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 Calimshan in 5e
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MTBlack
Acolyte

6 Posts

Posted - 21 Aug 2019 :  11:03:36  Show Profile Send MTBlack a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
I'm trying to understand what has happened in Calimshan after the Second Era of Skyfire. According to the 4e Campaign Guide (circa 1479), the elemental lords Calim and Memnon were expelled from the Realms, however:

"Their lieutenants and foot soldiers remain in Calimshan, and continue
a bloody war based on little more than opposing philosophies... The headquarters of the warring genasi factions are the cities of Memnon and Calimport. The human population of both cities
serves as slaves and as fodder in the constant battles.
Only the city of Almraiven, still rich in magic and well
defended, remains under human control."

In Sword Coast Adventurers Guide (circa 1490):

"After years of struggling beneath their genasi masters, human slaves arose to follow a Chosen of Ilmater, at first using nonviolent resistance, and then erupting in full rebellion following his disappearance. They overthrew the genie lords of Calimport and Memnon, casting the remaining genies out of the cities and back to their elemental homes or into the depths of the deserts.

Much of Calimshan is a chaotic place dominated by wealth, political influence, and personal power. Many pray for the return of the Chosen and the completion of his work. Others are learning to live together without genie masters, and to grudgingly accept the remaining genasi among them."

Do we have any more details about this chosen of Ilmater and the human revolt? Is it mentioned in the novels anywhere? Any other possible sources of information?

TomCosta
Forgotten Realms Designer

USA
636 Posts

Posted - 23 Aug 2019 :  01:35:13  Show Profile Send TomCosta a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Dead in Thay (the module) includes one of the chosen of Ilmater, Kieren, who is captured by the Red Wizards. It's unclear if this is the same dude, but perhaps not as that module seems to suggest there were many chosen of the gods and not just one per god (as was perhaps the case prior to 4E with the notable exception of Mystra).
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
32288 Posts

Posted - 23 Aug 2019 :  02:10:08  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The Sundering novels had so dang many Chosen that the Shades were rounding them up and putting them in *multiple* prison camps.

The Chosen were very weak, though -- as evidenced by the fact that large numbers of them were imprisoned together and couldn't do a thing about it. Most of the so-called Chosen just had one minor, possibly useless ability -- like one that left a trail of flowers wherever they walked.

If there was an explanation for why the deities began mass-producing nearly useless Chosen, I missed it.

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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
8205 Posts

Posted - 23 Aug 2019 :  15:56:22  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

The Sundering novels had so dang many Chosen that the Shades were rounding them up and putting them in *multiple* prison camps.

The Chosen were very weak, though -- as evidenced by the fact that large numbers of them were imprisoned together and couldn't do a thing about it. Most of the so-called Chosen just had one minor, possibly useless ability -- like one that left a trail of flowers wherever they walked.

If there was an explanation for why the deities began mass-producing nearly useless Chosen, I missed it.



Perhaps the deities who were "returning" essentially were having to "ride" in a mortal host (without subsuming them entirely) as a decree of Ao…. so similar to the avatar versions during the ToT, but even less powerful. When Ao did this, perhaps he forced all existing deities to do the same thing (maybe a messup by him, a requirement of the ritual to bring all these deities back to life, or some other thing). This would somewhat fit with the actions we see with Dumuzi to a degree in the novels in Unther/Tymanther. Maybe those who didn't have ANY lesser avatar survive by the end weren't allowed to come back at all.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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_Jarlaxle_
Senior Scribe

Germany
547 Posts

Posted - 26 Aug 2019 :  12:46:01  Show Profile Send _Jarlaxle_ a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I could imagine, that deities can't just pop out choosen with godlike powers as they like. Because if they could we would have armies of choosen with superpowers fighting each other. There have to be some rules to it we don't know. So we have a few choosen with really strong powers.

On the other hand gods plan for the long run and have uncountable plots running to further their goals. For this they create weaker choosen that just get this or that minor power which might seem useless but will be helpfull a very specific situation the god is planning for.

