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Alexander Clark
Learned Scribe

84 Posts

Posted - 31 Jan 2019 :  16:41:52  Show Profile Send Alexander Clark a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
I can't find a single canon Half-Orc Wizard. Why is that?
I know Half-Orcs tend to be less smart than Humans (though AFAIK they don't even get an intelligence penalty in 5e), but they still can have high intelligence score. I don't think there could be a cultural explanation either cause many Half-Orcs seem to assimilate into Human cultures. So why haven't we heard about a Half-Orc Wizard? Heck, there are more Dwarf Wizards nowadays.

Is there a good reason why Half-Orcs can't become Wizards or were they just overlooked? For example I remember some sages complaining about a lack of high-level Thieves in the Realms
quote:
Originally posted by Seravin

I've noticed a lack of epic level (20+ by 2ED terms) rogues in the Realms. You'd think among the long-lived races like elves there'd be a few. The rogues must live dangerous lives because I don't think I can name 3 rogues listed at 20+ in the 2nd edition realms books. The Cult of the Dragon leaders were all 20+ fighter, cleric, mage (dead now) except the rogue who was in his mid-teens I believe, for 1 example. The leader of the rogue guild in Amn was very high level, but drawing a blank on others...


Edited by - Alexander Clark on 31 Jan 2019 16:42:51

sleyvas
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Posted - 31 Jan 2019 :  17:02:50  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
in 5e, I may be wrong, but I don't think ANY standard race has an ability score penalty. For half-orcs, if a reason had to be created, there may be a stigma to wizardry because of sheer time involved. Since they live roughly 25% shorter lives than humans, the time investment into studying wizardry (assuming it would take them just as long to learn it) might be a good reason for them to disdain pursuing the path versus quicker paths to magic (clerical, druidic, warlocks, etc...). Also, being half-orcs, many of them are the result of rape and may not be well viewed within society (i.e. you may let them live amongst you and serve as soldiers, but you don't waste valuable class space that could be given to a "full blooded human"). We may all want to think that the realms is race-blind, but that's not the case.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Alexander Clark
Learned Scribe

84 Posts

Posted - 31 Jan 2019 :  17:11:40  Show Profile Send Alexander Clark a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Since they live roughly 25% shorter lives than humans, the time investment into studying wizardry (assuming it would take them just as long to learn it) might be a good reason for them to disdain pursuing the path versus quicker paths to magic (clerical, druidic, warlocks, etc...).

Isn't wizardry also the easiest way to achieve immortality? It would seem tempting for a Half-Orc.

quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Also, being half-orcs, many of them are the result of rape and may not be well viewed within society (i.e. you may let them live amongst you and serve as soldiers, but you don't waste valuable class space that could be given to a "full blooded human"). We may all want to think that the realms is race-blind, but that's not the case.


I'd think at least a few Half-Orcs would have a parent influential/rich enough to be able to pay for their training. I also think some Half-Orcs even might have a parent who is a wizard.
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sleyvas
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Posted - 31 Jan 2019 :  17:41:53  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Alexander Clark

quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Since they live roughly 25% shorter lives than humans, the time investment into studying wizardry (assuming it would take them just as long to learn it) might be a good reason for them to disdain pursuing the path versus quicker paths to magic (clerical, druidic, warlocks, etc...).

Isn't wizardry also the easiest way to achieve immortality? It would seem tempting for a Half-Orc.

quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Also, being half-orcs, many of them are the result of rape and may not be well viewed within society (i.e. you may let them live amongst you and serve as soldiers, but you don't waste valuable class space that could be given to a "full blooded human"). We may all want to think that the realms is race-blind, but that's not the case.


I'd think at least a few Half-Orcs would have a parent influential/rich enough to be able to pay for their training. I also think some Half-Orcs even might have a parent who is a wizard.



