Candlekeep Forum
Candlekeep Forum
Home | Profile | Register | Active Topics | Active Polls | Members | Private Messages | Search | FAQ
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

 All Forums
 Forgotten Realms Journals
 General Forgotten Realms Chat
 Is there an official list of holy symbols?
 New Topic  New Poll New Poll
 Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  

mastermustard
Seeker

USA
59 Posts

Posted - 09 May 2019 :  20:29:54  Show Profile Send mastermustard a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic

I've been looking at the Faerunian deities' holy symbols on the Forgotten Realms' wiki. I have difficulty believing these are the official ones, or that they could be mass produced in the Realms for clerics and especially lay worshippers.

I wanted to carve one. Generally I expect holy symbols to be simple, easy to reproduce, and evocative of the deity in question, like the Holy cross is of Jesus. Shar's symbol is definitely simple, a black disc with a purple perimeter, reminiscent of a gaping void of some sort, and it's described that way in the novels. It's actually a really good symbol. But I'm not interested in carving it.

I was looking at Tempus', and it's depicted as a metal shield with a flaming sword emblazoned on the front. This would be extremely difficult to make, especially in any significant quantity, and I can't imagine anyone willingly lugging one around their neck. It's the opposite of how a faith's holy symbol should realistically look.

Is there a list somewhere?

mastermustard
Seeker

USA
59 Posts

Posted - 09 May 2019 :  20:43:54  Show Profile Send mastermustard a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Just to clarify, I don't intend to make any money off of this, nor do I intend to proselytize Faerunian religions on Earth... I'll just be making one for personal use.
Go to Top of Page

Kentinal
Great Reader

4373 Posts

Posted - 09 May 2019 :  21:39:05  Show Profile Send Kentinal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
A Holy Symbol can be a simple image, the shield with Sword does not need to be made of metal (It can be made with wood, cloth, etc.). Also not all holy symbols worn as a necklace. A brooch or small pin would serve as well.

For your Tempus' symbol in wood, crave a shield shaped piece of wood, then either crave into it the sword or shave the shield thinner to raise the sword. For the flames, etch the appearance of flames about the sword.

I grant not easy, however Holy Symbols generally are not massed produced in the Realms by any faith.

"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon
Go to Top of Page

sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
8122 Posts

Posted - 09 May 2019 :  22:52:02  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hell to take it further, I would not be surprised to find that Tempus' holy symbol might not be something carved of metal, painted with enamel and then attached at the base of a sword.... or a surcoat… or a symbol on a shield.... or even just a small shield shaped piece of wood with paint on it.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
Go to Top of Page

Lord Karsus
Great Reader

USA
3226 Posts

Posted - 09 May 2019 :  23:42:58  Show Profile  Send Lord Karsus an AOL message Send Lord Karsus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
-I've thought about that, too. Some of the holy symbols are very ornate. Rationalize it as peasants and travelers and whoever else have "lesser" versions of them; the ornate, detailed ones are carried by clerics and found in temples.

(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)

Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium
Go to Top of Page

Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
32219 Posts

Posted - 10 May 2019 :  03:45:00  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Faiths & Avatars, Powers & Pantheons, and Demihuman Deities -- the holy symbols are described in these books, and there's some accompanying artwork that's pretty close to the description.

The caveat, of course, is that the books are 2E, and since WotC has played fast and loose with adhering to prior canon since then, some of those symbols may no longer match the current canon.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Editor and scribe for The Candlekeep Compendium

I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
Go to Top of Page

Ayrik
Great Reader

Canada
6824 Posts

Posted - 10 May 2019 :  05:59:09  Show Profile Send Ayrik a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I recall a couple of spells ... create holy symbol and brandish the faith.

Not sure which rules edition(s) but they were both level 1 spells available to all priests. The first creates or conjures a holy symbol (a gift from the deity) which remains indefinitely - in case the priest doesn't have one and wants to cast any other spell (since the holy symbol is pretty much a required component of every other priest spell). The second version does the same thing but the conjured symbol has a glowing supernatural appearance and grants minor powers and has a limited duration - flaming sword icons seem pretty straightforward.

[/Ayrik]
Go to Top of Page

BadCatMan
Learned Scribe

Australia
342 Posts

Posted - 10 May 2019 :  09:33:48  Show Profile Send BadCatMan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by mastermustard

I've been looking at the Faerunian deities' holy symbols on the Forgotten Realms' wiki. I have difficulty believing these are the official ones, or that they could be mass produced in the Realms for clerics and especially lay worshippers.


They are the official images, or should be. We try to remove anything that's unsupported fan art.

In 1st and 2nd editions, the holy symbols were much simpler, usually black-and-white designs. I would consider these to be the basic holy symbols. In 3rd, 4th, and 5th editions, the holy symbols are coloured and much more extravagant, and are often clearly art pieces (necklaces, paintings on shields, signs and flags). These are the fancy, high-grade holy symbols. They're also much easier to find online (the WotC Art Gallery, for example) and upload, while the older ones need scanning and photoshopping, hence the false balance on the wiki.

Consider the increasing quality of these symbols of Ilmater:
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/File:Ilmater_Symbol-5e.png
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/File:Symbol_of_Ilmater.jpg
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/File:Ilmater_symbol.jpg

The holy symbol of Tempus in Faiths & Avatars is much simpler than the one in Faiths & Pantheons. So it's worth looking around for different depictions to find some appropriate.

BadCatMan, B.Sc. (Hons), M.Sc.
Scientific technical editor
Head DM of the Realms of Adventure play-by-post community
Administrator of the Forgotten Realms Wiki
Go to Top of Page

TBeholder
Master of Realmslore

1835 Posts

Posted - 12 May 2019 :  01:20:15  Show Profile Send TBeholder a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by BadCatMan

In 1st and 2nd editions, the holy symbols were much simpler, usually black-and-white designs. I would consider these to be the basic holy symbols. In 3rd, 4th, and 5th editions, the holy symbols are coloured and much more extravagant, and are often clearly art pieces (necklaces, paintings on shields, signs and flags). These are the fancy, high-grade holy symbols. They're also much easier to find online (the WotC Art Gallery, for example) and upload, while the older ones need scanning and photoshopping, hence the false balance on the wiki.
Consider the increasing quality of these symbols of Ilmater:
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/File:Ilmater_Symbol-5e.png
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/File:Symbol_of_Ilmater.jpg
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/File:Ilmater_symbol.jpg

With 3e set it's not quality. It is, as you correctly called it, extravagance and fancy. Some aren't even easily recognizable.
In this case, fancy could not be fully compatible with quality, in that it doesn't make sense: a holy symbol is not a mural, but an item that most of the time needs to be instantly identifiable at a glance, practical and somewhat resistant to wear.
"Parade" versions (like those, and much fancier) probably exist for most of them, but as unique pieces of art, so there's no point to use them as reference.

People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch
Go to Top of Page

Starshade
Learned Scribe

Norway
235 Posts

Posted - 12 May 2019 :  12:06:31  Show Profile Send Starshade a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I honestly interpreted those graphics pieces in 3rd ed sources as murals, temple paintings, wall decorations and so on. Not as depictions of wearable small items for daily use, or even ceremonial. I read the books as still using simpler symbols of the faiths preference of materials in small 2 - 5cm small items on a cord or chain. Same as in older 2. edition sources.
Go to Top of Page
  Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
 New Topic  New Poll New Poll
 Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Jump To:
Candlekeep Forum © 1999-2019 Candlekeep.com Go To Top Of Page
Snitz Forums 2000