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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
 Posted - 07 Mar 2019 : 23:21:48
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Has anyone had any success introducing new gods to the Forgotten Realms from existing pantheons like the Greek, Norse, etc.?
The Finnish has several representatives, Celtic and others too...which makes it possible of course.
If you did, how did you do it...what conflicts came of it and so on?
Personally I've recently introduced:
Cernunnos: a counterpart to Silvanus...or perhaps an offshoot of the same god. His cult is growing (in my campaign) in the lands of the Dales. He is a primarily non-human god worshiped by many woodland beings; but several humans have started to worship him as well. His worship was brought by a Druid from another realm who has gained several score worshipers across the Dales with several new druids. If the small cult isn't absorbed by Silvanus' followers, Cernunnos may become embroiled in a battle against Silvanus to see which becomes the Lord of the Forest.
I never liked Silvanus anyway...
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The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2442 Posts |
Posted - 07 Mar 2019 : 23:59:35
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I have not introduced "RL" gods IMC, because... Dunno, have not thought about that, really. So far, the only interloper deity I've brought to my Realms is the Raven Queen, in her 4e version.
Her cult was introduced to my Realms in the 1450s, so hers is a relatively young church. Mainly popular in the Sword Coast, but began spreading into the Heartlands by the early 1470s. There is a conflict between her church and Kelemvor's, but not between the gods themselves. There is no overlaping of their portfolios. Kelemvor is the god of the dead, while the Raven Queen is the goddess of death and fate (and AFAIK, there is no god of fate in the Faerūnian pantheon either).
The conflict would be between the Raven Queen and Mirkul, as they both share the same porfolio. But my campaign is still stuck in 1481, so Mirkul is still dead. When the Sundering happens IMC (if the campaign survives to go that far), perhaps the Raven Queen may have to fight with Mirkul. Or perhaps not. I'm not a fan of him, so... |
Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7968 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2019 : 12:40:06
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There's already too many gods in the Realms - you can hardly swing your axe, throw a halfling, or punt a kobold without hitting one.
The gods may dominate novels and Realmslore but I always felt they should never (or very, very rarely and only indirectly) be involved in the gaming itself. They may be worshipped by priests/etc, grant spells and powers, sometimes send proxies or "work in mysterious ways" to guide and assist their faithful (often by guiding them into helping each other). Or they may be the gods of some "evil" temple (or whatever) which is part of an adventure. No need to introduce more gods when the established gods already have no real presence in adventures. |
[/Ayrik] |
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LordofBones
Master of Realmslore
1477 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2019 : 13:31:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X
I have not introduced "RL" gods IMC, because... Dunno, have not thought about that, really. So far, the only interloper deity I've brought to my Realms is the Raven Queen, in her 4e version.
Her cult was introduced to my Realms in the 1450s, so hers is a relatively young church. Mainly popular in the Sword Coast, but began spreading into the Heartlands by the early 1470s. There is a conflict between her church and Kelemvor's, but not between the gods themselves. There is no overlaping of their portfolios. Kelemvor is the god of the dead, while the Raven Queen is the goddess of death and fate (and AFAIK, there is no god of fate in the Faerūnian pantheon either).
The conflict would be between the Raven Queen and Mirkul, as they both share the same porfolio. But my campaign is still stuck in 1481, so Mirkul is still dead. When the Sundering happens IMC (if the campaign survives to go that far), perhaps the Raven Queen may have to fight with Mirkul. Or perhaps not. I'm not a fan of him, so...
Kelemvor has the death portfolio. The sundering of death/the dead portfolios only happens in 5e. |
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2442 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2019 : 13:42:51
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quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones
Kelemvor has the death portfolio. The sundering of death/the dead portfolios only happens in 5e.
And in 4e, that is the edition I was DMing during that particular campaign. He has the "sphere" (Domain) of Death, but its portafolio were "the Dead", so it didn't overlap with the Raven Queen, whose lore in 4e was specific (she was the goddess of Death, but not of the Dead). |
Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2442 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2019 : 14:18:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
There's already too many gods in the Realms - you can hardly swing your axe, throw a halfling, or punt a kobold without hitting one.