Agreed, I don't doubt that there are probably SOME half-orc wizards. That being said, I wouldn't be surprised if it were exceptionally rare. Half-orcs themselves should be pretty rare, and I'd note that many are raised in temples because parents simply don't want to deal with them because they remind them of a rape (or remind their HUSBANDs of how their wives were raped). Also, comparing having dwarven wizards to half-orc wizards in numbers shouldn't be a comparison made, because there should be a lot of orcs.. a decent number of dwarves... a lot of humans... but half-orcs themselves should be a rarity. After all, half-elves would OFTEN be viewed by human parents as a bit of a treasure (maybe not by elven mothers), but half-orcs will carry a stigma. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of them die in the womb because a human mother simply wants to abort the fetus rather than raise it. Orc mothers may not have an issue with them, but I also don't see a lot of human males raping orc females

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Alexander Clark
Learned Scribe

84 Posts

Posted - 31 Jan 2019 :  18:31:29  Show Profile Send Alexander Clark a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
because there should be a lot of orcs.. a decent number of dwarves... a lot of humans... but half-orcs themselves should be a rarity.

Do we have numbers? I'd think in major cities like Waterdeep Half-Orc population should be comparable to Dwarves/Elves cause those races tend to live among themselves. Half-Orcs are probably more likely to go on adventures too, but that's just my speculation. :)

quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
After all, half-elves would OFTEN be viewed by human parents as a bit of a treasure (maybe not by elven mothers), but half-orcs will carry a stigma. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of them die in the womb because a human mother simply wants to abort the fetus rather than raise it. Orc mothers may not have an issue with them, but I also don't see a lot of human males raping orc females


Ed himself said that rape is not necessary
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
And let me echo THO again when I say: yes, indeed, there are many romances between goblinkin and other races, and, ahem, “voluntary unions” (I wish you’d provided that handy term when I was a randy high school-aged lad) aplenty, too.


I'd also think that some Human male screwing an Orcish servant lady seems possible.

BTW how do Half-Orcs breed? I can't exactly remember. Would two Half-Orcs result in a Half-Orc? What about mixing a Human and a Half-Orc?

Edited by - Alexander Clark on 31 Jan 2019 18:32:56
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Ayrik
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Canada
6824 Posts

Posted - 31 Jan 2019 :  19:13:23  Show Profile Send Ayrik a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Not 5E ...

Half-orcs were a playable race option in 1E (PHB, DMG, UA). The PC half-orcs were assumed to be the "best" 10% of the population - intelligent and civilized enough to survive in human societies, strong and savage enough to survive in orc societies - so they were (just barely) tolerated in both societies. The remaining 90% would be too stupid, vicious, brutish, and ugly - they'd simply be treated as monsters - humans and orcs may both be fine species but they (usually) do not always mix well.

2E (PHBR10) built up from this in some detail. But no orc-blooded wizards or mages. Only shamans or clerics (with level caps).

But then again there is an orc paladin of Torm in Realmslore. So unique individuals could exist. And both AD&D editions had rules for creating unique "classes" which could possess magic-using abilities.

Orcs of course do not have any sort of magical schools or academies. Orc power is jealously guarded by orc chiefs and orc shamans, the strong rule the weak, they will always subjugate or remove any emerging threats to their power.

[/Ayrik]

Edited by - Ayrik on 31 Jan 2019 19:39:24
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Alexander Clark
Learned Scribe

84 Posts

Posted - 31 Jan 2019 :  19:33:22  Show Profile Send Alexander Clark a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
2E (PHBR10) built up from this in some detail. But no orc-blooded wizards or mages. Only shamans or clerics (with level caps).

2e had a lot of race/class restrictions. I am not quite sure which of them are based on lore and which are just "game mechanics." I think Halflings can't be Paladins in 2e. :)
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Ayrik
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Canada
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Posted - 31 Jan 2019 :  19:42:45  Show Profile Send Ayrik a Private Message  Reply with Quote
2E's race/class restrictions were actually based on 1E's greater restrictions. I think initially based on 1E game mechanics - the idea was to impose upper limits on demihumans to explain why they didn't completely dominate the world and to make boring humans a choice worth choosing.

[/Ayrik]
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Alexander Clark
Learned Scribe

84 Posts

Posted - 31 Jan 2019 :  19:58:16  Show Profile Send Alexander Clark a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik

2E's race/class restrictions were actually based on 1E's greater restrictions. I think initially based on 1E game mechanics - the idea was to impose upper limits on demihumans to explain why they didn't completely dominate the world and to make boring humans a choice worth choosing.


