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AJA
Learned Scribe

USA
180 Posts

Posted - 07 Feb 2019 :  04:08:01  Show Profile Send AJA a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well, I'm reading (the annotated version). Just looked up and it's suddenly one bell to midnight. I seem to be repeatedly distracted by annotations. I also seem to be only 20-some pages in. Ooh, another note! Daerimathlor? I love it. Thank you, Eric.


AJA
YAFRP
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Rymac
Learned Scribe

USA
287 Posts

Posted - 07 Feb 2019 :  04:50:01  Show Profile  Visit Rymac's Homepage Send Rymac a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Eric,

Thanks for sharing this! I never thought we'd ever get to see it.

- Ryan
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Demzer
Senior Scribe

675 Posts

Posted - 07 Feb 2019 :  09:41:04  Show Profile Send Demzer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I just ... I'm floored ... thank you!
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Thieran
Learned Scribe

Germany
293 Posts

Posted - 07 Feb 2019 :  09:58:14  Show Profile Send Thieran a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thanks, Eric! This looks fantastic!
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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer

USA
1348 Posts

Posted - 07 Feb 2019 :  10:27:11  Show Profile  Visit ericlboyd's Homepage Send ericlboyd a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Just want to make sure that folks give equal credit to the folks on the acknowledgement page. Without the help of George, Tom, Mark, Erskine and others, not to mention Ed and Steven, this never would have come together.

--Eric

--
http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/

Edited by - ericlboyd on 07 Feb 2019 10:33:20
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Barastir
Master of Realmslore

Brazil
1510 Posts

Posted - 07 Feb 2019 :  11:26:21  Show Profile  Click to see Barastir's MSN Messenger address Send Barastir a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Great work, thank you for sharing!

"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."

The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood)
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BenN
Senior Scribe

Japan
360 Posts

Posted - 07 Feb 2019 :  12:04:31  Show Profile Send BenN a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Absolutely awesome!
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
4427 Posts

Posted - 07 Feb 2019 :  13:02:23  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Eric,

I just got as far as Daggerfood and the Moonstar Manse. Am I right in thinking that the Moonstar mercantile empire forms the basis of a secret society with the same name, thus explaining how they have agents all over faerun.

Apologies if this is explained later, I'm just a bit over excited about the entire book.

I'm particularly liking Calans Door. I can't wait to find out what it's secret is.

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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer

USA
1348 Posts

Posted - 07 Feb 2019 :  14:59:20  Show Profile  Visit ericlboyd's Homepage Send ericlboyd a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Calan's Door is left up to the DM to detail further, perhaps as a follow-on dungeon to the adventure. If you need more inspiration than what was included, you might look at Kraanfhaor's Door in Lost Empires of Faerun, pages 58-59.

The Moonstar mercantile empire is the far-flung trading holdings of House Moonstar of Waterdeep. There is no relationship to the secret society of the same name ... unless you want there to be.

In general, one of the things Ed has always talked about was how much his original campaign focused on merchants and trade routes and the like. Stuff that always gets cut by adventures focusing on the traditional kill monsters in dungeons. We tried to put a little bit in Powers of Faerun, but there's a lot more potential.

In Under Illefarn Anew, I tried to show the "trenches" of the powerful merchant houses of Waterdeep, focusing on House Hothemar, Moonstar, and Urmbrusk. How exactly do those merchant houses work? Daggerford is but one small stop in holdings of some of the houses, so what drives the wheels of Waterdhavian commerce? In particular, look at the write-ups of Hendar the Scarred (a wheelsqueal), Wheldor "the Stiff" Nondar (a seneschal and hogfattner). Neither are nobles, but both play a typical role in Waterdeep's extended commercial empires. Lord Urmbrusk's direct involvement in Daggerford is the exception, not the rule, for Waterdeep's noble houses. Look also at the place descriptions of Irlentree House and Orlumbor Hall for further explanation of how commerce moves through Daggerford.

quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal

Hi Eric,

I just got as far as Daggerfood and the Moonstar Manse. Am I right in thinking that the Moonstar mercantile empire forms the basis of a secret society with the same name, thus explaining how they have agents all over faerun.