The gods may dominate novels and Realmslore but I always felt they should never (or very, very rarely and only indirectly) be involved in the gaming itself. They may be worshipped by priests/etc, grant spells and powers, sometimes send proxies or "work in mysterious ways" to guide and assist their faithful (often by guiding them into helping each other). Or they may be the gods of some "evil" temple (or whatever) which is part of an adventure. No need to introduce more gods when the established gods already have no real presence in adventures.
Totally agree with you. The gods per se shouldn't appear in adventures, however their churches must, given the role those churches play in the everyday life of peasants and farmers. That's why IMC, the gods' only "presence" was in the conflict of their churches rather that in showing up themselves.
As for the number gods, they were significantly less numerous in 4e (and the people complained because of this, lol), and my players love the Raven Queen in her 4e iteration, so I ceded to their whims on using her in the Realms as a minor goddess.
Shouldn't have bothered, as WotC made her canon in the Realms with 5e - althought in a version nobody at my table is happy with. |
Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
Edited by - Zeromaru X on 08 Mar 2019 14:22:16 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2019 : 17:52:18
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I came to the Realms with 2E, and I would leave the gods exactly as they were at the end of the 2E era. I think Asmodeus and the Raven Queen are both unnecessary additions, and I also think that bringing back dead/former deities was a mistake -- especially in Myrkul's case; I think there was a lot more role-playing potential in him as a trouble-making former deity, as opposed to being another "Ooooh, death is scaaaarrry!" type.
If I was running a Realms campaign, though, my "Xvim is Bane" theory would be canon.
If I was going to import any deities from real-world mythologies, I'd likely just stick with a single Trickster-type. It should surprise no one that I feel an affinity for Tricksters, and I wish there was a Trickster-deity in the Realms -- one for humans, that is.
From other fictitious settings, I love Golarion's Cayden Cailean, a deity of alcohol, freedom, and bravery. The fact that he was a mortal who became a deity on a drunken dare -- and doesn't remember how! -- gives him a lot of appeal, and no one in the Realms really covers his portfolios. |
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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 08 Mar 2019 17:53:27 |
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2442 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2019 : 18:20:17
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| Isn't Mask a trickster type? |
Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
Edited by - Zeromaru X on 08 Mar 2019 18:21:22 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2019 : 20:21:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X
Isn't Mask a trickster type?
He is, kinda, but it's not a primary thing for him, and the stuff he does is malicious and self-serving.
I was thinking more of the Native American-type Tricksters like Kokopelli or Coyote, or some of the ones from legend, like B'rer Rabbit or Reynard the fox.
I particularly like the types that use mischief as a teaching tool. |
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2019 : 21:35:20
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Cernunnos would fit better in the Moonshaes.
As for Asmodeus, I don't think it added anything at all to make him a God of the Realms. He was always there and was much more subtle - which fit. It made D&D devils more like "real world" idea of devils in that they are only worshiped in secret cults and never out in the open and manipulate people without their knowledge. |
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2442 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2019 : 22:11:37
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quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
As for Asmodeus, I don't think it added anything at all to make him a God of the Realms. He was always there and was much more subtle - which fit. It made D&D devils more like "real world" idea of devils in that they are only worshiped in secret cults and never out in the open and manipulate people without their knowledge.
While that idea is interesting on its own, it makes little sense in-universe. I can't picture someone like Asmodeus (want incarnate) happy with being second bannanas for all eternity.
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Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2019 : 00:19:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X
quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
As for Asmodeus, I don't think it added anything at all to make him a God of the Realms. He was always there and was much more subtle - which fit. It made D&D devils more like "real world" idea of devils in that they are only worshiped in secret cults and never out in the open and manipulate people without their knowledge.
While that idea is interesting on its own, it makes little sense in-universe. I can't picture someone like Asmodeus (want incarnate) happy with being second bannanas for all eternity.
I always figured that Asmodeus had too much going on to want to bother with something inconsequential, like being a deity. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7968 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2019 : 02:06:59
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Asmodeus does theoretically command the absolute obedience of every devil in the entire D&D cosmos ... arguably more minions and power at his disposal than any other deity. He's already an immortal entity capable of manifesting god-like abilities and destroying all sorts of deities. At least in the earlier game editions.