Yes, but I think there was a lore explanation why Dwarves can't be Wizards. Then Thunder Blessing happened (though I found some info about ancient Dwarf Wizards.)
I am not sure if other 2e era restrictions had a basis like that or if they were just "game mechanics."
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
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Posted - 01 Feb 2019 :  03:22:05  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Scribe Kuje, who is not as active here as he once was, compiled lists of all the NPCs mentioned in 1E/2E and 3E sources.

I just went though those lists. I found half-orc clerics and rogues and martial types, but only one arcane caster: Tharag the Devoted. He's a Shar-worshipping monk/sorcerer. There's no background to him; he's just a stat block on pages 163-4 of the 3E Lords of Darkness.

I've been fiddling with a half-orc wizard NPC myself, but I've not done much with him... I need a purpose for my NPCs; if they don't have a purpose, I generally never take it past the rough idea stage. Since I don't know what to do with this NPC, he's little more than a rough visual in my head.

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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 01 Feb 2019 03:22:29
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LordofBones
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Posted - 01 Feb 2019 :  15:18:03  Show Profile Send LordofBones a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Orc culture doesn't really place an emphasis on book learning. I'd wager on spontaneous casters or prepared divine casters being more widespread.

In Pathfinder terms, more magi and warpriests than wizards. If you're using PF, there's no reason why there would be orc witches; mechanically, they're similar to wizards as prepared Int casters, but from fluff and build perspectives, they're more into ooga-booga bad juju mumbo jumbo than the wizard's 'I snap reality over my knee by reading a book'.

Edited by - LordofBones on 01 Feb 2019 15:18:39
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sleyvas
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USA
8135 Posts

Posted - 01 Feb 2019 :  16:10:25  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Alexander Clark

quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
because there should be a lot of orcs.. a decent number of dwarves... a lot of humans... but half-orcs themselves should be a rarity.

Do we have numbers? I'd think in major cities like Waterdeep Half-Orc population should be comparable to Dwarves/Elves cause those races tend to live among themselves. Half-Orcs are probably more likely to go on adventures too, but that's just my speculation. :)

quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
After all, half-elves would OFTEN be viewed by human parents as a bit of a treasure (maybe not by elven mothers), but half-orcs will carry a stigma. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of them die in the womb because a human mother simply wants to abort the fetus rather than raise it. Orc mothers may not have an issue with them, but I also don't see a lot of human males raping orc females


Ed himself said that rape is not necessary
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
And let me echo THO again when I say: yes, indeed, there are many romances between goblinkin and other races, and, ahem, “voluntary unions” (I wish you’d provided that handy term when I was a randy high school-aged lad) aplenty, too.


I'd also think that some Human male screwing an Orcish servant lady seems possible.

BTW how do Half-Orcs breed? I can't exactly remember. Would two Half-Orcs result in a Half-Orc? What about mixing a Human and a Half-Orc?



To be clear, the below is specific to the idea that human males may love an orc female. The same might be said of human females loving an orc male, but I find that even harder to believe, given how orc males treat orc females.

Possible. Not probable. By that I mean it will be an extreme rarity for A) a human male to impregnate an orc female and then B) said half-orc child then possess the want/skills/opportunity to become a wizard. It CAN happen. Its just going to be so exceedingly rare that I wouldn't be surprised if there were less than a handful throughout the entire realms. Of those who DO go this path, how many would actually survive to attain notoriety (given that many adventurers die young, and half-orcs face other societal hardships... for instance, if a human had a single potion of healing/spell of curing, would they give it to the human or the half-orc first in a crisis.... prejudice is an ugly thing, but we all must understand that it does exist).

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas

Edited by - sleyvas on 01 Feb 2019 16:15:41
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Alexander Clark
Learned Scribe

84 Posts

Posted - 01 Feb 2019 :  19:19:43  Show Profile Send Alexander Clark a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I've been fiddling with a half-orc wizard NPC myself, but I've not done much with him...