Apologies if this is explained later, I'm just a bit over excited about the entire book.

I'm particularly liking Calans Door. I can't wait to find out what it's secret is.


--
http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
4427 Posts

Posted - 07 Feb 2019 :  15:16:23  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thankyou for the pointers I shall check them out tonight.

I suppose Khelben would never be so foolish as to openly use a trade organisation of the same name. He is more likely to use the Moonstar name as a bluff and pick another trade organisation to hide his contacts within (how else would he have so many agents in such far off places and maintain contact with them).

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Zeromaru X
Master of Realmslore

Colombia
1303 Posts

Posted - 07 Feb 2019 :  18:49:05  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
It caught my attention that the adventure mentions the possibility to "timeshift" the plot to play it in the year of the Ageless One (1479 DR). So, just for funsies I going to make a quick conversion guide to the 4e/5e timeframe. I'll share it as soon as it's finished.

I guess that if I have a doubt or something about the plot (I don't have the original adventure) I'll be asking here or in Eric's questions topic.

Long ago, in the distant past, they fell into decay. The philosopher’s path... The river of glory... Even the saints resting in the darkness rise up without response and block the way...
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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer

USA
1348 Posts

Posted - 07 Feb 2019 :  19:47:44  Show Profile  Visit ericlboyd's Homepage Send ericlboyd a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Sounds great!

quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X

It caught my attention that the adventure mentions the possibility to "timeshift" the plot to play it in the year of the Ageless One (1479 DR). So, just for funsies I going to make a quick conversion guide to the 4e/5e timeframe. I'll share it as soon as it's finished.

I guess that if I have a doubt or something about the plot (I don't have the original adventure) I'll be asking here or in Eric's questions topic.


--
http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
4427 Posts

Posted - 07 Feb 2019 :  19:56:03  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Eric,

Another question (let me know if/when you've had enough).

I notice the obviously celtic influenced names in Daggerford which I realize is in accordance with established lore.

The Celtic approximation in Faerun is the Moonshae Isles, and I'm wondering if there is a way to link the two regions. I have noted the bardic academies of the north are named after bards of renown who are from the Moonshae Isles and I've had a theory that the renowned bards in question left the Moonshae Isles sometime around 900 DR about the time that Daggerford was established.

I'm wondering if you had any thought about a migration of skilled ffolk or a ffolk community established in or near Daggerford early in it's history that might explain the bizarre naming conventions of this small duchy.

Incidentally I've also been wondering if the influx of ffolk bards and rangers helped revive the Harpers in its incarnation around the 900s DR

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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer

USA
1348 Posts

Posted - 07 Feb 2019 :  20:21:44  Show Profile  Visit ericlboyd's Homepage Send ericlboyd a Private Message  Reply with Quote
There is a tie to the Moonshaes. Look at the Alicorn Tower of Mab.

I don't think there was necessarily a large migration of Ffolk to the mainland (unless you want it to). I think it is more likely that the naming scheme comes from the fact that both tie their origins back to common settlers.

--Eric

quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal

Hi Eric,

Another question (let me know if/when you've had enough).

I notice the obviously celtic influenced names in Daggerford which I realize is in accordance with established lore.

The Celtic approximation in Faerun is the Moonshae Isles, and I'm wondering if there is a way to link the two regions. I have noted the bardic academies of the north are named after bards of renown who are from the Moonshae Isles and I've had a theory that the renowned bards in question left the Moonshae Isles sometime around 900 DR about the time that Daggerford was established.

I'm wondering if you had any thought about a migration of skilled ffolk or a ffolk community established in or near Daggerford early in it's history that might explain the bizarre naming conventions of this small duchy.

Incidentally I've also been wondering if the influx of ffolk bards and rangers helped revive the Harpers in its incarnation around the 900s DR


--
http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
32006 Posts

Posted - 07 Feb 2019 :  20:38:01  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The maps of the Shining Vale are beautiful maps, indeed.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Editor and scribe for The Candlekeep Compendium

I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!

Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 07 Feb 2019 21:00:22
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Matrix Sorcica
Learned Scribe

Denmark
83 Posts

Posted - 07 Feb 2019 :  21:33:01  Show Profile Send Matrix Sorcica a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thank you!
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
7942 Posts

Posted - 07 Feb 2019 :  22:47:51  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
“I am waiting for you, Vizzini. You told me to go back to the beginning. So I have. This is where I am, and this is where I will stay. I will not be moved.” The Princess Bride

Lol, so, I just finished quoting to a coworker before turning to this PC... "Have fun storming the castle"... and the first thing I see is the above quote in this PDF.


Oh, and simply because if I make that quote I have to also yell

Humperdink Humperdink Humperdink

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas

Edited by - sleyvas on 07 Feb 2019 22:51:11
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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer

USA
1348 Posts

Posted - 07 Feb 2019 :  23:01:21  Show Profile  Visit ericlboyd's Homepage Send ericlboyd a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

“I am waiting for you, Vizzini. You told me to go back to the beginning. So I have. This is where I am, and this is where I will stay. I will not be moved.” The Princess Bride

Lol, so, I just finished quoting to a coworker before turning to this PC... "Have fun storming the castle"... and the first thing I see is the above quote in this PDF.


Oh, and simply because if I make that quote I have to also yell

Humperdink Humperdink Humperdink



I'm not LIStening! :-)

--
http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/
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Zeromaru X
Master of Realmslore

Colombia
1303 Posts

Posted - 09 Feb 2019 :  02:00:46  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Here's is my first question. During the 4e-5e transition, the Laughing Hollow forest is destroyed (in Ghost of Dragonspear Castle).

Is there any alternative for this forest to place the main adventure in? Or should I focus in adapting this adventure just for the 4e timeline?

Thanks.


Long ago, in the distant past, they fell into decay. The philosopher’s path... The river of glory... Even the saints resting in the darkness rise up without response and block the way...

Edited by - Zeromaru X on 09 Feb 2019 02:02:39
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader

USA
3724 Posts

Posted - 09 Feb 2019 :  02:36:56  Show Profile Send Dalor Darden a Private Message  Reply with Quote


Amazing.

Simply amazing.

Thank you to all who contributed...this is an amazingly crafted work.

AD&D for me!
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
4427 Posts

Posted - 09 Feb 2019 :  09:57:18  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Eric,

It is masterful stuff, I'm in awe of the hag curse and the ghost throne and the interplay between the hidden evils and various events.

It's work like this that I've being trying to emulate for unexplored regions like unther and the Moonshaes.

So I was wondering if you wouldn't mind sharing a few of your secrets so that I and others can improve our craft. How do you come up with the lineages, the events like the hag curse and the sinkhole. How did you detail the nobility and the little people, and how did you come up with that rogue stone twist for the ghost throne.
Do you have a particular strategy or framework or is it unfortunately a case of pure natural talent.

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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer

USA
1348 Posts

Posted - 09 Feb 2019 :  14:15:33  Show Profile  Visit ericlboyd's Homepage Send ericlboyd a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I would imagine you could move Runedardath and the Laughing Hollow to the depths of the northern Misty Forest, along the tree-cloaked edge of the High Moor.

quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X

Here's is my first question. During the 4e-5e transition, the Laughing Hollow forest is destroyed (in Ghost of Dragonspear Castle).

Is there any alternative for this forest to place the main adventure in? Or should I focus in adapting this adventure just for the 4e timeline?

Thanks.




--
http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/
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Gwendion
Acolyte

1 Posts

Posted - 09 Feb 2019 :  16:05:00  Show Profile Send Gwendion a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Dear Eric Boyd,
I'm currently running a campaign in the Delimbiyr Vale using the original N5 module. I've been eagerly scavenging the bits and pieces of legendary Illefarn Anew you dropped here at Candlekeep over the years, hoping against hope to get to see each entire work one day. As a long time lurker, I had to create an account here just let you know how happy and grateful I am and how appreciated your contributions are. Thank you so much for your wonderful work, it adds so much depth to any game in the area and will see much use in mine!
Thank you!
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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer

USA
1348 Posts

Posted - 09 Feb 2019 :  17:12:10  Show Profile  Visit ericlboyd's Homepage Send ericlboyd a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi,

Short answer: Make stuff up. ;-)

Longer answer (for me) is much more complicated.

