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Richard Cranium
Acolyte

USA
1 Posts

Posted - 21 Jul 2019 :  21:27:27  Show Profile Send Richard Cranium a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
Hello, I have a bard who wants to use message to convince a barbarian that it is his destiny to protect the bard through out his adventures but does not want the barbarian to know that it is him.sending the message How would that play out? Example...in the tavern a bard sees a well equipped halfling (which assumes based on gear is able to handle himself). He sends message to the halfling about it's his destiny to protect the bard at all costs and you are destined for great things together. Besides personal decision to agree with the message or some type of intellectual boundary to force the decision to have the halfling agree how do I play that out? Thanks in advance

sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
9998 Posts

Posted - 21 Jul 2019 :  22:55:58  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
In a world of magic, people hearing voices from nowhere are much less likely to believe "its the word of god" like might happen in our world. I think the bard needs to rethink things. In fact, its more likely to turn another direction with the person thinking this was an attempt at mind control and deciding they need to trounce the person.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas

Edited by - sleyvas on 21 Jul 2019 22:56:59
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xaeyruudh
Master of Realmslore

USA
1853 Posts

Posted - 22 Jul 2019 :  21:45:25  Show Profile  Visit xaeyruudh's Homepage Send xaeyruudh a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I think I agree with sleyvas, but the bard probably doesn't know that he needs to rethink things -- it seems to me like a logical thought process for the bard to have. Also seems right that a barbarian would react poorly to a disembodied voice speaking to him.

Even if the barbarian went along with it, message doesn't have the power of a charm or suggestion so he wouldn't be convinced. He might "play along" if he's in a good mood, but it might just be to identify the source of the sorcery so that his axe/sword can end it.

But that's up to the DM to adjudicate. The bard would probably proceed as you've described.

A charm person or friends spell might work better, for as long as the spell lasts, but if the barbarian realizes he's been manipulated, things are likely to get violent.

A better course of action might be to introduce oneself to the barbarian, offer to pay for his meal and stabling, and if parley goes well then maybe ask about the music of the barbarian's clan/tribe/people. (Make sure you know the right term before you ask the question.) Then a good performance check might increase the barbarian's goodwill toward the bard. Unless the barbarian is from a clan that accepts magic, avoid casting anything on the barbarian and downplay the use of magic in general until the barbarian understands that the bard is honorable and mentally strong -- ie, not corrupted by dark sorcery.

Just my 2 cents. Happy playing!


Edited by - xaeyruudh on 22 Jul 2019 21:47:34
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Ayrik
Great Reader

Canada
7371 Posts

Posted - 03 Aug 2020 :  22:20:00  Show Profile Send Ayrik a Private Message  Reply with Quote
If "the voice of god" spoke to me through a hidden speaker then I'd immediately assume somebody is trying to fool me.

The people of the Realms probably have similar attitudes to magic as we do to technology. Although if they aren't sure they would likely consult a priest or shaman. One they already know and trust.

[/Ayrik]
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Kentinal
Great Reader

4563 Posts

Posted - 03 Aug 2020 :  23:09:54  Show Profile Send Kentinal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Unless "message" got more powerful, it is just a communication spell of whispered messages. That are delivered when finger pointed at them. Well you might fool a total dolt, Wis & Int 3 , I am not sure even all of them would be fooled. Most barbarian are much more Wis and Int then 3.

"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon
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Ayrik
Great Reader

Canada
7371 Posts

Posted - 03 Aug 2020 :  23:18:17  Show Profile Send Ayrik a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Most barbarians - if they're modelled after the traditional fantasy barbarian archetype - are inherently suspicious of magic. Stubborn and self-reliant enough to resist or disbelieve it. They aren't really known for high Wisdom scores but they're still not easy to fool. And they're easily inclined to seek vengeance on those who use magic against them.

As a DM, I'd point all this out to the bard player. He'll immediately ask whether or not his magical deception would work, and whether or not it could be detected or traced back to him. Just tell him there's only one way to find out: try it and see what happens. Chances are he'll back off or delay the attempt until he can access more powerful magics. It's not even an issue if it never happens in game. PCs should all respect each other, but fear will suffice when trust is lacking.

[/Ayrik]

Edited by - Ayrik on 03 Aug 2020 23:22:29
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore

1761 Posts

Posted - 28 Aug 2020 :  16:18:09  Show Profile Send The Arcanamach a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I get the idea of trying to manipulate someone in this manner but I agree with the assessments above. I doubt many would fall for it unless they have low Int/Wis. If you're doing this to a fellow PC then I'd stay away from it unless the player is good with it. Xaeruudh gave the best advice methinks. Win them over through your actions and you just might have a friend for life. Let them learn you deceived them and things could get...dicey.

I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one.
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Brimstone
Great Reader

USA
3195 Posts

Posted - 29 Aug 2020 :  13:51:06  Show Profile Send Brimstone a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Kudos for your name Mr Cranium...

"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep

Edited by - Brimstone on 29 Aug 2020 13:51:25
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cpthero2
Great Reader

USA
2250 Posts

Posted - 07 Nov 2020 :  19:43:49  Show Profile  Visit cpthero2's Homepage Send cpthero2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Acolyte Cranium,

quote:
Hello, I have a bard who wants to use message to convince a barbarian that it is his destiny to protect the bard through out his adventures but does not want the barbarian to know that it is him.sending the message How would that play out? Example...in the tavern a bard sees a well equipped halfling (which assumes based on gear is able to handle himself). He sends message to the halfling about it's his destiny to protect the bard at all costs and you are destined for great things together. Besides personal decision to agree with the message or some type of intellectual boundary to force the decision to have the halfling agree how do I play that out? Thanks in advance


I think what would make more sense is to use RP to handle this. Study the barbarian. Find his interests, modalities of thinking, weaknesses and strengths, and use those to soften the approach. Garner the ear, in a friendly way, of the barbarian. Doing that, and then convincing the barbarian with his likely lesser reasoning skills can allow a legit way of gaining its support, rather than contrived. If deception is used and discovered later, it will not be pretty, haha.

Best regards,




Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring
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