I've been thinking about playing a Half-Orc and that's why I went to research stuff. Unfortunately, Half-Orcs don't seem to have a sourcebook like Elves of Evermeet or even a novel. Heck, even Tieflings seem to have more novels.
At first I was going to make my Half-Orc a Fighter, but now I am interested in a Half-Orc Wizard since lore seems to lack those. BTW is Adventuring the right place to get feedback on character concepts?

quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones
Orc culture doesn't really place an emphasis on book learning. I'd wager on spontaneous casters or prepared divine casters being more widespread.


But I thought Half-Orcs raised in human cities assimilate almost completely (even if many people still treat them badly.)

quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
To be clear, the below is specific to the idea that human males may love an orc female. The same might be said of human females loving an orc male, but I find that even harder to believe, given how orc males treat orc females.


Actually we have at least a single example of Human Female x Orc Male romance.
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
Dathanae Oumrau, a CG female human Wiz16 of Everlund (formerly of Neverwinter) was an adventuring wizardess who mastered shapechanging spells, and used them both to experience things she couldn’t as a human, and ultimately to escape being killed when her adventuring band got slaughtered in a winter battle with orcs (she took orc shape to “hide”). The orcs captured her, assumed she was an orc of another tribe, “enjoyed” her - - and one of them, Aeriskul by name, took a shine to her, took her as “his,” and defended her against the others. Eventually Aeriskul (who hungered to learn more of “civilized” life and ways, seeing nothing he liked in raiding every winter out of cold caves when he could live peacefully [he hoped] down in the farms year-round) parted ways with the others, but kept the shapechanged Dathanae - - and deliberately changed his behaviour from “you are mine” to wooing her. Whereupon Dathanae revealed her true nature to him. Aeriskul was scared of her at first, and tried to flee and hide, but Dathanae followed him, and a tentative courtship began that ended with the two of them happily in love, and using the shapechanging to both enhance their lovemaking and to enable them to accomplish many things (from reaching down high-in-trees fruit to changing shape so as to pass among humans without trouble) as they try to make a life together. Dathanae and Aeriskul are still together, after some twelve winters, and are very happy (they do not have any children, but Aeriskul doesn’t particularly want any, and so has never even asked Dathanae if she might be barren, or if she’s using magic to prevent conception).


There is also an example of Female Moon Elf x Male Orc romance. On the other hand I can't find any canon cases of a Human Male x Orc Female romances, so I am just writing how I think it could work. That's why I also wonder about Orcs living in cities in a thread nearby - I think Orcs living in cities would make romance or at least intercourse between Humans and Orc more likely.

Edited by - Alexander Clark on 01 Feb 2019 19:20:47
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TBeholder
Master of Realmslore

1837 Posts

Posted - 03 Feb 2019 :  00:12:39  Show Profile Send TBeholder a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Alexander Clark

At first I was going to make my Half-Orc a Fighter, but now I am interested in a Half-Orc Wizard since lore seems to lack those.

Some things were not made not because no one figured they could, but because everyone who could could figured they shouldn't.
Anyway, in classic, they can't be wizards, but in Zakhara IIRC Sha-ir and Mechanician kits aren't restricted to those who normally can become wizards.
quote:
But I thought Half-Orcs raised in human cities assimilate almost completely (even if many people still treat them badly.)

This depends on the city, doesn't it?
Speaking of Zakhara, there this problem doesn't exist at all, for one.
quote:
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
To be clear, the below is specific to the idea that human males may love an orc female. The same might be said of human females loving an orc male, but I find that even harder to believe, given how orc males treat orc females.

Actually we have at least a single example of Human Female x Orc Male romance.

And then there's Queen Bertha.
I mean, tastes differ. Some people like dragons a bit too much, after all. Just doesn't happen every day.

People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch
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Diffan
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USA
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Posted - 03 Feb 2019 :  02:09:18  Show Profile Send Diffan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Alexander Clark



Is there a good reason why Half-Orcs can't become Wizards or were they just overlooked?



Probably because the rules really pushed against the notion up until 4e and 5e where they no longer received penalties to Intelligence. Even Sorcery, which doesn't rely on Intelligence but Charisma, wasn't popular til 4e since half-orcs were hit with a penalty there too.

That being said, a half-orc wizard in 5e would be pretty cool and I could see them having some old grimoire made of questionable substances.