Basically, there are bunch of implicit rules for Realms design that I try to follow. I'm definitely not Ed, and don't have his gift for weaving new Realmslore out of whole cloth, so I try to follow these rules.

1) Don't try to tell a story. Let the setting tell you a story.

For example, don't suddenly decide that new race of creatures has a heretofore unknown ancient kingdom along the Trade Way from Baldur's Gate to Waterdeep. Instead, figure out what ancient kingdoms of weird races have been discussed before and build off that.

2) Don't invent something new if there's something existing that could be used instead.

Don't create a new noble house of elves if you can extend an existing one.

3) Don't blow stuff up you didn't invent.

I hate it when another author blows something up I built <cough> Ched Nasad </cough>, so don't do it to others. I'm more tolerant of it with novelists than game designers. Likewise I try not to invalidate something another author has created, even if I don't like it <cough> heavy magic </cough>.

4) Gather *all* the references and make them work together.

If there's a continuity error (e.g. 2 Wulgreths), make a story that uses the existing facts, don't paper over the error. In general, continuity errors and weird side facts are the scaffolding on which to build the story.

Likewise if there is an obscure fact, weave it in, don't ignore it.

5) Keep to the theme of the setting.

The realms is a human-dominated world, so the population should be mostly human, unless there's a real reason otherwise. There have never been orc wizards in the world, so don't create them. Orc warlocks, on the other hand ...

6) Think through the consequences.

Don't create a tougher monster over the next hill without being prepared to explain why it hasn't killed the creatures closer in.

7) If you can find a way to bring in another existing story, do so.

If you need a half-fiend, don't just make one up. Figure out if there's an obscure fiend who logically would have sired the half-fiend.

I'm sure there are other rules, but that's a good start.

For example, I wanted to create the ruined manor of a gold elf family in the High Forest that would be a good site for adventurers to explore. Questions that come to mind: Which family built the manor? Why did they leave? Where do they live now? Why don't they just go back?

First, I settled on House Imesfor, briefly alluded to in the novel Forsake House. All we know is that a gold elf High Mage is a member of the Hill Elders of Evereska. They seem like a good fit and they are lacking any other mention in Realsmlore. Let's flush them out some.

Second, I decided their primary base was Evereska after leaving High Forest. (Makes a certain amount of "story" sense. Evereska is relatively near.)

Third, I had to figure out why they left. The Slaughter of Sharrven seems like a likely event. So that explains why the gold elves abandoned the High Forest, and the timing works with Evereska already existing and gives me an excuse for leaving a weird, long-lived monster in their place.

Fourth, I had to figure out why the scions of House Imesfor haven't returned. If they have an elven high mage in the family, it can't be a random monster, as he would easily defeat almost any monster, without making it an epic level foe. And an epic level foe would be hard to explain why they weren't a bigger deal in the surrounding area. So, the monster should be relatively weak, but yet unbeatable by a High Mage. That sounds like there is a story reason keeping the High Mage from attacking it.

So what monster? Rather than pick some creature at random, I started looking through the various monster manuals. Very few mention the High Forest except the Briarvex in MM IV. But I don't really like that write-up, as it implies they were dropped in recently without explanation and have a tie to the Jungles of Chult, none of whcih fits my ancient gold house manor. I keep looking and find the burrow root in MM V, with a sample entry that matches that refers to briarvex, so indirect proof that burrow roots are in the High Forest. Burrow roots feel a little more Realmsian and appropriate for the High Forest, but are not strong enough or interesting enough on their own. Keep looking.

I then went to FR5 - The Savage Frontier looking for ideas. On page 15, there's a list of monsters in the High Forest, including the forlarren, which I've never done anything with or seen anyone else discuss in the context of the High Forest. That's a monster from the AD&D1 FF, which was never written up again. I go look at it and it turns out, using 3e terminology, it's a half-devil slyph that looks like a satyr (at least in the picture). Since slyphs live in the mountains and there's no backstory of devils in the High Forest, it seems like a poor choice. However, it's existing Realmslore, so let's make it work. (To be fair to the original author, they didn't have a long list of monsters to work with back then.) Looking further, it's a weird broken monster, with the largely unusable trait that it regrets killing adventurers after it kills the first one. At least it's an interesting story, but it should have been a one off, not a monster manual entry.