So I agree that it's an utterly dumb move for Asmodeus to shackle himself to a faith and a bunch of faithful. He was always able to assert a position of dominance over his followers before, his worshippers/cults were forced to accept (or "earn") meager access to his vast and godlike powers on his terms, they always approached (or were trapped) by him instead of the other way around ... there's really no good explanation for him suddenly preferring a co-dependent or symbiotic relationship on more equal terms. Remember that even if an official deity arrangement would technically benefit Asmodeus it would still not fit his temperament and goals - he is the master, others exist to serve (or be corrupted by him), he does not show weakeness and does not share power. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2019 : 03:55:37
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quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
Cernunnos would fit better in the Moonshaes.
As for Asmodeus, I don't think it added anything at all to make him a God of the Realms. He was always there and was much more subtle - which fit. It made D&D devils more like "real world" idea of devils in that they are only worshiped in secret cults and never out in the open and manipulate people without their knowledge.
I thought about the Moonshaes; but the Earthmother is a goddess I like. lol In MY realms she is Danann... |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2019 : 03:57:56
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| Raven would be a good trickster god for the realms...he could fit in anywhere too. Easy to bring him into things with the Maztica connection. He is powerful too; so he could defend himself as he became established. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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LordofBones
Master of Realmslore
1477 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2019 : 03:58:12
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Godhood shouldn't really matter overmuch to beings like the Nine or the Abyssal Lords. Captain Fuzzybritches has the god of ghouls as his somewhat-grumpy lackey, Kiaransalee and Raxivort are both gods terrified of Orcus and Graz'zt respectively, and both Sess'innek and Captain Fuzzybritches gleefully subvert lizardfolk and gnolls away from their patron deities without much care. The 'loths once killed a god.
Though, admittedly, Orcus is probably a boogeyman for gods in general. |
Edited by - LordofBones on 09 Mar 2019 03:59:05 |
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Demzer
Senior Scribe
873 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2019 : 11:30:14
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quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones
The 'loths once killed a god.
Can't remember off-hand this instance, care to give a pointer? |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11690 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2019 : 15:50:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X
Isn't Mask a trickster type?
He is, kinda, but it's not a primary thing for him, and the stuff he does is malicious and self-serving.
I was thinking more of the Native American-type Tricksters like Kokopelli or Coyote, or some of the ones from legend, like B'rer Rabbit or Reynard the fox.
I particularly like the types that use mischief as a teaching tool.
Its kind of interesting that you specifically bring this up Wooly, as one of the things I was recently thinking about was Anchorome. I was considering introducing a pair of far northern races. I was going to call them the Coyotoi (a coyote folk but with swept back horns on their heads... making an S shape) and the Foxibouri (a fox folk with twisting horns). These peoples would have a "coyote" like god who was a trickster amongst a small pantheon. But, this being would also have hints to a link to an Anchorome great spirit. Part of this also was that these people would also worship a sun god, and I was going to have the metahel version of Frey (whom I'm naming Faerthandir) riding a red-gold furred dire foxibou. Then I might give some kind of linkage to a child of Faerthandir who is tricksterish, but a bit more wholesome than Loki/Valigan Thirdborn/Valigor the Runtborn Giant (and perhaps its worrisome of Faerthandir that this child is involved with Valigor as a friend). I was also going to introduce 3 races of small "doglike" animals, a coyote one with sweptback horns and some kind of undefined ability, a red fox one (foxibou) with swirling horns that can teleport like a blink dog, and white fox one with deer antlers and the ability to fly when it snows and the ability to make it snow in a say quarter mile radius.
The Great Spirit Paiyatemu from City of Gold
[/i]Trickster (Sun Youth, Paiyatemu)
Symbol(s): Clown#146;s garb, butterfly
Alignment: Chaotic neutral
Physical Appearance: A handsome Azuposi clown, bearing the shield of the Sun, carrying a flute. Countless butterflies come from the flute when it is played, and flutter around the spirit.
Role: Paiyetmu is the child of the Sun and a mortal woman, who conceived him when a beam of sunlight touched her in her sleep. Many tales surround Paiyetemu as both a #147;hero#148; and a mighty spirit. Many of these stories are coarse, but most are humorous. As a child he was troublesome; as a youth, a problem; and as an adult, he turned into a positively outrageous rascal. He is the patron and archetype of Azuposi rogues, clowns, and practical jokers. Since status as a spirit has been recognized, Paiyatemu has had an official function as the shieldbearer of the sun.[/i] |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11690 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2019 : 15:58:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
Raven would be a good trickster god for the realms...he could fit in anywhere too. Easy to bring him into things with the Maztica connection. He is powerful too; so he could defend himself as he became established.