Also keep in mind that many of those imprisoned choosen where just developing their powers or where choosen but no powers had developed yet. Still each of them had a tiny little bit of the god that chose them inside.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
32288 Posts

Posted - 26 Aug 2019 :  23:13:24  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by _Jarlaxle_

I could imagine, that deities can't just pop out choosen with godlike powers as they like. Because if they could we would have armies of choosen with superpowers fighting each other. There have to be some rules to it we don't know. So we have a few choosen with really strong powers.

On the other hand gods plan for the long run and have uncountable plots running to further their goals. For this they create weaker choosen that just get this or that minor power which might seem useless but will be helpfull a very specific situation the god is planning for.

Also keep in mind that many of those imprisoned choosen where just developing their powers or where choosen but no powers had developed yet. Still each of them had a tiny little bit of the god that chose them inside.



Well, yeah, but we went from maybe two score Chosen of all deities in the entire setting, ranging in power from "hey that's a nifty ability" to "practically a demipower" -- and then, after this was a problem in the eyes of the setting writers, then there are literally hundreds of Chosen.

And apparently the Shades had some Detect Chosen spell with an insane range that they could use to round them up.

And as with so much else, there was no explanation for why there were suddenly all these Chosen, or why the Shades were rounding them up, or why they were apparently unconcerned about them getting more powerful, or what happened to them after the Sundering was over and done with.

It was, as with so much else that WotC has done, a plot thread that just came out of nowhere and disappeared back into nowhere just as quickly.

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Zeromaru X
Master of Realmslore

Colombia
1363 Posts

Posted - 26 Aug 2019 :  23:55:15  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
AFAIK, the gods wanted to get enough power to be as high as possible in divine rankings in Ao's new Tablets of Fate. For this, they needed a lot of faithful. That's why they mass-produced Chosen with cheap abilities. They only wanted to impress mortals not to have a super army. That's why, when Asmodeus wanted to use a lot of Chosen to get his own divine spark, he found that no matter how many Chosen the Netherese could get, their divine powers weren't enough to elevate him to demigod. And that's also why all these Chosen lost their powers once the Second Sundering came to an end.

There where a few notable Chosen with formidable abilities during this time (usually, the novels' protagonists), but they were Chosen for other more specific purposes, and were different than the mass-produced ones.

Long ago, in the distant past, they fell into decay. The philosopher’s path... The river of glory... Even the saints resting in the darkness rise up without response and block the way...

Edited by - Zeromaru X on 26 Aug 2019 23:56:40
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
32288 Posts

Posted - 27 Aug 2019 :  03:44:54  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X

AFAIK, the gods wanted to get enough power to be as high as possible in divine rankings in Ao's new Tablets of Fate. For this, they needed a lot of faithful. That's why they mass-produced Chosen with cheap abilities. They only wanted to impress mortals not to have a super army. That's why, when Asmodeus wanted to use a lot of Chosen to get his own divine spark, he found that no matter how many Chosen the Netherese could get, their divine powers weren't enough to elevate him to demigod. And that's also why all these Chosen lost their powers once the Second Sundering came to an end.

There where a few notable Chosen with formidable abilities during this time (usually, the novels' protagonists), but they were Chosen for other more specific purposes, and were different than the mass-produced ones.



I dunno -- most of those Chosen were far from impressive. Especially in a place like the Realms, where even a journeyman mage can do more impressive things.

It's like a stage magician pulling rabbits out of a hat -- outside of a David Copperfield show.

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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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BrennonGoldeye
Seeker

50 Posts

Posted - 11 Sep 2019 :  15:35:13  Show Profile Send BrennonGoldeye a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I could have sworn I long ago read something about the "True Chosen" Each holding a Ranks worth of the God's power, one of the reasons Mystra had so many was that She HAD to, otherwise Her power would have broken the rules set out by AO. This was why most Gods were wary of making Chosen. I know LEoF has a bit of lore on it.
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