4E Realms = Great Taste, Less Filling.

"If WotC were to put out a box of free money, people would still complain how it was folded."
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Alexander Clark
Learned Scribe

84 Posts

Posted - 03 Feb 2019 :  19:49:12  Show Profile Send Alexander Clark a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
I mean, tastes differ. Some people like dragons a bit too much, after all. Just doesn't happen every day.


I thought Dragon steamy action usually happens when Dragons shapeshift into "normal" Human/Elven/whatever forms, so it doesn't happen often cause Dragons are rare and some are just not into that.
Update: Isn't dragon ancestry a common source of Sorcerer's power anyway?

quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
Probably because the rules really pushed against the notion up until 4e and 5e where they no longer received penalties to Intelligence.


But Elven penalties to Con did not prevent them from being Fighters, did they?
Also when choosing between an optimal build and a good story I'd usually go with a good story. :)

Edited by - Alexander Clark on 03 Feb 2019 21:15:50
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Dalor Darden
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Posted - 04 Feb 2019 :  04:59:42  Show Profile Send Dalor Darden a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I can't remember the issue of Dragon at the moment; but in it Orcs could be wizards.

Half-Orcs by that same token would seem to be capable of being Wizards as well...well, Magic-Users per 1e AD&D.

The level cap I think was 5th and then only for an Orc with a truly exceptional Intelligence.

I'll try to find the magazine in question.

AD&D for me!
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Ayrik
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Canada
6824 Posts

Posted - 04 Feb 2019 :  05:47:51  Show Profile Send Ayrik a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Is there a good reason why Half-Orcs can't become Wizards or were they just overlooked?
Tradition.

D&D-type fantasy settings were heavily influenced by Tolkien's Middle Earth fantasy setting plus all sorts of folklore and mythology (along with other fantasy-genre stuff inspired by these things). Classic orcs are brutish, aggressive, monstrous, bestial versions of humanity - the worst and most vile aspects of humanity. They tend to be stupid (yet cunning) and have no aptitude for magic, they tend to fear and disdain it in preference to good old mud, blood, steel, fire, and pain. They tend to jealously guard their power and bully things they don't understand. They're often minions created to serve some sort of dark power.

Compared against wizards (and priests) who are typically depicted as the most noble, disciplined, enlightened, and gifted members of races (like humans and elves) who must combat evil and encroaching darkness. Even within these races magic use is often restricted to rare individuals.

You could easily have orc (and half-orc) wizards in your gaming but purists might argue that it's not really D&D or the Realms. Just like purists might argue that Stars Wars (space wizards with magic swords) is not really sci-fi. If you choose to strictly adhere to "canon" then you'll find very few (if any) orc wizards to support your position, they're just too anomalous ... but if you choose to ignore canon who cares about canon and just enjoy your gaming any way you like.

[/Ayrik]

Edited by - Ayrik on 04 Feb 2019 08:38:33
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LordofBones
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909 Posts

Posted - 04 Feb 2019 :  12:35:36  Show Profile Send LordofBones a Private Message  Reply with Quote
To be honest, if you really want prepared Int-based casters, I'd suggest the Witch class from Pathfinder. I don't see orcs in the Realms having the kind of temperament for straight book-learning without being heavily human or elven influenced.

Meanwhile, witches are all about ooga-booga mumbo jumbo and creepy curses.

If you're set on orcish wizards, I'd suggest evocation and necromancy spells being preferred. Less on the undead, more on the curses and debuffs, too.
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Alexander Clark
Learned Scribe

84 Posts

Posted - 04 Feb 2019 :  14:04:07  Show Profile Send Alexander Clark a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
D&D-type fantasy settings were heavily influenced by Tolkien's Middle Earth fantasy setting plus all sorts of folklore and mythology (along with other fantasy-genre stuff inspired by these things).


I am not sure Tolkien traditions matter in a setting with Elven Warlocks, Menzoberranzan Rangers, Orc Paladins and Tiefling Rangers


quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones
I don't see orcs in the Realms having the kind of temperament for straight book-learning without being heavily human or elven influenced.