And if he were a god of a segment of the aearee, and a kenku like folk in appearance, hmmm.... thank you Dalor, that thing I was literally just talking about in the post before... there might be some bird folk who also worship a magpie like deity. Magpie to match up with more coloration, and possibly more of a link to butterflies via color. Having this trickster deity having ties to the sun, but also to rainbows, could be interesting. It could play into the whole couatl thing too (as an alternative to Qotal, maybe there are couatl type beings that aren't LG, but tricksterish, and maybe they prey on people who think of couatl as good). |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11690 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2019 : 15:59:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
Raven would be a good trickster god for the realms...he could fit in anywhere too. Easy to bring him into things with the Maztica connection. He is powerful too; so he could defend himself as he became established.
And if he were a god of a segment of the aearee, and a kenku like folk in appearance, hmmm.... thank you Dalor, that thing I was literally just talking about in the post before... there might be some bird folk who also worship a magpie like deity. Magpie to match up with more coloration, and possibly more of a link to butterflies via color. Having this trickster deity having ties to the sun, but also to rainbows, could be interesting. It could play into the whole couatl thing too (as an alternative to Qotal, maybe there are couatl type beings that aren't LG, but tricksterish, and maybe they prey on people who think of couatl as good). |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Seethyr
Master of Realmslore
USA
1151 Posts |
Posted - 11 Mar 2019 : 03:28:01
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
Raven would be a good trickster god for the realms...he could fit in anywhere too. Easy to bring him into things with the Maztica connection. He is powerful too; so he could defend himself as he became established.
And if he were a god of a segment of the aearee, and a kenku like folk in appearance, hmmm.... thank you Dalor, that thing I was literally just talking about in the post before... there might be some bird folk who also worship a magpie like deity. Magpie to match up with more coloration, and possibly more of a link to butterflies via color. Having this trickster deity having ties to the sun, but also to rainbows, could be interesting. It could play into the whole couatl thing too (as an alternative to Qotal, maybe there are couatl type beings that aren't LG, but tricksterish, and maybe they prey on people who think of couatl as good).
Winter, also known as Shakak, is a "Mighty Spirit" of the Azuposi (pretty much a god, but I think locally only). His vanguard is actually the magpie. There are a ton of these mighty spirits covered in FMQ1. |
Follow the Maztica (Aztec/Maya) and Anchorome (Indigenous North America) Campaigns on DMsGuild!
The Maztica Campaign
The Anchorome Campaign |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11690 Posts |
Posted - 12 Mar 2019 : 11:58:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Seethyr
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
Raven would be a good trickster god for the realms...he could fit in anywhere too. Easy to bring him into things with the Maztica connection. He is powerful too; so he could defend himself as he became established.
And if he were a god of a segment of the aearee, and a kenku like folk in appearance, hmmm.... thank you Dalor, that thing I was literally just talking about in the post before... there might be some bird folk who also worship a magpie like deity. Magpie to match up with more coloration, and possibly more of a link to butterflies via color. Having this trickster deity having ties to the sun, but also to rainbows, could be interesting. It could play into the whole couatl thing too (as an alternative to Qotal, maybe there are couatl type beings that aren't LG, but tricksterish, and maybe they prey on people who think of couatl as good).
Winter, also known as Shakak, is a "Mighty Spirit" of the Azuposi (pretty much a god, but I think locally only). His vanguard is actually the magpie. There are a ton of these mighty spirits covered in FMQ1.
Never noticed that magpie reference to him. So, a god of winter AND a god of "raven-like" birds. If he had death, I'd swear it was a male aspect of the raven queen. Still, its good to note this guy. So maybe he is a former Aearee "deity"/primordial/primal spirit, etc... that's been taken up by other gods. He's definitely an earthy god of winter, not a sea god of winter like Ulutiu, even if his description does kind of sound like Ulutiu (possibly a relation? Jotun?). He doesn't seem tricksterish though in this reference, so maybe less of a replacement for "raven", and more of an extra Aearee god that hasn't died out. Still... makes me want both owl folk and a magpie folk in the north (the magpie folk just being kenku with more coloration and maybe different societal views).
