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cpthero2
Master of Realmslore

USA
1812 Posts

Posted - 18 Nov 2020 :  22:10:01  Show Profile  Visit cpthero2's Homepage Send cpthero2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Senior Scribe Delnyn,

Fancy meeting you here good sir! :)

quote:
That said, as long as your party has a warmage, I would not worry about damage spells as much as having intel-gathering as cpthero2 suggested and preventing/stopping those nasty fey curses.


I appreciate the support there. I've always found divination to be the most powerful school in the game. Save you evocation and other beat down spells for the things you really need to kill, and use that divination to mitigate risk! :)

What do you think about that?

Best regards,



**EDIT: Added a transitive verb I forgot.

Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring

Edited by - cpthero2 on 19 Nov 2020 02:37:06
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Delnyn
Senior Scribe

USA
405 Posts

Posted - 19 Nov 2020 :  00:18:18  Show Profile Send Delnyn a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by cpthero2

Senior Scribe Delnyn,

Fancy meeting you here good sir! :)

I appreciate the support there. I've always found divination to be the most powerful school in the game. Save you evocation and other beat down spells for the things you really need to kill, and use that divination to mitigate risk! :)

What you think about that?

Best regards,




With it comes to intel gathering, I would first concentrate on training Knowledge, Gather Information and perception skills. Then I would cast divination spells to cover the holes left by mundane methods. If you need to get information from a reluctant target, I would recommend using Diplomacy before trying a charm, compulsion or mind scanning spell.
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Ayrik
Great Reader

Canada
7315 Posts

Posted - 19 Nov 2020 :  00:47:06  Show Profile Send Ayrik a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ye olde dispel magic is sorely underrated. And underestimated. Quick and easy to cast. Area effect. Not overtly "aggressive", if that matters.
Neutralize some or all of a target's magics - spells, items, potions, scrolls, etc.

If you're confronted by higher-level magics or by paranoid multiple-multiple-redundancy layers of hardened defenses then your magics are already outclassed anyhow. It won't do much more than annoy a powerful lich or dragon, though there's always a small chance you could get lucky.

But if you're confronted by magics about "equivalent" to your own (as you should be) then you can usually knock out at least one or two magics which are critical components of your opponent's tactics and strategy. All else being equal, you knock out some advantage(s) before everybody's forced into melee. It's particularly effective when enemies don't know whether or not they can rely on their stoneskin or contingency or magic item actually working until tested in combat. Summons and illusions can simply vanish (or become uncontrolled). Magical armor can suddenly become as heavy and clumsy as nonmagical armor, without offering any magical protection. Magical weapons can suddenly be unable to strike targets, and they can't impose harmful magical effects. Magical potions and scrolls can become inert. Magical "emergency last-resort overkill" or "emergency escape" options can become unreliable (and that alone is often enough to force most experienced adventurers to retreat).

Most useful vs things (like elves and fey and adventuring parties) which have great affinity and reliance on magic in combat.

And it can even be used defensively, cast on yourself and/or your allies, to remove controlling enchantments or other undesirable effects. And it could have all sorts of uses outside combat. Much more versatile than packing another predictable fireball into your arsenal.

[/Ayrik]

Edited by - Ayrik on 19 Nov 2020 01:12:32
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cpthero2
Master of Realmslore

USA
1812 Posts

Posted - 19 Nov 2020 :  02:36:22  Show Profile  Visit cpthero2's Homepage Send cpthero2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Senior Scribe Delnyn,

A fair assessment for sure. I believe as well using the "mundane" skills first is best. Magic can cause a quickly escalating situation when it is used. In a good many places it is a serious crime to even do so, even innocuously. Great points!

Best regards,





Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring
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Delnyn
Senior Scribe

USA
405 Posts

Posted - 21 Nov 2020 :  15:42:34  Show Profile Send Delnyn a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Dispel magic is one of those "must have" spells unless abjuration is a prohbited school. (Such a wizard should be nominated for the Darwin Award, but I digress.) I appreciate the focus placed on using dispel magic as a preventative measure before using to stop already existent effects.

In your opinion, would it be worthwhile for an abjurer to take the Magic Disruption reserve feat at 5th level?

quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik

Ye olde dispel magic is sorely underrated. And underestimated. Quick and easy to cast. Area effect. Not overtly "aggressive", if that matters.
Neutralize some or all of a target's magics - spells, items, potions, scrolls, etc.

