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 Current Size (dimensions) of Suzail
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Didgy
Acolyte

USA
2 Posts

Posted - 17 Jun 2019 :  23:31:35  Show Profile  Send Didgy a Yahoo! Message Send Didgy a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
Hello all. I'm hoping someone might have seen a map with a scale on it for the city of Suzail. I've scoured all the lore I have, but don't have a good gauge on the mileage involved in the city. If anyone's seen it, I'd appreciate it.

Thanks!!

ElfBane
Learned Scribe

USA
81 Posts

Posted - 18 Jun 2019 :  01:27:44  Show Profile Send ElfBane a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Suzail dimensions;

1. West to East (Trading Yards Tower to Market Hall Tower) ~4800Ft.
2. SW to NE (Field Gates to East Gate) ~5000Ft.
3. NW to SE (Horngate to Royal Docks ~5000Ft.
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Didgy
Acolyte

USA
2 Posts

Posted - 18 Jun 2019 :  02:10:07  Show Profile  Send Didgy a Yahoo! Message Send Didgy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ElfBane

Suzail dimensions;

1. West to East (Trading Yards Tower to Market Hall Tower) ~4800Ft.
2. SW to NE (Field Gates to East Gate) ~5000Ft.
3. NW to SE (Horngate to Royal Docks ~5000Ft.



Thank you so much!!

Last words of Regdar Blunthammer: "That's not a dragon. Too green."
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Renin
Learned Scribe

187 Posts

Posted - 18 Jun 2019 :  17:51:36  Show Profile Send Renin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hmm. Those dimensions are all under a mile. Mind you, I don't have a map to look at, but that seems small!
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Kentinal
Great Reader

4377 Posts

Posted - 18 Jun 2019 :  21:06:23  Show Profile Send Kentinal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Renin

Hmm. Those dimensions are all under a mile. Mind you, I don't have a map to look at, but that seems small!



It is small, however could have a population of well over 10,000 people.

I did a few calculations. A family home could be as small as 6 square feet. The dimensions of a square mile is 27,878,400 square feet, room for 46,464 families.

Of course it is not that simple, you need space for business, roads and government building. That however can be addressed in a few ways. Build two story buildings and you can have a business or two families on the same square feet. Also of course not all homes need to be 600 square foot, some could be smaller. The streets could be as narrow as five foot, at least many of them so not taking much space. If you even cut the family number in half you are still looking at over 100,000 people (Families did average five people) and you still have space for government, churches or temples and so on.

Yes it would be dense population, building three stories or more can also help hold that number of people.

There of course is another factor, WotC and TSR often overlooked the minor details of the common people as far as mapping goes. I suspect most city maps never worried about having enough homes for the calculated population. It however should be recognized that at times cities do have very dense populations and sometimes the population count also includes those outside the defined border of a city map line as well.

"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon
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ElfBane
Learned Scribe

USA
81 Posts

Posted - 18 Jun 2019 :  22:51:38  Show Profile Send ElfBane a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Renin

Hmm. Those dimensions are all under a mile. Mind you, I don't have a map to look at, but that seems small!



The map I used is K.W. Fonstad's "The Forgotten Realms Atlas". Be aware that those dimensions are of the walled city. There may be more areas to live around the city,,, and still be considered citizen of Suzail. Also, as in Europe today, it is not unusual to live above your business.

Edited by - ElfBane on 18 Jun 2019 22:54:05
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Renin
Learned Scribe

187 Posts

Posted - 21 Jun 2019 :  17:41:04  Show Profile Send Renin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I guess I just expected Suzail to be a larger city than it is.
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Kentinal
Great Reader

4377 Posts

Posted - 21 Jun 2019 :  19:41:34  Show Profile Send Kentinal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Renin

I guess I just expected Suzail to be a larger city than it is.



Considering the population listed, it would be nicer to be larger. All I was doing was indicating such a dense population was possible.

Sometimes people do crowd together for safety.

Now if sources describing the city state to indicate large open spaces/government buildings or that no building is more then one story tall the land size becomes almost impossible for the population listed. Living space could be smaller, however not by much.

"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon
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Ayrik
Great Reader

Canada
6854 Posts

Posted - 21 Jun 2019 :  22:14:29  Show Profile Send Ayrik a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The city seems bigger than 1 mile across when you look at the maps. (And note "scale in feet" is indicated on the third map.)
And it apparently has a garrison of over 2000 troops. That's a lot of soldiers, a lot of shops and services for soldiers, a lot of food constantly coming in, a lot of waste constantly going out (to the harbour or to the farmlands).

http://www.angelfire.com/md2/Strongfist1/images/Su.jpg
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/90/a6/95/90a6957a7da3a032a38137df4c9c84ba.jpg
https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2224/2366485012_b21dfeeebd_b.jpg

[/Ayrik]

Edited by - Ayrik on 21 Jun 2019 22:17:15
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
32389 Posts

Posted - 22 Jun 2019 :  03:00:39  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
A lot of the maps of Realms cities are just plain too small. Even major cities are oft shown as being less than a mile across, and there are never enough buildings... The 4E map of Loudwater, for example, shows about 50 buildings -- for a population of 2000 people. That's 40 people per building!

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Kentinal
Great Reader

4377 Posts

Posted - 22 Jun 2019 :  16:43:47  Show Profile Send Kentinal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

A lot of the maps of Realms cities are just plain too small. Even major cities are oft shown as being less than a mile across, and there are never enough buildings... The 4E map of Loudwater, for example, shows about 50 buildings -- for a population of 2000 people. That's 40 people per building!



As I indicated in my first reply, mapping did not in general appear to consider the common people.

40 people per building would be hard unless they are large buildings. The would tend to be 8 to 12 families in each building (Not all families are five in number).

"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon
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