From City of Gold, just for discussion sake.
Winter (Shakak)
Symbol(s): Icicle, magpie
Alignment: Neutral evil
Physical Appearance: A blue-skinned, white-haired man who wears a shirt of icicles and is covered with frost from head to foot.
Role: The spirit of winter rules the North Mountain of Wenimats. He is served by animals of winter, and can cast sleet and hail. His vanguard is the magpie. Shakak battles eternally with the summer spirit, Miochin, for possession of the Corn Maidens. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2442 Posts |
Posted - 17 Mar 2019 : 06:14:11
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quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones
Godhood shouldn't really matter overmuch to beings like the Nine or the Abyssal Lords. Captain Fuzzybritches has the god of ghouls as his somewhat-grumpy lackey, Kiaransalee and Raxivort are both gods terrified of Orcus and Graz'zt respectively, and both Sess'innek and Captain Fuzzybritches gleefully subvert lizardfolk and gnolls away from their patron deities without much care. The 'loths once killed a god.
Though, admittedly, Orcus is probably a boogeyman for gods in general.
Well, I don' t know how much "lore rape" is this regarding the old lore (I only know the new, post-4e lore), but gaining godhood allowed Asmodeus to literally stop the Blood War in all the multiverse during 100 years. And the Hells have a huge advantage in the war while Asmodeus is god (that's why in the Sundering novels, he did his utmost to mantain his godhood; and why the Demon Lords did their desperate plan during the Rage of Demons plot)
So, at least in the new lore, there is big power boost gained for being a god. |
Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
Edited by - Zeromaru X on 17 Mar 2019 06:16:37 |
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LordofBones
Master of Realmslore
1477 Posts |
Posted - 17 Mar 2019 : 10:23:57
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It's massive lore rape. Ridiculously massive. A god is potent and powerful, but if it was all that took, Mystra would have simply taken a metaphysical baseball bat to Baator until it coughed up Elminster.
Nevermind that eating a lesser power should not have boosted the Lord Below to greater deity status, or that the Abyss itself has a ton of divine residents (Beshaba, Umberlee, Chemosh, Kali, the Great Mother, Hiddukel, Merrshaulk, etc) of its own, or that if it really were that simple, some greater power of good could have nuked Gehenna or some greater deity of evil could have taken his boot to Arcadia.
It's even worse than the clumsy "Zargon is an ancient baatorian" retcon. |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6351 Posts |
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2442 Posts |
Posted - 17 Mar 2019 : 14:10:17
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5e lore, in fact. The novels that explain that were writen for 5e and changed a lot of the 4e lore. But I get your point.
quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones
Nevermind that eating a lesser power should not have boosted the Lord Below to greater deity status,
Azuth only provided the divine spark. What boosted Asmodeus to Greater Deity was the "tiefling curse" (changing all the tiefling bloodlines in the material plane into "Asmodean" ones) that made him a racial god. |
Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
Edited by - Zeromaru X on 17 Mar 2019 14:11:21 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 17 Mar 2019 : 15:25:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X
5e lore, in fact. The novels that explain that were writen for 5e and changed a lot of the 4e lore. But I get your point.
quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones
Nevermind that eating a lesser power should not have boosted the Lord Below to greater deity status,
Azuth only provided the divine spark. What boosted Asmodeus to Greater Deity was the "tiefling curse" (changing all the tiefling bloodlines in the material plane into "Asmodean" ones) that made him a racial god.
Even that shouldn't have pushed him up that high -- it's not like tieflings are a major race, like humans or elves. And it still doesn't explain how -- or why! -- one deity out of dozens located in the Lower Planes could suddenly push the Pause button on a war that had been going on for longer than recorded history.
That curse also made tieflings a lot less interesting. One of the things that made them interesting before 4E was the fact that no two tieflings were identical, because they all had differing ancestries. Forcing them all into one mold took that away.
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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 17 Mar 2019 15:29:13 |
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LordofBones
Master of Realmslore
1477 Posts |
Posted - 17 Mar 2019 : 15:43:09
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It gets even funnier when you realize the Lord Below has a very dim view on baatezu procreation. The former Lord of the Sixth before Moloch and his wife ended up in the deadbook precisely because they violated the Dark Lord's edicts on baatezu reproduction.
