts

Posted - 17 Sep 2019 :  14:34:31  Show Profile Send LordofBones a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Falazure, the dragon god of undeath, is as old as Bahamut and Tiamat, and may even be almost as old as Io, so draconic undeath has always existed, one way or the other. It's entirely likely the Night Dragon had a claw in nudging Sammaster into becoming what he is today.
Go to Top of Page

Qilintha
Seeker

37 Posts

Posted - 18 Sep 2019 :  23:14:26  Show Profile Send Qilintha a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I agree on undead dragons always existing and that Falazure helped Sammaster somehow....Returning on topic:Any ideas of similar books besides the Book of the World and Draconomicon? What could they be about? I want my PC to race to collect them before the cult. So I'd like to introduce at least a third book.
Go to Top of Page
  Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
 New Topic  New Poll New Poll
 Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Jump To:
Candlekeep Forum © 1999-2019 Candlekeep.com Go To Top Of Page
Snitz Forums 2000