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Divinity
Seeker

USA
22 Posts

Posted - 10 Dec 2018 :  06:06:48  Show Profile Send Divinity a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
So, yes, I know what the easy answer to this is as I've probably looked at every map made of FaerŻn over the past month, or at least it feels like it! However, what I've found is that, so far, every map puts Laughing Hollow at the base of Mount Illefarn on the north side of the river. In the Waterdeep pdf it also places it here on the map. However, the only place where I've seen the location of Laughing Hollow written in text is page 145 of Lost Empires of FaerŻn. It specifically states Laughing Hollow is on the SOUTH side of the river, just inside the northwestern edge of the Misty Forest. It also states that the ruins of the dwarfhold are under the hills to the east of Daggerford, which sounds a lot like the Sword Hills which are also south of the river.

So aside from every map putting it north of the river, are there any sources actually describing Laughing Hollow and Mount Illefarn as being on the north side? I've looked through everything I can find and can't find anything.

-Craig

George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
5431 Posts

Posted - 10 Dec 2018 :  14:32:15  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The issue arises not so much because of where the Laughing Hollow is (it has always been north of the river - the reference in LEoF is wrong), but whether Daggerford was north or south of the river. Every detailed map of the settlement has shown it north of the river while every map of the region has had it south. In his unpublished re-do of the old "Under Illefarn" adventure, Eric Boyd dealt with this conundrum thusly:

Dagger Island

Although almost no one thinks of it as such, the town of Daggerford lies atop an island between two channels of the River Delimbiyr. Dagger Island, as it is known, is demarked by two hills: a larger, granite plug to the east (upstream), known as Dagger Hill, and a smaller, earthen hill to the west (downstream), known as Tannersí Hill.
The southern border of Dagger Island is formed by the main channel of the River Delimbiyr, and connected to the Open Marches to the south by (downstream) the Shining Bridge and (upstream) Dagger Ford (for which the town is named). The northern border of Dagger Island is a normally a small creek-like flow, known as Dagger Creek, that wraps around the northern side of Dagger Hill and Tannersí Hill. During the spring floods, Dagger Creek floods the low-lying farmland to the north, broadening into a knee-deep, sluggish flow, usually much wider than the main channel of the River Delimbiyr at the same point.
Atop the summit of Dagger Hill lie the ruins of Morlin Castle (#T22), now thought to be haunted and largely avoided, except for a small observation post and garrison of the dukeís soldiers. Any access to the dungeons of Morlin Castle from these ruins was collapsed long ago, although rumors speak of access into the dungeons from the catacombs beneath Castle Daggerford (#T10).
The town of Daggerford, including Castle Daggerford, lies on the western flank of Dagger Hill, as detailed below. After Daggerford was rebuilt in the Year of the Black Horde (1235 DR), a small, roughly north-south channel was carved from Dagger Creek to the main channel of the River Delimbiyr to serve as a moat along the northern and western walls of the town. This moat is also sometimes called Dagger Creek, which causes some confusion.
The Tannery (#T21) lies on the southeast flank of Tannersí Hill, and its wastewater runs down the southern flank of Tannersí Hill, into the River Delimbiyr.
From the north, the Trade Way runs across Dagger Creek (which is easily waded, even during the spring floods) between Dagger Hill and Tannersí Hill (closer to Dagger Hill and the town of Daggerford) and then across the Shining Bridge (or the Dagger Ford) to the Open Marches to the south. The sandy plain between Tannersí Hill and Dagger Hill (west of the Trade Way) is known as the Caravan Grounds (#T20), and is less prone to flooding than the farmlands to the north of Dagger Creek.
The Shining Trail leads north from the Farmerís Gate on the northern wall of the town of Daggerford, across another easily waded part of Dagger Creek and into the rich farmlands and rolling foothills to the north and east, eventually petering out near the western edge of the Laughing Hollow.

Given the above, Daggerford is sometimes north of the river and sometimes south depending on the extent of the Spring floods. Clear as mud? Thought so.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus

Edited by - George Krashos on 10 Dec 2018 14:33:16
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Divinity
Seeker

USA
22 Posts

Posted - 10 Dec 2018 :  20:50:12  Show Profile Send Divinity a Private Message  Reply with Quote
That's great info! A bit of adjusting and I think I have it all laid out as described. Though a nice circle for Daggerford keeps me from having to detail too much! Thanks.
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JohnLynch
Learned Scribe

Australia
243 Posts

Posted - 10 Dec 2018 :  21:23:04  Show Profile Send JohnLynch a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

In his unpublished re-do of the old "Under Illefarn" adventure, Eric Boyd dealt with this conundrum thusly:
Is there any hope of that getting published by Eric on DMs Guild? Or is that no longer an option/something Eric isn't interested in doing.

DM of the Realms: A blog for my Forgotten Realms adventures.
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
5431 Posts

Posted - 11 Dec 2018 :  02:17:46  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Much of it was cannibalised by WotC for their "Ghosts of Dragonspear Castle" adventure. And it's 3E. So the short answer is ... no, not very likely.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus

Edited by - George Krashos on 11 Dec 2018 07:26:05
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Thauramarth
Senior Scribe

United Kingdom
665 Posts

Posted - 11 Dec 2018 :  06:45:16  Show Profile Send Thauramarth a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

So the short answer is ... no, very likely.

-- George Krashos

Reason tells me there is a typo here, hope implores that there is not?

Club Secretary of the Dragons on the Hill RPG Club of London, UK: http://dragonsonthehill.co.uk/.
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
5431 Posts

Posted - 11 Dec 2018 :  07:26:41  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Thauramarth

quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

So the short answer is ... no, very likely.

-- George Krashos

Reason tells me there is a typo here, hope implores that there is not?



Edited for clarity. "Not very likely".

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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JohnLynch
Learned Scribe

Australia
243 Posts

Posted - 11 Dec 2018 :  11:49:38  Show Profile Send JohnLynch a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

Much of it was cannibalised by WotC for their "Ghosts of Dragonspear Castle" adventure. And it's 3E. So the short answer is ... no, not very likely.

-- George Krashos

That's a shame.

DM of the Realms: A blog for my Forgotten Realms adventures.
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Storyteller Hero
Learned Scribe

USA
142 Posts

Posted - 12 Dec 2018 :  09:04:10  Show Profile  Visit Storyteller Hero's Homepage Send Storyteller Hero a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Maybe the Laughing Hollow location remained the same and it was the river that moved...



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