Non-diabolic tiefling bloodlines shouldn't have been affected by the "Tiefling Curse" either, since the fiendish race most associated with, well, boinking and birthing aren't the baatezu. Alu-fiends and cambions are of tanar'ri stock, and the tanar'ri have at least three demon princes associated with sexuality.
This is up there with Zargon in how silly it is. |
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2442 Posts |
Posted - 17 Mar 2019 : 16:14:00
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There is a novel explaining why the curse affected all bloodlines (including the demonic ones). Long story short, Asmodeus' followers cursed the blood of certain bloodlines of tieflings with devil or demon ancestors (seems the loths were left outside of this).
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Even that shouldn't have pushed him up that high -- it's not like tieflings are a major race, like humans or elves. And it still doesn't explain how -- or why! -- one deity out of dozens located in the Lower Planes could suddenly push the Pause button on a war that had been going on for longer than recorded history.
That curse also made tieflings a lot less interesting. One of the things that made them interesting before 4E was the fact that no two tieflings were identical, because they all had differing ancestries. Forcing them all into one mold took that away.
Well, it wasn't just on Toril. In was in the whole material plane (see Bael Turath in the core). So, is a huge number, if you count the many different worlds (settings). Plus, the Spellplague wreaking chaos in the multiverse helped him a lot.
And is not as if the other bloodlines ceased to exist after this. The tieflings in the other planes were left untouched. That's why they reapeared 100 years later.
Mechanically and lorewise, there are a few dragon articles during the 4e era with lore and advise on how to create a different kind of tiefling. 5e also has options for playing different kinds. So, nothing prevents you for playing one of them.
Now, they all look the same in the art, but isn't this happening since 3e? I have a few 3e books, and the few tieflings that appear there are somewhat similar to the 4e ones. So, why blame 4e for something that has been happening since 3e...
Oh, yeah. I remember, 3e is "perfect". |
Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
Edited by - Zeromaru X on 17 Mar 2019 16:18:00 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11690 Posts |
Posted - 17 Mar 2019 : 21:03:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X
5e lore, in fact. The novels that explain that were writen for 5e and changed a lot of the 4e lore. But I get your point.
quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones
Nevermind that eating a lesser power should not have boosted the Lord Below to greater deity status,
Azuth only provided the divine spark. What boosted Asmodeus to Greater Deity was the "tiefling curse" (changing all the tiefling bloodlines in the material plane into "Asmodean" ones) that made him a racial god.
Even that shouldn't have pushed him up that high -- it's not like tieflings are a major race, like humans or elves. And it still doesn't explain how -- or why! -- one deity out of dozens located in the Lower Planes could suddenly push the Pause button on a war that had been going on for longer than recorded history.
That curse also made tieflings a lot less interesting. One of the things that made them interesting before 4E was the fact that no two tieflings were identical, because they all had differing ancestries. Forcing them all into one mold took that away.
It made them really interesting from a racist viewpoint.... hmmm, how can I make EVERYONE like me no matter who I mate with (Mulans... certain elven races...). Maybe if I get a lot of tieflings and begin experimenting on them.... |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11690 Posts |
Posted - 17 Mar 2019 : 21:04:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X
5e lore, in fact. The novels that explain that were writen for 5e and changed a lot of the 4e lore. But I get your point.
quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones
Nevermind that eating a lesser power should not have boosted the Lord Below to greater deity status,
Azuth only provided the divine spark. What boosted Asmodeus to Greater Deity was the "tiefling curse" (changing all the tiefling bloodlines in the material plane into "Asmodean" ones) that made him a racial god.
Even that shouldn't have pushed him up that high -- it's not like tieflings are a major race, like humans or elves. And it still doesn't explain how -- or why! -- one deity out of dozens located in the Lower Planes could suddenly push the Pause button on a war that had been going on for longer than recorded history.
That curse also made tieflings a lot less interesting. One of the things that made them interesting before 4E was the fact that no two tieflings were identical, because they all had differing ancestries. Forcing them all into one mold took that away.
It made them really interesting from a racist viewpoint.... hmmm, how can I make EVERYONE like me no matter who I mate with (Mulans... certain elven races...). Maybe if I get a lot of tieflings and begin experimenting on them.... |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Introducing New (Old) Gods
