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Dalor Darden
Great Reader

USA
3724 Posts

Posted - 14 Mar 2019 :  18:54:30  Show Profile Send Dalor Darden a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
Where is this group first mentioned...and who (as in designer) created them?

They seem suspiciously like the Gheallie Sidhe of the Cerilian continent in Birthright.

AD&D for me!

Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
32067 Posts

Posted - 14 Mar 2019 :  20:12:58  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden

Where is this group first mentioned...and who (as in designer) created them?

They seem suspiciously like the Gheallie Sidhe of the Cerilian continent in Birthright.



They were first described in Cloak & Dagger, I believe.

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Dalor Darden
Great Reader

USA
3724 Posts

Posted - 14 Mar 2019 :  20:45:01  Show Profile Send Dalor Darden a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden

Where is this group first mentioned...and who (as in designer) created them?

They seem suspiciously like the Gheallie Sidhe of the Cerilian continent in Birthright.



They were first described in Cloak & Dagger, I believe.



The authors are Eric L Boyd, Sean K Reynolds and Steven E Schend...so I guess the idea didn't come from Rich Baker's elves it seems.

EDIT: although Rich does have Creative Direction credit...hmmmm.

AD&D for me!

Edited by - Dalor Darden on 14 Mar 2019 20:46:05
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Zeromaru X
Master of Realmslore

Colombia
1312 Posts

Posted - 14 Mar 2019 :  21:21:08  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
You can ask Eric about them, in the podcast

Long ago, in the distant past, they fell into decay. The philosopher’s path... The river of glory... Even the saints resting in the darkness rise up without response and block the way...
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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer

USA
1373 Posts

Posted - 15 Mar 2019 :  00:48:04  Show Profile  Visit ericlboyd's Homepage Send ericlboyd a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X

You can ask Eric about them, in the podcast



They were not originally from Cloak & Dagger. They weren't even from Volo's Guide to All Things Magical.

...

--Eric

--
http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/
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Zeromaru X
Master of Realmslore

Colombia
1312 Posts

Posted - 15 Mar 2019 :  00:51:31  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Oops. Thanks for the answer

Long ago, in the distant past, they fell into decay. The philosopher’s path... The river of glory... Even the saints resting in the darkness rise up without response and block the way...
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
5477 Posts

Posted - 15 Mar 2019 :  05:16:35  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
They were originally mentioned in FOR4 Code of the Harpers.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
8003 Posts

Posted - 15 Mar 2019 :  11:33:39  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Putting on my wayback helmet and trying to remember back then, I seem to recall prior to this an upsurge in people discussing in forums and such how elves were always being portrayed as the friendly folk. At the same time, in Shining South, you had these surface elves called the Crintri with a fascination with Loviatar coming out. A few years prior there were games being announced proudly with "no elves" in them. Just prior to this, the dark sun setting had been released, in which elves were basically thieves and racial bigots. I have to say, when I saw the concept of the EV appear, I wasn't surprised. I'm actually surprised that there aren't MORE groups of a similar sort amongst other races that compete with humans for resources and who don't basically leech from their societies (dwarves and gnomes in particular, but I think halflings benefit too much from human interaction such that they probably don't harbor DEEP resentment towards humans). Then again, I guess one might say that duergar are a rough equivalent of the EV (though they hate other members of their own race as well), but I'd kind of expect to find something like the EV within regular dwarven society (people who grow up to discover that they just don't like human superiority and find like minded individuals).

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas

Edited by - sleyvas on 15 Mar 2019 11:37:42
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
32067 Posts

Posted - 15 Mar 2019 :  12:23:08  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

Putting on my wayback helmet and trying to remember back then, I seem to recall prior to this an upsurge in people discussing in forums and such how elves were always being portrayed as the friendly folk. At the same time, in Shining South, you had these surface elves called the Crintri with a fascination with Loviatar coming out. A few years prior there were games being announced proudly with "no elves" in them. Just prior to this, the dark sun setting had been released, in which elves were basically thieves and racial bigots. I have to say, when I saw the concept of the EV appear, I wasn't surprised. I'm actually surprised that there aren't MORE groups of a similar sort amongst other races that compete with humans for resources and who don't basically leech from their societies (dwarves and gnomes in particular, but I think halflings benefit too much from human interaction such that they probably don't harbor DEEP resentment towards humans). Then again, I guess one might say that duergar are a rough equivalent of the EV (though they hate other members of their own race as well), but I'd kind of expect to find something like the EV within regular dwarven society (people who grow up to discover that they just don't like human superiority and find like minded individuals).



I don't see that, for dwarves. Part of the issue with elves and humans is competition for the same lands and resources. There aren't many humans trying to make their homes underground; dwarves could literally live underneath the feet of humans without the latter ever knowing the dwarves are there.

Dwarves tend to keep to themselves and their homes more than elves, too.

And since dwarves don't mix with humans as much and since they live in places humans don't dig, there are far fewer half-dwarves in the Realms, too.

Dwarves have far less of an imperial history than elves, too.

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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 15 Mar 2019 12:25:37
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Alexander Clark
Learned Scribe

84 Posts

Posted - 15 Mar 2019 :  13:49:18  Show Profile Send Alexander Clark a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
(people who grow up to discover that they just don't like human superiority and find like minded individuals).


What do you mean by human superiority?
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TBeholder
Master of Realmslore

1800 Posts

Posted - 16 Mar 2019 :  01:19:11  Show Profile Send TBeholder a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert


I don't see that, for dwarves. Part of the issue with elves and humans is competition for the same lands and resources. There aren't many humans trying to make their homes underground; dwarves could literally live underneath the feet of humans without the latter ever knowing the dwarves are there.
Also, humans in general are not that eager to go into mines, and dwarves are less inclined to work fields and gardens, which naturally leads to symbiosis.
quote:
Dwarves have far less of an imperial history than elves, too.

I doubt that. Spawn wars, and what not. But their kingdoms probably were concerned mostly with underground resources, too.

People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
8003 Posts

Posted - 16 Mar 2019 :  01:27:46  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Alexander Clark

quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
(people who grow up to discover that they just don't like human superiority and find like minded individuals).


What do you mean by human superiority?



Human ability to control more territory in the world than any other race and push out those who control anything they tend to want. For instance, if both humans and dwarves suddenly found out about a gold vein... I can see the humans acquiring and holding it against the dwarves.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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