If you're confronted by higher-level magics or by paranoid multiple-multiple-redundancy layers of hardened defenses then your magics are already outclassed anyhow. It won't do much more than annoy a powerful lich or dragon, though there's always a small chance you could get lucky.

But if you're confronted by magics about "equivalent" to your own (as you should be) then you can usually knock out at least one or two magics which are critical components of your opponent's tactics and strategy. All else being equal, you knock out some advantage(s) before everybody's forced into melee. It's particularly effective when enemies don't know whether or not they can rely on their stoneskin or contingency or magic item actually working until tested in combat. Summons and illusions can simply vanish (or become uncontrolled). Magical armor can suddenly become as heavy and clumsy as nonmagical armor, without offering any magical protection. Magical weapons can suddenly be unable to strike targets, and they can't impose harmful magical effects. Magical potions and scrolls can become inert. Magical "emergency last-resort overkill" or "emergency escape" options can become unreliable (and that alone is often enough to force most experienced adventurers to retreat).

Most useful vs things (like elves and fey and adventuring parties) which have great affinity and reliance on magic in combat.

And it can even be used defensively, cast on yourself and/or your allies, to remove controlling enchantments or other undesirable effects. And it could have all sorts of uses outside combat. Much more versatile than packing another predictable fireball into your arsenal.

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Ayrik
Great Reader

Canada
7315 Posts

Posted - 21 Nov 2020 :  15:55:29  Show Profile Send Ayrik a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Dispel magic is one of those "must have" spells unless abjuration is a prohbited school. (Such a wizard should be nominated for the Darwin Award, but I digress.)

My understanding is that dispel magic is part of the "universal" school. Available to all wizards regardless of any normal school oppositions or restrictions.
(Plenty of wizards and abjurers are suitable candidates for Darwin Awards, with or without any kind of dispel magic. But I also digress.)

quote:
In your opinion, would it be worthwhile for an abjurer to take the Magic Disruption reserve feat at 5th level?

I don't know this feat well enough to have much opinion, lol, I don't even know which game edition or sourcebook you're referencing.
If it's a better, simpler, faster, cheaper, or more versatile version of dispel magic then it would seem to be a good choice. Especially if it could replace the need to occupy a spell slot.
But it largely depends on what other feat(s) might have to be traded away to obtain this feat. Along with what other complimentary feats the abjurer might be able to access at lower and at higher levels.

And, as useful as dispel magic might be in the hands of a creative wizard ... it's not going to help against a big angry troll or a violent brute sticking something pointy into your flesh. There are some situations where fireball is the smarter choice.

[/Ayrik]

Edited by - Ayrik on 21 Nov 2020 16:30:43
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Delnyn
Senior Scribe

USA
405 Posts

Posted - 21 Nov 2020 :  17:05:06  Show Profile Send Delnyn a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I should have mentioned I was using 3.5 edition as a reference point for dispel magic and the reserve feat Magic Disruption. In that edition, dispel magic is abjuration. Magic Disruption can be found the the 3.5 ed splatbook Complete Mage.

Short version of Magic Disruption. As long as you have an abjuration spell of at least 3rd level perpared, you can force a rival spellcaster to succeed a Concentration check of DC 15 + highest level abjuration spell prepared. You also get a +1 caster level to all abjuration spells, whether or not you prepared an abjuration spell.

A wizard who lets an opponent engage in melee deserves a Darwin Award. Slugfesting with the monsters is the meatwall's melee character's job.
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cpthero2
Master of Realmslore

USA
1812 Posts

Posted - 21 Nov 2020 :  20:20:05  Show Profile  Visit cpthero2's Homepage Send cpthero2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Senior Scribe Delnyn,

quote:
Short version of Magic Disruption. As long as you have an abjuration spell of at least 3rd level perpared, you can force a rival spellcaster to succeed a Concentration check of DC 15 + highest level abjuration spell prepared. You also get a +1 caster level to all abjuration spells, whether or not you prepared an abjuration spell.


Important component with that reserve feat as well is the -2 to caster level of the spell and -2 to the DC. That's pretty dang good for an immediate action. ;)

I think it is a must for a specialist abjurer. One of the best wizards I ever saw in a game was a focused specialist, master specialist abjurer. Absolutely awe inspiring!

Best regards,




Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring
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