While most Half-Orc live among Orcs, I always thought there is a decent amount of them living among Humans. Don't those Half-Orcs assimilate or try to assimilate into Human cultures?
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sleyvas
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USA
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Posted - 04 Feb 2019 :  15:11:03  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Alexander Clark

quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
I mean, tastes differ. Some people like dragons a bit too much, after all. Just doesn't happen every day.


I thought Dragon steamy action usually happens when Dragons shapeshift into "normal" Human/Elven/whatever forms, so it doesn't happen often cause Dragons are rare and some are just not into that.



Yet a lot of dragons can't shapechange naturally, and those same dragons seem to have just as many half-dragon children as the shapechanging ones. I've pretty much gotten the idea that dragons will mate with just about anything, even a soft and pliant bit of clay if allowed to, and doing so might even endow it with magical properties.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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sleyvas
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USA
8135 Posts

Posted - 04 Feb 2019 :  15:12:43  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Alexander Clark

quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
I mean, tastes differ. Some people like dragons a bit too much, after all. Just doesn't happen every day.


I thought Dragon steamy action usually happens when Dragons shapeshift into "normal" Human/Elven/whatever forms, so it doesn't happen often cause Dragons are rare and some are just not into that.



Yet a lot of dragons can't shapechange naturally, and those same dragons seem to have just as many half-dragon children as the shapechanging ones. I've pretty much gotten the idea that dragons will mate with just about anything, even a soft and pliant bit of clay if allowed to, and doing so might even endow it with magical properties.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Alexander Clark
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84 Posts

Posted - 04 Feb 2019 :  15:17:22  Show Profile Send Alexander Clark a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Yet a lot of dragons can't shapechange naturally, and those same dragons seem to have just as many half-dragon children as the shapechanging ones.


Thank you kindly. I did not know that, but then most of my D&D Dragon knowledge comes from Dragolance and I just assumed that FR is somewhat similar.
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Zeromaru X
Master of Realmslore

Colombia
1347 Posts

Posted - 04 Feb 2019 :  20:02:32  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Alexander Clark

quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
D&D-type fantasy settings were heavily influenced by Tolkien's Middle Earth fantasy setting plus all sorts of folklore and mythology (along with other fantasy-genre stuff inspired by these things).


I am not sure Tolkien traditions matter in a setting with Elven Warlocks, Menzoberranzan Rangers, Orc Paladins and Tiefling Rangers



You may be surprised, but even how gods work in D&D is based in Tolkienisms (read "Down to Earth: Divinity" by Ed Greenwood, from one of the classic Dragon mags).

Long ago, in the distant past, they fell into decay. The philosopher’s path... The river of glory... Even the saints resting in the darkness rise up without response and block the way...
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Diffan
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Posted - 05 Feb 2019 :  01:17:10  Show Profile Send Diffan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Alexander Clark

quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
Probably because the rules really pushed against the notion up until 4e and 5e where they no longer received penalties to Intelligence.


But Elven penalties to Con did not prevent them from being Fighters, did they?


True but all that nets you is some extra HP and a better Fort save. Intelligence is far more important to the wizard class for spells known (you need 11+ to cast spells of 1st level qnd higher) and save DCs. Not to mention you can pad low Con with good AC and magic where as you simply can't with Spellcasters.

quote:
Originally posted by Alexander Clark

Also when choosing between an optimal build and a good story I'd usually go with a good story. :)



Sure, but the two aren't mutually exclusive. And of course you can write any story any way you want and not really follow the rules for the game.
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Alexander Clark
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Posted - 05 Feb 2019 :  01:33:36  Show Profile Send Alexander Clark a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
Sure, but the two aren't mutually exclusive. And of course you can write any story any way you want and not really follow the rules for the game.


I just hate breaking established lore unless absolutely necessary. That's why I made the thread. Well, I am also just interested why we totally lack a legal core race + class combo in the lore.

I saw a few good reasons why Half-Orc Wizards are rare but no reasons why they are impossible so I'll probably go with that character concept. :)

BTW if I had to figure out a reason why Half-Orcs should not be Wizards I'd probably say "tusks prevent them from properly reciting verbal components of spells."

Edited by - Alexander Clark on 05 Feb 2019 01:36:38
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