Now the question is, where does this forlarren come from and what's its ancestry.

Well, it probably was deposited there by a snatch-portal during the Slaughter of Sharrven. That explains the non-local origin of the spawn of a slyph and a devil. As for it's backstory, we can build in some other Realmslore. I remember there's a picture of a satyr-looking devil in Dragon #91 who is an outcast duke of Hell who often visited the Realms in ages past. (An article written by Ed Greenwood.) Sounds like the perfect diabolic father.

What should we name it? I looked at George's elven dictionary assembled from Steven and Ed to build a name.

And Voila! We have our story.

Here's what I came up with:

Tumbledtrees
In the depths of the High Forest, some 40 miles north northeast of the Old Trees, lies the long-abandoned estate of House Imesfor. The central mansion consists of a ring of massive, petrified oak trees, knocked down in some ancient battle of wyrms, to form a giant’s crown, from the perspective of a cloud giant’s floating keep.
Millennia ago, the Fair Folk of House Imesfor hollowed out the ring of trees to form a massive circular fortress. In the the center of the ring, they built a tall spire of living, writhing vines surrounded by gardens of exotic flora from far-off jungles. Individual residences were tucked within the writhing vines for all of noble blood.
When the Slaughter of Sharrven began, all manner of monstrous beasts started appearing across the estate of House Imesfor. Every last elf would have been slaughtered during the ensuing mayhem if one of the attacking monsters hadn’t abruptly started defending the gold elf residents for a period of time, despite periodically reverting to form and attacking the Fair Folk.
In the end, the creature, whom the survivors later took to calling Jaquon’sum the Forlarren (elvish for “son of Jaquon” and “forlorn and tormented beast”), saved the lives of the remaining Fair Folk of House Imesfor by giving them time to escape. In exchange, as the rest of the house fled, the highest-ranking Imesfor scion pledged that the Forlarren could “dwell within this tumble of trees until the bloody hand of death claimed it too,” not realizing that the creature, sired by a sylph and the duke of Hell formerly known as Jaquon, was effectively immortal.
While the scions of House Imesfor have never directly or indirectly taken up arms against the Forlarren, honoring the terms of their ancient pact, others have from time to time. And while a few bold adventurers have claimed to have slain the beast, the Forlarren always reappears, filled with woe and tormented by his misery. Jaquon’sum commands a large and growing colony of burrow roots, making travel through the fallen estate extremely dangerous.

Now, just do it again and again and again and you start to detail a region.

quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal

Hi Eric,

It is masterful stuff, I'm in awe of the hag curse and the ghost throne and the interplay between the hidden evils and various events.

It's work like this that I've being trying to emulate for unexplored regions like unther and the Moonshaes.

So I was wondering if you wouldn't mind sharing a few of your secrets so that I and others can improve our craft. How do you come up with the lineages, the events like the hag curse and the sinkhole. How did you detail the nobility and the little people, and how did you come up with that rogue stone twist for the ghost throne.
Do you have a particular strategy or framework or is it unfortunately a case of pure natural talent.


--
http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/

Edited by - ericlboyd on 09 Feb 2019 18:09:33
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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer

USA
1348 Posts

Posted - 09 Feb 2019 :  17:15:18  Show Profile  Visit ericlboyd's Homepage Send ericlboyd a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Glad you like it!

quote:
Originally posted by Gwendion

Dear Eric Boyd,
I'm currently running a campaign in the Delimbiyr Vale using the original N5 module. I've been eagerly scavenging the bits and pieces of legendary Illefarn Anew you dropped here at Candlekeep over the years, hoping against hope to get to see each entire work one day. As a long time lurker, I had to create an account here just let you know how happy and grateful I am and how appreciated your contributions are. Thank you so much for your wonderful work, it adds so much depth to any game in the area and will see much use in mine!
Thank you!


--
http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/
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